Getting "Good Grades"

[das1330]

I see.

[Will H]

Also, I heard a great quote from a professor for mechanical engineering where most students barely pass each class. "It's not about making the A anymore, C's get degrees."

 

That's a fine quote that sums up my philosophy. I'd say it was unfortunate, but I couldn't care less about the state of the education system I've been through. I've learned what I needed to learn, I'm going to squeeze out as much benefit as I can for the least effort, and I'm not going to be the pushy parent my parents were.

 

 

I notice a common pattern, parents that didn't have the wide range of opportunities their children have put it upon themselves to have their children succeed, nearly by any means possible. They never say it, but they internally treat that success as if it's directly linked to their own success, instead of the child's. The child, initially naive, goes along with what their parents say, until they become independent enough to realise that they have no interest in a lot of what they are doing. After that, they reject the continued advice of the parent instead of looking up to them, cruising at their own pace, for better or worse.

 

I wonder what's going to be the story when the children have their own children.

[sees_all1]

You know what they call the person that graduates last in medical school?

 

[hide=answer]

Doctor.

[/hide]

[Myweponsg00d]

Also, I heard a great quote from a professor for mechanical engineering where most students barely pass each class. "It's not about making the A anymore, C's get degrees."

 

That's a fine quote that sums up my philosophy. I'd say it was unfortunate, but I couldn't care less about the state of the education system I've been through. I've learned what I needed to learn, I'm going to squeeze out as much benefit as I can for the least effort, and I'm not going to be the pushy parent my parents were.

 

 

I notice a common pattern, parents that didn't have the wide range of opportunities their children have put it upon themselves to have their children succeed, nearly by any means possible. They never say it, but they internally treat that success as if it's directly linked to their own success, instead of the child's. The child, initially naive, goes along with what their parents say, until they become independent enough to realise that they have no interest in a lot of what they are doing. After that, they reject the continued advice of the parent instead of looking up to them, cruising at their own pace, for better or worse.

 

I wonder what's going to be the story when the children have their own children.

 

I think what it is is that the parents just don't like the life they had due to a lack of opportunity. At least thats how my parents expressed it. They told me "I'm not saying you need to be a doctor, I'm not saying you can't be a garbage man. What I'm saying is that I want you to get good enough grades so that you can do whatever you want. The A student could be a garbage man. The F student couldn't be a doctor.

 

You know what they call the person that graduates last in medical school?

 

[hide=answer]

Doctor.

[/hide]

 

Graduate education is much different from undergrad education or even high school education. You can graduate from high school with a 2.0. If you make it to undergrad, and you still have a 2.0, theres not even a chance that you'd get into med school. There might be a "lowest" student in med school, but he probably would still have a 3.0 or higher. My masters program for example required me to maintain an 80 or higher in all classes.

[Zilla]

My parent's had a strict rule over me for most of my childhood, was a straight A student for all of Elementary essentially, Middle school came and my grades dropped. Junior year of Highschool and I'm trying to pick it back up again, Freshman and Sophomore I pretty much had Fs in most of my classes. I still have no idea how I lost that motivation.

[ElkNight]

I never cared about grades in middle school or elementary.

I don't really try that hard in any of my classes, and I dont really study.

Which will end up biting me in the ass later I think.

 

I can still manage a good gpa though, 3.9 something.

[Riku3220]

I think you're all forgetting the benefits of getting good grades. Scholarships and AP classes makes college easier, cheaper, and shorter. If working hard now makes life easier in the long run then why not take the couple extra steps? I know pretty much everyone on OT is capable of making high marks with little effort, so why would you settle for the option that takes more time and more money?

[Cup Lion]

What are your problems with physics? I have a degree in it and I am a physics teacher.

 

If you haven't accepted Cs in the past, theres no reason to accept them now.

 

Good grades alone aren't going to make you the best person in the world but they CAN give you an extra edge.

 

I got my test (that I took yesterday) back today. He told us its basically the hardest test in introductory physics. But that really didn't make me feel any better. What I find funny is that I was going over the problems in my head all yesterday and today, and I knew exactly how to do them. I actually started doing them on a scratch piece of paper before I got my test back. So, it's not like I don't know how to do the problems. We do online homework, and I finish it all with ease for the most part without asking for any help (I've gotten 100% on all the assignments so far). The daily quizzes in class make sense to me, and I get full credit a majority of the time.

