Refer a Friend Programme - 18 Aug 2011

[258ForLife]

I hope that this gets REMOVED :shame:

 

Game items must only be exchanged for other items/services within the game. Exchanging game items for items or other benefits in other online games, real-life money or other real-life benefits is not allowed.

 

RWT ^

[Deathknell]

I hope that this gets REMOVED :shame:

 

Game items must only be exchanged for other items/services within the game. Exchanging game items for items or other benefits in other online games, real-life money or other real-life benefits is not allowed.

 

RWT ^

 

Does that mean I can't flash my boobs for gp anymore? :eek: :cry: :mad: :rolleyes:

 

It's funny though. They removed Romeo and Juliet because they didn't want to send the wrong message to new players. What kind of message 80% of the avatars on any given world using some type of bot send? <_<

[RU_Insane]

@geekguy: A few points.

 

If the shareholders were so aware of the player base in the first place, why would they assume that the players were going to accept these changes which go against the overall RS philosophy? I highly doubt these shareholders have been playing or spend their time in RS forums...considering how out of touch Jagex appears to be (or pretends to be, I have no idea), if their shareholders knew more about the problem than them, you would think they would have brought up these issues already.

 

That's a valid point. I don't think the investors anticipated the RAF update to be well-received by the player-base. I think they did it simply to increase the monetary value of the game when they eventually re-sell their shares; public reception is irrelevant to their profits. Concerning the release of botting info, I wrote from the perspective that the investors were already aware of the problem, albeit in accordance to what Mod Mat K said, they'd been quiet with the specifics of the problem. I suppose the question here is, when is the right-time for Jagex to divulge such information if they do know more than us? Let's assume Jagex is concerned (whatever concern is left) with us.

 

It'd make sense for them to release that data if they truly knew more than us about the issue. In terms of #s of bots, I think that information could be released without any undesirable consequences. So why haven't they done this already? I couldn't tell you. Regards the development of anti-cheating software, perhaps Jagex chooses to withhold this information because they rightly fear that cheaters will find a way to circumvent those efforts if such data is publicly released. Consequently, Jagex feels now isn't the right time because they don't wish for the systems they're presumably working on to be sabotaged by the cheaters it would target.

 

So that's the most feasible (speculative) explanation I can offer you as to why Jagex hasn't released info despite supposedly being aware of the problem.

 

Also, I'd like to note that in times of war, countries have been typically favorable towards lying to their citizens when it comes to numbers in order to preserve their reputations, as ineffective as it has been.

 

Tested and true by history. I won't deny the possibility that Jagex could be lying to its players, but given exactly what they've said ("we can't tell you to prove X because of Y"), it's uncertain to qualify this outcome. I'll admit it's even likely that they're lying. But by how I weighted the possibilities given what I know (for example, I mentioned Jagex has to pay CC charge-back fees for memberships bought by stolen credit cards), I hope for the sake of RS, that they aren't lying.

 

I admit, if there's no evidence that Jagex is paying those specific fees to a significant degree, I see no reason why they'd lose out on bot memberships, since then revenue would exceed expenses from those subscriptions. It's completely possible that they're aware of the problem, but the profits from bot subscriptions well outweigh the issues for them to do anything about it.

 

This is why I said in order to qualify an outcome, we'd need more data released in regards to their expenses to see if they're profiting from bots or not. Again, it could be the case that they are profiting but are keeping hush-hush about their revenue, in order to not enrage the player-base even more (and tacitly preserve whatever reputation they have left).

 

Historically, Jagex isn't willing to set the record straight with us, and hasn't been until it is too late to do anything about it. They prefer to use filler messages which state that they are doing something and have a multi-faceted strategy, but clearly from the outset they have been pursuing the wrong angle, and have been for YEEEEEARRRRSSS-okay you get the idea. And a game year represents a huge part of a game's lifespan! At this point I don't think they would be willing to consider an alternate solution without another pivotal event in their midst.

 

I'll concede Jagex is quite incompetent at dealing with problems, even in light of them saying they are pursuing solutions. It seems to me the only events that could effectively deal with the problem we're facing at this point in time are ones of a pivotal (read: controversial) nature. I agree. But at any point in time, some sort of action would have to be taken assuming Jagex is proactive about cheaters. What's to say action taken earlier wouldn't be as controversial, as pivotal?

