Third Bind Guide and/or Discussion.

[ghjkl]

After reading the guide I decided I'd go for a rapier, but as it turned out to be not as effective as we thought, now I'm confused what to take, and rapier was my only choice tbh. My stats are:

 

94 Attack, 95 Strength, 94 Def, 92 Ranged, 90 Magic.

 

Was thinking about Prom gaunts but that's obviously not good idea.

 

Will appreciate any answer, thanks

Why don't you get a plate?

[Andy]

After reading the guide I decided I'd go for a rapier, but as it turned out to be not as effective as we thought, now I'm confused what to take, and rapier was my only choice tbh. My stats are:

 

94 Attack, 95 Strength, 94 Def, 92 Ranged, 90 Magic.

 

Was thinking about Prom gaunts but that's obviously not good idea.

 

Will appreciate any answer, thanks

Why don't you get a plate?

Plates are only used by keyers and people who are bad at dungeoneering. It's a crutch to help bad dger's tank damage. Proper dungeoneer'ers are able to trample/safespot/pray accordingly in rooms.

 

:thumbup: The more you know!

[Jeff Delu]

After reading the guide I decided I'd go for a rapier, but as it turned out to be not as effective as we thought, now I'm confused what to take, and rapier was my only choice tbh. My stats are:

 

94 Attack, 95 Strength, 94 Def, 92 Ranged, 90 Magic.

 

Was thinking about Prom gaunts but that's obviously not good idea.

 

Will appreciate any answer, thanks

Why don't you get a plate?

Plates are only used by keyers and people who are bad at dungeoneering. It's a crutch to help bad dger's tank damage. Proper dungeoneer'ers are able to trample/safespot/pray accordingly in rooms.

 

:thumbup: The more you know!

What is trampling?

[Zaaps1]

Trampling is when you step on the same square as an NPC or player (or run directly through it). This "flips" the NPC/player and lets NPCs walk through that square unhindered.

 

If an NPC/player is "untrampled", you can effectively hide on the north/south side of that square and trap a melee NPC on the opposite side. This ensures that the NPC never attacks you. It's a very useful trick when you are under attack by melee and range/magic since you can use your teammates/rangers/magers as untrampled obstacles, preventing the meleers from becoming a threat. Very useful on Necromancers and Reborn Mages especially (in fact, if you don't trample any of the warriors, you can position them so a horde of warriors are essentially useless in combat).

 

Also very useful in the Necrolord and Skeletal Trio bosses, since in both cases you prevent taking any melee damage (exception of the one person who must be the blocker in Necrolord).

 

If an NPC/player is trampled, you can untrample by simply moving to another square.

[ghjkl]

After reading the guide I decided I'd go for a rapier, but as it turned out to be not as effective as we thought, now I'm confused what to take, and rapier was my only choice tbh. My stats are:

 

94 Attack, 95 Strength, 94 Def, 92 Ranged, 90 Magic.

 

Was thinking about Prom gaunts but that's obviously not good idea.

 

Will appreciate any answer, thanks

Why don't you get a plate?

Plates are only used by keyers and people who are bad at dungeoneering. It's a crutch to help bad dger's tank damage. Proper dungeoneer'ers are able to trample/safespot/pray accordingly in rooms.

 

:thumbup: The more you know!

How do you know that this guy is a 'proper dungeoneerer?'

From a pure exp/hr prespective plate is better than everything but ccs/hex/neck.

In 'proper dungeoneering' there is no such thing as keying. 1 guy holds the keys so it is easier to know what keys have been picked up.

[Invidiae]

I've dged 1-98 without plate and I won't need it after 100, thanks.

Binding a platebeard is a waste of time, maybe it makes you die less (which will be tbh beneficial due to my comp, 70% of deaths come out of teleport/door lags), but still I want to contribute to the team by binding an offensive weapon, to speed up the floors. I'm still learning, I'm not a proper dungeoneer, but binding a plate if not keying is not a way to become it.

[Articultural]

Since when is there a distinction between "proper" dungeoneerers and others?

[Fulco]

I've dged 1-98 without plate and I won't need it after 100, thanks.

