Retech Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 1. The reason that I didn't put natural on there because I don't think that it really exists as a separate thing. I didn't misread or forget.2. Rogue trader is planned tomorrow as well. Master of your domain? I am Lord of the manor, Queen of the castle, King of the county! Former moderator of the original DungeoneeringFormer moderator of Ye Olde HegemonyModerator of the remake of DungeoneeringFormer Empress of the Lichten Empire (Hegemony)Former President of the United States (Hegemony)Former Emporer of Imperial Japan (Hegemony)Czarina Catherine of Imperial Russia (Hegemony The only difference between a disagreement between friends, an argument between strangers, and a feud between enemies is the ability to reconcile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexaduro Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 WHAT THE [bleep]. WHY. @Retech: Some magical effects (such as the barkskin spell) grant an enhancement bonus to the creature's existing natural armor bonus, which has the effect of increasing the natural armor's overall bonus to Armor Class. A natural armor bonus doesn't apply against touch attacks. 10:53 PM - retech9691: I feel the need10:53 PM - retech9691: To include many chasms in my story arc10:53 PM - Resistance: You mean plotholes? Remember, Remember, the 4th of NovemberRIP Dawngate ;-; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retech Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 That's just enhancement bonus? I don't see how there's any difference between that and anything else. The thing is that if we pretend that a breastplate's AC bonus is actually enhancement bonus, we could put on a second piece of armor (let's say, chainshirt) and the bonuses would stack, which isn't usually how it works. So it doesn't really work like that. In general, enhancement bonuses are more expensive or temporary, or sometimes both. Why did you want enhancement bonus instead of just regular? Master of your domain? I am Lord of the manor, Queen of the castle, King of the county! Former moderator of the original DungeoneeringFormer moderator of Ye Olde HegemonyModerator of the remake of DungeoneeringFormer Empress of the Lichten Empire (Hegemony)Former President of the United States (Hegemony)Former Emporer of Imperial Japan (Hegemony)Czarina Catherine of Imperial Russia (Hegemony The only difference between a disagreement between friends, an argument between strangers, and a feud between enemies is the ability to reconcile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexaduro Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 Yes, BUT I'M NOT GOING TO USE IT LIKE THAT. And it IS different than Armor Enhancement Bonus because it can only be applied to Natural Armor Bonuses, but stacks with them as well. I want it so I can get the Natural Armor Bonus of a Monk of the Sacred Mountain as well as my Changeling Natural Armor Bonus. But that's not what I'm worried about quite so much, I'd rather have a ruling on my Claws. 10:53 PM - retech9691: I feel the need10:53 PM - retech9691: To include many chasms in my story arc10:53 PM - Resistance: You mean plotholes? Remember, Remember, the 4th of NovemberRIP Dawngate ;-; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retech Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 Nex, those two stack. Natural armor bonuses from different sources stack with each other. Same as temporary HP and a lot of other things (but usually not enchantment bonuses, luck bonuses, etc). Master of your domain? I am Lord of the manor, Queen of the castle, King of the county! Former moderator of the original DungeoneeringFormer moderator of Ye Olde HegemonyModerator of the remake of DungeoneeringFormer Empress of the Lichten Empire (Hegemony)Former President of the United States (Hegemony)Former Emporer of Imperial Japan (Hegemony)Czarina Catherine of Imperial Russia (Hegemony The only difference between a disagreement between friends, an argument between strangers, and a feud between enemies is the ability to reconcile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvus Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 (edited) And could you explain said commandments of practical optimization? The Ten Commandments of Practical Optimization - if tl;dr, be sensible and dont abuse