China > America

[obfuscator]

 

I thought you were trolling at first. China is already an international superpower, no doubt about that.

 

Oh, they're powerful alright. But they will never be anything like the States at their prime.

 

 

There's no way that China is as strongly dependent on the US as the US is on China. The US owes China billions and the only reason why consumer goods and electronics are affordable for many Americans is because of China.

 

Without the US, china's biggest exporter is gone.

 

Controlling overpopulation through limitations is hardly barbaric--it benefits the greater good in that population density is manageable as is food supply.

 

A stable economy (even society) relies on increasing population (or at least steady). China faces a massive demographic shift with an aging population that will make it impossible to stay economically stable and maintain a military. And yes, impinging on people's freedom to reproduce is barbaric.

 

Definitely not on the same scale...

 

All in all, nice try kiddo?

 

Actually, there are many countries in the word that have their debt at a higher % of GDP then the states does.

[Ginger_Warrior]

Oh, they're powerful alright. But they will never be anything like the States at their prime.

Like what? It does usually help to provide examples with half-assed generalised claims.

 

I think if either the US or China severed relations with the other, they would relatively quickly begin something of isolationism - pouring all their resources into their own nation. China would have to find someone to export more too, so they'd probably sell goods even cheaper to the EU and other places, whereas the US sells a lot more capital goods, so those can be used in whatever factories are built to provide consumer goods to Americans. They'll be more expensive, to be sure. But who can truly know what would happen? We just make guesses.

 

I personally believe China as a whole, yes, is a superpower. But it's a superpower without many teeth, since it is economically more dependent on the rest of the world than the US or EU - few of the goods produced there would be sought-after by Chinese people, whereas Western capital goods are used here already.

 

Meh.

Hence recent attempts by the Chinese government do build up the Chinese middle classes. It is a superpower, there's no denying this.

[obfuscator]

Oh, they're powerful alright. But they will never be anything like the States at their prime.

Like what? It does usually help to provide examples with half-assed generalised claims.

 

Well, do I really need to compare the influence the states has and the influence China has?

[KittyKat]

Please do. So far, all you've done is made vague (and incorrect) statements/assumptions about China.

[obfuscator]

Please do. So far, all you've done is made vague (and incorrect) statements/assumptions about China.

Then please disprove those in my previous post ;)

[jasignhagj]

I find it laughable that people actually think China has the capability to be the next superpower.

 

I thought you were trolling at first. China is already an international superpower, no doubt about that.

 

Firstly - they are just as economically dependent on the US as vice versa.

 

There's no way that China is as strongly dependent on the US as the US is on China. The US owes China billions and the only reason why consumer goods and electronics are affordable for many Americans is because of China.

 

Secondly - their barbaric population controls will make it impossible for their economy to flourish enough to give them any sort of hope for economic stability in the long term.

Controlling overpopulation through limitations is hardly barbaric--it benefits the greater good in that population density is manageable as is food supply.

 

Though, the US does have a serious debt problem which of course merits looking at. Of course, so do most countries.

Definitely not on the same scale...

 

All in all, nice try kiddo?

 

1)Power maybe, but not a superpower.

 

2)If China (Excluding ROC) disappeared tomorrow, the US would undoubtedly be hurt, but they would survive. However, if America either disappeared, or severed all ties with China, China would be ruined. They'd have no market for their goods, and their economy would collapse

 

3) Whether it's morally right or not, it will hurt china when the majority of their population is too old to work

 

4) A lot of countries are in debt right now. While the debt to china is a concern, it's not like China can just walk over and demand the money though.

 

1.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superpower

Scroll down.

 

2.

Wrong again. Look at Chinese exports, what percent go to America? (It's less than 30%).

 

3.

China obviously does not have a shortage of labor...

 

4.

Yeah, they can definitely demand their money. Also, the relative debt the US has is far greater than any other nation.

 

Again, nice try.

 

1. Maybe you should. That map is of potential superpowers, right above it states that the USA is the only true superpower today.

 

2. Still a massive hit to their economy. China would be losing a market for their goods, hurting their economy massively, while America would just have to resume manufacturing its own products, or move the factories to Mexico or another South Asian country.

 

3. Not now, but they will in the future, like Japan and non-islamic Europe.

 

4. What can they do. Don't just say 'yeah they can' and not give an explanation.

[All_Is_Great]

What is your opinion of China's position in the world today Spork?