 

If they're looking to kill a potential issue permanently, it's not unreasonable to assume that the action taken would be quite drastic at any point in time. I agree that they should be open to their best extent about the problems both we and they face. This transparency isn't always feasible however, which I'll elaborate on soon. They should also pursue effective solutions to a potentially serious problem when it's first apparent. But even if they had both those criteria filled, I'm sure the end result -- the solution to the problem -- would be quite pivotal.

 

Placing your statements in a wider context, I suppose you mean Jagex is currently doing what it's done before -- simply giving the public what it wants to hear without having any real solution up their sleeve. But given that same content of that message ("We can't tell you what we're doing"), it's possible the information regards anti-cheating is sensitive and they don't wish to compromise it by releasing it before its due date.

 

Interestingly, when I read your first sentence in the quote above, I keep thinking about the December 2007 updates. Botting was certainly extreme by that point in time, and the solution they implemented was equally consequential. I recall they had conceptualized those updates for quite some time before implementation. Before that time, the tactic of mass bot banning was common-place, but only proved to be temporarily effective. I think for Jagex at that time, it was quite a strain on their finances to house gold-farmers and such, because of the stolen credit cards and associated fees.

 

I'm not so surprised that they took so long to implement such updates. We only get a clear sense of the path to take when we realize how large the problem we face is. I don't blame Jagex for not taking such steps initially, since they were informed quite late into the issue (mid 2006?) that they'd have to shut down RuneScape if extreme action was not taken. Between that time and December 2007, they had 1.5 years to carefully examine the mechanics of the game and propose, design, and implement ways to stall RWT according to these mechanics.

 

The least they could do was introduce these updates as quickly as possible because it was clear banning the bots was no longer an effective solution; the problem ran deeper than that. The presence of bots was a symptom of the true cause of RuneScape's illness in that era, and treating the symptom does not cure the disease. Essentially, Jagex initially operated under the assumption that banning the cheaters would be an effective enough solution (and keep in mind this went on for a long time). When it became clear to them it was not, they were pressured to quickly find a deeper answer.

 

So I think it was a learning process for Jagex and the players. Keep in mind we didn't know about the fees Jagex was paying until they told us. Not even Jagex itself was aware of the stolen credit cards until the associated banks told them. How many players were still furious with Jagex even after they disclosed the gravity of the situation?

 

Historically, although Jagex took time to find an appropriate (yet controversial) solution, it was also because they took the time to learn. Jagex also warned players of these impending updates and noted that they'd take a grave stance against RWT. Did they specify on what exactly they'd do? No. That was left for public speculation. Is it any surprise, then, that players were shocked when the updates finally happened, and some doubters smacked their heads and went "Wow, they were serious!"?

 

We judge the effectiveness of a solution partly on what we know about the depth of the problem it combats. So when you assert that they "pursued the wrong angle", that's true, they did. But it took time for anyone to conceptualize a more effective solution for this. Yes, one could pretend to be wise and wistfully respond, "That is not the solution", in that airy tone of assurance, as if he possessed privileged knowledge, but his claims are paltry if he cannot supply an answer beyond that.

 

And who could? No one except for Jagex knew the path they were going to take and they were keeping it quiet because they know they'd garner disapproval from the player-base. And y'know what'd they would suggest in response to that as part of their criticism? "Change it, are you insane, Jagex?!"

 

When it's apparent one solution has become ineffective, its takes time to search for another. Thus, that a considerable amount of time lapses in-between finding solutions, isn't a reliable indicator of reluctance or unawareness of the problem. Likewise, for reasons I hope are self-evident, reluctance to disclose any defining detail of what goes on behind the scenes isn't a reliable indicator of a non-existent solution. So, why do we assume we know more than Jagex simply based on what's superficially apparent? The reasoning is so shallow.

 

Even bearing these principles in mind, the current case warrants closer scrutiny. Jagex now has experience not in recognizing problems (problems are always obvious, what isn't are the solutions to them), but proposing effective solutions to them. That being said, I find it hard to believe Jagex is unaware of the extent of the problem, since given the 2007 updates they'd likely more closely scrutinize where their sources of revenue come from, which is something many skeptical players are quick to point out that bots are purposely kept because Jagex is profiting off of them. Of course, if you have income, you naturally also have expenses. So what's to say you aren't losing money after you deduct your totals?