 

I ended up getting a 42/100 on the test. He scaled it, though, but it wasn't much better. I got a 48% after the curve. Class average was 59%, the median was 55%. The test was over electric charge, electric fields, electric flux, gauss's law, electric potential and capacitors.

 

I think I may just be a bad test taker... only in my physics class. Heh. All my other classes are fine. Quite easy for the most part. Its this one class where I get all nervous and freeze up during the test.

 

Last semester, my exam grades were 86%, 64% (had the flu), 82%, 84%. I managed a 107% on the semester final, because he told the class the questions were going to be more in number but easier. So I relaxed a bit.

[Skull]

I personally just don't give a [bleep] about school. It doesn't interest me in the least, so I don't get great grades. I mean it's not like I'm dumb, I went in cold to the SAT's and came out with a 2060. I get high grades on every test too, I just cba to do homework and at this point I don't see any reason to start. I think my gpa is like a 3.0 so whatever.

[TrueBeaver]

Thread was tl;dr (read OP tho) so if anyone else has said this, oh well.

 

I can't say for you, but for me personally I prioritize social life above grades. I've never really studied and usually do papers late at night after I get back from drinking and usually do pretty well (3.6 high school GPA, 2000 on the SAT, 4 AP courses | 3.1 first semester of university (goddamn art class)) but obviously not everyone does. Personally I would rather do relatively poorly than be stressed out about being perfect, it's liberating to be carefree and alive.

[jasignhagj]

I was always that kid who got straight 90s up until grade 8, when I actually got friends and started having a life. I still have never gotten a grade under 70%, but my work ethic in high school is awful. I tend to ace tests, except for in math where I get 80s, but I never do homework. Right now I have 4 overdue assignments in English, and a solid 5/30, the 5 coming from a grammar quiz I got 100 on. On the other side, My Honours Chem mark is 99%, because we've only had in-class work and a test so far.

[Flyingjj]

Graduated top of my class in high school, no studying necessary. Something like a 4.24 GPA (AP classes)

 

College now, one of the top ranked schools in the US. Still get As and some Bs. (3.65 GPA) Still don't really study. If I wanted, I could study, and then I'd again have straight As easily. Instead, I prioritize relationships with people over studying nearly 100% of the time. People>Grades. Period.

[Myweponsg00d]

What are your problems with physics? I have a degree in it and I am a physics teacher.

 

If you haven't accepted Cs in the past, theres no reason to accept them now.

 

Good grades alone aren't going to make you the best person in the world but they CAN give you an extra edge.

 

I got my test (that I took yesterday) back today. He told us its basically the hardest test in introductory physics. But that really didn't make me feel any better. What I find funny is that I was going over the problems in my head all yesterday and today, and I knew exactly how to do them. I actually started doing them on a scratch piece of paper before I got my test back. So, it's not like I don't know how to do the problems. We do online homework, and I finish it all with ease for the most part without asking for any help (I've gotten 100% on all the assignments so far). The daily quizzes in class make sense to me, and I get full credit a majority of the time.

 

I ended up getting a 42/100 on the test. He scaled it, though, but it wasn't much better. I got a 48% after the curve. Class average was 59%, the median was 55%. The test was over electric charge, electric fields, electric flux, gauss's law, electric potential and capacitors.

 

I think I may just be a bad test taker... only in my physics class. Heh. All my other classes are fine. Quite easy for the most part. Its this one class where I get all nervous and freeze up during the test.

 

Last semester, my exam grades were 86%, 64% (had the flu), 82%, 84%. I managed a 107% on the semester final, because he told the class the questions were going to be more in number but easier. So I relaxed a bit.

 

 

It sounds like you have the same problem that many of my students do. My first advice is to give yourself "practice tests" with the homework problems, or with other problems from the book. Once you feel you've learned the material, pick a set of problems and try to solve them without using your book/notes (and whatever else you can't use on the exam). Physics is a type of class that is way different from most subjects. It is not enough to simply look over the homeworks and see if you understand the solutions. You MUST actually be sure that you are able to do independent problem solving.

