Refer a Friend Programme - 18 Aug 2011

[obfuscator]

 

Really, "innocent people's computers are compromised daily".. This is a very generic statement: and I still don't believe anyone would do this for runescape.. I mean a game, come on, there's much more to win than a simple game when you gain access to someone's PC. But besides that: by automatically filling in forms, you are way less prone to key/screen logging. Not for nothing HP has standard a system to automatically fill in passwords (when logged in at a username) - it is promoted a security feature.

But the biggest security hole nowadays: password re-use. Really make a site providing some porn, and ask for signups. about 4 in 5 people will reuse an old password for that website (as you have to sign up to so many things nowadays it's simply unfeasable to remember passwords). Automatically generated passwords (with a master password/fingerprint) prevent this.

 

You still SOUND as a script kiddie: you may know your languages well (though which talented person would go to a company instead of doing a university study is beyond me) - but remember that programming is just factory work. Software engineering / compiler theory etc etc are things that require intelligence.

 

If you don't believe anyone would do this for runescape you're sadly misinformed. There are a huge number of people who attempt to hack huge numbers of RS accounts through many different means and they're often successful.

 

Programming is just factory work? Have you ever even tried to program?

 

 

More money than my bank account holds? - More money than a year of my study costs?

 

If that would be the case, I'd immediatelly sell my rs account: a free study year is invaluable.

 

Absolutely. It's a massive industry.

[BioIce]

Most Runescape account hacks occur because of social engineering. Facebook contributes to that because the mark often has plenty of fine details there to start a recovery attempt.

[Crossed_Body]

More money than my bank account holds? - More money than a year of my study costs?

 

If that would be the case, I'd immediatelly sell my rs account: a free study year is invaluable.

Yes, some accounts are worth just that. I know a guy who got a car for an account. A used one, but still.

 

There are people that have lists with over 5000 account + passwords. They methodically log in, drop your untradeables, trade your valuables and move on to the next one.

Making billions in a flash and selling them is good money from a hacker's perspective. Of course, if they get a hold of your bank account, they'll probably try to get that much more, so what's your point?

[obfuscator]

Also bear in mind most people take far better care of the security on their irl bank account than they do on a rs account or fb one.

[Youmu]

That's why you make up random passwords, recovery questions, and bank PINs.

 

It's not that hard :mellow:

[pulli23]

 

Programming is just factory work? Have you ever even tried to program?

 

"Yes" - I'm studying a minor in computer science at the Delft university of technology. (Finished a major bachelor degree in physics, and am now doing my second major in aerospace engineering). I've programmed in more languages than I can remember, and really just "coding" is the easiest thing on earth once you know it. There is no difficulty in this, and it won't be long before programming is removed from university level and expected to be standard knowlenge for students. - "Programming" isn't higher than high school level.

 

The difficulty is describing what a user wants and converting that to your application. - Or creating the possibility to program (formally defining a language which is easier/better than others).

[BioIce]

That's why you make up random passwords, recovery questions, and bank PINs.

 

It's not that hard :mellow:

 

Correct, but most people don't really do that.

 

Though if somebody starts asking really personal stuff, even something as casual and flip as, "where ya from?" is useful for social engineering.

[Crossed_Body]

"Yes" - I'm studying a minor in computer science at the Delft university of technology. (Finished a major bachelor degree in physics, and am now doing my second major in aerospace engineering). I've programmed in more languages than I can remember, and really just "coding" is the easiest thing on earth once you know it. There is no difficulty in this, and it won't be long before programming is removed from university level and expected to be standard knowlenge for students. - "Programming" isn't higher than high school level.

 

The difficulty is describing what a user wants and converting that to your application. - Or creating the possibility to program (formally defining a language which is easier/better than others).

Sure thing bro. That's a pretty cool way to demonstrate your ignorance on the subject.

[obfuscator]

 

Programming is just factory work? Have you ever even tried to program?

 

"Yes" - I'm studying a minor in computer science at the Delft university of technology. (Finished a major bachelor degree in physics, and am now doing my second major in aerospace engineering). I've programmed in more languages than I can remember, and really just "coding" is the easiest thing on earth once you know it. There is no difficulty in this, and it won't be long before programming is removed from university level and expected to be standard knowlenge for students. - "Programming" isn't higher than high school level.