loopholes and errors or trick the DM into letting you abuse the rules. Why not just make a bunch of level 20 characters and do that, then, instead of using the same character with some minor changes? Trust me, this does not work very well unless you have a specified DM as other people will declare each other to be cheating (such as a time I made use of a technicality of the incorpreal combat rules to become essentially invincible[did you know that magic arrows fired from an unechanted bow can damage ghosts while non magical arrows from a magic bow cannot? also, monk unarmed strikes cant hit ghosts either] except against magic which I had crazy saves against, Which actually ended up being the least bit of the issue with the duel, which included such things as a Pixie[infinate greater invincibility and flight], a necromancer with increased undead control capacity and a bunch of necromancer followers with more zombies under their control while all the zombies exploded when they die, and an elf ranger that could fire 10 vorpal arrows [the arrows themselves were non magical] a turn that did in excess of 150 damage for each critical hit. amazingly I was the only one they overrode the rules on because it was unfair, despite the fact I made very clear about the distinction between the two more than clear before the battle, and I was the only one who did not use the crazy unfair 3.5 item discount rule abuse) You should be a bear riding bear summoning bear. Also, can I treat the Monk of the Sacred Mountain's Natural Armor bonus as a Natural Armor enhancement bonus? Depending on the use, in Terms of Armor class there is no such thing as a Natural Armor Enchancemnt bonus, However the Natural armor Bonus consists of 2 internal Stats: Natural armor(refered to as a Natural Armor Bonus) and Enhancement bonus (referenced as a Natural armor enhancement bonus), of which you may only Have one of each active at a time(the only exception is dodge bonuses which always stack if from different sources, and for record keeping purposes Enhancement bonuses which may stack with other enchancement bonuses as long as they are not applied to the same character statistic directly.).Therefore Monk of the Sacred Mountain's Natural Armor does not apply unless an effect were to negate only the Racial natural Armor bonus.Common Terms - Bonus(Natural Armor) Retech, NATURAL ARMOR ENHANCEMENT BONUS. There are many instances where natural armor is given a bonus that isn't a general Armor Enhancement Bonus. also, can I take Improved Natural Attack for Unarmed Strikes? It says Unarmed Strikes cannot recieve the bonus, but then Monks can take ANY bonus to unarmed strike qualifying as a Natural Attack. At this point I'm planning more on using my claws as tools, since Natural Attacks don't count as Unarmed Strikes but Unarmed Strikes count as Natural Attacks. I would ask the GM for a house ruling on the matter, since Claws are really nice flavour and don't have any significant difference from fist attacks. Anyways, since today is f'ing Rogue Trader and tomorrow I HAVE to go to a lunch-dinner-party thing I probably WON'T BE ABLE TO PLAY TOMORROW. Which is really annoying. I would still appreciate my quesitons being answered though. What on earth are you talking about with Improved Natural Attack? The rules Specifically state that Unarmed Strikes do not qualify (When I last posted on this question I assumed that Retech had actually read the Feat's rules before asking so I therefore did not look at it closely) (okay if you want to get technical, Monks of races without natural weapons can take the feat, but they cannot actually benefit from it.) This is because Unarmed Strikes are ALWAYS dealt using fists, elbows, etc. and it is a result of training that they qualify as a weapon as opposed to being a natural weapon in terms of what the improved natural attack feat works on. Yes, BUT I'M NOT GOING TO USE IT LIKE THAT. And it IS different than Armor Enhancement Bonus because it can only be applied to Natural Armor Bonuses, but stacks with them as well. I want it so I can get the Natural Armor Bonus of a Monk of the Sacred Mountain as well as my Changeling Natural Armor Bonus. As stated before They do not stack. EDIT:Nex, those two stack. Natural armor bonuses from different sources stack with each other. Same as temporary HP and a lot of other things (but