 

The other bit of advice I will give you is to always write as much as you know about a problem if it is giving you trouble.

 

For example, if you see this problem on a test: "You fall off of a 6 meter tall roof and bend your knees as you land. While bending your knees, your center of mass moves a distance of 30 cm. If your mass is 80 kg, find the force that each leg experienced."

 

Now, physics is NOT a subject where you look at the problem and can say "I don't get this problem." Even if you looked at the above problem and had no idea how you are going to get to the final solution, you can probably still figure it out if you just write down absolutely everything you know about the problem.

 

So, for example, if I was totally stuck on that example, I would first write down stuff I know about energy. I would write down potential energy and kinetic energy. I would then write down F=ma, because I see the word "force" and I know I must find force. Well, then I also know that F=dp/dt, so I would write that down. After I get all this stuff written down, it seems that what I might have to do is find his velocity right before he hits the ground and find the time that it took him to stop. So I write down some equations that involve time. v^2=2ax and v=at. Now I would have all the stuff I need to solve a problem.

 

Physics is NOT a field where you are going to get to the exam and look at the problems and be able to instantly say "I can do this one" and "I can't do this one". You must approach each problem with a determination in solving the problem. Write down every equation you know that contains some of the important physical parameters of the problem. Draw a picture. Draw a free body diagram. Make sure that you are getting your hands dirty, or else you're not really doing physics. If you continue into upper level physics, this will be even more important. I remember in my statistical mechanics class we were actually asked to DERIVE FORMULAS on the test, for things we have never seen before.

 

Physics is probably the only class you have ever taken that is actually testing you understanding of information rather than your memorization of information.

 

Also, yes, the electricity and magnetism section of Physics 2 is really really difficult. You will be getting into optics and circuits later, though. These are probably the easiest things in physics if you have a good professor. Keep your chin up and stick with the field. It is very difficult. I got a C in physics 2, which devastated me...but then by my senior year I was making As in my upper level classes that were much much more difficult. You'll find your stride.

[magekillr]

Wait so are you in university now or not? That's the understanding I came to whilst reading your first post, and then some posters seemed to act as if you're still in high school. Anyway, I'm going to assume you're in university.

 

This is all too common. High school is relatively easy compared to college for one reason (in my opinion): the way your final grade is calculated changes drastically. In college it's usually 2-3 tests + a final = 80% or so of your grade, and all of the homework/quizzes add up to 20-30%. So you can do well on the homework, fail just one test (maybe you had a bad day), and suddenly you either need to ace every other test and final or you're stuck with a B or lower by default. High school this isn't the case.

 

About grades mattering, I'd say it's relative to your goals and major. For example if you're a political science major with a 3.0 and you're applying for law school...you're not going to get into the Tier 2 schools, let alone Tier 1. Yet there would be more forgiveness if you're an engineer who had the same GPA who's going into patent law. So GPA mostly matters if you're trying to go into higher education such as graduate/medical/law school. It also matters for internships, but I'll be honest, you're not going to have a good shot at an internship unless you know someone. I have almost never seen a person go to a career fair and walk away with an internship spot without having an "in." It's particularly why people talking about eliminating affirmative action grate me; since when is getting a job based on "merit" alone (w/e that means)? Also look at your class (you should get a class rank by fall of your 2nd year) to compare yourself. You could be doing well compared with everyone else and might not even know it. Another problem with GPA is that it's relative to other schools, and a lot of Ivy Leagues have serious problems with grade inflation.

 

If you're an engineer a lower GPA can be more forgiving if you're applying for graduate school. I'd say with a 3.0 GPA and some undergraduate research you could get into some decent graduate engineering program; not MIT or Georgia Tech, but hey. Personally I think too much weight is put onto GPA, and this affects learning. I've gotten a good deal amount of C's in undergrad, and usually those were the classes that I learned the most. Statics comes to mind (not statistics). Failed the first test with a 40%...aced everything else, did decent on the homework...came out with a C+. I probably know more statics than someone who got an A, though.

