Is the Zaryte Bow the best at anything?

[Dragonlordjl]

This thread got totally derailed.

 

 

OT though it seems there Zaryte bow is capable of being a Jack of all trades but a master of none. It has it's potential uses everywhere but as of now it doesn't shine anywhere.

That aptly describes this. The two best uses ATM seem to be DKs and TDs.

At DKS it is a pain in the ass to retrieve your bolts and nobody uses an accumulator there because prayer is your main limiting factor in trip length. Even then, it'd only really be useful in duos/trios, since the most efficient solo method is to ignore Prime entirely, letting Deflect Magic slowly kill him while you tank Supreme and safe-spot Rex.

 

For TDs, it could be useful when paired with a Maul, but a rapier + ddef is better than a maul if you are good at switching. Also, chances are if you are wealthy enough to afford the bow (right now, anyway... I still think it'll crash hard soon after Free Trade comes out), you have 99 summoning so it'd be much better to rely on the Titan for most of your ranged damage.

[Quyneax]

Actually in titan tding, you may want kxbow if you can time your specs well (no wasted specs). Also unicorn tding with maul/hc/uni is very close in efficiency to steel titan. That aside...

 

The jack-of-all-trades title is only relevant if you can get it and use it for cheap. At the moment, having handcannons, Karil's crossbow, rune/chaotic crossbow and knives/darts basically covers everything and there isn't a place in RS you would need such allround capacity. The only reason to get a zaryte bow would be that it's cheaper than having several weapons (which are all superior as well). Cheap enough that the reduces performance is worth it. With handcannons at 200k, Karil's at 500k and rune crossbows at a measly 10k, I don't see that happening.

[Logdotzip]

Actually in titan tding, you may want kxbow if you can time your specs well (no wasted specs). Also unicorn tding with maul/hc/uni is very close in efficiency to steel titan. That aside...

 

The jack-of-all-trades title is only relevant if you can get it and use it for cheap. At the moment, having handcannons, Karil's crossbow, rune/chaotic crossbow and knives/darts basically covers everything and there isn't a place in RS you would need such allround capacity. The only reason to get a zaryte bow would be that it's cheaper than having several weapons (which are all superior as well). Cheap enough that the reduces performance is worth it. With handcannons at 200k, Karil's at 500k and rune crossbows at a measly 10k, I don't see that happening.

 

Price shouldn't be a factor when determining how great an object is. Not everyone is going to train Range with the best bolts all the time. The price of the bow doesn't make it any less useful, just less available. But it will likely drop anyways after free trade.

[Quyneax]

Actually price determines cost, a bit. Risking a Zaryte bow will cost you (not likely, granted). Also having say, 60m less to merch with would definitely cost you. So yes, price is relevant IF you risk an item and/or merch. However someone who uses divine but doesn't merch, the cost of divine wouldn't be important.

 

Secondly, using a Zaryte bow at, say, dks with spinos attacking you, may very well degrade it faster (not sure how it works). That would be another aspect of cost. Using a rune crossbow with broads probably won't go over 100k/hr, Karil's crossbow would easily do 200k/hr if not 300k, whereas a handcannon is more like 500k+/hr.

[Kata_Phfract__the_slayer]

...so basically this entire thread is people confirming we have a ranged equivalent of the dragon plate body.

 

Epically useful... if it got added years before.

 

the least jagex could do is give it a spec.

[Articultural]

By your logic I should either always have a backup 200m to buy back my items, always welfare everywhere and never take anything good, or never go anywhere dangerous.

 

The risks of going somewhere dangerous is death and losing your items. At one point the high alch value on death actually worked because the best items were rune and the most you would die with is 50k. However, times have changed and the system should change as well.

 

Not at all, just that if you take 200M of items that aren't protected on death with you when you go to a dangerous place, you should understand that there is a potential risk of you losing them, and that it was your choice to bring them and therefore you cannot blame someone/something else for their loss.

