Extremes in New Wildy

[ghjkl]

If my attack and strength levels together are over 150, then 99 range or mage will not affect my combat level at all, therefore no one can notice it unless they look it up on highscores like herblore.

It doesn't matter if it is a combat skill or not, all that matters is that it is not shown in the combat level, and people cannot tell based on combat level whether you have an advantage or not.

[Crossed_Body]

and magic and range are COMBAT SKILLS, whether or not they are consistently shown in your cb level is irrelevant, they were meant to be trained for use in pvp

Nope.

[Nhs_Xc]

Horrible poll questions.

[Pay_Me]

Then dont answer.

[i_trollz_u]

Why is there not a "don't allow extreme's - there absolutely isn't any reason to"?

 

And last time i checked "there's no reason not to" was never a reason why you should do something. The whole pole is fundamentally flawed.

[Quyneax]

High-protect value items are not always risked. If you can teleport, you can use that before you reach 0 prayer, and not lose chaotics, or divine, or dfs, or even a torva plate. For high-wilderness fights, item risk is 100%.

 

Turmoil is never risked. Ice barrage is never risked. Vengeance is never risked. Yet they all add to an account's power, and are all allowed, and none are shown in someone's combat level (the required levels are, but without the quests done, that doesn't matter of course).

 

So why not extremes? Because they push some things over the edge? Turmoil does the same thing. Vengeance makes certain comboes suddenly viable. Ice barrage (&co) suddenly make magic viable.

[brunokiller]

High-protect value items are not always risked. If you can teleport, you can use that before you reach 0 prayer, and not lose chaotics, or divine, or dfs, or even a torva plate. For high-wilderness fights, item risk is 100%.

 

It is called 'getting KOed/smited'.

 

Turmoil is never risked. Ice barrage is never risked. Vengeance is never risked. Yet they all add to an account's power, and are all allowed, and none are shown in someone's combat level (the required levels are, but without the quests done, that doesn't matter of course).

 

Well they ARE shown in your combat level, everyone can do the required quests. I am making a pure right now, and 45->95 prayer is 6/7 combat levels.

 

So why not extremes? Because they push some things over the edge? Turmoil does the same thing. Vengeance makes certain comboes suddenly viable. Ice barrage (&co) suddenly make magic viable.

 

Oh look it's bad lets go make it even worse.

 

I have extremes/overloads. Do I think it'd be mad fun to 1hit people? Of course! Does that make it challenging/interesting/skillful? Of course not.

[Quyneax]

High-protect value items are not always risked. If you can teleport, you can use that before you reach 0 prayer, and not lose chaotics, or divine, or dfs, or even a torva plate. For high-wilderness fights, item risk is 100%.

 

It is called 'getting KOed/smited'.

 

Turmoil is never risked. Ice barrage is never risked. Vengeance is never risked. Yet they all add to an account's power, and are all allowed, and none are shown in someone's combat level (the required levels are, but without the quests done, that doesn't matter of course).

 

Well they ARE shown in your combat level, everyone can do the required quests. I am making a pure right now, and 45->95 prayer is 6/7 combat levels.

 

So why not extremes? Because they push some things over the edge? Turmoil does the same thing. Vengeance makes certain comboes suddenly viable. Ice barrage (&co) suddenly make magic viable.

 

Oh look it's bad lets go make it even worse.

1) You'd have to be at both low health and low prayer for something like that to work.

2) The quests are still not shown in your combat level. As such, they are equal to extremes and should all be banned.

3) Yes, let's. Or, if not, let's remove something else when we add extremes.

[Soma2035]

Oh look it's bad lets go make it even worse.

 

Then switch them.

 

99 Strength, Abyssal Whip, 117 Strength, Super Strength Potion, Turmoil yields a max hit of 474

99 Strength, Abyssal Whip, 117 Strength, Extreme Strength Potion, Piety yields a max hit of 467

 

In other words, Turmoil is contributing more to this than Extremes. It's easy to fix - make it so Turmoil doesn't leech strength from players, so it's essentially a weaker Piety. Prayer still benefits - you get more prayer per potion and more pray points to work with in the first place.