 

I can't speak for graduate students, but almost everyone who I know that went straight into the workforce out of undergrad said their biggest regret was the stock they put into their GPA's. So as long as you're doing the best you can, I can't really say you're doing anything wrong. And follow Myweaponsg00d's advice. I'm not a physics teacher, but I am a graduate aerospace engineer (which is pretty much just physics and math).

[Giordano]

Personally, I hate the idea of "letter grades". In my opinion, classes should be rated as pass/fail. In college, I'd rather learn the material that I'll use later on in life and make a C in the class instead of making and A yet not learning a thing.

 

As for my grades through life, I'm probably rated as a C+ student at this time. Doesn't bother me though, I'm content with the amount that I'm learning. Also, I heard a great quote from a professor for mechanical engineering where most students barely pass each class. "It's not about making the A anymore, C's get degrees."

Well it is based on a pass or fail. You have to pass to get a degree/move on to the next grade/recieve credits. Its usually 60% is the defining point of pass or fail (though in my college its a 70). Letter grades are just something some early 1900s professors thought would be a nice analysis of your 'hard work'.

[Shiny]

Of all those people who were "gifted" in primary/elementary school, then lost it, I was that person who was the other way around. In what you Americans would call elementary, I joked around, did the work, and generally was well educated and intelligent. I had a problem with being arrogant and obnoxious, and would often speak out against the teachers. Within the later years, of about grade 7, I began to apply myself. I sat tests for extension courses both years at intermediate (what we call grade 6-7) but got denied. I took external tests and did incredibly well in them (we're looking at A+). Everyone was surprised. Continue into grade 8, the beginning year of high school. I got there, I did the absolute best in my class, which was a class of people who didn't take the extension maths, english or science. The management at the school noticed me and I got bumped up a year in learning. Finally :P. I'm now studying an English-based course, in what would be considered Grade 11/Junior. English, Drama, Classical Studies, History, Photography and Geography. I'm also one of the top in my school, and my public school is one of the top in NZ :P

[Myweponsg00d]

Of all those people who were "gifted" in primary/elementary school, then lost it, I was that person who was the other way around. In what you Americans would call elementary, I joked around, did the work, and generally was well educated and intelligent. I had a problem with being arrogant and obnoxious, and would often speak out against the teachers. Within the later years, of about grade 7, I began to apply myself. I sat tests for extension courses both years at intermediate (what we call grade 6-7) but got denied. I took external tests and did incredibly well in them (we're looking at A+). Everyone was surprised. Continue into grade 8, the beginning year of high school. I got there, I did the absolute best in my class, which was a class of people who didn't take the extension maths, english or science. The management at the school noticed me and I got bumped up a year in learning. Finally :P. I'm now studying an English-based course, in what would be considered Grade 11/Junior. English, Drama, Classical Studies, History, Photography and Geography. I'm also one of the top in my school, and my public school is one of the top in NZ :P

 

You're not taking any sciences..?

[Shiny]

Half my geography course is geology, if that counts.

[Zygimantas]

Of all those people who were "gifted" in primary/elementary school, then lost it, I was that person who was the other way around. In what you Americans would call elementary, I joked around, did the work, and generally was well educated and intelligent. I had a problem with being arrogant and obnoxious, and would often speak out against the teachers. Within the later years, of about grade 7, I began to apply myself. I sat tests for extension courses both years at intermediate (what we call grade 6-7) but got denied. I took external tests and did incredibly well in them (we're looking at A+). Everyone was surprised. Continue into grade 8, the beginning year of high school. I got there, I did the absolute best in my class, which was a class of people who didn't take the extension maths, english or science. The management at the school noticed me and I got bumped up a year in learning. Finally :P. I'm now studying an English-based course, in what would be considered Grade 11/Junior. English, Drama, Classical Studies, History, Photography and Geography. I'm also one of the top in my school, and my public school is one of the top in NZ :P

 

You're not taking any sciences..?

Ha. Mywepons and his science :P

[Da_Latios]

Getting good grades isn't necessary to get into a good university. Australian TIFers will know what I'm talking about when I say; I got an OP 18 and am doing an OP 4 course. It just takes a year or two longer to get in.

 

I also received a scholarship for doing absolutely nothing.