Binding a platebeard is a waste of time, maybe it makes you die less (which will be tbh beneficial due to my comp, 70% of deaths come out of teleport/door lags), but still I want to contribute to the team by binding an offensive weapon, to speed up the floors. I'm still learning, I'm not a proper dungeoneer, but binding a plate if not keying is not a way to become it.

 

Actually considering the speed at which dungeons are finished off at high levels, a plate is a consider worthy bind if you look at xp/h.

I know the entire philosophy of DGS is to maximize floor time and thus offensive binds but if you purely look at your own xp/h you're probably better off with a plate than with an offensive bind which doesn't speed the floor up that much.

 

Don't get me wrong, I myself don't have a plate bound, I have 2h hex and hood but I'm still planning on binding a plate at 120 as ever since I've gotten my hex, my average xp/floor has gone down while my average floor time hardly was affected by it.

 

PS: A little something to think about: If offensive binds is the way to go, why does everyone have a hood bound? Tell me 1 room (bar mime room, I'll give anyone that) where a hood actually speeds up the floor considerably if everyone on the team has a hood.

Imagine forbidding a hood. Tanking zombies in a gd? Not an issue, everyone will share the damage.

[Invidiae]

Once again, don't suggest me binding a plate, because even if I wanted it, I couldn't because of DGS policy, which is fine for me.

 

Hood is the best defensive item in dung so it can be treated as an exception, it's way better than plate bind, trust me.

[Obtaurian]

To clarify, the goal of DGS is not and was never to maximize speed, as that would be very inefficient for the vast majority of our members.

 

Since when is there a distinction between "proper" dungeoneerers and others?

 

By 'proper' he means 'good', and he's implying that good dungeoneering should be the standard (ie, knowing combat mechanics and utilizing them to avoid damage rather than Rambo'ing everything).

 

The point of being forced to use an offensive third bind is that it essentially forces one to learn how to not die. The increase in DPS helps, of course, but that's just frosting.

[ghjkl]

Once again, don't suggest me binding a plate, because even if I wanted it, I couldn't because of DGS policy, which is fine for me.

 

Hood is the best defensive item in dung so it can be treated as an exception, it's way better than plate bind, trust me.

Dgs has a policy discouraging plates, but it doesn't forbid it. Only a few people will choose to not take you without a 'proper' third bind.

[Quyneax]

@ Fulco: I do hope you're binding a leathertop, not a plate, at 120? Taking off the plate every time you have to hex something won't be good for your overall performance.

[Fulco]

@ Fulco: I do hope you're binding a leathertop, not a plate, at 120? Taking off the plate every time you have to hex something won't be good for your overall performance.

 

Well I'm still in doubt what I'll do after 120. I might just lose my hood and just go all offensive suicide binds (blood neck + primal gaunts).

If I however keep going for xp then I'm planning on binding a saggi body at the start, however if that doesn't substantially bring the amount of deaths down then I will not doubt to bind a plate, even if it decreases my DPS.

(inb4 learn to hug/pray). There are plenty of situations where you just get destroyed without any form of defence even if you are a pro at hugging

[Articultural]

The problem with binding a leathertop over a platebody is that you still have to pray mage when running through a room of rangers and mages incase you get bound. I've been bound through massive magic defence (150+) so many times that it effectively makes a leathertop mainly an offensive bind for its +range attack. The problem with this is when you're not ranging, you then have -7 Slash attack (combined with the -2 of hood if you don't take it off) compared to +11 from bn and the strength bonus from gaunts (+23 with gaunts and bn).

 

Essentially, mages being able to bind you (and skeleton mages apparently being range based according to DGS - I haven't personally tested it) makes a leathertop a terrible defensive bind, and the ease of creating range armour without wasting time combined with melee armour being much harder to make without wasting time make leathertops effectively a waste of a bind in the vast majority of situations.

 

If you want a defensive bind, get a plate, if you want an offensive bind, get a blood necklace or something similar which won't only increase your DPS when you're ranging (which is often a minority of the time).

[Obtaurian]

The problem with binding a leathertop over a platebody is that you still have to pray mage when running through a room of rangers and mages incase you get bound. I've been bound through massive magic defence (150+) so many times that it effectively makes a leathertop mainly an offensive bind for its +range attack.

