Feedback: Bot Threads in General Discussion

[Carl]

"Botting" is just too big an issue with many seperate aspects to be lazily jumbled together under one thread or sticky. It's fine as is.

 

Exactly my opinion, completely unfair to force people to discuss it in a thread that's going to simply get overlooked in time...All because a handful of people dislike having to read the other threads (As if they are being forced to read them...!). I think it's a poor way to go about doing things.

 

Give people an inch and they'll take a yard.

[BloodAngel]

Not enough discussion to warrant a separate subforum and too much varied discussion to merge it all into one thread in my opinion. Three of the botting topics seem to be about stopping them (Jagex Bot Busting, Why Doesn't Jagex Incorporate this to Stop Bots? and Methods for Killing Bots) which could probably be rolled into one thread about stopping Bots. So yea, I would say don't necessarily merge it all into one thread since it's quite a broad topic but perhaps look at merging the similar threads together.

[Kimberly]

One thread, but NOT a sticky. Stickies tend to go unnoticed whereas a normal thread can be more dynamic. And lord knows it'll be the most popular thread in GD by far.

 

This is my exact same feelings and I couldn't agree more. A prime example of this is just how many introduction topics we see from new users who don't notice the sticky.

 

"Botting" is just too big an issue with many seperate aspects to be lazily jumbled together under one thread or sticky. It's fine as is.

 

Exactly my opinion, completely unfair to force people to discuss it in a thread that's going to simply get overlooked in time...All because a handful of people dislike having to read the other threads (As if they are being forced to read them...!). I think it's a poor way to go about doing things.

 

Give people an inch and they'll take a yard.

 

What exactly is the 'varied opinions' that you'd see put together in one thread as being unfair? If you look at any thread, part of discussion, blog post, or ANYTHING bringing up botting it's either ranting about them, discussing ethics, or discussing their effects on the economy. There's a new sticky about ranting about bots in the Rants forum and the other two subjects primarily discussed can most certainly be contained in one thread without hampering discussion. Just look at the "200M in All Skills?" thread. Discussion progresses perfectly there when the thread is maintained and discusses three varied topics all in one neat spot.

 

The thing about having it all in one concentrated spot is botting is a hot-button issue at this point and time. You are going to see a myriad of threads that are constantly being posted over every tiny facet of discussion that just barely counts for its own topic if this continues as it is. They will continually push down other topics with broad discussion because of everyone reiterating the exact same thing they've already said elsewhere just to feel justified. Now that is not fair to users who are out for a rich and mature discussion, if you ask me.

 

EDIT: These are my personal opinions as a user and not my opinion as a staff member, yada yada you know the drill.

[Ginger_Warrior]

A myriad?

 

You mean four threads out of the thirty on the GD's front page?

[Kimberly]

A myriad?

 

You mean four threads out of the thirty on the GD's front page?

 

I mean the obvious botting threads or posts that have been plauging users for months at a time. (and more, I just can't be bothered to fit them all into a witty demonstrative sentence)

 

Just because they don't bother you in particular does not mean it's responsible to ignore the extremely large amount of users irritated by this occurance. And mind you, this was from the general discussion forum alone. These debates have been spilling all across the Runescape section. Having a concentrated thread to direct discussion to enables the staff to better manage this hydra-like trend and help a large portion of the community unhappy with this trend enjoy the board more. And the more people enjoy the environment, the better the posting environment will be for everyone.

 

So everyone profits. Not just those who are unhappy with things as they stand.

 

There is no reason not to try this method, especially when it's so easily reversed as saying, "you're no longer restricted to just one thread" if it doesn't happen to work out.

[Obtaurian]

The 3rd age/rares/spirit shields topic is another hugely successful thread that pretty much cleaned GD up back when there were new merchanting topics every six hours. I just don't think discussion of botting is varied enough to warrant multiple topics. Ever.

[Danqazmlp]

I wouldn't mind it being cleaned into distinctly different bot threads. Like how we currently have numerous about getting rid of bots which don't actively talk about the problems with them, but how to get rid of them. These should be consolidated.

 

Then there are those about the annoynaces with them which should probably go to rants.

 

Then there are those which talk about the practices of bots, morality and the such. These should be consolidated.

