Omar Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Admittedly, this should be in MM&T but it'll get more traffic here, not sure where to put it really. Can an artist whose music is largely downloaded illegally keep on relying on his creation as a livelihood? From what little I know, I would think their income is dependent on shows, but labels are attempting to make up the losses of piracy by leeching the gig profits (ticket prices have risen in ways which aren't consistent with inflation). I need to know this for a school project, but I'm also curious about this because I'd like to be able to make music without starving. Matt: You want that eh? You want everything good for you. You want everything that's--falls off garbage can Camera guy: Whoa, haha, are you okay dude? Matt: You want anything funny that happens, don't you? Camera guy: still laughing Matt: You want the funny shit that happens here and there, you think it comes out of your [bleep]ing [wagon] pushes garbage can down, don't you? You think it's funny? It comes out of here! running towards Camera guy Camera guy: runs away still laughing Matt: You think the funny comes out of your mother[bleep]ing creativity? Comes out of Satan, mother[bleep]er! nn--ngh! pushes Camera guy down Camera guy: Hoooholy [bleep]! Matt: FUNNY ISN'T REAL! FUNNY ISN'T REAL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldJoe Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Well, people who support illegal downloads always claim they are right to do this because labels nick most of the profit from each album copy. However, they forget that bands make money from the tours and merch. And here lies the funny thing, if artists aren't selling, labels will hesitate to fund a tour for the band. It costs and incredible amount to go on tour, and if the albums aren't selling, how would you justify it? It also depends on what type of music you are talking about, i can without backing up with any facts, claim that metal music has suffered less than the rest of music genres because the fans are incredible loyal. I would say that, if you are illegally downloading, download from bands such as Maiden, Metallica (watch out for Lars!) but try to buy the album from a band like Opeth. And what you are saying about ticket prices are true, i've seen some normal half crappy seating tickets go for 100€ each, and that's too much. I have my personal limit set on 40€, however, the smaller bands of my music taste are often priced at around 25€, which is a good price i think. J'adore aussi le sexe et les snuff moviesJe trouve que ce sont des purs moments de vieJe ne me reconnais plus dans les gensJe suis juste un cas désespérantEt comme personne ne viendra me réclamerJe terminerai comme un objet retrouvé Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorcheddd Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I was under the influence that they made more money from playing shows and touring than actual record sales, the actual artists that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevepole Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 These days most artist make their money from touring, that's why artist like Jay-Z is required to do a certain number of tours on his current contract with Live Nation because that's where the money is made (He's required to put out 3 albums/ 3 tours). And Live Nation itself is not a typical label as it's a Concert promoter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldJoe Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Well, people who support illegal downloads always claim they are right to do this because labels nick most of the profit from each album copy. However, they forget that bands make money from the tours and merch. And here lies the funny thing, if artists aren't selling, labels will hesitate to fund a tour for the band. It costs and incredible amount to go on tour, and if the albums aren't selling, how would you justify it? It also depends on what type of music you are talking about, i can without backing up with any facts, claim that metal music has suffered less than the rest of music genres because the fans are incredible loyal. I would say that, if you are illegally downloading, download from bands such as Maiden, Metallica (watch out for Lars!) but try to buy the album from a band like Opeth. And what you are saying about ticket prices are true, i've seen some normal half crappy seating tickets go for 100 each, and that's too much. I have my personal limit set on 40, however, the smaller bands of my music taste are often priced at around 25, which is a good price i think.You can't associate increased ticket sales with decreased album sales for the same reason that you said - there wouldn't be tours if the albums didn't sell, so obviously the albums are still selling enough for the labels to make a decent (read: ridiculously huge) profit. The reason ticket prices go up is because of a) greed and b) people being willing to pay.I'm not gonna lie and say that illegal torrenting decreases the interest in music. But, one have to wonder what will happen if sales on internet and physical copies continues to decrease and what action the label would take. That's why i'm saying it's a risky business continuing to download illegally and think that it won't change labels financing for tours. But at the same time it's partly their fault, the companies, for not acting quick enough with the internet. The should have put out well functioning online music stores almost a decade a go. J'adore aussi le sexe et les snuff moviesJe trouve que ce sont des purs moments de vieJe ne me reconnais plus dans les gensJe suis juste un cas désespérantEt comme personne ne viendra me réclamerJe terminerai comme un objet retrouvé Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omar Posted February 5, 2011 Author Share Posted February 5, 2011 What about independent labels? Their artists tend to support downloading as it spreads their music, but at this rate no one will end up buying anything at all, right?