 

You do the same thing without a defensive bind. I don't see the problem. That said, mages always unhood before they attack, and by that time you should already be most of the way through the room, if not out of sight of the mage altogether. I have extensive experience keying in ranged armor (thanks to Michael and Green Rect), and I've very rarely been bound, with or without it. You're overestimating mages.

 

The problem with this is when you're not ranging, you then have -7 Slash attack (combined with the -2 of hood if you don't take it off) compared to +11 from bn and the strength bonus from gaunts (+23 with gaunts and bn).

 

Hex users should be ranging around 40% of the time (assuming occult/warped floors), and a sagittarian body allows a hex to be used in some situations where it normally wouldn't, or wouldn't without some other form of boosting, like potions (ie, skeleton mages, blink, gravecreeper). The increased accuracy is very non-trivial, especially for keyers with hexes, as they use ranged much more often than melee, and most bosses can be hexed. That said, I think a blood neck is potentially better for hex users who primarily DPS/carry/wingman. It's really a case-by-case thing.

 

Essentially, mages being able to bind you (and skeleton mages apparently being range based according to DGS - I haven't personally tested it) makes a leathertop a terrible defensive bind,

 

Sagittarian bodies make shades much less dangerous and definitely make most mages less harmful. You're underestimating the defense.

 

and the ease of creating range armour without wasting time

 

Making ranged armor is very situational. You really can't expect to have it most floors.

 

combined with melee armour being much harder to make without wasting time

 

Completely irrelevant, as you'd never make melee armor anyway.

 

make leathertops effectively a waste of a bind in the vast majority of situations.

 

I deem this untrue.

 

If you want a defensive bind, get a plate, if you want an offensive bind, get a blood necklace or something similar which won't only increase your DPS when you're ranging (which is often a minority of the time).

 

If you want both an offensive and a defensive bind, you have a hex, and you key often, bind a sagittarian body.

[Articultural]

The problem with binding a leathertop over a platebody is that you still have to pray mage when running through a room of rangers and mages incase you get bound. I've been bound through massive magic defence (150+) so many times that it effectively makes a leathertop mainly an offensive bind for its +range attack.

 

You do the same thing without a defensive bind. I don't see the problem. That said, mages always unhood before they attack, and by that time you should already be most of the way through the room, if not out of sight of the mage altogether. I have extensive experience keying in ranged armor (thanks to Michael and Green Rect), and I've very rarely been bound, with or without it. You're overestimating mages.

 

I was referring to when Fulco said he wanted to reduce dying by binding a platebody. Obviously a leathertop is better than nothing, I merely mean that if he wanted a solely defensive bind, a platebody would be a better option.

 

The problem with this is when you're not ranging, you then have -7 Slash attack (combined with the -2 of hood if you don't take it off) compared to +11 from bn and the strength bonus from gaunts (+23 with gaunts and bn).

 

Hex users should be ranging around 40% of the time (assuming occult/warped floors), and a sagittarian body allows a hex to be used in some situations where it normally wouldn't, or wouldn't without some other form of boosting, like potions (ie, skeleton mages, blink, gravecreeper). The increased accuracy is very non-trivial, especially for keyers with hexes, as they use ranged much more often than melee, and most bosses can be hexed. That said, I think a blood neck is potentially better for hex users who primarily DPS/carry/wingman. It's really a case-by-case thing.

 

Again, I was referring to Fulco's comment about how he wished to reduce deaths. As a defensive bind, a leathertop is worse than a platebody in most situations and as an offensive bind, depending on how much you range, I'd probably recommend a blood necklace over a leathertop. You're sacrificing 21 slash/crush attack and 11 strength for 22 ranged attack (and some defence), which I doubt will be worth it unless you have a floor with a lot of hexable monsters.

 

 

Essentially, mages being able to bind you (and skeleton mages apparently being range based according to DGS - I haven't personally tested it) makes a leathertop a terrible defensive bind,

 

Sagittarian bodies make shades much less dangerous and definitely make most mages less harmful. You're underestimating the defense.

 

You can easily pray against most mages though. You'll often take less damage praying magic with a mage + ranger on you in a plate than you will praying ranged with a mage + ranger on you in a plate, but again, its mostly situational.