[das1330]

Getting good grades isn't necessary to get into a good university. Australian TIFers will know what I'm talking about when I say; I got an OP 18 and am doing an OP 4 course. It just takes a year or two longer to get in.

 

I also received a scholarship for doing absolutely nothing.

 

Depends on where you live and one's definition of "good". In some parts of Europe little difference exists between universities in terms of quality (all are state supported) so, relatively speaking, awesome grades do little.

 

In the United States however a relatively small number of elite universities with massive endowments & partciularly famous faculty do require superb grades for admission.

[Cup Lion]

What are your problems with physics? I have a degree in it and I am a physics teacher.

 

If you haven't accepted Cs in the past, theres no reason to accept them now.

 

Good grades alone aren't going to make you the best person in the world but they CAN give you an extra edge.

 

I got my test (that I took yesterday) back today. He told us its basically the hardest test in introductory physics. But that really didn't make me feel any better. What I find funny is that I was going over the problems in my head all yesterday and today, and I knew exactly how to do them. I actually started doing them on a scratch piece of paper before I got my test back. So, it's not like I don't know how to do the problems. We do online homework, and I finish it all with ease for the most part without asking for any help (I've gotten 100% on all the assignments so far). The daily quizzes in class make sense to me, and I get full credit a majority of the time.

 

I ended up getting a 42/100 on the test. He scaled it, though, but it wasn't much better. I got a 48% after the curve. Class average was 59%, the median was 55%. The test was over electric charge, electric fields, electric flux, gauss's law, electric potential and capacitors.

 

I think I may just be a bad test taker... only in my physics class. Heh. All my other classes are fine. Quite easy for the most part. Its this one class where I get all nervous and freeze up during the test.

 

Last semester, my exam grades were 86%, 64% (had the flu), 82%, 84%. I managed a 107% on the semester final, because he told the class the questions were going to be more in number but easier. So I relaxed a bit.

 

 

It sounds like you have the same problem that many of my students do. My first advice is to give yourself "practice tests" with the homework problems, or with other problems from the book. Once you feel you've learned the material, pick a set of problems and try to solve them without using your book/notes (and whatever else you can't use on the exam). Physics is a type of class that is way different from most subjects. It is not enough to simply look over the homeworks and see if you understand the solutions. You MUST actually be sure that you are able to do independent problem solving.

 

The other bit of advice I will give you is to always write as much as you know about a problem if it is giving you trouble.

 

For example, if you see this problem on a test: "You fall off of a 6 meter tall roof and bend your knees as you land. While bending your knees, your center of mass moves a distance of 30 cm. If your mass is 80 kg, find the force that each leg experienced."

 

Now, physics is NOT a subject where you look at the problem and can say "I don't get this problem." Even if you looked at the above problem and had no idea how you are going to get to the final solution, you can probably still figure it out if you just write down absolutely everything you know about the problem.

 

So, for example, if I was totally stuck on that example, I would first write down stuff I know about energy. I would write down potential energy and kinetic energy. I would then write down F=ma, because I see the word "force" and I know I must find force. Well, then I also know that F=dp/dt, so I would write that down. After I get all this stuff written down, it seems that what I might have to do is find his velocity right before he hits the ground and find the time that it took him to stop. So I write down some equations that involve time. v^2=2ax and v=at. Now I would have all the stuff I need to solve a problem.

 

Physics is NOT a field where you are going to get to the exam and look at the problems and be able to instantly say "I can do this one" and "I can't do this one". You must approach each problem with a determination in solving the problem. Write down every equation you know that contains some of the important physical parameters of the problem. Draw a picture. Draw a free body diagram. Make sure that you are getting your hands dirty, or else you're not really doing physics. If you continue into upper level physics, this will be even more important. I remember in my statistical mechanics class we were actually asked to DERIVE FORMULAS on the test, for things we have never seen before.

 

Physics is probably the only class you have ever taken that is actually testing you understanding of information rather than your memorization of information.

 

Also, yes, the electricity and magnetism section of Physics 2 is really really difficult. You will be getting into optics and circuits later, though. These are probably the easiest things in physics if you have a good professor. Keep your chin up and stick with the field. It is very difficult. I got a C in physics 2, which devastated me...but then by my senior year I was making As in my upper level classes that were much much more difficult. You'll find your stride.