@Scorched: Yeah, I was under the influence too. Matt: You want that eh? You want everything good for you. You want everything that's--falls off garbage can Camera guy: Whoa, haha, are you okay dude? Matt: You want anything funny that happens, don't you? Camera guy: still laughing Matt: You want the funny shit that happens here and there, you think it comes out of your [bleep]ing [wagon] pushes garbage can down, don't you? You think it's funny? It comes out of here! running towards Camera guy Camera guy: runs away still laughing Matt: You think the funny comes out of your mother[bleep]ing creativity? Comes out of Satan, mother[bleep]er! nn--ngh! pushes Camera guy down Camera guy: Hoooholy [bleep]! Matt: FUNNY ISN'T REAL! FUNNY ISN'T REAL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Range_This11 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I think piracy has helped music. I do not think it has helped the music industry. There are hundreds of bands that, without piracy and the internet, would have gone pretty much unnoticed. I pirate almost all my music. I justify it by going to a show any time a band that I enjoy comes to town and if I really like them, I'll buy an overpriced tour t-shirt. "He could climb to it, if he climbed alone, and once there he could suck on the pap of life, gulp down the incomparable milk of wonder." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 The way I see it, if everyone had to pay $.99 for every song they wanted to listen to, nobody would be able to afford to listen to a variety of music. I have 1000 songs on my Itunes, which I wouldn't be able to have if I had to pay a dollar per song. The downloading helps artists get listeners, who will then come and pay to see them live. Just my opinion, it might be flawed slightly, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevepole Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 As far as myself goes I try to buy as much as I download, I use piracy as a way to sample music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginger_Warrior Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I have 1300 songs and I bought every one of them, apart from those which were free downloads anyway. I've not earned more than a student income my whole life. So the 'I can't afford it because it's £0.79 each' argument really is BS. | Favourite Game Music | Last.fm | HYT Friend Chat Rules | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstain Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 heh"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench,a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free,and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omar Posted February 5, 2011 Author Share Posted February 5, 2011 I have 1300 songs and I bought every one of them, apart from those which were free downloads anyway. I've not earned more than a student income my whole life. So the 'I can't afford it because it's £0.79 each' argument really is BS.It has nothing to do with affording it, I've only surveyed 30 people so far but of all of those who said they downloaded most of their music and thought music was too expensive, few said they'd buy music if it was cheaper. People believe they have a right to music. Matt: You want that eh? You want everything good for you. You want everything that's--falls off garbage can Camera guy: Whoa, haha, are you okay dude? Matt: You want anything funny that happens, don't you? Camera guy: still laughing Matt: You want the funny shit that happens here and there, you think it comes out of your [bleep]ing [wagon] pushes garbage can down, don't you? You think it's funny? It comes out of here! running towards Camera guy Camera guy: runs away still laughing Matt: You think the funny comes out of your mother[bleep]ing creativity? Comes out of Satan, mother[bleep]er! nn--ngh! pushes Camera guy down Camera guy: Hoooholy [bleep]! Matt: FUNNY ISN'T REAL! FUNNY ISN'T REAL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstain Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Trent Reznor kind of ownsYou're a bit of a computer geek. You must have been there, too? Oh, I understand that -- I steal music too, I'm not gonna say I don't. But it's tough not to resent people for doing it when you're the guy making the music, that would like to reap a benefit from that. On the other hand, you got record labels that are doing everything they can to piss people off and rip them off. I created a little issue down here because the first thing I did when I got to Sydney is I walk into HMV, the week the record's out, and I see it on the rack with a bunch of other releases. And every release I see: $21.99, $22.99, $24.99. And ours doesn't have a sticker on it. I look close and 'Oh, it's $34.99'. So I walk