[brunokiller]

1) You'd have to be at both low health and low prayer for something like that to work.

 

People lost loads of whips, godswords...etc (that was more common without that nifty prayer indicator..) in the old wild. Why would it be any different?

Have you ever actually PKed? Regardless you risk your items.

 

2) The quests are still not shown in your combat level. As such, they are equal to extremes and should all be banned.

 

92 herblore takes 150m. Desert treasure+ prequests takes maybe 10 hours. Temple of senntisten+prequests takes max 20 hours (+ some quests you'd have done regardless). See the difference?

 

3) Yes, let's. Or, if not, let's remove something else when we add extremes.

 

Extremes just overpower everything for no obvious reason.

 

There is not any reason not to =/= reason to do.

 

Then switch them.

Turmoil is displayed in your combat level, while herblore potions are not. That's why turmoil is more balanced than herblore. I wouldn't even mind if turmoil was nerfed (though I'd be a bit mad because I already have 82 prayer on my pure).

[Soma2035]

Turmoil is displayed in your combat level, while herblore potions are not. That's why turmoil is more balanced than herblore. I wouldn't even mind if turmoil was nerfed (though I'd be a bit mad because I already have 82 prayer on my pure).

 

Wrong. Very wrong.

 

First of all, odd prayer levels are NEVER represented in combat. 96 Prayer and 98 Summoning make 138 CB (with maxed other stats), but 95 Prayer and 99 Summoning do not, because odd levels are simply dropped. In other words, CB-wise, it's impossible to tell if someone's 94 Prayer or 95 Prayer, because they'd have the same CB.

 

Second of all, quests are not represented in combat. One of my friends right now is on the verge of 95 Prayer, except he doesn't even have the smithing level for Devious Minds. Are you telling me Smithing is factored into your CB level now?

[Cheefoo]

Second of all, quests are not represented in combat. One of my friends right now is on the verge of 95 Prayer, except he doesn't even have the smithing level for Devious Minds. Are you telling me Smithing is factored into your CB level now?

 

He still need 95 prayer to use turmoil. If he needed only smithing levels, that would be another story. With herblore, and extreme potions, there's absolutely no way of telling before, during or after a fight if they were used.

[brainymidget]

I agree with them being banned jut for the high level herblorers. I feel like a lot of people would stat spy/highscores and see someone with high herblore and just refuse to fight em, even if the person said they weren't using them. A similar thing went on when piety was first introduced because most people didn't have high enough prayer and didn't like the disadvantage it gave them.

[brunokiller]

First of all, odd prayer levels are NEVER represented in combat. 96 Prayer and 98 Summoning make 138 CB (with maxed other stats), but 95 Prayer and 99 Summoning do not, because odd levels are simply dropped. In other words, CB-wise, it's impossible to tell if someone's 94 Prayer or 95 Prayer, because they'd have the same CB.

 

But 70-94 prayer is quite a difference (6 combat levels). THAT is why it is represented in your combat level.

 

Second of all, quests are not represented in combat. One of my friends right now is on the verge of 95 Prayer, except he doesn't even have the smithing level for Devious Minds. Are you telling me Smithing is factored into your CB level now?

Your friend is willing to fork over 200m for turmoil yet can't be assed to spend 2m to power 60/61 smithing in a few hours. 60/61 smithing is nothing.

[Quyneax]

92 herblore takes 150m. Desert treasure+ prequests takes maybe 10 hours. Temple of senntisten+prequests takes max 20 hours (+ some quests you'd have done regardless). See the difference?

 

Turmoil is displayed in your combat level, while herblore potions are not. That's why turmoil is more balanced than herblore. I wouldn't even mind if turmoil was nerfed (though I'd be a bit mad because I already have 82 prayer on my pure).