[Ginger_Warrior]

I don't argue against consolidation I just think the topic at hand is too large to cover in a single thread. If I was doing essay then yeah sure I could cover it with one essay but Internet threads don't tend to follow PEE structure.

[Carl]

A myriad?

 

You mean four threads out of the thirty on the GD's front page?

 

I mean the obvious botting threads or posts that have been plauging users for months at a time. (and more, I just can't be bothered to fit them all into a witty demonstrative sentence)

 

Just because they don't bother you in particular does not mean it's responsible to ignore the extremely large amount of users irritated by this occurance. And mind you, this was from the general discussion forum alone. These debates have been spilling all across the Runescape section. Having a concentrated thread to direct discussion to enables the staff to better manage this hydra-like trend and help a large portion of the community unhappy with this trend enjoy the board more. And the more people enjoy the environment, the better the posting environment will be for everyone.

 

So everyone profits. Not just those who are unhappy with things as they stand.

 

There is no reason not to try this method, especially when it's so easily reversed as saying, "you're no longer restricted to just one thread" if it doesn't happen to work out.

 

Looking at those threads you've merely highlighted alone, I can't imagine how people would be expected to actively discuss such topics in the one thread. These threads aren't actually causing a disturbance, people are simply choosing to take a much greater notice and become far more hostile towards them. I'm enjoying the board with them, just as much as I would have without them. Actually, probably even more now. Because there's a wide range of people who are interested in the vast amount of things to discuss, many who pose interesting opinions... Take, for example the thread which highlights WoW's method to combat bots. If that was simply stuffed into one single thread, no serious discussion would have taken place. People wouldn't have been bothered to look and discover that such is possible.

 

Not everyone is unhappy, many simply have chosen to take a more vocal stand against them by bashing the threads that are created. You don't see the people as being the problem though, basically their actions are being justified because there are other topics which are bot-related. I think it's an easy way out and missing the bigger picture. More topics should be welcomed, not compressed.

 

But anyway there's little reason I see to bother voicing against things, polling has already swayed to show the favourite.

 

Personally I think this should have been discussed before adding a poll.

[Kimberly]

Looking at those threads you've merely highlighted alone, I can't imagine how people would be expected to actively discuss such topics in the one thread.

 

It has since worked fine in the F2P General Discussion thread, the 200M in all skills? thread, 3rd Age/Spirit shields/Phats Discussion thread, the Post all RS Screenshots, Videos, and Sounds here!, and so on.

 

These threads aren't actually causing a disturbance, people are simply choosing to take a much greater notice and become far more hostile towards them.

 

All the more reason to trial a central place to discuss it and see if the community is more receptive to it. Because isn't the hostility and the posts that toe the line for removal more damaging to discussion, in the end? Personally I think it is.

 

I'm enjoying the board with them, just as much as I would have without them. Actually, probably even more now. Because there's a wide range of people who are interested in the vast amount of things to discuss, many who pose interesting opinions... Take, for example the thread which highlights WoW's method to combat bots. If that was simply stuffed into one single thread, no serious discussion would have taken place. People wouldn't have been bothered to look and discover that such is possible.

 

That's simply untrue, and proven as such by the previous examples listed. There is a historical precedence to support at least trying this. And if it does start to hamper discussion, there are two large chunks of time to compare it to (ie a month before the condensing, and a month after condensing) to see if there has been any decline in deep discussion.

 

I think it's an easy way out and missing the bigger picture. More topics should be welcomed, not compressed.

 

I don't see the activity of General Discussion decreasing at all as a result of trying anything different to how we are now. But if there was, that again is easy to see and all the more reason to revert such a change if need be. I personally don't see it as a lazy way, easy way, or anything of the sort...just an attempt to see what the community wants in order to make it the best place it can be.

 

Personally I think this should have been discussed before adding a poll.

 

A poll is not a concrete 100% decider for what action will be taken. Like this discussion, it's simply another piece of information to help the staff weigh in on a decision. And a detailed discussion, such as the one we're having now, is (in my eyes) x10 more valuable and has a greater impact on decisions than simple numbers alone.

 

I REALLY hope that people aren't avoiding discussion because they feel the outcome is already definite! That's certainly not the case. The more people who post, the better in this case!