over to see our live DVD Beside You in Time, and I see that it's also priced six, seven, eight dollars more than every other disc on there. And I can't figure out why that would be. Did you have a word to anyone? Well, in Brisbane I end up meeting and greeting some record label people, who are pleasant enough, and one of them is a sales guy, so I say "Why is this the case?" He goes "Because your packaging is a lot more expensive". I know how much the packaging costs -- it costs me, not them, it costs me 83 cents more to have a CD with the colour-changing ink on it. I'm taking the hit on that, not them. So I said "Well, it doesn't cost $10 more". "Ah, well, you're right, it doesn't. Basically it's because we know you've got a core audience that's gonna buy whatever we put out, so we can charge more for that. It's the pop stuff we have to discount to get people to buy it. True fans will pay whatever". And I just said "That's the most insulting thing I've heard. I've garnered a core audience that you feel it's OK to rip off? F--- you'. That's also why you don't see any label people here, 'cos I said 'F--- you people. Stay out of my f---ing show. If you wanna come, pay the ticket like anyone else. F--- you guys". They're thieves. I don't blame people for stealing music if this is the kind of s--- that they pull off. Where does that extra $10 on your album go? That money's not going into my pocket, I can promise you that. It's just these guys who have f---ed themselves out of a job essentially, that now take it out on ripping off the public. I've got a battle where I'm trying to put out quality material that matters and I've got fans that feel it's their right to steal it and I've got a company that's so bureaucratic and clumsy and ignorant and behind the times they don't know what to do, so they rip the people off. Given all that, do you have any idea how to approach the release of your next album? I've have one record left that I owe a major label, then I will never be seen in a situation like this again. If I could do what I want right now, I would put out my next album, you could download it from my site at as high a bit-rate as you want, pay $4 through PayPal. Come see the show and buy a T-shirt if you like it. I would put out a nicely packaged merchandise piece, if you want to own a physical thing. And it would come out the day that it's done in the studio, not this "Let's wait three months" bulls---. When your US label, Interscope, discovered the web-based alternate reality game (ARG) you'd built around Year Zero, were they happy for the free marketing or angry you hadn't let them in on it? I chose to do this on my own, at great financial expense to myself, because I knew they wouldn't understand what it is, for one. And secondly, I didn't want it coming from a place of marketing, I wanted it coming from a place that was pure to the project. It's a way to present the story and the backdrop, something I would be excited to find as a fan. I knew the minute I talked to someone at the record label about it, they would be looking at it in terms of "How can we tie this in with a mobile provider?" That's what they do. If something lent itself to that, OK, I'm not opposed to the idea of not losing a lot of money (laughs). But it would only be if it made sense. I've had to position myself as the irrational, stubborn, crazy artist. At the end of the day, I'm not out to sabotage my career, but quality matters, and integrity matters. Jumping through any hoop or taking advantage of any desperate situation that comes up just to sell a product is harmful. It is. Is the Year Zero ARG something labels will copy now? Well, their response, when they saw that it did catch on like wildfire, was "Look how smart we are the way we marketed this record". That's the feedback I've gotten -- other artists who've met with that label ask 'em about it: "Yeah, you like what we did for Trent? Look what we did for Trent". They've then gone on to try to buy the company that did it to apply it to all their other acts. So, glad I could help them out. I'm sure they still don't understand what it is that we did or why it worked. But I will look forward to the Black Eyed Peas ARG, that should be amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I have 1300 songs and I bought every one of them, apart from those which were free downloads anyway. I've not earned more than a student income my whole life. So the 'I can't afford it because it's £0.79 each' argument really is BS.Most teenagers can't get a job, at least where I live anyways. So a fair bit of people really can't afford it, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Range_This11 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I have 1300 songs and I bought every one of them, apart from those which were free downloads anyway. I've not earned more than a student income my whole life. So the 'I can't afford it because it's £0.79 each' argument really is BS.Everyone has different expenses throughout their life. You chose to pay that much money for songs, other people may have taken that money and put it towards student loans, tuition, rent, car insurance, cell phone, etc. I'm glad you feel good about yourself that you paid for all your music, but don't project that narrative onto everyone else, because that really is the BS. "He could climb to it, if he climbed alone, and once there he could suck on the pap of life, gulp down the incomparable milk of wonder." