Refer a Friend Programme - 18 Aug 2011

[Crossed_Body]

Well, if I were working for jagex, I would want to get paid more than $30,000 a year, for one. For two, I can't even come up with an idea for stopping the bots, let alone one that actually works. 40 people? Maybe. But not likely. Bots are incredibly difficult to detect automatically, because I wouldn't want to ban legitimate players either. In game bot busting is effective on a small scale, but they cannot afford to pay people to bot bust 24/7, and even if they could it would still be very improbable to hit every area of the game.

Paying them to be online all day cicling worlds banning bots would be more efficient than what they have now. Money well spent.

[Kimberly]

Paying them to be online all day cicling worlds banning bots would be more efficient than what they have now. Money well spent.

 

I always have to wonder if posts like this are more to vent frustration than present alternatives because clearly if they could properly ban people (without them hopping onto another mule) this would work. But it doesn't.

[Crossed_Body]

I always have to wonder if posts like this are more to vent frustration than present alternatives because clearly if they could properly ban people (without them hopping onto another mule) this would work. But it doesn't.

It's a viable solution to drastically reduce botting in high level areas like frost dragons. The gp/h loss is enormous, and building up the stats to get there again takes a long time. If they know that they'll get systematically banned in those areas, they'll stop trying and wasting their resources.

[I_am_Geed]

Most of the bots use stolen credit cards

Prove it. Because my experience tells me otherwise, and I see no reason to believe your statement. If they were using stolen credit cards, most of them would be banned already.

A friend of mine had money issues with Jagex before, and they are not light on the banhammer when they see you have some issue paying.

 

Some of the suicide sweatshop bots use stolen credit cards.

 

But what about the fat lazy kids who cant be bothered to sit in front of the computer for even an hour a day to work on grinding skills? They money comes out of their own pockets. And thats where the macro bot suppliers are making it big.

[Kimberly]

I always have to wonder if posts like this are more to vent frustration than present alternatives because clearly if they could properly ban people (without them hopping onto another mule) this would work. But it doesn't.

It's a viable solution to drastically reduce botting in high level areas like frost dragons. The gp/h loss is enormous, and building up the stats to get there again takes a long time. If they know that they'll get systematically banned in those areas, they'll stop trying and wasting their resources.

 

Implementing a solution that wouldn't even 'fix' 2% of the game's content when the problem spans at least 70% of the game's available content is not viable. 10 bucks says more legit players would be banned than not. So congratulations: not only would you have no bots in Frosts, but you'd have no legit players either! Because clearly they can't tell the difference from human inputs and bots, or the problem would be solved already.

[Crossed_Body]

Implementing a solution that wouldn't even 'fix' 2% of the game's content when the problem spans at least 70% of the game's available content is not viable. 10 bucks says more legit players would be banned than not. So congratulations: not only would you have no bots in Frosts, but you'd have no legit players either! Because clearly they can't tell the difference from human inputs and bots, or the problem would be solved already.

Jagex obviously can't get rid of it all. And getting rid of some of it is better than getting rid of none of all.

[Platinum_Myr]

I always have to wonder if posts like this are more to vent frustration than present alternatives because clearly if they could properly ban people (without them hopping onto another mule) this would work. But it doesn't.

It's a viable solution to drastically reduce botting in high level areas like frost dragons. The gp/h loss is enormous, and building up the stats to get there again takes a long time. If they know that they'll get systematically banned in those areas, they'll stop trying and wasting their resources.

 

Implementing a solution that wouldn't even 'fix' 2% of the game's content when the problem spans at least 70% of the game's available content is not viable. 10 bucks says more legit players would be banned than not. So congratulations: not only would you have no bots in Frosts, but you'd have no legit players either! Because clearly they can't tell the difference from human inputs and bots, or the problem would be solved already.

 

A human mod could more easily tell the difference between bots and players. Not perfectly, but more easily. A bot is less likely to respond in a non-cheasy way. A bot can still respond, but even private off, a mod could be heard by all players (ignore that status, since they're a mod).

 

But it isn't a great solution, because the employee doesn't want to do this. (That's the real issue...) We make the employment into a worse grind than playing runescape!

[The Observer]

Botting Frost Dragons for ~10-15 hours is enough to but a month of membership, why would they need to steal credit cards any more?