1) Claws take 25m. DDs takes 50k. See the difference?

 

2) No it isn't. 94/95 prayer is displayed, but the completion of the quest isn't.

[Soma2035]

Second of all, quests are not represented in combat. One of my friends right now is on the verge of 95 Prayer, except he doesn't even have the smithing level for Devious Minds. Are you telling me Smithing is factored into your CB level now?

 

He still need 95 prayer to use turmoil. If he needed only smithing levels, that would be another story. With herblore, and extreme potions, there's absolutely no way of telling before, during or after a fight if they were used.

 

Several things wrong with that.

 

1) Telling before and after the fight is easy. First of all, an Overload has a little tell-tale stream of 100s. Second of all, if he potted before the fight, a quick stat spy shows you their CB stats. Third of all, a hit higher than what's possible without extremes/overloads is an obvious giveaway.

 

2) 95 prayer is not shown in combat. 95 prayer will NEVER have an effect on your combat level over 94 prayer.

[brunokiller]

1) Claws take 25m. DDs takes 50k. See the difference?

Yes I do, Joe risks 25m while Johnny risks 50k.

 

2) No it isn't. 94/95 prayer is displayed, but the completion of the quest isn't.

I thought that the quest was quite easy to do apart from the 63 mining and 60 smithing requirement. The effort of doing the questing is negiglible to the prayer levelling itself.

[Cheefoo]

First of all, odd prayer levels are NEVER represented in combat. 96 Prayer and 98 Summoning make 138 CB (with maxed other stats), but 95 Prayer and 99 Summoning do not, because odd levels are simply dropped. In other words, CB-wise, it's impossible to tell if someone's 94 Prayer or 95 Prayer, because they'd have the same CB.

 

But 70-94 prayer is quite a difference (6 combat levels). THAT is why it is represented in your combat level.

 

It'd be nice if hitting certain prayer levels raises your combat level more, while others less. 96-99 prayer doesn't change much of anything. Maybe prayer has more of an affect on combat level when using curses. Likewise, magic could have more or less of an impact on combat levels depending on what spellbook you're using. The whole combat level system should really be revamped entirely. Magic and range hardly affect combat level, prayer give advantages at a strange pace, not just increasing in power directly proportional to your level, etc.

[Cheefoo]

Second of all, quests are not represented in combat. One of my friends right now is on the verge of 95 Prayer, except he doesn't even have the smithing level for Devious Minds. Are you telling me Smithing is factored into your CB level now?

 

He still need 95 prayer to use turmoil. If he needed only smithing levels, that would be another story. With herblore, and extreme potions, there's absolutely no way of telling before, during or after a fight if they were used.

 

Several things wrong with that.

 

1) Telling before and after the fight is easy. First of all, an Overload has a little tell-tale stream of 100s. Second of all, if he potted before the fight, a quick stat spy shows you their CB stats. Third of all, a hit higher than what's possible without extremes/overloads is an obvious giveaway.

 

2) 95 prayer is not shown in combat. 95 prayer will NEVER have an effect on your combat level over 94 prayer.

 

Not everyone would use overloads, extremes would work just fine. So everyone should carry around stat spy runes and stay on lunar magic? And are you really going to calculate the damage that they could deal with or without extreme boosts? Maybe they don't hit above non-extreme maxes, but they would still hit higher more often. Not to mention the attack and defence bonuses are much harder to notice.

 

"95 prayer will NEVER have an effect on your combat level over 94 prayer" I don't quite understand what you're trying to say there.

[Quyneax]

1) Claws take 25m. DDs takes 50k. See the difference?

Yes I do, Joe risks 25m while Johnny risks 50k.

 

2) No it isn't. 94/95 prayer is displayed, but the completion of the quest isn't.

I thought that the quest was quite easy to do apart from the 63 mining and 60 smithing requirement. The effort of doing the questing is negiglible to the prayer levelling itself.