 

and the ease of creating range armour without wasting time

 

Making ranged armor is very situational. You really can't expect to have it most floors.

 

Assuming you have decent Crafting and Hunter levels and there is no one else trying to make armour on your floors, making ranged armour isn't nearly as hard as you make it seem. You can easily buy a needle and 5 thread without wasting time and then either loot logs, cut when idle or just buy from the shop. It's not hard to drop a trap when you run past and skin it if you get a chance later on.

 

combined with melee armour being much harder to make without wasting time

 

Completely irrelevant, as you'd never make melee armor anyway.

 

That was my point, if you're in a dungeon and have no melee armour, you'd never make it (except sometimes for Kal'Ger). If you had melee armour bound and needed range armour, it would be relatively easy to make without wasting time.

 

make leathertops effectively a waste of a bind in the vast majority of situations.

 

I deem this untrue.

 

It is very situational, but there are very few realistic situations where a leathertop bind is the best use of a bind slot. To be frank, people are going to bind what they want and that's how it should be, dungeoneering should be about enjoying yourself not having binds you don't enjoy using because someone else told you they're more efficient. I would argue that in almost every situation there is a better use for a bind slot than a leathertop, but yes, with a hex in certain situations they can be extremely useful.

 

If you want a defensive bind, get a plate, if you want an offensive bind, get a blood necklace or something similar which won't only increase your DPS when you're ranging (which is often a minority of the time).

 

If you want both an offensive and a defensive bind, you have a hex, and you key often, bind a sagittarian body.

 

Which you could do, but it's a worse defensive bind than a platebody and arguably a worse offensive bind than a blood necklace. Ultimately, it won't really make that much difference to your floor times or deaths, but it's not a bind I would personally recommend due to the small amount of situations when it's better than any other bind.

[Grimy_Bunyip]

To be frank, people are going to bind what they want and that's how it should be, dungeoneering should be about enjoying yourself not having binds you don't enjoy using because someone else told you they're more efficient.

This is the metagame discussion subforum.

The entire point of this subforum is basically efficiency.

[Andy]

It is very situational, but there are very few realistic situations where a leathertop bind is the best use of a bind slot. To be frank, people are going to bind what they want and that's how it should be, dungeoneering should be about enjoying yourself not having binds you don't enjoy using because someone else told you they're more efficient.

Why are you on a thread about the best 3rd binds if you feel binds should be chosen on what the person likes, rather than what is efficient? I like maramaros mauls, but i'm not going to bind one because enjoy using it.

 

If you want a defensive bind, get a plate, if you want an offensive bind, get a blood necklace or something similar which won't only increase your DPS when you're ranging (which is often a minority of the time).

 

If you want both an offensive and a defensive bind, you have a hex, and you key often, bind a sagittarian body.

 

Which you could do, but it's a worse defensive bind than a platebody and arguably a worse offensive bind than a blood necklace. Ultimately, it won't really make that much difference to your floor times or deaths, but it's not a bind I would personally recommend due to the small amount of situations when it's better than any other bind.

Unless jagex updated it so you can smith blood necklaces, depending on a bneck drop isn't exactly a great plan. Bind a sag body till neck, assuming you have a hex.

[Articultural]

Because if you intend to dungeoneer without a permanent team, you have to be ready for other players to bind items which aren't as efficient as other ones, e.g. sagitarrian bodies.

[Obtaurian]

I was referring to when Fulco said he wanted to reduce dying by binding a platebody. Obviously a leathertop is better than nothing, I merely mean that if he wanted a solely defensive bind, a platebody would be a better option.

 

I agree with that, but he didn't specifically state that he wanted a solely defensive bind, hence this discussion.

 

Again, I was referring to Fulco's comment about how he wished to reduce deaths. As a defensive bind, a leathertop is worse than a platebody in most situations and as an offensive bind, depending on how much you range, I'd probably recommend a blood necklace over a leathertop.

 

Once again you would use your hex about 40% of the time if you're DPSing and much more if you're keying. The blood neck effect is mostly useless while you're hexing, so that cuts down on the DPS increase by a significant amount, especially if you're the keyer. As previously stated, a sagittarian body is a nice medium between an offensive and defensive bind for a keyer.