 

The problem is that the statement has little evidence to corroborate it, and as such, begs the question in its premise. Namely, proponents of this skepticism are asserting that Jagex is profiting off of bots because they keep them in-game, therefore, they must be profiting off of bots. You are asserting the very thing you're trying to prove!

 

There's no way to know for sure if the claim is true, so you cannot claim it to be true in the first place. There's nothing more I can say for this claim except that it's easy for one to invent a multiplicity of logically unsubstantiated answers to a question in order to satiate a pleading psychological desire for relevant meaning as a way to rationalize one's own disillusionment. I find it to be a heavy-handed and idiotic tactic that warrants no attention to be relegated to it.

 

In summary, honesty takes a back-seat when it's clear the player-base will be dissatisfied with any proposal they claim Jagex has a right to inform them about. This of course is a ludicrous claim. This does not, however, mean that Jagex is exempt from any sort of criticism. The passage of time to an arbitrarily designated point described as "too late" is inconsequential in finding an effective answer to a persistent issue. We cannot even begin to differentiate between a "right step" and a "wrong step" until we are in sufficient possession of the facts, which we are not, presumably for a good reason (I base this presumption on precedent).

 

Since we have a major precedent for this, I think it's safe to assume Jagex isn't unaware or reluctant to fix the problem. Of course when we aren't in full possession of the facts, we jump to erroneous conclusions based on fallacious reasoning based on what's superficially apparent, as I've demonstrated with the "profit from bots" claim.

 

The most effective solutions will be ones that are pivotal in their effects, so I disagree with saying that Jagex is limited in their solutions. I also disagree with saying they ran out of solutions when the problem is at its most extreme, again because we naturally aren't in full possession of the facts. Perhaps this lack of information could be attributed to Jagex's reluctance to disclosure. Even so, there's nothing that could prompt such dissemination of data considering it's likely sensitive and as I previously stated, Jagex doesn't want any possible existing efforts to be compromised by early release of this information simply because players feel entitled to it.

 

I think regards release of information, players deserve from Jagex proof that they're incurring significant losses from bots, again to stifle those who assert the contrary based on what's superficially apparent. I think players deserve proof that Jagex currently owns and operates a macro-software detection system, and that it's capable of detecting third-party software users on the level Jagex claims it does, and that it has caught a significant number of cheating users as Jagex claims it has. Of course, the release of information pertaining to either of those issues automatically disproves the perception that Jagex is ignorant of the extent of the problem.

 

Excuse me for being so lengthy so far. :P

 

 

While this fear is baseless on a reasonable level, investors as a whole can be the least reasonable people at all. When Nintendo publicly apologized for poor sales and their execs took a paycut, their stock continues to perform poorly, and overall perception did not improve. Without a clear solution to the problem, most remain unconvinced of their future performance. Jagex clearly considers this issue to be "in-house", so why would they get shareholders involved if they do not consider them to be pertinent to the issue?

 

That's a good point. I'll should clarify my statement then. It's true that stock-holders are inconsequential when the issue lays with the game itself, if I'm understanding what you're saying. They wouldn't get physically involved, rather it might be a concern among them that perhaps subscriptions could drop a considerable number if Jagex were to publish the numbers, which we agree is a baseless concern on a logical level. This is because if players are so certain that they're more cognizant of the depths of problem than Jagex, it would come as no surprise if Jagex confirms it. Many would lose interest simply seeing the state of the game so the publication of such numbers should hardly have weight on their decision to leave.

 

But you are right...Jagex SHOULD be ashamed for acting like they don't need the help.

 

I don't think it's that, given what I've said above. It's hard to discern Jagex's position on this issue apart from what they've explicitly told us, because they think they have good reasons not to disclose as much information as players think they're entitled to. It's quite a power struggle. :P

 

I don't disagree with the validity of your statement overall. They're certainly acting like they don't need help, whatnot with the limited communication, parroting of canned responses and general stubbornness, but that's not reason alone to shame them (well, okay. The parroting is actually pretty damn shameful. What, do they think we suffer from short-term memory loss?). I think they should be ashamed that they've abandoned their principles about not buying your way to success in the game, along with the flawed methodology they employed in the initial stage of the Wilderness Vote. Come on. No passwords required to cast your vote, and you can even cast the names of banned players. -_-

[langer]

They claim that bots are losing them money... as players, we have witnessed a rise in bots over that last 2 years...