 

There are many businesses that are competing so you would be surprised at the number of them that would use them. The more popular ones probably won't because they make enough business to sell the gold that they have gotten.

 

Even though it is a small amount, it does act as a weight in the profits of Jagex. Not only do they have to refund, but on many occasions they are fined for using the stolen credit card, so it's not a simple case of just refunding.

[Defy]

Most of the bots use stolen credit cards

Prove it. Because my experience tells me otherwise, and I see no reason to believe your statement. If they were using stolen credit cards, most of them would be banned already.

A friend of mine had money issues with Jagex before, and they are not light on the banhammer when they see you have some issue paying.

 

Some of the suicide sweatshop bots use stolen credit cards.

 

But what about the fat lazy kids who cant be bothered to sit in front of the computer for even an hour a day to work on grinding skills? They money comes out of their own pockets. And thats where the macro bot suppliers are making it big.

 

 

I dont get your statement at all..

 

You say the fat lazy kids are the ones that bot and go out and do stuff, wouldnt it be the fat lazy kids who sit on runescape all day clicking... lol i mean seriously..

[Platinum_Myr]

I dont get your statement at all..

 

You say the fat lazy kids are the ones that bot and go out and do stuff, wouldnt it be the fat lazy kids who sit on runescape all day clicking... lol i mean seriously..

 

QFT

 

Yeah probably, it is the people who have a "real" life *gasp* who are likely to bot for levels and the people who are just into/out of college who have spare change who are likely to buy gold.

[Bxpprod]

Botting. Botting botting botting.

 

IS MY POST DOING IT RIGHT?

 

 

As for the people who are opposed to the refer a friend programme and the sale on membership on the grounds they are penny pinching, what is going to keep you happy? It is wrong for Jagex to posture itself in the market using sales and gimmicks to attract customers, but are you opposed to other companies using similar tactics?

 

I hope you are all raging about McDonalds continual use of such tactics with its free toys with happy meals!

 

No, you're right. Jagex is the bad guy here. No other company has ever used marketing to attract people.

 

inb4b7fortrolling

[Hedgehog]

My problem with it is that legit players don't really care about saving $10/year. The only people that it really helps is the bot companies. Honestly, it's not that big of a deal, but it's just another thing to add to the pile.

[Omali]

I think this time around gold farmers will refrain from using stolen credit cards. Remember the lengths Jagex was willing to go through to stop mass-membership-bots using stolen cards, because of the ramifications of their bank refusing to process credit cards due to the high level of chargebacks (yes, this is a real factor, look it up). If gold farmers use stolen credit cards, they risk losing their market almost entirely and going back to the old ways of 75k every 15 minutes. So they'll keep it as legit as possible, although some will still use stolen cards, because they don't want to sweep the rug out from below their own feet in the long run.

[Bxpprod]

My problem with it is that legit players don't really care about saving $10/year. The only people that it really helps is the bot companies. Honestly, it's not that big of a deal, but it's just another thing to add to the pile.

 

Legit players don't really care about saving $10/year? [citation needed]

[Deathknell]

Botting. Botting botting botting.

 

IS MY POST DOING IT RIGHT?

 

 

 

 

As for the people who are opposed to the refer a friend programme and the sale on membership on the grounds they are penny pinching, what is going to keep you happy? It is wrong for Jagex to posture itself in the market using sales and gimmicks to attract customers, but are you opposed to other companies using similar tactics?

 

I hope you are all raging about McDonalds continual use of such tactics with its free toys with happy meals!

 

No, you're right. Jagex is the bad guy here. No other company has ever used marketing to attract people.

 

inb4b7fortrolling

 

While me and others were critical of Jagex, we still thought them above such activites to drive up their membership. We are upset over them using such ploys that should be, frankly, beneath them.

 

Perhaps I am naive for thinking they are better than they really are, but it still pains me to watch it.

[Hedgehog]

My problem with it is that legit players don't really care about saving $10/year. The only people that it really helps is the bot companies. Honestly, it's not that big of a deal, but it's just another thing to add to the pile.

 

Legit players don't really care about saving $10/year? [citation needed]

I'm tired and don't know what I'm saying. Ignore me.

[Bxpprod]

[hide]

Botting. Botting botting botting.

 

IS MY POST DOING IT RIGHT?