 

You're sacrificing 21 slash/crush attack and 11 strength for 22 ranged attack (and some defence), which I doubt will be worth it unless you have a floor with a lot of hexable monsters.

 

As it so happens, occults and warpeds have a lot of hexable monsters and bosses, and abnds have very hexable bosses. The advantage of a platebody over a sagi body is ranged defense, but at the cost of a great deal of DPS. Melee monsters can be side-stepped most of the time, and a sagi body only has slightly less crush def than a plate. Hexhunter bows are pretty inaccurate, so the +22 ranged attack of the body over the blood neck is very significant. In terms of melee offense, a blood neck is obviously superior, but as a keyer you're not going to be melee'ing very much.

 

Essentially, mages being able to bind you (and skeleton mages apparently being range based according to DGS - I haven't personally tested it) makes a leathertop a terrible defensive bind,

 

I've already countered this in my previous post. You just ignored it and reasserted your point.

 

You can easily pray against most mages though. You'll often take less damage praying magic with a mage + ranger on you in a plate than you will praying ranged with a mage + ranger on you in a plate, but again, its mostly situational.

 

I have a hex. Mages don't last long enough for me to need to have to tank a ranger for any length of time. Thus, I'd usually opt to pray ranged, saving me some food. And just FYI, t11 rangers rape everything, regardless of defense. It's definitely situational, though.

 

Assuming you have decent Crafting and Hunter levels and there is no one else trying to make armour on your floors, making ranged armour isn't nearly as hard as you make it seem. You can easily buy a needle and 5 thread without wasting time and then either loot logs, cut when idle or just buy from the shop. It's not hard to drop a trap when you run past and skin it if you get a chance later on.

 

I'm very, very aware of how to make ranged armor loss-less; DGS invented it, after all. How often do you return to a path, and do you have time to spare to skin a dino when you should be running to your door(s)? Again, it's incredibly situational, and not usually worth making except on Kal'Ger floors or if you've already procured ragers and don't have a path to run or a GD/puzzle to do.

 

That was my point, if you're in a dungeon and have no melee armour, you'd never make it (except sometimes for Kal'Ger). If you had melee armour bound and needed range armour, it would be relatively easy to make without wasting time.

 

As previously stated, it would not be worth making most of the time. Also, you should never make melee armor for Kal'Ger. That's a huge waste of time when ranged armor is way easier and faster to make (buy protoleather from the shop).

 

It is very situational, but there are very few realistic situations where a leathertop bind is the best use of a bind slot.

 

Once again I deem this untrue.

 

To be frank, people are going to bind what they want and that's how it should be, dungeoneering should be about enjoying yourself not having binds you don't enjoy using because someone else told you they're more efficient.

 

Lol'd.

 

I would argue that in almost every situation there is a better use for a bind slot than a leathertop, but yes, with a hex in certain situations they can be extremely useful.

 

I would disagree with your argument for reasons stated above.

 

Which you could do, but it's a worse defensive bind than a platebody and arguably a worse offensive bind than a blood necklace.

 

What about when you want both defense and offense as a hex keyer, which is exactly what a sagittarian body is tailor-made for?

 

Ultimately, it won't really make that much difference to your floor times or deaths, but it's not a bind I would personally recommend due to the small amount of situations when it's better than any other bind.

 

Once again, I disagree. ALL THAT SAID, I plan on binding a sagittarian body at 120 (hood + primal 2h + hex + sagi body) until I find a blood neck, at which point I'll switch out my body for the neck and my 2h for a battleaxe and try it out for around 10-20m exp. I'm definitely not against binding a blood neck, but I key very often and a little extra defense with a non-trivial gain in hex DPS would cater to my needs very nicely. I could bind a plate, but that would be useless when I decide to carry/wingman in a floor.

 

My personal philosophy is that your third bind should increase your offense and your fourth bind should cater to your specific needs as a dungeoneer.

 

Because if you intend to dungeoneer without a permanent team, you have to be ready for other players to bind items which aren't as efficient as other ones, e.g. sagitarrian bodies.

 

DGS is one big permanent team. This guide was written for members of DGS, specifically (though it'll be useful to anyone with an offensive third bind). I would agree with you if I used 148 or 3BO.