 

I guess the upper management are very lousy at Jagex if they haven't found a lasting solution to a "business problem".

 

In short, they are either very incompetent... or as we probably all know by now, simply lying to us.

 

I don't have any inside info as to how things are going at Jagex, but I'm a pretty good accountant and if the business I work for had spotted a financial problems 2 years ago and that it was not corrected by now, I know I'd have lost my job with the rest of the upper management.

 

I'm sick of the PR spins and seeing my money put to use for updates that are more beneficial to cheaters.

[NukeMarine]

Personally I'm for the update.

 

Yes, it'll be abused by the guy that wants a desperate 10% boost for 5 weeks out of the year and is willing to pay 30 to 40 dollars to get it. Yes, it'll be abused by botters to help level up their mining accounts. Yes, it's likely to create more credit card fraud that supposedly started the move away from free trade though that's likely a non-issue now. And yes, it is a microtransaction in the way members is a microtransaction. Likely there'll be other methods to follow. Yes, it's a cheesy way for Jagex to bolster it's "paying member" numbers after the whole 10 million accounts (or whatever number pulled from lower orifices) meant 9 million throw away free acounts lost steam.

 

Still, it's a referral program and will be legitimate for players that are introducing friends and family. It's legitimate for the player that's starting a secondary account for whatever reason (as stated by Jagex, though I wonder if Jagex is dropping the ban on account interaction. Plus, it's only 10% for a week with a limit of five weeks a year. That's minor in my book.

[strilmus]

I'm not really sure that I've said this before, but it's not the fact that the change will break the game significantly, but the fact that this is a clear cut money for power trade. Before, with the special items that didn't really do anything besides look pretty, it was fine. Hell, even the auras are okay to some extent....because ALL MEMBERS gain access to them on the side at an equal rate based on their time spent in the programme, rather than paying an additional amount to get more points faster (outside of certain stupid loopholes that should have been thought of beforehand, regardless of what you say about hindsight). It basically works like any of the other distractions/diversions in that regard, except in this case there isn't any kind of actual minigame attached.

 

However, now you can pretty much buy this boost with money. It takes additional money to buy this boost, and we aren't really separating the boost users from those who aren't, so it's not the same as the members/f2p split.

 

As much as referral programs (i mean "programmes") are cool, I think they could have easily designed one that would have worked for free and was available to everybody. This would have had more interest to the overall community, been more effective to draw in additional players, and makes more logical sense as a whole. Since people who sign up for membership are those who have actively tried their hand at the game for a certain amount of days that Jagex would most certainly know the average of, once that player stays active for that many days (an active day being one in which a cumulative hour has been spent playing that day), I would have replaced the reward with a free week of membership granted to the sponsor (with a limit of five total per year granted this way), and-wait, forget that part about the cosmetic item. It would probably be more likely for both players to continue being members if both of them got the free week, since they wouldn't want to separate.

 

Nobody gains an ingame advantage over anybody else. More new people enter the game. More people get to try members. More people get hooked.

 

Would it benefit bots? I guess. Would it benefit bots above other players? Not inside the game.

 

But yet, so many are willing to accept the current programmmmmme as the most viable option.

 

However, since it is basically a CHEAP WAY TO BOOST THEIR PAYING MEMBERS NUMBERS WITHOUT ANY REGARD FOR ANY ACTUAL LONGTERM PLAYER INVESTMENT, I think we can see through these claims as the predictable sham that it is. I mean, the new member has to pay within 2 weeks of entering the game, and any benefit to them is largely superficial and not even close to why they would want to play with their friends.

[Stev]

Plus, it's only 10% for a week with a limit of five weeks a year. That's minor in my book.

Only the beginning. Jagex has been releasing and getting away with tons of, "That's minor in my book update." over the last few weeks and months. Each time, pushing their luck a little more and sinking a little lower. Each time not taking the interests and cares of their loyal members into consideration... What few of them are still human.

 

Facebook. Loyalty programme. Katana. Temp bans (for members). Refer-a-friend. On and on and on.

 

Again, only the beginning.

 

Ps. Hello, Eduardo.

[DarkDude]

I don't see anything wrong with people using Facebook to login to RS with. What's wrong with that? Changes absolutely nothing for you, really nothing bad from it at all.

 

All the others I agree are an absolute joke and it seems each time it's getting closer to proper micro-transactions which will kill RuneScape in my opinion.