 

The difficulty is describing what a user wants and converting that to your application. - Or creating the possibility to program (formally defining a language which is easier/better than others).

 

I accept that some programming is more difficult than others - but I wouldn't call it easy. Certainly if you're intelligent you can grasp it, it's not nuclear physics, but it's not flipping burgers either. Saying there's "no difficulty" is untrue.

 

We're getting off topic though.

 

That's why you make up random passwords, recovery questions, and bank PINs.

 

It's not that hard :mellow:

It's easier to get hacked then you think - and it just doesn't occur to most people to take those security measures.

 

I've never been hacked in any form, but that's due to a combination of prudent personal security policies and a large amount of luck at the time when I wasn't so security conscious.

[RU_Insane]

I'm not really sure that I've said this before, but it's not the fact that the change will break the game significantly, but the fact that this is a clear cut money for power trade. Before, with the special items that didn't really do anything besides look pretty, it was fine. Hell, even the auras are okay to some extent....because ALL MEMBERS gain access to them on the side at an equal rate based on their time spent in the programme, rather than paying an additional amount to get more points faster (outside of certain stupid loopholes that should have been thought of beforehand, regardless of what you say about hindsight). It basically works like any of the other distractions/diversions in that regard, except in this case there isn't any kind of actual minigame attached.

 

However, now you can pretty much buy this boost with money. It takes additional money to buy this boost, and we aren't really separating the boost users from those who aren't, so it's not the same as the members/f2p split.

 

I agree. I dislike the way Jagex is sliding downhill with these barely disguised and poorly thought out money-grabbing schemes. Like I said earlier, it violates their core principle of not buying your way to success in the game.

 

As much as referral programs (i mean "programmes") are cool, I think they could have easily designed one that would have worked for free and was available to everybody. This would have had more interest to the overall community, been more effective to draw in additional players, and makes more logical sense as a whole. Since people who sign up for membership are those who have actively tried their hand at the game for a certain amount of days that Jagex would most certainly know the average of, once that player stays active for that many days (an active day being one in which a cumulative hour has been spent playing that day), I would have replaced the reward with a free week of membership granted to the sponsor (with a limit of five total per year granted this way), and-wait, forget that part about the cosmetic item. It would probably be more likely for both players to continue being members if both of them got the free week, since they wouldn't want to separate.

 

That idea makes more sense than what Jagex came up with. I particularly like it because of the time that lapses before you're granted the membership. For example, if the average transition time from F2P to P2P is a hundred playing hours and the reward for this is one free week of P2P, Jagex would've raked in much more from membership fees when that total time is up. I think it's fair to implement some sort of sign-up limit as well. I imagine many players would sign up and a large portion would be granted the free-week at the same-time.

 

It'd make sense that the expenses Jagex incurs from granting free-membership at that point in-time doesn't also exceed the revenue they accrued over that same period. For example, if it takes one month for a player to achieve one hundred playing hours and he's granted the membership, tens of thousands of others would likely obtain it at the same time. Since we don't know the base expense of running a P2P subscription for Jagex (since they're likely to mark-up the price for profit and different subscriptions have different cost rates), it's unlikely that it'd be a financial loss to them. ... I guess a sign-up limit isn't so necessary then :P

 

Your idea is actually pretty good. It prevents abuse because you have to actually put in playing hours as opposed to taking a few minutes to walk to the store to buy membership for a game you just heard about. With your method, you get acquainted with the game and when enough time passes, you have the choice to use the membership or not. I think it's useful to make the free week of membership optional, by the way. I mean, I'm sure many players would take the chance at P2P especially if it's free at that point. I'd make it optional simply because some players wouldn't want to try P2P at that point (for whatever reason), which is common.

 

And to ensure that the time spent in the game is spent actually playing the game and not standing around doing nothing trying to fool the system, I think it'd make sense to make the game track time spent actually interacting with the environment. Skilling, questing, monster-hunting, trading, and so forth. This is so players are actually encouraged to find productive ways to spend-time in game.

 

Although it's unlikely new players would just stand around, it's possible veteran players who have mains would sign up noob accounts to bypass this requirement by not doing anything, getting the "X amount of hours" played, and then getting free membership for their mains. This detail makes the whole programme equally accessible, comprehensive, and air-tight. Heck. You should suggest this idea on the forums. :P It attracts potential long-time players (and payers) at no cost to either the user or Jagex, and the incentive to do so isn't game-breaking or violating one of Jagex's principles.