1) So I assume it isn't isn't a problem of cost but rather one of risk, correct? In which case cheap, powerful items like Korasi's, dds, gmace/maul, rune crossbow/dbolts should be banned, right? A dbolt is cheaper than the herbs needed for an extreme set, and adds quite a lot of power/danger to the cheap crossbow.

 

2) How does that even matter? Obviously people get 95+ prayer for turmoil, but then again people get 94 magic for vengeance (that takes quite a long time), which you can't see either (and is very similar in quest needed, great potential to alter a fight etc.).

 

I'm not arguing that extremes are overpowered or underpowered. I'm just saying that it isn't very consistent to allow one thing but not the other. It seems like extremes got picked out at random, which doesn't seem fair.

 

A radical solution like increasing lp per con level to 12-13 would be far better imo. It could even apply only in the wilderness.

[brunokiller]

1) So I assume it isn't isn't a problem of cost but rather one of risk, correct? In which case cheap, powerful items like Korasi's, dds, gmace/maul, rune crossbow/dbolts should be banned, right? A dbolt is cheaper than the herbs needed for an extreme set, and adds quite a lot of power/danger to the cheap crossbow.

Yes, whether those (mainly pointing at Korasi) items are correctly priced is another story, but you do risk them. Dragon(e) bolts are consumables and can be negated ENTIRELY.

 

2) How does that even matter? Obviously people get 95+ prayer for turmoil, but then again people get 94 magic for vengeance (that takes quite a long time), which you can't see either (and is very similar in quest needed, great potential to alter a fight etc.).

Obviously magic and range levels are incorrectly displayed but the difference is that they are combat skills. If you have an account with low strength/attack, it IS displayed.

 

I'm not arguing that extremes are overpowered or underpowered. I'm just saying that it isn't very consistent to allow one thing but not the other. It seems like extremes got picked out at random, which doesn't seem fair.

It seems rather consistent to me. Herblore itself has nothing to do with combat ability.

 

 

A radical solution like increasing lp per con level to 12-13 would be far better imo. It could even apply only in the wilderness.

There are two options:

1. You add extremes/ovls and to cancel (lol) their increased damage you increase the amount of LP one hp level gives

 

2. Do nothing.

 

First option looks kind of stupid to say the least..

[i_trollz_u]

1) Claws take 25m. DDs takes 50k. See the difference?

Yes I do, Joe risks 25m while Johnny risks 50k.

 

2) No it isn't. 94/95 prayer is displayed, but the completion of the quest isn't.

I thought that the quest was quite easy to do apart from the 63 mining and 60 smithing requirement. The effort of doing the questing is negiglible to the prayer levelling itself.

1) So I assume it isn't isn't a problem of cost but rather one of risk, correct? In which case cheap, powerful items like Korasi's, dds, gmace/maul, rune crossbow/dbolts should be banned, right? A dbolt is cheaper than the herbs needed for an extreme set, and adds quite a lot of power/danger to the cheap crossbow.

 

2) How does that even matter? Obviously people get 95+ prayer for turmoil, but then again people get 94 magic for vengeance (that takes quite a long time), which you can't see either (and is very similar in quest needed, great potential to alter a fight etc.).

 

I'm not arguing that extremes are overpowered or underpowered. I'm just saying that it isn't very consistent to allow one thing but not the other. It seems like extremes got picked out at random, which doesn't seem fair.

 

A radical solution like increasing lp per con level to 12-13 would be far better imo. It could even apply only in the wilderness.

 

I really don't understand the problem with mage/range, you can see the lvls on mine and a lot of people's accounts. Sure it might not on a few people, but seriously what's impact to not being consistent? If pvp is worse after extremes get implemented than don't do it. Your alternative of no specs/turm is absolutely horrible and punishing those who already got it with useless CB lvls. I really don't think turm is that big a deal, 95/94 pray (as if this distinction matters) still adds a significant number of cb lvls that makes it advantageous but fair.