[Noxx]

HAHA them silly Americans. Is it too hard to believe that your country isn't the greatest there is? The whole world has been saying so for a very very long time now. When will you ever catch on? Enjoy denial :thumbup:

[3rkid]

So much nationalism and jelly in this thread. Posting here just to keep this in My Content. Please continue.

[That_Brown_Kid]

GOD [bleep]ING DAMNIT EVERYONE SHOULD JUST [bleep]ING [bleep]ING [garden tool] [racist term] [rooster] JUST BUY AMERICAN@@@@@@@@@@@@

 

Honestly, just purchase American goods for a slightly increased cost, and the economy will make a turn for the better.

[Giordano]

GOD [bleep]ING DAMNIT EVERYONE SHOULD JUST [bleep]ING [bleep]ING [garden tool] [racist term] [rooster] JUST BUY AMERICAN@@@@@@@@@@@@

 

Honestly, just purchase American goods for a slightly increased cost, and the economy will make a turn for the better.

 

Where at? :mrgreen:

[That_Brown_Kid]

At your local ma and pa shop. [cabbage]... where do we buy American now??

[Giordano]

At your local ma and pa shop. [cabbage]... where do we buy American now??

Exactly. I'm all for improving the domestic market, but where do we buy everyday things at? Besides foods and high industrial goods (which the average joe will never buy) what does America produce?

[jasignhagj]

Cars. Stop buying foreign cars and buy GM, Ford or Chrysler, they make plenty of nice cars.

[Giordano]

Cars. Stop buying foreign cars and buy GM, Ford or Chrysler, they make plenty of nice cars.

Yes, I have a GM vehicle. Unfortunately, it's not a everyday good as I don't buy cars in frequency.

[Sbrideau]

Cars. Stop buying foreign cars and buy GM, Ford or Chrysler, they make plenty of nice cars.

Yes, I have a GM vehicle. Unfortunately, it's not a everyday good as I don't buy cars in frequency.

If they'd make longer lasting cars I'd probably buy one. For now, I'm good with my 10 year old toyota Echo that has 300 000 km 2 accidents and has never broke down, and that I put almost nothing in repairs. Hell, it still has the original clutch. I have yet to see an american car do this.

[Zierro]

At your local ma and pa shop. [cabbage]... where do we buy American now??

Exactly. I'm all for improving the domestic market, but where do we buy everyday things at? Besides foods and high industrial goods (which the average joe will never buy) what does America produce?

 

A world of entertainment. We even invented this sport called Football.

[Rebdragon]

Cars. Stop buying foreign cars and buy GM, Ford or Chrysler, they make plenty of nice cars.

My family owns four cars. All of them are Japanese. My dad was a MechE. I'm a MechE. Americans make crap cars. By German and Japanese if you want a good one.

 

Or you could take jobs from foreign companies that are actually good at making cars and give them to the [cabbage] companies back home.

[MisterGreen]

Countries should be working together for the common good and overall advancement of the human race, not arguing like children about who is a "super power" or not.

[das1330]

Cars. Stop buying foreign cars and buy GM, Ford or Chrysler, they make plenty of nice cars.

My family owns four cars. All of them are Japanese. My dad was a MechE. I'm a MechE. Americans make crap cars. By German and Japanese if you want a good one.

 

Or you could take jobs from foreign companies that are actually good at making cars and give them to the [cabbage] companies back home.

 

Considering that Ford has been leading in many quality surveys, such a broad statement would seem unwarranted.

[Star_Fox]

Cars. Stop buying foreign cars and buy GM, Ford or Chrysler, they make plenty of nice cars.

My family owns four cars. All of them are Japanese. My dad was a MechE. I'm a MechE. Americans make crap cars. By German and Japanese if you want a good one.

 

Or you could take jobs from foreign companies that are actually good at making cars and give them to the [cabbage] companies back home.

 

Considering that Ford has been leading in many quality surveys, such a broad statement would seem unwarranted.

 

Domestics are crap. Especially models from the mid 90s to early 2000s. Japanese imports have always been reliable which is why

they're more in demand.

Maintaining Imported automobiles is a joke since it's so ridiculously easy. Even domestic car companies are switching to Japanese

technology to get that "reliable" feeling built in to their cars. And guess what? It's working! :rolleyes:

 

 

Cars. Stop buying foreign cars and buy GM, Ford or Chrysler, they make plenty of nice cars.