 

On top of that the updates this year have been terrible with little content actually worthwhile long term. Unless the remaining 4 months of the year have fantastic updates I can see this being the worst year ever in RuneScape history.

[Stev]

What's bad about the Facebook login is that it's a massive security issue.

 

Without Facebook, no where will RuneScape ask, "Save Password?" to shorten logging in. Now, if someone has their Facebook set to automatically log them in or "Remember Me," you can retrieve the stored username and password from their browser. It's incredibly easy to get and decrypt saved passwords into Internet Explorer, Firefox, and Chrome. Programs like MeTuS Delphi (software commonly used to DDoS, although not made for that purpose) come to mind.

[DarkDude]

What's bad about the Facebook login is that it's a massive security issue.

 

Without Facebook, no where will RuneScape ask, "Save Password?" to shorten logging in. Now, if someone has their Facebook set to automatically log them in or "Remember Me," you can retrieve the stored username and password from their browser. It's incredibly easy to get and decrypt saved passwords into Internet Explorer, Firefox, and Chrome.

 

Seeing as I'd imagine the majority of RuneScape players use the same password for RS elsewhere it really doesn't change a whole lot. And I believe if you're signing up for an account through Facebook (and not linking to an old account) you don't get a username for RS and uses the email system I believe. Although not tried it myself.

 

And again, no one is forcing you to use it and really it being a security issue is no more of a security issue than pretty much every website ever.

[Lensare]

it's getting closer to proper micro-transactions which will kill RuneScape in my opinion.

 

I can see this being the worst year ever in RuneScape history.

 

Microtransactions would also effectively kill gold sites and consequently bots... Let's face it: it would kill the current RuneScape, just like free trade & old-wildy killed the RuneScape that had existed for all those years before that point. And just the same as the old-wildy was ushered out, with it the RuneScape of that time came. But it wouldn't be that much of a change; the step from free trade+illegal hush-hush RWT with bots-a-plenty to free trade+legal RWT with next-to-no bots is very short.

 

It would certainly be a very difficult thing to accept for old-school players who enjoy RS for what it always has been - a fair, competive, yet mostly friendly space.

 

Worst year ever? Well, it actually stands in good company... The past several years have all gotten the title "worst ever" in my book. Same [cabbage], different toilet.

[Stev]

I just did it myself. It does store your RuneScape username and password into your browser. So you could take their RuneScape account simply by taking their Facebook account, or simply retrieve the saved password for RuneScape from their browser.

 

The difference between this and any other website is this:

Say my Tip.It password was abc123. Okay, I may have the same password for RuneScape. That's a shot. But with this Facebook login, if you get their Facebook password, all you have to do is log into their Facebook and click, "Login with Facebook".

[DarkDude]

I just did it myself. It does store your RuneScape username and password into your browser. So you could take their RuneScape account simply by taking their Facebook account, or simply retrieve the saved password for RuneScape from their browser.

 

For current/old accounts sure, but for newer accounts I doubt it'll store the username directly due to it being Email based. Regardless the people that are likely to get their Facebook account taken are the same people who'd likely to have their RS accounts taken by other means, thus a pointless argument.

[pulli23]

What's bad about the Facebook login is that it's a massive security issue.

 

Without Facebook, no where will RuneScape ask, "Save Password?" to shorten logging in. Now, if someone has their Facebook set to automatically log them in or "Remember Me," you can retrieve the stored username and password from their browser. It's incredibly easy to get and decrypt saved passwords into Internet Explorer, Firefox, and Chrome.

Good luck hacking those lol

 

Saving passwords is the best safety feature people have - there is no way to "hack" those saved passwords, or decrypt them.

 

Please wicked_, sound less like a script kiddie and learn to program properly before making these statements with an "authority".

[Llavada]

Plus, it's only 10% for a week with a limit of five weeks a year. That's minor in my book.

Only the beginning. Jagex has been releasing and getting away with tons of, "That's minor in my book update." over the last few weeks and months. Each time, pushing their luck a little more and sinking a little lower. Each time not taking the interests and cares of their loyal members into consideration... What few of them are still human.

 

Facebook. Loyalty programme. Katana. Temp bans (for members). Refer-a-friend. On and on and on.

 

Again, only the beginning.