usually not enchantment bonuses, luck bonuses, etc). What on Earth are you Talking about? Natural Armor bonuses do not stackOnly the following stack (do remeber that an effect cannot stack with itself):Circumstance bonuses that are not effectively the sameDodge bonusesEnhancement bonuses Applied to different thingsUntyped bonuses Edited April 23, 2011 by wyvren2000 Thanks to DrCue at DeviantArt for the signature source Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retech Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 Deferring to Wyvren on questions of rules. I am pretty sure that either improved natural attacks applied to unarmed strike or improved unarmed strike applied to natural attacks. I remember reading a WOTC or Paizo FAQ thing that said it worked, though I don't remember if that was from 3.5 or Pathfinder. Master of your domain? I am Lord of the manor, Queen of the castle, King of the county! Former moderator of the original DungeoneeringFormer moderator of Ye Olde HegemonyModerator of the remake of DungeoneeringFormer Empress of the Lichten Empire (Hegemony)Former President of the United States (Hegemony)Former Emporer of Imperial Japan (Hegemony)Czarina Catherine of Imperial Russia (Hegemony The only difference between a disagreement between friends, an argument between strangers, and a feud between enemies is the ability to reconcile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvus Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 Deferring to Wyvren on questions of rules. I am pretty sure that either improved natural attacks applied to unarmed strike or improved unarmed strike applied to natural attacks. I remember reading a WOTC or Paizo FAQ thing that said it worked, though I don't remember if that was from 3.5 or Pathfinder.in 3.5 the FAQs stated you can, however Pathfinder altered the Feat to directly to prohibit use in that way Thanks to DrCue at DeviantArt for the signature source Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retech Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 Ah right, okay. I'm talking about different natural armor bonuses. For example, animal companions receive a natural armor bonus based on their level. They also receive a separate natural armor bonus for just being a kind of animal. These bonuses definitely do stack. EDIT: Okay, nevermind. It explicitly states that on this natural armor bonus that it stacks with existing natural armor bonus. Carry on. :) Master of your domain? I am Lord of the manor, Queen of the castle, King of the county! Former moderator of the original DungeoneeringFormer moderator of Ye Olde HegemonyModerator of the remake of DungeoneeringFormer Empress of the Lichten Empire (Hegemony)Former President of the United States (Hegemony)Former Emporer of Imperial Japan (Hegemony)Czarina Catherine of Imperial Russia (Hegemony The only difference between a disagreement between friends, an argument between strangers, and a feud between enemies is the ability to reconcile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archimage_a Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 [hide] [/hide] 500 credit is open to anyone. No interest. http://www.uzzisoft..../archimage.jpegWell I knew you wouldn't agree. I know how you hate facing facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexaduro Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 ... But what's the ACTUAL difference between Unarmed and Natural? Really? Either way, looks like my claws have been reduced to rope cutters. So much for that fun concept. 10:53 PM - retech9691: I feel the need10:53 PM - retech9691: To include many chasms in my story arc10:53 PM - Resistance: You mean plotholes? Remember, Remember, the 4th of NovemberRIP Dawngate ;-; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retech Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 Hey Arch, where did you get that character sheet? Master of your domain? I am Lord of the manor, Queen of the castle, King of the county! Former moderator of the original DungeoneeringFormer moderator of Ye Olde HegemonyModerator of the remake of DungeoneeringFormer Empress of the Lichten Empire (Hegemony)Former President of the United States (Hegemony)Former Emporer of Imperial Japan (Hegemony)Czarina Catherine of Imperial Russia (Hegemony The only difference between a disagreement between friends, an argument between strangers, and a feud between enemies is the ability to reconcile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archimage_a Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/03_get_pcgen.php http://www.uzzisoft..../archimage.jpegWell I knew you wouldn't agree. I know how you hate facing facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earth Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 Hey, Grim, when's the session for this going to end up on? Monday, or somethin? Youtube account: Earthgragonsage; currently uploading not an effing thing.