 

Nobody gains an ingame advantage over anybody else. More new people enter the game. More people get to try members. More people get hooked.

 

Would it benefit bots? I guess. Would it benefit bots above other players? Not inside the game.

 

But yet, so many are willing to accept the current programmmmmme as the most viable option.

 

However, since it is basically a CHEAP WAY TO BOOST THEIR PAYING MEMBERS NUMBERS WITHOUT ANY REGARD FOR ANY ACTUAL LONGTERM PLAYER INVESTMENT, I think we can see through these claims as the predictable sham that it is. I mean, the new member has to pay within 2 weeks of entering the game, and any benefit to them is largely superficial and not even close to why they would want to play with their friends.

 

Perhaps Jagex could make it so that any account who spends an unusual amount of time in-game doing an activity a certain way (the way macroers would) is flagged. After all, what new account besides that belonging to a veteran player would stick to just a few select activities? Then when the time-lapses and membership is about to be granted, those flagged accounts are submitted to Jagex for review. Who knows how many botters will sign-up. They're artificial so they have all the time in the world to earn that membership.

 

That considered though, I think it's more convenient for the owner-of the bot to simply buy membership up front since the profit they'd make in-game selling gold/items likely exceeds the cost of membership. If not that, the achievement of a botted 99 skill for them is worth paying the money up-front too, again because there's no physical effort beyond that since the bot presumably does the rest of the work.

 

So on hand, it's unlikely that many cheaters would take advantage of this programme since what's a few dollars up front for a botted 99 in members? It's also likely that if they paid for the bot script, that they'd have money to pay for membership right away too. In the case the cheater decides to earn free membership through the programme, any suspicious activity from them would be flagged, meaning their efforts could be wasted with a simple ban, and they'd have to start over. If they decide to play by the rules up until they earn the membership, the bot would be flagged in-game due to suspicious activity afterward. Further, even if that bot is banned, the owner could create another on the spot at no cost. So even if the risk is great, the botters aren't really punished (unless the banned bot was their main).

 

So I think the issue of botters abusing this program is one of risk vs reward here, and convenience vs effort. I think it's unlikely for a botter to play by the rules for free-membership (which is only one week too). On the flip-side, the botter could choose convenience and cheat from the outset, which while effort is minimal, the risk of getting caught can be potentially great. Then again, many players have botted 99s without getting caught. o.O But yeah, simply due to the convenience of paying up-front, and the low/high risk of botting, I think many cheaters would opt to pay for a longer membership rather than investing effort for a short-term subscription.

 

So would bots benefit? It's possible, but on a large-scale? Unlikely since the majority of botters would pay for membership to bot as opposed to no cost, even if the risk of getting caught is high or low. Would it benefit bots over players? Not inside the game. Agreed.

 

Overall, I agree with you though. There are more effective 'programmes' to attract members than what Jagex has introduced.

[Sona]

tl;dr: They need numbers. Current advertisements not cutting it. The end.

 

I assume those of us here are reasonably mature and are capable of hearing things we don't like to hear. You've been warned.

 

Consider it from Jagex's perspective. Most MMOs tend to target either teenagers or college-aged students first, as they often have disposable income. I am aware that the statement is generalizing, but it serves as the basis for this argument. Jagex is a company. Their goal is to make money. Don't give me the puppy-eyes and the 'oh they care about playerz!!1!". They care because they can get money from you by keeping you happy and playing.

 

That being said. Runescape have, and always will have, the stigma of being a "kiddie game." It possess no capability to attract significant numbers of the older crowd when there are much better alternatives such as League of Legends or even Farmville. With the rise of apps and iPhone games, Runescape must also compete against those, and in its current incarnation, word of mouth advertisements alone will not cut it. This, I think, is the heart of the refer-a-friend program. They need numbers to stay competitive, and when you have no alternatives, refer-a-friend'll have to do.

 

People aren't going to refer friends if they don't get something from it. Very rarely will you have folks managing fansites or things like that who are genuinely doing it out of their own free will. You certainly cannot - unfortunate as it is - depend on these guys to bring you a significant improvement in form of numbers.