[IHasChicken]

Jimi, that was a thing of beauty and you should be incredibly proud.

 

I love you.

 

No homo.

 

And I don't see why these people who feel that defence > offence in Dungeoneering can be having more fun.

 

To me it just seems like they want MORE xp from dying less, which means they can DG less and beat the grind faster.

 

I don't get it.

[ghjkl]

Jimi, that was a thing of beauty and you should be incredibly proud.

 

I love you.

 

No homo.

 

And I don't see why these people who feel that defence > offence in Dungeoneering can be having more fun.

 

To me it just seems like they want MORE xp from dying less, which means they can DG less and beat the grind faster.

 

I don't get it.

Some people just feel that dying 5x a floor is not fun. They must be crazy.

[Articultural]

Jimi, that was a thing of beauty and you should be incredibly proud.

 

I love you.

 

No homo.

 

And I don't see why these people who feel that defence > offence in Dungeoneering can be having more fun.

 

To me it just seems like they want MORE xp from dying less, which means they can DG less and beat the grind faster.

 

I don't get it.

 

Do you have a hood bound?

 

I was referring to when Fulco said he wanted to reduce dying by binding a platebody. Obviously a leathertop is better than nothing, I merely mean that if he wanted a solely defensive bind, a platebody would be a better option.

 

I agree with that, but he didn't specifically state that he wanted a solely defensive bind, hence this discussion.

 

Again, I was referring to Fulco's comment about how he wished to reduce deaths. As a defensive bind, a leathertop is worse than a platebody in most situations and as an offensive bind, depending on how much you range, I'd probably recommend a blood necklace over a leathertop.

 

Once again you would use your hex about 40% of the time if you're DPSing and much more if you're keying. The blood neck effect is mostly useless while you're hexing, so that cuts down on the DPS increase by a significant amount, especially if you're the keyer. As previously stated, a sagittarian body is a nice medium between an offensive and defensive bind for a keyer.

 

Meaning 60% of the time your 3rd bind is completely useless (or giving you - attack bonuses) offensively. Using a hex doesn't restrict your ability to stand next to monsters either.

 

You're sacrificing 21 slash/crush attack and 11 strength for 22 ranged attack (and some defence), which I doubt will be worth it unless you have a floor with a lot of hexable monsters.

 

As it so happens, occults and warpeds have a lot of hexable monsters and bosses, and abnds have very hexable bosses. The advantage of a platebody over a sagi body is ranged defense, but at the cost of a great deal of DPS. Melee monsters can be side-stepped most of the time, and a sagi body only has slightly less crush def than a plate. Hexhunter bows are pretty inaccurate, so the +22 ranged attack of the body over the blood neck is very significant. In terms of melee offense, a blood neck is obviously superior, but as a keyer you're not going to be melee'ing very much.

 

It really depends on the floor, there are floors where you will melee a lot more than you range. The point is that a sagitarrian body is sub-par for melee/range defence, around 150 less stab/slash/ranged defence and 34 crush defence (which is more than the 22 range attack that you seem to find very significant) less than a platebody, making it really not worth it defence wise, and offense wise it's not as good as a blood necklace if you intend on meleeing (which, according to your statistics, you should be doing for over 50% of the time you're in combat).

 

Essentially, mages being able to bind you (and skeleton mages apparently being range based according to DGS - I haven't personally tested it) makes a leathertop a terrible defensive bind,

 

I've already countered this in my previous post. You just ignored it and reasserted your point.

 

Because I've had extremely high magic defence binds in the past and yet still be bound multiple times per floor, even with 99 Magic. It's not so much of a problem in GDs, its more that it slows you down when you're running through rooms with your hood already disabled (or there are multiple mages/a mage gets multiple attacks in).

 

You can easily pray against most mages though. You'll often take less damage praying magic with a mage + ranger on you in a plate than you will praying ranged with a mage + ranger on you in a plate, but again, its mostly situational.

 

I have a hex. Mages don't last long enough for me to need to have to tank a ranger for any length of time. Thus, I'd usually opt to pray ranged, saving me some food. And just FYI, t11 rangers rape everything, regardless of defense. It's definitely situational, though.