[The Observer]

Try and combine threads related to their issues. eg. The economic part of bots while the other thread can discuss things like the lack of work towards bots or something.

 

Creating a sticky is the worst thing to do imo. All it does is make it go unnoticed and makes the discussion sort of limited.

 

There's not enough activity for it to be a subforum and the activity would be shifted away from General Discussion. Botting is just the next big thing to talk about - just like the GE or anything else.

[Carl]

To save myself some extra work, my replies are bolded underneath yours.

 

Looking at those threads you've merely highlighted alone, I can't imagine how people would be expected to actively discuss such topics in the one thread.

 

It has since worked fine in the F2P General Discussion thread, the 200M in all skills? thread, 3rd Age/Spirit shields/Phats Discussion thread, the Post all RS Screenshots, Videos, and Sounds here!, and so on.

 

Pictures Thread: Yes, of course it works fine. Because people creating one thread for every picture is absurd. Likewise with posting a thread for every Video, and Sound.

 

F2P General Discussion, if I remember rightly (And now after taking a peak at the opening page), wasn't created to compact the threads related to it under one heading, but simply to invite more people to discussion. That's because largely many other threads are P2p.

 

200M in all skills is the same - Likewise with the above, was created to generate discussion on the possibilities of said topic. That's what they've done, and that has been largely maintained and revolved around that?

 

Rare item discussion thread...That goes along the same line. That was created so people could keep up tabs on "Hot items" (Taken from the original post itself). That's basically what has happened. It's on-going because those items are still hot.

 

For those threads, content has largely focused around the main topic. Not swaying very far. But from what has been proposed...That's taking a broad range of topics revolving around the one large topic, throwing them into the one and expecting people to discuss them in a civilised manner. It really is a completely different situation.

These threads aren't actually causing a disturbance, people are simply choosing to take a much greater notice and become far more hostile towards them.

 

All the more reason to trial a central place to discuss it and see if the community is more receptive to it. Because isn't the hostility and the posts that toe the line for removal more damaging to discussion, in the end? Personally I think it is.

 

Yes, you are right...But those actually wanting to discuss it shouldn't have an object put in their way because others choose to be hostile. Them people have to expect not to be let away scott-free and be more mature. I don't think this is a real solution.

 

I'm enjoying the board with them, just as much as I would have without them. Actually, probably even more now. Because there's a wide range of people who are interested in the vast amount of things to discuss, many who pose interesting opinions... Take, for example the thread which highlights WoW's method to combat bots. If that was simply stuffed into one single thread, no serious discussion would have taken place. People wouldn't have been bothered to look and discover that such is possible.

 

That's simply untrue, and proven as such by the previous examples listed. There is a historical precedence to support at least trying this. And if it does start to hamper discussion, there are two large chunks of time to compare it to (ie a month before the condensing, and a month after condensing) to see if there has been any decline in deep discussion.

 

The previous examples listed will never change...People are going to continue debating over item prices, who's going to be first to max, etc. And in those threads there's pages upon pages to support that.

 

I think it's an easy way out and missing the bigger picture. More topics should be welcomed, not compressed.

 

I don't see the activity of General Discussion decreasing at all as a result of trying anything different to how we are now. But if there was, that again is easy to see and all the more reason to revert such a change if need be. I personally don't see it as a lazy way, easy way, or anything of the sort...just an attempt to see what the community wants in order to make it the best place it can be.

 

In reality, activity has decreased. I don't know whether or not I've changed some settings which changed how many topics on a page...But I'm seeing threads from over 10 days ago on the front page. Before it was very active. The whole point of what you (Not you personally) are trying to do is to stop what people will call "Legitimate" threads being pushed off the front page. If they go to the second page, that means people are finished discussing them.

 

Personally I think this should have been discussed before adding a poll.

 

A poll is not a concrete 100% decider for what action will be taken. Like this discussion, it's simply another piece of information to help the staff weigh in on a decision. And a detailed discussion, such as the one we're having now, is (in my eyes) x10 more valuable and has a greater impact on decisions than simple numbers alone.

 

Yes I agree, it is not a concrete decider but simply having those numbers displayed is going to deter people from voicing their own opinions; for or against.