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastortoise Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 As a newly appointed scientist I say SUCK IT to all the artists who can't makes ends meat because of illegal downloads. Scientists willingly publish their results and upload all their data they've spent months, years or decades acquiring to public domains for anybody who could find it useful. We spend years and years in academics just to contribute to the advancement of science for the benefit of society, and are also underpaid/underfed.... but do we complain? No, because we're smart enough to realize that we are doing something we love and that's what truly matters. So if artists find it unfair that they aren't making enough money for what they do, I honestly have no more sympathy for them (suck it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omar Posted February 5, 2011 Author Share Posted February 5, 2011 That would cause a decrease in both quality and quantity of music put out. I don't know if you spend money to access your lab, but musicians have to invest in (or buy in the case of those who don't make any money) often expensive equipment to create, especially if they don't want to stick to one genre. Matt: You want that eh? You want everything good for you. You want everything that's--falls off garbage can Camera guy: Whoa, haha, are you okay dude? Matt: You want anything funny that happens, don't you? Camera guy: still laughing Matt: You want the funny shit that happens here and there, you think it comes out of your [bleep]ing [wagon] pushes garbage can down, don't you? You think it's funny? It comes out of here! running towards Camera guy Camera guy: runs away still laughing Matt: You think the funny comes out of your mother[bleep]ing creativity? Comes out of Satan, mother[bleep]er! nn--ngh! pushes Camera guy down Camera guy: Hoooholy [bleep]! Matt: FUNNY ISN'T REAL! FUNNY ISN'T REAL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I'm not sure where I stand on this. I really don't think it's such a large problem that the industry/labels make it out to be. A large majority of my collection is CD's I've borrowed from the library, borrowed off relatives/friends, and a fair few albums that I've bought. 2257AD.TUMBLR.COM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzle229 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I have never payed for a song and never will. The people that deserve to make money on something are the artists. Artists end up getting their name out there BECAUSE of pirated files that people otherwise wouldn't pay for. Publishers deserve only a small fraction of that, and they take WAY more than they deserve. Get back here so I can rub your butt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulxai Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Not going to lie, like most people, I pirate my music as well. Corey Taylor said in an interview that he doesn't blame people for pirating music since music now is [cabbage]. If artists put out quality work, people would pay for it. ~ Proud Father ~ Proud (Currently Deployed) Army National Guardsmen ~ Proud Lakota ~ Retired Tip.It Crew ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diesel Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 A large majority of my collection is CD's I've borrowed from the library, borrowed off relatives/friends, and a fair few albums that I've bought. I'm the exact same way. A lot of the artists that I've come to love were discovered at my local library for free, but I ended up buying their other albums later on, so they still gained from me. Typically, if I'm going to pirate music, I make sure that they're already fairly mainstream and well known. I always support smaller bands by purchasing physical copies. Last.Fm My Bloggy Proud to have served on Tip.it Crew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Especially myself living in a town such as Glastonbury (which annually holds one of the biggest music festivals in the world), I think it's important that people share music just like they do at the festival, but if they really like it, they should pay for music. 2257AD.TUMBLR.COM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiny Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 If I had the opportunity to directly pay every single dime of my money to the artists I would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Runar Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I also pirate all my music. It's not that I don't want to pay, but I have pretty much no way of getting the music I like other than pirating. The bands I listen to are almost unknown - Dark Moor, Derdian, Fairyland, Gamma Ray, Rhapsody of Fire, Skyclad etc. I'm pretty sure that most stores in Finland don't sell their music, and I have no access to a credit card, so I can't buy anything from Amazon or such. Even if there was a way for me to get my music legally, it's just too hard for me to bother. Pirating is easy, why can't buying be? The Runar's (OSRS) DIY blog - most viewed Blogscape blog ever! Contract? /人◕ ‿‿ ◕人\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Pirating is easy, why can't buying be? That's what it all boils down to. 2257AD.TUMBLR.COM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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