I guess that is a really efficient means of going about a problem. That seems to be what my professor does when he approaches a problem: he just picks the appropriate equations according to the information he has (and he draws a lot of pictures). But it always amazes me how much intuition you need to approach some of the problems. Just today, my professor helped me with a problem that I had no idea how to set up (was an integral, and I wasn't sure how to write it in terms of a certain variable). He ended up showing me that I just needed to put the whole figure on a coordinate system and use a line. I honestly would have never thought of that.

 

Anyway, I think you're right about 'understanding' versus 'memorization'. It seems like high school was just a lot of memorizing things (in classes where it wasn't, ie physics, the teachers didn't really end up teaching much at all because everyone in the class simply wouldn't pay attention). It explains why I am still doing well in history and religion in university. I think you helped a lot. It's good to know why I am struggling. Like you said, if I stick with it, I'll most likely be able to pull through.

 

Wait so are you in university now or not? That's the understanding I came to whilst reading your first post, and then some posters seemed to act as if you're still in high school. Anyway, I'm going to assume you're in university.

I noticed that, too. Heh. No, I am attending university right now.

 

Just a note (I hope I don't sound like this thread is all about me, because it's not, its for everyone), I'm going to be gone for the week, but I'll check in again after I get back. Thanks everyone.

[rangeor]

Physics is great! I've held a consistent 65-70 on tests for the past year and a half on my physics tests, but I don't really care. It's fun.

 

Walter Lewin is an amazing physics professor; he's funny and really good at teaching. I'd also recommend checking out the rest of MIT's Open Course Ware site; there are some other popular and interesting classes recorded such as the Intro to Computer Science class.

 

I've been a rather average student with a GPA of 3.7 near the end of high school, but I've done a lot more important stuff too.. I've already made many contacts (mostly in the engineering industries but I have two really really good contacts in music), programmed satellites, a lot of neat robotics design, and I'm currently working as a barista in a local coffee shop. You can't have as much fun as I'm having sitting on your butt studying all day man! Besides, for nearly all of the 30+ years of your life after school, your grades will be meaningless. However there are a lot of other very important factors that you won't learn from stressing about school and blocking out everything else.

 

Well, I can confirm that MIT cares a lot more about your grade, but it's alright because their campus is ugly and depressing anyways :P And a lot of their lab equipment is actually really outdated too, it really surprised me to see MORE THAN ONE professor still using VCR... in 2010... But my point is that it shouldn't be ignored that grades are an important tool for progressing through academics, especially if you plan on getting more than just a bachelor's degree.

[xSxqPowerx]

I can understand how you feel.

 

Throughout high school I never once received a mark lower than an A- (80%). I also never put any real effort in, didn't do homework if it wasn't being collected for marks, etc.

 

Now, as a second year mechanical engineering student... it's a bit different.

It has been really hard adjusting to actually doing work. Average went to a B+ ish after first year... but I definitely struggled in some classes, such as calculus.

It's not even that I'm bad at it. I'm really not. I was above the average on every test... but when the average is below 50%, that doesn't mean too much. It's tough because I know I could do better if I did more work... but the workload for me is getting to the point where there is simply not enough time - I have to choose what I'm going to study and what I'm going to end up skipping over and not doing well on. And then there's the consideration of still having some semblance of a social life/free time.

 

In programs like physics and engineering there are a lot of very intelligent individuals, and it can be a bit depressing trying to compare yourself to others all the time.

 

Not really sure what I'm trying to say, but your marks only matter to a certain extent. I'd like to do a master's degree at some point, for which I will need to keep up at least that B+ ish average. Employers tend to use it as a tie-breaker, or as a screen (ex. they look at everyone above a certain GPA), but it isn't the end of the world if you don't have amazing marks.

[hellbellz]

I can understand how you feel.

 

Throughout high school I never once received a mark lower than an A- (80%).

Seriously? Until this last year (which didn't affect my college admission) and A was a 94%; now an A- is 90%. I believe grades should be reflected on a numerical scale. The GPA system has flaws that aren't consistent nationwide.