[Ginger_Warrior]

I know it's not relevant here but as a sidenote I've never really got Tip.It's fascination with stickies. In other forums I go on, both in the gaming world and out, stickies are used as a kind of 'board announcement' for new, official information or important topics.

 

Poplular threads, like the relationships/RL pictures threads in OT would be left to fight for themselves in another forum. Like I said this isn't really important to this issue but just a comment about sticky threads in general.

[Danqazmlp]

I know it's not relevant here but as a sidenote I've never really got Tip.It's fascination with stickies. In other forums I go on, both in the gaming world and out, stickies are used as a kind of 'board announcement' for new, official information or important topics.

 

Poplular threads, like the relationships/RL pictures threads in OT would be left to fight for themselves in another forum. Like I said this isn't really important to this issue but just a comment about sticky threads in general.

 

I do agree. I also have the same feeling for sub-forums. I like the look of a healthy-fast main forum than two, sub-healthy looking forums. Although that is a discussion for another topic, I believe most stickies could be done without and simply liked to in the case of duplicate threads by those who haven't used the search function.

[Kata_Phfract__the_slayer]

one or 2 big threads. stuff the small ones.

 

the only problem is that it would be a total (flame)war zone.

[Scotaidh]

Personally, I no longer waste my time "discussing" Macro Users. It is what it is, and that is that. I tend to overlook any threads related to "bot talk" as I have just grown too dang tired of talking about a matter that Jagex seems oblivious to rectify (imo only).

 

So, I say one or two major threads and can all the small ones.

[lordkafei]

One or two threads should really be enough. Probably should be stickied to prevent the boards resident wiseasses from complaining about thread necromancy.

 

Please, not another subforum.

[jjjon123]

PLEASE MAKE A BOT STICKY FOR RANTS, if the bot thread in GD is a rant and not a dicussion then lock and redirect op to rant bot

 

Good GD Thread ---> Keep in GD

"Bots and the economy"

"how do you think that the whole of the economy because ive noticed..."

 

 

Bad/Rant GD Thread ---> lock and redirect op to rants

"Bots effecting frosts"

"i was in frosts the other day and THERE ARE SO MANY BOTS... (rant) ...so how do you think bots effect prayer discuss"

[tripsis]

PLEASE MAKE A BOT STICKY FOR RANTS

http://forum.tip.it/topic/293774-bots-bots-bots-and-why-they-make-me-rage/ :P

[Dire_Wolf]

I vote a sub forum because it¨s more fun to read topics relating to Botting that interests you.

[Nifflin]

Need to get rid of all of them, they are a leech on actual meaningful discussion.

 

What purpose do bot threads serve.

 

Sticky in rants.

[rsp]

Feedback: Bot Threads in General Discussion

 

Just my 2 cents:

1) threads discussing how to "find / recognize / kill / otherwise hamper" bots are a good thing. Those don't have to be in their own sub-forum.

2) threads discussing the value of bots trying to convince people bots are not a bad thing, should not be allowed anywhere!

[Ginger_Warrior]

They serve the same purpose every other thread on GD serves: to discuss. Even if we're all united in thinking bots are a bad thing we can still discuss why they are there, what effect they have on us and what could be done to challenge them.

 

There are those who say botting isn't bad. To them, I say I disagree, but your opinions make the forum all that more diverse and interesting.

[Alphanos]

I think it's somewhat bizarre to hold a "vote" on the subject. Every time that such topics are posted, the forum members who read General Discussion have a vote on the topic based on its merits. Good topics get replies, bad topics die out. There's little need for a special vote; the forum software and user activity automatically handles this problem for everyone.

[tripsis]

I think it's somewhat bizarre to hold a "vote" on the subject. Every time that such topics are posted, the forum members who read General Discussion have a vote on the topic based on its merits. Good topics get replies, bad topics die out. There's little need for a special vote; the forum software and user activity automatically handles this problem for everyone.

Unfortunately bad topics don't just "die out" :( Topics that people dislike tend to get spammed with rude and/or pointless comments, which is not only against our rules but annoying and even hurtful for the topic creator. I think we understood that something needed to be done, but decided to give the community a say :)