[Dragonlordjl]

By your logic I should either always have a backup 200m to buy back my items, always welfare everywhere and never take anything good, or never go anywhere dangerous.

 

The risks of going somewhere dangerous is death and losing your items. At one point the high alch value on death actually worked because the best items were rune and the most you would die with is 50k. However, times have changed and the system should change as well.

 

Not at all, just that if you take 200M of items that aren't protected on death with you when you go to a dangerous place, you should understand that there is a potential risk of you losing them, and that it was your choice to bring them and therefore you cannot blame someone/something else for their loss.

That's still a [cabbage] cop-out by Jagex. You shouldn't lose months of work because of bad weather or Jagex's [cabbage]ty servers.

[SirIzenhime]

By your logic I should either always have a backup 200m to buy back my items, always welfare everywhere and never take anything good, or never go anywhere dangerous.

 

The risks of going somewhere dangerous is death and losing your items. At one point the high alch value on death actually worked because the best items were rune and the most you would die with is 50k. However, times have changed and the system should change as well.

 

Not at all, just that if you take 200M of items that aren't protected on death with you when you go to a dangerous place, you should understand that there is a potential risk of you losing them, and that it was your choice to bring them and therefore you cannot blame someone/something else for their loss.

That's still a [cabbage] cop-out by Jagex. You shouldn't lose months of work because of bad weather or Jagex's [cabbage]ty servers.

 

It's your fault if you play during a snow storm.

As for the server problems, I agree with that.

[Articultural]

By your logic I should either always have a backup 200m to buy back my items, always welfare everywhere and never take anything good, or never go anywhere dangerous.

 

The risks of going somewhere dangerous is death and losing your items. At one point the high alch value on death actually worked because the best items were rune and the most you would die with is 50k. However, times have changed and the system should change as well.

 

Not at all, just that if you take 200M of items that aren't protected on death with you when you go to a dangerous place, you should understand that there is a potential risk of you losing them, and that it was your choice to bring them and therefore you cannot blame someone/something else for their loss.

That's still a [cabbage] cop-out by Jagex. You shouldn't lose months of work because of bad weather or Jagex's [cabbage]ty servers.

 

The point isn't how you lose the items, it's that you were warned multiple times that the area was dangerous and not to take items you weren't prepared to lose. Yet, you still decided to take items you weren't prepared to lose as they would give you advantages in combat. Why you died is irrelevant, the point is that you knew you were risking them and it was your choice to bring them.

[Uzamak1]

The price of items on death was determined by Jagex in order to retain risk of item loss. If you could choose which items to keep, using items like Void or Armadyl would be a much safer process, resulting in prices of said items dropping and/or the prices of items dropped where they are used. The kept-on-death values make up a very intricate system, which could be extensively abused if Jagex were to enable us to keep whichever three/four items we choose. While they might have made some errors in judging the usefulness of certain items, it's nowhere near as anarchaic as it would be if players were left to control the protection value of their items.

 

Players manually choosing the items they want saved isn't the only choice here, they could also set up the system to be based on market prices so things like void would still have some risk attached to their use.

 

If it was based on the market price, it would cause even more problems as the items price on death could fluctate while you're using them, causing you to suddenly keep different items than you thought you would, mid-way through your PKing/boss/other dangerous activity trip.

 

It could even cause mass price fluctuations with sets of armour similar to Barrows, people PKing in Dharok's would just set the helm to protect causing its price to drop and prices of whatever is currently the cheapest to rise, the sheer potential damage it could cause to the price of commonly used items could result in economic turmoil.

 

Everything would stabilize eventually though, and I doubt it would cause long lasting economic harm.

 

Everything would stabilise eventually, but it could have drastic effects on profits made from places like Barrows or TDs in the short-term, which could heavily effect the profit rate of certain bosses, effecting their popularity. Eventually it could even push Jagex to intefer with the boss/bosses in question's drops, tweaking drop rates or adding additional drops, if the market was taking too long to stabilise.