 

The potions have literally no drawback whatsover. Turmoil and chaotics don't guarantee you'll win against someone who doesn't. Not even korsai or claws. It's pretty much impossible to beat someone with ovl/brews if you don't have 96 herb. And seriously don't say "bring divine/torva".

 

I get you think it might not be consistent with other things, but you still haven't shown any benefits it would give to pvp content if it was allowed, and only risks degrading it. There's pretty good reason for singling out these potions for being banned.

[Quyneax]

1) So I assume it isn't isn't a problem of cost but rather one of risk, correct? In which case cheap, powerful items like Korasi's, dds, gmace/maul, rune crossbow/dbolts should be banned, right? A dbolt is cheaper than the herbs needed for an extreme set, and adds quite a lot of power/danger to the cheap crossbow.

Yes, whether those (mainly pointing at Korasi) items are correctly priced is another story, but you do risk them. Dragon(e) bolts are consumables and can be negated ENTIRELY.

 

2) How does that even matter? Obviously people get 95+ prayer for turmoil, but then again people get 94 magic for vengeance (that takes quite a long time), which you can't see either (and is very similar in quest needed, great potential to alter a fight etc.).

Obviously magic and range levels are incorrectly displayed but the difference is that they are combat skills. If you have an account with low strength/attack, it IS displayed.

 

I'm not arguing that extremes are overpowered or underpowered. I'm just saying that it isn't very consistent to allow one thing but not the other. It seems like extremes got picked out at random, which doesn't seem fair.

It seems rather consistent to me. Herblore itself has nothing to do with combat ability.

 

 

A radical solution like increasing lp per con level to 12-13 would be far better imo. It could even apply only in the wilderness.

There are two options:

1. You add extremes/ovls and to cancel (lol) their increased damage you increase the amount of LP one hp level gives

 

2. Do nothing.

 

First option looks kind of stupid to say the least..

1) You risk extreme potions. Not the level but you risk the potions (one overload ~= one dds). Also, extreme potions are consumables. I don't see how they are different to, say, Korasi's (besides being somewhat cheaper, you'll also use more (depending on your kill/death ratio I presume)). I'll agree that dbolts are tradeable and extremes are not, but Korasi's isn't. Neither is Zanik's crossbow (not sure how good it is tbh). However, the fact that something requires a level is equivalent to requiring a quest imo. If extremes required a quest to drink, would they be banned? (actually they require Druidic Ritual to be consumed :P)

 

2) Quests don't (only) require combat skills. Obviously the handcannon needs to be banned cause it requires firemaking to use. I don't have a fulll list, but it includes ghostly robes, many dragon items (scimitar included) etc. They all need to be banned as well IF you want all combat enhancers to depend on combat stats only. I don't.

 

3) Exactly because of extremes, herblore has something to do with combat abilty. Like quests. Quests have nothing to do with combat right? Well they do of course, loads of things we've mentioned.

 

4) You think it looks stupid, but I think it results in a pvp environment where people can use their account to the full extent. The options are different and 1. is more interesting. IMO.

 

Edit:

I get you think it might not be consistent with other things, but you still haven't shown any benefits it would give to pvp content if it was allowed, and only risks degrading it. There's pretty good reason for singling out these potions for being banned.

 

The benefit is consistency (which I like and some people might not care about, idk). Also, spec recovers make fights more interesting (imo). Since the problem is too high dps relative to max health, you can either drop dps or up health. I prefer the latter. Some people may not.

[magekillr]

What horrible poll choices. This poll is pointless, it's nothing more than a push-poll. You obviously aren't interested in actual discussion.

[Peronix]

If the issue is not being able to "see" it just slap an aura on the player when they're extreme'd like the Stone of Jas aura during that one fight.

 

In fact by all means, do that. That would look pretty badass.