 

 

 

 

As for the people who are opposed to the refer a friend programme and the sale on membership on the grounds they are penny pinching, what is going to keep you happy? It is wrong for Jagex to posture itself in the market using sales and gimmicks to attract customers, but are you opposed to other companies using similar tactics?

 

I hope you are all raging about McDonalds continual use of such tactics with its free toys with happy meals!

 

No, you're right. Jagex is the bad guy here. No other company has ever used marketing to attract people.

 

inb4b7fortrolling

[/hide]

While me and others were critical of Jagex, we still thought them above such activites to drive up their membership. We are upset over them using such ploys that should be, frankly, beneath them.

 

Perhaps I am naive for thinking they are better than they really are, but it still pains me to watch it.

 

It's a BUSINESS. Sales happen ALL THE TIME.

Stores use incentives to increase purchases ALL THE TIME.

 

At the end of the day, profit is the highest priority.

 

Why is this business any different? Unless you are out being hypercritical of any store using sales or gimmicks, I wonder what makes you draw a line in the sand here and say "Jagex is bad for doing it, but the others aren't".

[Jehosaphat]

[hide]

Botting. Botting botting botting.

 

IS MY POST DOING IT RIGHT?

 

 

 

 

As for the people who are opposed to the refer a friend programme and the sale on membership on the grounds they are penny pinching, what is going to keep you happy? It is wrong for Jagex to posture itself in the market using sales and gimmicks to attract customers, but are you opposed to other companies using similar tactics?

 

I hope you are all raging about McDonalds continual use of such tactics with its free toys with happy meals!

 

No, you're right. Jagex is the bad guy here. No other company has ever used marketing to attract people.

 

inb4b7fortrolling

[/hide]

While me and others were critical of Jagex, we still thought them above such activites to drive up their membership. We are upset over them using such ploys that should be, frankly, beneath them.

 

Perhaps I am naive for thinking they are better than they really are, but it still pains me to watch it.

 

It's a BUSINESS. Sales happen ALL THE TIME.

Stores use incentives to increase purchases ALL THE TIME.

 

At the end of the day, profit is the highest priority.

 

Why is this business any different? Unless you are out being hypercritical of any store using sales or gimmicks, I wonder what makes you draw a line in the sand here and say "Jagex is bad for doing it, but the others aren't".

They used to put their game and their standards before their profits. Now they put their profits before their game and their standards, and we are disappointed because of it.

 

And yes, Jagex is bad for doing it and the other companies aren't, because other companies usually don't state that they will never ever do that sort of stuff and then do it 10 years later just because of a shift in management.

[Bxpprod]

They used to put their game and their standards before their profits. Now they put their profits before their game and their standards, and we are disappointed because of it.

 

Now it is run and owned by different people, with different motives. The Gower brothers no longer control the company which fostered their games, and while I can't speak for the motives they had, I'd say a strong one was to see their game being enjoyed by others. Now, with new controllers, Jagex is a profit center, with the primary motive of returning PROFITS to the shareholders. Be disappointed all you want, it's BUSINESS.

 

And yes, Jagex is bad for doing it and the other companies aren't, because other companies usually don't state that they will never ever do that sort of stuff and then do it 10 years later just because of a shift in management.

 

10 years. Change of leadership. Change in motives. Change in goals.

If you honestly believe that no other business has done this before, that is a tad naive. Why would new owners be bound by promises made 10 years ago by previous owners, in a different environment than exists now?

[Star_Fox]

They used to put their game and their standards before their profits. Now they put their profits before their game and their standards, and we are disappointed because of it.

 

Now it is run and owned by different people, with different motives. The Gower brothers no longer control the company which fostered their games, and while I can't speak for the motives they had, I'd say a strong one was to see their game being enjoyed by others. Now, with new controllers, Jagex is a profit center, with the primary motive of returning PROFITS to the shareholders. Be disappointed all you want, it's BUSINESS.

 

And yes, Jagex is bad for doing it and the other companies aren't, because other companies usually don't state that they will never ever do that sort of stuff and then do it 10 years later just because of a shift in management.

 

10 years. Change of leadership. Change in motives. Change in goals.

If you honestly believe that no other business has done this before, that is a tad naive. Why would new owners be bound by promises made 10 years ago by previous owners, in a different environment than exists now?