[hide=Memorable Crossroads Quotes.]Reigan: NO MOOSE CAN SAVE US NOW; ...Had that been taken out of context, it would have been comical... Right now, it's terrifying.[/hide] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexaduro Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 Okay, character change. This is going to make things interesting for the party. :rolleyes: 10:53 PM - retech9691: I feel the need10:53 PM - retech9691: To include many chasms in my story arc10:53 PM - Resistance: You mean plotholes? Remember, Remember, the 4th of NovemberRIP Dawngate ;-; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archimage_a Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 Can we please get a decent spell caster? Ross constantly firing stuff will get tedious...not to mention will eventually run out of prepapred weapons. http://www.uzzisoft..../archimage.jpegWell I knew you wouldn't agree. I know how you hate facing facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexaduro Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 Maybe. :-k Either way I'll have 3 levels of Monk before anything else, and will never take any more. 10:53 PM - retech9691: I feel the need10:53 PM - retech9691: To include many chasms in my story arc10:53 PM - Resistance: You mean plotholes? Remember, Remember, the 4th of NovemberRIP Dawngate ;-; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retech Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 I'm a full cleric, and those are full spell casters. :P Master of your domain? I am Lord of the manor, Queen of the castle, King of the county! Former moderator of the original DungeoneeringFormer moderator of Ye Olde HegemonyModerator of the remake of DungeoneeringFormer Empress of the Lichten Empire (Hegemony)Former President of the United States (Hegemony)Former Emporer of Imperial Japan (Hegemony)Czarina Catherine of Imperial Russia (Hegemony The only difference between a disagreement between friends, an argument between strangers, and a feud between enemies is the ability to reconcile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexaduro Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 Yeah but you do it badly Retech, you just use your Gorilla. Also, it's very possible that you would NOT want my character using spells. 10:53 PM - retech9691: I feel the need10:53 PM - retech9691: To include many chasms in my story arc10:53 PM - Resistance: You mean plotholes? Remember, Remember, the 4th of NovemberRIP Dawngate ;-; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retech Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 Yeah but you do it badly Retech, you just use your Gorilla. Also, it's very possible that you would NOT want my character using spells. The gorilla was only strong because I used buffs to give it some +6 to attack rolls and +9 to damage rolls. Of course, to prevent optimization overload, I am getting rid of my intelligent weapon and gorilla in favor of something more low key, so yeah. Casters aren't just boom boom boom, Nex. They reason why people think they are so good is because they can perform in combat, and have so many other spells to do lots of other stuff, like interrogate someone with waterboarding or something. Master of your domain? I am Lord of the manor, Queen of the castle, King of the county! Former moderator of the original DungeoneeringFormer moderator of Ye Olde HegemonyModerator of the remake of DungeoneeringFormer Empress of the Lichten Empire (Hegemony)Former President of the United States (Hegemony)Former Emporer of Imperial Japan (Hegemony)Czarina Catherine of Imperial Russia (Hegemony The only difference between a disagreement between friends, an argument between strangers, and a feud between enemies is the ability to