 

While this isn't technically a problem, it could cause a massive shift in the rarity of higher end gear, causing it either to be too far out of reach for the average player to afford, or so cheap that it makes other gear redundant and Jagex is pressured into rushing out higher-levelled gear when the game isn't ready for it. Albeit extreme examples, they do expose some of the potential threats of giving players the ability to effectively muck around with the economy.

 

Despite that though, you are fully aware of what you are risking when you enter a dangerous area. The loss of your items in dangerous area, after you have been warned multiple times not to take items you aren't willing to lose, is the fault of no one/nothing but yourself.

 

Or the server, or your pc, or the weather, or a ddos attack; I do agree you should know the price of death but always blaming the dead isn't the best position to take.

 

I didn't mean that the death was the fault of the player, merely that (s)he should have known the risk. No matter how confident you are, you always have a chance of losing your items and you should always be prepared for that eventuality if it happens, rather than trying to shift the blame onto someone else. If I was PKing in a phat and disconnected and lost it, people would say it was my fault for risking such an expensive item in PvP, the same goes with any other item in any other dangerous activity.

 

Knowing what you risk isn't the main point, some1 ranging a boss with CCbow will lose the CCbow over the other items on them, while someone meleeing the same boss will keep their Maul/LS/Rapier... its not consistent and the ranger is at a disadvantage and will need to re-acquire the bow?

[green9090]

So just to be clear, Articultural, you're saying that the downside of chaotic weapons is that at any time while using them Jagex's servers can kick you out and lose you hours of work? Because that is stupid.

[Wkw]

No, they are saying.. why should chaotic rapier protect over items A B and C, but chaotic crossbow won't protect over items A B and C.

Both rapier and crossbow require the same amount of effort. They cost the same in tokens, yet one will not protect.

[Articultural]

So just to be clear, Articultural, you're saying that the downside of chaotic weapons is that at any time while using them Jagex's servers can kick you out and lose you hours of work? Because that is stupid.

 

No, I'm saying that you should be prepared to risk losing your chaotic if you want to bring 3 items that protect over it. Dying can be unavoidable and it's likely that everyone, if they keep bossing, will die eventually, so plan your gear accordingly and don't risk items that you're not prepared to have a chance at losing.

[Crossed_Body]

Buying Zaryte bow 1m. :D

[green9090]

So just to be clear, Articultural, you're saying that the downside of chaotic weapons is that at any time while using them Jagex's servers can kick you out and lose you hours of work? Because that is stupid.

 

No, I'm saying that you should be prepared to risk losing your chaotic if you want to bring 3 items that protect over it. Dying can be unavoidable and it's likely that everyone, if they keep bossing, will die eventually, so plan your gear accordingly and don't risk items that you're not prepared to have a chance at losing.

Chaotic protect values are designed such that this is basically impossible, especially for the crossbow. You would know this if you owned chaotics. So yes, you are saying that to use chaotics, you are rolling the dice hoping that Jagex isn't going to kick you off the server and take it from you, which I feel is an unreasonable game mechanic. Losing money, sure, because I'm making a lot of it doing what I'm doing, but losing a chaotic is a huge time sink, so losing it over something that is in no way my fault is a slap in the face.

[Soma2035]

So just to be clear, Articultural, you're saying that the downside of chaotic weapons is that at any time while using them Jagex's servers can kick you out and lose you hours of work? Because that is stupid.

 

No, I'm saying that you should be prepared to risk losing your chaotic if you want to bring 3 items that protect over it. Dying can be unavoidable and it's likely that everyone, if they keep bossing, will die eventually, so plan your gear accordingly and don't risk items that you're not prepared to have a chance at losing.