Listen to Wicked, he speaks the truth

 

btw Read what Mark Gerhard had to say at some conference in Edinburgh recently (the article is dated 12 August 2011)

 

http://www.develop-online.net/news/38441/Jagex-Listen-to-the-trolls-but-go-with-your-gut

[Stev]

What's bad about the Facebook login is that it's a massive security issue.

 

Without Facebook, no where will RuneScape ask, "Save Password?" to shorten logging in. Now, if someone has their Facebook set to automatically log them in or "Remember Me," you can retrieve the stored username and password from their browser. It's incredibly easy to get and decrypt saved passwords into Internet Explorer, Firefox, and Chrome.

Good luck hacking those lol

 

Saving passwords is the best safety feature people have - there is no way to "hack" those saved passwords, or decrypt them.

 

Please wicked_, sound less like a script kiddie and learn to program properly before making these statements with an "authority".

Mk, my last post seemed to have vanished.

 

Perhaps before calling me a script kiddie, you should check out my About Me page. And to say that saving passwords is the best safety feature? Really? Perhaps you out to check out the software I pointed out that can retrieve and decrypt the saved passwords of any infected computer at the click of a button.

 

And DD, me and you both know innocent people's computers are compromised daily. Take my example that happened 2 - 3 months ago. I had 3 e-mail accounts all linked together. One of these e-mails actually used for my Facebook. One of my e-mails had the security question: Mother's birthplace? Well, I live in Windsor, so where do you think she was born? An easy steal. They got all 3 of my e-mails and took my Facebook for a day. Had my Facebook been linked to my RuneScape, it's be gone to.

[DarkDude]

You had poor security on your computer, that's your fault no one else's and because you share a computer with someone else (I thought you lived alone or with your girlfriend?) means you should be smarter about your security in general. For someone who claims to know a lot about things such as hacking to have such a stupid security question on your email accounts makes me laugh. Also, if your emails had been linked to your RuneScape account your account could have been taken that way too, so is adding emails to RuneScape accounts as big as a security issue as Facebook too? Then why aren't you complaining about that?

[Andy]

Why are you asking questions when he obviously can't reply?

[NukeMarine]

Plus, it's only 10% for a week with a limit of five weeks a year. That's minor in my book.

Only the beginning. Jagex has been releasing and getting away with tons of, "That's minor in my book update." over the last few weeks and months. Each time, pushing their luck a little more and sinking a little lower. Each time not taking the interests and cares of their loyal members into consideration... What few of them are still human.

 

Facebook. Loyalty programme. Katana. Temp bans (for members). Refer-a-friend. On and on and on.

 

Again, only the beginning.

 

Ps. Hello, Eduardo.

Actually, I like it each time Jagex makes the game "easier", where by easier I mean not having to click for the sake of clicking. To me, the game has done nothing but improve gameplay wise.

 

Granted, let's face it, I'm not to common audience. I didn't play pretty much for four years till recently (minor comeback due to dungeoneering release). Even now it's just minor playing catching up on quests and tasks. I'm not the type that desires 99 lvl, 200 mill xp, top score or max stats even though I understand the motivation. For me it actually is about having fun even though I know how to max out stats or cash. That said, I can appreciate how bots are destroying the game, and am disappointed at the bald face lie made by the CEO when free trade was being bandied about for making a return.

 

This though is just a minor improvement to the game. Yes, it'll help bots but that's a seperate issue that'll exist even if referral didn't happen. Plus, it's not the drastic x2 skill weekend.

 

TL, DR: The game has been around 10 years and apparently has been ruined or died every month in that time. I think RS will suffer the same fate with this update.

[Crossed_Body]

You had poor security on your computer, that's your fault no one else's and because you share a computer with someone else (I thought you lived alone or with your girlfriend?) means you should be smarter about your security in general. For someone who claims to know a lot about things such as hacking to have such a stupid security question on your email accounts makes me laugh. Also, if your emails had been linked to your RuneScape account your account could have been taken that way too, so is adding emails to RuneScape accounts as big as a security issue as Facebook too? Then why aren't you complaining about that?

And you think the average 12 year old kid that plays runescape has great computer security notions? I don't get your point.

Seems more like a poor attempt of a personal attack than a reasonably sound argument.

[DarkDude]

You had poor security on your computer, that's your fault no one else's and because you share a computer with someone else (I thought you lived alone or with your girlfriend?) means you should be smarter about your security in general. For someone who claims to know a lot about things such as hacking to have such a stupid security question on your email accounts makes me laugh. Also, if your emails had been linked to your RuneScape account your account could have been taken that way too, so is adding emails to RuneScape accounts as big as a security issue as Facebook too? Then why aren't you complaining about that?