reconcile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alg Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 Was planning to do sorcerer. Any ideas for spells? I painted some stuff and put it on tumblr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archimage_a Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 Just saying we need some balanced characters....Mask, Glitterdust! http://www.uzzisoft..../archimage.jpegWell I knew you wouldn't agree. I know how you hate facing facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim_ Posted April 24, 2011 Author Share Posted April 24, 2011 I just finished creating a wizard if anyone wants one ready made. Grease, enlarge person, bulls strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earth Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 Grim, whens the first session of our level 4 characters gonna be? Tommorow? Youtube account: Earthgragonsage; currently uploading not an effing thing.[hide=Memorable Crossroads Quotes.]Reigan: NO MOOSE CAN SAVE US NOW; ...Had that been taken out of context, it would have been comical... Right now, it's terrifying.[/hide] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alg Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 This right? CathranFemale Half-Elf Sorcerer 4 | [Neutral Good] DescriptionAge 21Height/Weight 5'0 tall, 100lbs. (Medium)Homeland ____________________Deity ____________________Campaign KingmakerRepresenting Mask Hit PointsHP 16 Strength 10 (+0) Dexterity 14 (+2)Constitution 10 (+0)Intelligence 14 (+2)Wisdom 14 (+2)Charisma 19 (+4) Initiative +2 = 2 [Dex] Action Points (Lifetime) 8SkillsSKILL Total + Ability Mod. + Ranks + Misc.Acrobatics* +2 = DEX 2+0+0Appraise +2 = INT 2+0+0Bluff +8 = CHA 4+1+3Climb* +0 = STR 0+0+0Craft +2 = INT 2+0+0Craft +2 = INT 2+0+0Craft +2 = INT 2+0+0Diplomacy +6 = CHA 4+2+0Disable Device*† +2 = DEX 2+0+0Disguise +5 = CHA 4+1+0Escape Artist* +2 = DEX 2+0+0Fly* +2 = DEX 2+0+0Handle Animal† +4 = CHA 4+0+0Heal +6 = WIS 2+4+0Intimidate +4 = CHA 4+0+0K (Arcana)† +6 = INT 2+1+3K (Dungeoneering)† +2 = INT 2+0+0K (Engineering)† +2 = INT 2+0+0K (Geography)† +3 = INT 2+1+0K (History)† +3 = INT 2+1+0K (Local)† +2 = INT 2+0+0K (Nature)† +3 = INT 2+1+0K (Nobility)† +2 = INT 2+0+0K (Planes)† +3 = INT 2+1+0K (Religion)† +3 = INT 2+1+0Linguistics† +2 = INT 2+0+0Perception +4 = WIS 2+0+0+2 [half-elf]Perform +4 = CHA 4+0+0Perform +4 = CHA 4+0+0Profession† +2 = WIS 2+0+0Profession† +2 = WIS 2+0+0Ride +2 = DEX 2+0+0Sense Motive +4 = WIS 2+2+0Sleight of Hand*† +3 = DEX 2+1+0Spellcraft† +2 = INT 2+0+0Stealth* +2 = DEX 2+0+0Survival +3 = WIS 2+1+0Swim* +0 = STR 0+0+0Use Magic Device† +4 = CHA 4+0+0 * Armor Check Penalty 0† Trained OnlyEquipment(- ~1000 for Nex) Quarterstaff (No cost listed)Darkwood Shortbow (50)20 Common Arrows (1)Explorer's Outfit (10)Compass (1)Disguise Kit (50)Healer's Kit (50)Cure light wounds wand (750)Belt of Incredible Dexterity (+2, 4000)88g NotesBase Speed [ 30 (6 sq.) ] AC [12] = 10 +2 [Dex]Touch AC [12] Flat-Footed [10] Base Attack Bonus +2Basic Melee Attack +2Basic Ranged Attack +4 Fortitude Save +1 = 1 [base] +0 [Con]Reflex Save +3 = 1 [base] +2 [Dex]Will Save +6 = 4 [base] +2 [Wis] CMB +2 = 2 [bAB] +0 [str] +0 CMD +14 = 2 [bAB] +0 [str] +2 [Dex] +0 + 10 FeatsMartial Weapon Proficiency (Shortbows)Pass for HumanEmpower Spell+ Eschew Materials, Cantrips TraitsQuick LearnerScholar of the Great BeyondCarrying CapacityLight Load: 33lbs.Medium Load: 66lbs.Heavy Load: 100lbs.Lift Over Head: 100lbs.Lift Off Ground: 200lbs.Push or Drag: 500lbs. LanguagesCommonElvenDraconicSylvan Sorcerer Spells Per DayLevel 1 6 + 1 [Cha]Level 2 3 + 1 [Cha] Sorcerer Spells KnownLevel 0 6Read MagicDancing LightsRay of FrostBleedPrestidigitationMendingLevel 1 3Summon Monster 1Enlarge PersonMage ArmorLevel 2 1GlitterdustSpecial AbilitiesHalf-ElfLow-Light VisionElf Blood: Half-elves count as both elves and humans for any racial effects.Elven Immunities: Immune to magic sleep. +2 to saves vs. enchantmentKeen Senses: +2 PerceptionMultitalented: Choose two favored classes [sorcerer and Rogue]. Sorcerer - Elemental Bloodline (Water)1 Bloodline Spells-Burning Hands 2 Bloodline Powers-Elemental Ray-Elemental Resistance Experience Points 0 I painted some stuff and put it on tumblr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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