Yes, I have a GM vehicle. Unfortunately, it's not a everyday good as I don't buy cars in frequency.

If they'd make longer lasting cars I'd probably buy one. For now, I'm good with my 10 year old toyota Echo that has 300 000 km 2 accidents and has never broke down, and that I put almost nothing in repairs. Hell, it still has the original clutch. I have yet to see an american car do this.

 

I've read plenty of articles on Youtube of people hitting 300K to 500K and ALL of them were imports...ALL of them were older than 2001...

Most of the people I know who owns imports bought their cars because the mileage didn't even bother them. I have a civic with 151K,

10 years old, and it practically runs like new. Whenever I pass by an auto shop, almost all the cars parked are the usual

domesticated crap with either a broken tranny, engine, or parts falling off.

[TrueBeaver]

 

First of all, not sure it was pointed out, but that advertisement was from Citizens Against Government Waste, a conservative political group who wanted to highlight the ill effects of the high deficits of the Obama administration right before the mid-term elections last year.

 

Hmm, unfortunately everything I was going to say was extensively covered. Just to summarize:

China holding the US's debt gives them very little pragmatic power. Look at how easily we got them to change their undervalued currency a little while ago. As was stated, we could not pay our debts if they demanded them and would default which would devastate the United States but would shake China to its core.

There are lots of emerging economies which would love to cut into China's market share, especially Southeast Asia. If the Chinese cut ties with us we would still receive cheap products from Wal Mart, et al.

China could, feasibly, become a superpower. It's not likely to happen anytime soon, but it's feasible. As the linked wikipedia article makes clear, military might is a major part of being a superpower (obviously) and I recall recently reading that China's defense spending is increasing something fierce. This article gives an idea but as I recall, the one I read was much more alarming.

China does not have a shortage of labor now, but it's very possible in the future. Further, a hundred-some odd years ago American workers were considered some of the most hard working in the world. Success means not having to do the dirty jobs any more. Rather than working 14 hour shifts at the textile factory, we're now working 8 hour shifts in an air-conditioned Wal-Mart. If you think this "Chinese enthusiasm" will last after they attain a comparable standard of living to the Western world, you're kidding yourself.

 

A minor point a read in one of the posts and wanted to address: that the debt the US has is greater than any other nation. The only way you could spin that to make it true is if you don't take GDP into account, which is incredibly misleading. For example, if I make $10,000 per year and have a $100,000 debt I'm in a much worse situation than Johnny Coltrane who makes $1,000,000 a year and has a $500,000 debt, despite the fact that he has more debt. Public Debt as a Percentage of GDP and External Debt as a Percentage of GDP (you'll have to sort the column yourself).

 

Finally, those people blindly dismissing anyone who dares disagree with their world view as blindly patriotic is amusing to say the least.

 

Cliffs: China may become super power one day, America is still bossin' it up now, obvious troll thread is obvious.

 

Edit: Almost forgot the "Buy Domestic" lollapalooza. I'll buy domestic when they create a product I like as much as the best foreign product. I'm all for buying American and all that, but at the end of the day I'm buying the best product for my dollar and as of last November when I bought a new car that was a Hyundai. There are several quality American cars, to say otherwise is just silly, but it's true that if you look at companies by fewest repairs over the x years following a purchase, American companies are put to shame.

edit2: couldn't find the exact study I referred to but this is a pretty similar one.

[Giordano]

 

Even domestic car companies are switching to Japanese

technology to get that "reliable" feeling built in to their cars. And guess what? It's working! :rolleyes:

My Chevy tracker has a Suzuki engine! :lol:

[20Rice04]

America and China aren't weak, but I'd hardly say they were 'running the show' to the extent they'd like.

 

I imagine the notion of a country being a 'super power' will be all but irrelevant by 2030. Every single country will be reliant on multiple other nations. Fact is this is happening right now, but people would rather stick their fingers in their ears and pretend it wasn't because they can't handle not being "Number 1". Don't worry I'm sure by 2300 People will be having a Mars > Earth discussion on the Uber-Awesome-Death-Net, hell if they have biological immortality mastered in the next 50 to 100 years some of us might be around to take part in it.

[sees_all1]

The IMF predicts that China's economy will surpass the US's sometime in 2016. I feel like if Bernanke and Geithner would quit inflating the dollar, the outlook would be much different.