And you think the average 12 year old kid that plays runescape has great computer security notions? I don't get your point.

Seems more like a poor attempt of a personal attack than a reasonably sound argument.

 

Nope, I don't. Which was my point that Facebook doesn't add any less security when the people that are likely to have been "hacked" previously most likely used to the same password on other sites so if their computer gets compromised it doesn't really matter if their account is linked to Facebook or not. Then Wicked gave a perfect example of another reason why Facebook security doesn't make much difference when if his email had been connected with his RS account it could have been taken just as easily. Along with his email would have been things such as RuneScape payment receipts and most likely access to other sites and possibly passwords through there. Pinning bad security on Just Facebook is silly.

[Crossed_Body]

Nope, I don't. Which was my point that Facebook doesn't add any less security when the people that are likely to have been "hacked" previously most likely used to the same password on other sites so if their computer gets compromised it doesn't really matter if their account is linked to Facebook or not. Then Wicked gave a perfect example of another reason why Facebook security doesn't make much difference when if his email had been connected with his RS account it could have been taken just as easily. Along with his email would have been things such as RuneScape payment receipts and most likely access to other sites and possibly passwords through there. Pinning bad security on Just Facebook is silly.

I think the point here is that facebook login subtracts from an already poor system. It just adds space for more security breaches, and with facebook, those can be pretty damn personal. I don't like the email system at all, I'd honestly like to see the original system back.

[pulli23]

What's bad about the Facebook login is that it's a massive security issue.

 

Without Facebook, no where will RuneScape ask, "Save Password?" to shorten logging in. Now, if someone has their Facebook set to automatically log them in or "Remember Me," you can retrieve the stored username and password from their browser. It's incredibly easy to get and decrypt saved passwords into Internet Explorer, Firefox, and Chrome.

Good luck hacking those lol

 

Saving passwords is the best safety feature people have - there is no way to "hack" those saved passwords, or decrypt them.

 

Please wicked_, sound less like a script kiddie and learn to program properly before making these statements with an "authority".

Mk, my last post seemed to have vanished.

 

Perhaps before calling me a script kiddie, you should check out my About Me page. And to say that saving passwords is the best safety feature? Really? Perhaps you out to check out the software I pointed out that can retrieve and decrypt the saved passwords of any infected computer at the click of a button.

 

And DD, me and you both know innocent people's computers are compromised daily. Take my example that happened 2 - 3 months ago. I had 3 e-mail accounts all linked together. One of these e-mails actually used for my Facebook. One of my e-mails had the security question: Mother's birthplace? Well, I live in Windsor, so where do you think she was born? An easy steal. They got all 3 of my e-mails and took my Facebook for a day. Had my Facebook been linked to my RuneScape, it's be gone to.

 

 

Really, "innocent people's computers are compromised daily".. This is a very generic statement: and I still don't believe anyone would do this for runescape.. I mean a game, come on, there's much more to win than a simple game when you gain access to someone's PC. But besides that: by automatically filling in forms, you are way less prone to key/screen logging. Not for nothing HP has standard a system to automatically fill in passwords (when logged in at a username) - it is promoted a security feature.

But the biggest security hole nowadays: password re-use. Really make a site providing some porn, and ask for signups. about 4 in 5 people will reuse an old password for that website (as you have to sign up to so many things nowadays it's simply unfeasable to remember passwords). Automatically generated passwords (with a master password/fingerprint) prevent this.

 

You still SOUND as a script kiddie: you may know your languages well (though which talented person would go to a company instead of doing a university study is beyond me) - but remember that programming is just factory work. Software engineering / compiler theory etc etc are things that require intelligence.

[Crossed_Body]

Really, "innocent people's computers are compromised daily".. This is a very generic statement: and I still don't believe anyone would do this for runescape.

Then you have no idea the kind of money that hacking accounts can bring.

[pulli23]

Really, "innocent people's computers are compromised daily".. This is a very generic statement: and I still don't believe anyone would do this for runescape.

Then you have no idea the kind of money that hacking accounts can bring.

More money than my bank account holds? - More money than a year of my study costs?

 

If that would be the case, I'd immediatelly sell my rs account: a free study year is invaluable.