 

I'll point out something that no one'll like to hear. If Jagex went transcriptional instead of subscription, they would make a lot more money, and inadvertently solve any financial issues they may have. But I think the elitists in the community (i.e. those who aren't bots) will probably rage RS back to its classic days were that to occur.

[brunokiller]

"Programming" isn't higher than high school level.

 

 

Look at jagex, with all their basic coding errors. Or someone is doing something horribly wrong.

[timmmmm83]

Yes, some accounts are worth just that. I know a guy who got a car for an account. A used one, but still.

 

There are people that have lists with over 5000 account + passwords. They methodically log in, drop your untradeables, trade your valuables and move on to the next one.

Making billions in a flash and selling them is good money from a hacker's perspective. Of course, if they get a hold of your bank account, they'll probably try to get that much more, so what's your point?

True, I wonder if getting hold of a bank account would yeald more actually, large and obscure transactions are flagged and won't go through.

Trading a phat set to your own RS-account gives approximately 10b? At dumping RWT prices that is 5000$. Not bad for a 'hard days work'.

[obfuscator]

"Programming" isn't higher than high school level.

 

 

Look at jagex, with all their basic coding errors. Or someone is doing something horribly wrong.

It's easy to make mistakes when you have a massive codebase like they do. Obviously their QA should be much better, I'm just saying it's easy to make mistakes.

[strilmus]

It is. But they should stop trying to pass themselves off as a veteran game company if they want to take that route. :P

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

"Programming" isn't higher than high school level.

 

 

Look at jagex, with all their basic coding errors. Or someone is doing something horribly wrong.

 

 

<clearly_offtopic>

Because ensuring that a game with a codebase that's 1/5th the size of the Linux kernel (~1 million) in several different languages (Java, C, assembly) is absolutely bug free is easy. Right? Honestly, the number of bugs that are present in the game is remarkably low compared to the size of the code base.

</clearly_offtopic>

[pulli23]

"Programming" isn't higher than high school level.

 

 

Look at jagex, with all their basic coding errors. Or someone is doing something horribly wrong.

They suffer greatly from "code rot". - A main problem when you design something when the goals aren't clear, and you keep updating the program. Besides, runescape is a very, very good program, with very few bugs. (Most "bugs" are rather design mistakes, so would require a software engineer to fix it).

[pepijn777]

More replies from Mod Mat K.

Most of them are of the "I can't tell you" kind ofcourse:

 

 

QFC: 14-15-190-63089129

Page: 192

[Zaaps1]

"We are more than confident in delivering a free trade game with practically no bots"

 

wat

[Heisenberg]

"We are more than confident in delivering a free trade game with practically no bots"

 

wat

 

 

Sounds totally realistic. Should be any day now.

[michel555555]

 

We stand up to RWTing because it is damaging to us, the game and therefore the legitamet players. I know we have been very vocal about it in the past and that has built up an expectation about us, but quite frankly what we are doing is the complete opposite, its actually helping the games.

 

 

So, if i'm reading this right, it means that jagex has no intention of stopping with the rwt gimmicks and they actually believe that bringing rwt into the game and ailienating a good portion of their player base is a good thing?

[Stev]

"We are more than confident in delivering a free trade game with practically no bots"

 

wat

 

 

Sounds totally realistic. Should be any day now.

 

Yup. Practically no bots.

[NukeMarine]

"We are more than confident in delivering a free trade game with practically no bots"

 

wat

 

 

Sounds totally realistic. Should be any day now.

Jagex: "You think some bot is going to log onto the game and ruin us? No! We are the one that logs".... Ok, a very bad BB attempt. Still, that line about being able to hand bots with the return of free trade parallels the heights of arrogance that Walter White achieved.

[Heisenberg]

I thought it was good marine :P.

 

Message of the week is now advertising RAF. I think that's our answer...

 

Edit: Regarding MMK's post

 

as for the difference between Jagex RWTing and RWT companies doing it is that we do it without negatively impacting on Runescape

 

[cabbage] you don't.

 

Whatever, hopefully my mems will be up before you start selling gp/item for 'J-Points'.

[supermancav]

A post by Mod Mat K in response to the RAF(B) program:

 

Quick find code: 254-255-115-63134042; Page 4, Post 7