 

Jagex is a business. WE GET IT. Increasing their sales is what they're supposed to do. WE KNOW. But a game is supposed to be played for fun. To relax and solace the joy in training and battling other players. Most of us pay for Runescape because of that reason. We as paying customers HAVE A SAY in what we appreciate and what we don't. It's not something to be ignored. No. It's something every company should NOT take it for granted. If it wasn't for US paying for their business, they would have absolutely no control over the game. So therefore, they should listen to us and help us to give back what we payed for. Period.

 

It reminds of this situation where a couple raises a boy name Chris, who grows up and eventually ignores his parents because he became successful with his life

and doesn't need his parents anymore. He has billions of dollars, a nice home, car, kids, everything. All that wealth spoiled his mind and forgot

the people who helped him in the first place in his time of need. As you can see, Jagex is the epitome of Chris, who is successful, yet nobody likes

him because he became notorious for not helping out his parents. Now, can you be honest and tell me who in what world would like Chris?

[RoswellCrash]

I just feel that everything these days in society is trend orientated, at current the trend is to hate everything Jagex do & the masses are falling for it.

 

The bot problem is an issue, but everything else is pathetic, "OMG Jgaex released new content for members, that's rwt because you have to pay to use it"..

(As I said pathetic)

[Bxpprod]

Jagex is a business. WE GET IT. Increasing their sales is what they're supposed to do. WE KNOW. But a game is supposed to be played for fun. To relax and solace the joy in training and battling other players. Most of us pay for Runescape because of that reason. We as paying customers HAVE A SAY in what we appreciate and what we don't. It's not something to be ignored. No. It's something every company should NOT take it for granted. If it wasn't for US paying for their business, they would have absolutely no control over the game. So therefore, they should listen to us and help us to give back what we payed for. Period.

 

You're right, we do have a say. Our say, is either we pay or we don't. You don't like the direction the game is taking, stop paying. Outside of that, the only people who truly have a say is the people in charge. I agree customers should not be taken for granted, but again, how do we suggest pleasing everyone? Personalised updates?

 

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but your last sentence screams "the good old days". It seems that the problem is simply that the game has changed and isn't the way it was before. I'm sorry, but things change. Games change. Deal with it.

 

It reminds of this situation where a couple raises a boy name Chris, who grows up and eventually ignores his parents because he became successful with his life

and doesn't need his parents anymore. He has billions of dollars, a nice home, car, kids, everything. All that wealth spoiled his mind and forgot

the people who helped him in the first place in his time of need. As you can see, Jagex is the epitome of Chris, who is successful, yet nobody likes

him because he became notorious for not helping out his parents. Now, can you be honest and tell me who in what world would like Chris?

 

You don't have to like the company. You are playing the game for enjoyment, not doing something to enjoy the company.

[RoswellCrash]

It reminds of this situation where a couple raises a boy name Chris, who grows up and eventually ignores his parents because he became successful with his life

and doesn't need his parents anymore. He has billions of dollars, a nice home, car, kids, everything. All that wealth spoiled his mind and forgot

the people who helped him in the first place in his time of need. As you can see, Jagex is the epitome of Chris, who is successful, yet nobody likes

him because he became notorious for not helping out his parents. Now, can you be honest and tell me who in what world would like Chris?

 

I see 164,894 people currently on-line that like him.

 

(Yes I know 90.9imadethisup000202% of them are bots.. :roll: )

[BloodAngel]

It reminds of this situation where a couple raises a boy name Chris, who grows up and eventually ignores his parents because he became successful with his life

and doesn't need his parents anymore. He has billions of dollars, a nice home, car, kids, everything. All that wealth spoiled his mind and forgot

the people who helped him in the first place in his time of need. As you can see, Jagex is the epitome of Chris, who is successful, yet nobody likes

him because he became notorious for not helping out his parents. Now, can you be honest and tell me who in what world would like Chris?

 

I see 164,894 people currently on-line that like him.

 

(Yes I know 90.9imadethisup000202% of them are bots.. :roll: )

 

You don't have to like Jagex to enjoy playing Runescape :P

[RoswellCrash]

You don't have to like Jagex to enjoy playing Runescape :P

 

This is true, but it's because they are not enjoying parts of the game they are complaining about Jagex.

 

I'm not sure if I like Jagex anymore :unsure:

They seem to twist my words.

 

I like their work, just not them (the mean ones)