 

136 skeletons are quite inaccurate when you have armour though, and have very high DPS because of their rapid attack speed when you don't. I agree that it's situational, but I find myself in a situation where I need range defence and am praying magic more often than need magic defence and am praying ranged.

 

Assuming you have decent Crafting and Hunter levels and there is no one else trying to make armour on your floors, making ranged armour isn't nearly as hard as you make it seem. You can easily buy a needle and 5 thread without wasting time and then either loot logs, cut when idle or just buy from the shop. It's not hard to drop a trap when you run past and skin it if you get a chance later on.

 

I'm very, very aware of how to make ranged armor loss-less; DGS invented it, after all. How often do you return to a path, and do you have time to spare to skin a dino when you should be running to your door(s)? Again, it's incredibly situational, and not usually worth making except on Kal'Ger floors or if you've already procured ragers and don't have a path to run or a GD/puzzle to do.

 

Don't flatter yourself, people have been crafting armour without wasting time since April 2010, DGS may have publicised it but they by no means invented it.

 

Dungeons often fold back on eachother, there will often be a mastyx near a gated door where you can drop a trap and skin it later on. I rarely have floors where I'm unable to craft at least some ranged armour.

 

It is very situational, but there are very few realistic situations where a leathertop bind is the best use of a bind slot.

 

Once again I deem this untrue.

 

I would argue that in almost every situation there is a better use for a bind slot than a leathertop, but yes, with a hex in certain situations they can be extremely useful.

 

I would disagree with your argument for reasons stated above.

 

You're free to disagree with whoever you want for whatever reasons you want, the point is that it's subpar for both defence and offense and, unless you're ranging a majority of the time and low crafting/hunter, I can think of much better uses for a bind slot.

 

Which you could do, but it's a worse defensive bind than a platebody and arguably a worse offensive bind than a blood necklace.

 

What about when you want both defense and offense as a hex keyer, which is exactly what a sagittarian body is tailor-made for?

 

To use DGS's argument, if you keyed 1-99 without a defensive bind, why do you need one at 100+?

 

Ultimately, it won't really make that much difference to your floor times or deaths, but it's not a bind I would personally recommend due to the small amount of situations when it's better than any other bind.

 

Once again, I disagree. ALL THAT SAID, I plan on binding a sagittarian body at 120 (hood + primal 2h + hex + sagi body) until I find a blood neck, at which point I'll switch out my body for the neck and my 2h for a battleaxe and try it out for around 10-20m exp. I'm definitely not against binding a blood neck, but I key very often and a little extra defense with a non-trivial gain in hex DPS would cater to my needs very nicely. I could bind a plate, but that would be useless when I decide to carry/wingman in a floor.

 

My personal philosophy is that your third bind should increase your offense and your fourth bind should cater to your specific needs as a dungeoneer.

 

I'm not saying you should bind a plate, just that if you wanted to reduce deaths, as Fulco appeared to want to, the most effective binds for doing so are a hood and a plate, one of which he already had.

[IHasChicken]

Jimi, that was a thing of beauty and you should be incredibly proud.

 

I love you.

 

No homo.

 

And I don't see why these people who feel that defence > offence in Dungeoneering can be having more fun.

 

To me it just seems like they want MORE xp from dying less, which means they can DG less and beat the grind faster.

 

I don't get it.

Some people just feel that dying 5x a floor is not fun. They must be crazy.

If you're dying consistently 5x a floor even with no plate, you should focus less on what you're binding and more on actually learning how to sidestep/kite/pray against the right things.

 

I can't think of ANYONE who doesn't intentionally consistently average 5 deaths a floor in DGS (isn't a suicide keyer). At all

 

Exaggeration is always bad.

[Quyneax]

To respond to your point of 34 crush defence being greater than 22 ranged attack is comparing plate + neck to just saggitarian body. Also: you will have 51 ranged attack with hex + hood, 59 with blood neck (+6.9% accuracy roll) and 84 with saggitarian body (+28.7% accuracy roll). With hood + body you will have 115 crush defence, with plate + hood you will have 149 crush defence (+19% defence roll). So in fact the ranged accuracy increase is greater than the crush defence increase.