Chaotic protect values are designed such that this is basically impossible, especially for the crossbow. You would know this if you owned chaotics. So yes, you are saying that to use chaotics, you are rolling the dice hoping that Jagex isn't going to kick you off the server and take it from you, which I feel is an unreasonable game mechanic. Losing money, sure, because I'm making a lot of it doing what I'm doing, but losing a chaotic is a huge time sink, so losing it over something that is in no way my fault is a slap in the face.

 

Are you running around in Rune / Proselyte all the time? Because whenever I'm in serious combat gear, my Rapier is being risked.

[SirIzenhime]

So just to be clear, Articultural, you're saying that the downside of chaotic weapons is that at any time while using them Jagex's servers can kick you out and lose you hours of work? Because that is stupid.

 

No, I'm saying that you should be prepared to risk losing your chaotic if you want to bring 3 items that protect over it. Dying can be unavoidable and it's likely that everyone, if they keep bossing, will die eventually, so plan your gear accordingly and don't risk items that you're not prepared to have a chance at losing.

Chaotic protect values are designed such that this is basically impossible, especially for the crossbow. You would know this if you owned chaotics. So yes, you are saying that to use chaotics, you are rolling the dice hoping that Jagex isn't going to kick you off the server and take it from you, which I feel is an unreasonable game mechanic. Losing money, sure, because I'm making a lot of it doing what I'm doing, but losing a chaotic is a huge time sink, so losing it over something that is in no way my fault is a slap in the face.

 

Are you running around in Rune / Proselyte all the time? Because whenever I'm in serious combat gear, my Rapier is being risked.

 

same with my shields

[Dragonlordjl]

So just to be clear, Articultural, you're saying that the downside of chaotic weapons is that at any time while using them Jagex's servers can kick you out and lose you hours of work? Because that is stupid.

 

No, I'm saying that you should be prepared to risk losing your chaotic if you want to bring 3 items that protect over it. Dying can be unavoidable and it's likely that everyone, if they keep bossing, will die eventually, so plan your gear accordingly and don't risk items that you're not prepared to have a chance at losing.

Obviously you do not own a crossbow. It has a ridiculously low protect value, so low that just about anything decent you wear will protect over it. It's [cabbage] that you have to wear what is considered to be welfare not to risk it. Just to put things into perspective, Karil's Top protects over it. And you lose Karil's top in just about any situation.

[bedman]

How much is zaryte bow now in FT?

[Soma2035]

So just to be clear, Articultural, you're saying that the downside of chaotic weapons is that at any time while using them Jagex's servers can kick you out and lose you hours of work? Because that is stupid.

 

No, I'm saying that you should be prepared to risk losing your chaotic if you want to bring 3 items that protect over it. Dying can be unavoidable and it's likely that everyone, if they keep bossing, will die eventually, so plan your gear accordingly and don't risk items that you're not prepared to have a chance at losing.

Obviously you do not own a crossbow. It has a ridiculously low protect value, so low that just about anything decent you wear will protect over it. It's [cabbage] that you have to wear what is considered to be welfare not to risk it. Just to put things into perspective, Karil's Top protects over it. And you lose Karil's top in just about any situation.

 

So any good ranged armor protects over your Chaotic Ranged weapon, and any good melee armor (Torva, Bandos, Verac's, Divine, Elysian) protects over Chaotic Melee weapons. Heck, other melee weapons are protecting over them. Dragon Claws comes to mind.

[Logdotzip]

I saw one sold for about 520, so I'm guessing that general area.

[Crossed_Body]

I saw one sold for about 520, so I'm guessing that general area.

520k? Because for 520m, somebody got scammed.

[green9090]

I saw one sold for about 520, so I'm guessing that general area.

520k? Because for 520m, somebody got scammed.

Think of how much he'll save on rune bolts!

[Articultural]

I have every single chaotic item, I just am happy to risk them as I know I can get them back extremely easily. I'm not saying you shouldn't risk them, just that if you do then you shouldn't be surprised if you happen to lose them, you knew you were taking the risk when you brought your chaotic item(s) with you.