michel555555 Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 From a players perspective, yes. From a business perspective, it's brilliant.I don't think it's good business routinely alienating your core fan base.The problem is that more and more of thier 'core fan base' are robots playing 24/7. The shifts that Jagex have made have undoubtedly made some players angry and quit, but the shifts also made way for hundreds of thousands more 'players' (bots) to give their money to Jagex. It's good business* to tick off 10 loyal customers if doing so leads to 100 more mindless customers coming to fill their shoes. *Good in financial terms, which is all they investers care about, not PR. Until there just arn't enough real players left for the bots to be profitable. In which case there will then be a mass exodus and jagex loses alot of cash all at once and company fails. [spoiler=click you know you wanna]Me behave? Seriously? As a child I saw Tarzan almost naked, Cinderella arrived home from a party after midnight, Pinocchio told lies, Aladin was a thief, Batman drove over 200 miles an hour, Snow White lived in a house with seven men, Popeye smoked a pipe and had tattoos, Pac man ran around to digital music while eating pills that enhanced his performance, and Shaggy and Scooby were mystery solving hippies who always had the munchies. The fault is not mine! if you had this childhood and loved it put this in your signature! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alg Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Until there just arn't enough real players left for the bots to be profitable. In which case there will then be a mass exodus and jagex loses alot of cash all at once and company fails.I'm guessing the VCs are hoping that they're (Individually) not the ones holding the bag when that happens :razz: Presumably, the same way that Andrew himself seems to have cashed out before the game ate itself from the inside. Anything that happens now, we can't really pin on him. I painted some stuff and put it on tumblr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathknell Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 From a players perspective, yes. From a business perspective, it's brilliant.I don't think it's good business routinely alienating your core fan base.The problem is that more and more of thier 'core fan base' are robots playing 24/7. The shifts that Jagex have made have undoubtedly made some players angry and quit, but the shifts also made way for hundreds of thousands more 'players' (bots) to give their money to Jagex. It's good business* to tick off 10 loyal customers if doing so leads to 100 more mindless customers coming to fill their shoes. *Good in financial terms, which is all they investers care about, not PR. Until there just arn't enough real players left for the bots to be profitable. In which case there will then be a mass exodus and jagex loses alot of cash all at once and company fails. Eggggggggggg-xactly! :thumbsup: I'm like a hot mess, but without the alcohol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilovecuttingyews Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 From a players perspective, yes. From a business perspective, it's brilliant.I don't think it's good business routinely alienating your core fan base.The problem is that more and more of thier 'core fan base' are robots playing 24/7. The shifts that Jagex have made have undoubtedly made some players angry and quit, but the shifts also made way for hundreds of thousands more 'players' (bots) to give their money to Jagex. It's good business* to tick off 10 loyal customers if doing so leads to 100 more mindless customers coming to fill their shoes.*Good in financial terms, which is all they investers care about, not PR.Until there just arn't enough real players left for the bots to be profitable. In which case there will then be a mass exodus and jagex loses alot of cash all at once and company fails.*Andrew builds up RS to be super awesome**sells Jagex for tens of millions**investers make dumb decisions and everyone quits**Andrew buys back Jagex for pennies on the dollar*??????Profit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravy Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 It's the end of runescape as we know it. Someone make a movie. Follow me on Twitter!FORGET NOT THE CHICKEN.I have no intrest in helping "keyers" farm xp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaida23 Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Edit: On a serious note, I think some of you are being a bit overdramatic. It's not uncommon for founders of a company to sell it off. That doesn't necessarily mean they think the company is "going down". More than anything else, it's probably the founder being tired of the day-to-day operations required in maintaining a business.But how much faith would people have in Microsoft if Bill Gates sold off all (not some, all) of his shares? None. The company would fold like a cheap lawn chair. Diversification of your portfolio is one thing, completely bailing out is another. I wouldn't be surprised if Andrew's current position at Jagex was in name only, just to keep faith with the players that at least someone there still knows what the heck he's doing. Check out my blog to read the Adventures of a Big Damn (F2P) Hero. THE place for all free players to connect, hang out and talk about how awesome it is to be F2P. So, Kaida is the real version of every fictional science-badass? That explains a lot, actually... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathknell Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Edit: On a serious note, I think some of you are being a bit overdramatic. It's not uncommon for founders of a company to sell it off. That doesn't necessarily mean they think the company is "going down". More than anything else, it's probably the founder being tired of the day-to-day operations required in maintaining a business.But how much faith would people have in Microsoft if Bill Gates sold off all (not some, all) of his shares? None. The company would fold like a cheap lawn chair. Diversification of your portfolio is one thing, completely bailing out is another. I wouldn't be surprised if Andrew's current position at Jagex was in name only, just to keep faith with the players that at least someone there still knows what the heck he's doing. I think he just has a job and works there now. Maybe gets a consulting fee too, but he's not anything anymore other than another employee. I'm like a hot mess, but without the alcohol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sly_Wizard Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Edit: On a serious note, I think some of you are being a bit overdramatic. It's not uncommon for founders of a company to sell it off. That doesn't necessarily mean they think the company is "going down". More than anything else, it's probably the founder being tired of the day-to-day operations required in maintaining a business.But how much faith would people have in Microsoft if Bill Gates sold off all (not some, all) of his shares? None. The company would fold like a cheap lawn chair. Diversification of your portfolio is one thing, completely bailing out is another. I wouldn't be surprised if Andrew's current position at Jagex was in name only, just to keep faith with the players that at least someone there still knows what the heck he's doing. Ben Cohen and Jerry Greenfield, for example, sold their company (Ben & Jerry's ice cream) years ago. The company didn't fold. That's just one example off the top of my head. I'm pretty sure I could find many examples of the original founder(s) of a company selling the company and the company not "folding like a cheap lawn chair" after the sale. This really isn't the end of the world type drama people are making it out to be. There are many factors involved in people selling their company that aren't related to bailing before the ship goes down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HunterDexter Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Well, you forget that Bill Gates and Steve Jobs are the image of their company, if you think of their company, you imagine them, that same thing happens with Jagex. The Gowers ARE Jagex. B&J, the thing I think about that company, is cookiedough flavoured icecream, you see?And you mustn't forget, B&J has improved under the supposed new rulers, a few years ago, their icecream was quite rare to find here in Belgium, now, you can buy it almost everywhere and they bring out new kinds of flavours.Whereas we see that Jagex/RuneScape is now only getting gimmicks like expboosters and bottoleration, since the first day the Venture Group had the largest stock in the game, which was at around December 2010. Now, guess what was announced that month? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgehog Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 To be fair, when I think of Ben & Jerry's, I do, in fact, think of Ben & Jerry. However, that whole issue seems rather irrelevant, since it's quite clear that VC is trying to milk rs dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pal2002 Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 TBH, Andrew definitely need to be blamed for at least part of this whole mess. He is the iconic image of RS, Jagex, regardless of how many times he actually appear - but just suddenly throwing in the towel? I just don't know what made him do it.... Getting investments is 1 thing, relinquishing the company you made from the ground up to the investors is something else... what made you do it Andrew? That aside, anyone got anymore info on Fen Research - the new company he founded...? Is it ever going to buy RS back? I would prefer even to fail with honor than to win by cheating - Sophocles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logdotzip Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 i wonder what gold prices are at my youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaida23 Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 what made you do it Andrew? As Krusty the Clown once said: "They drove a dump truck full of money up to my house! I'm not made of stone!" Check out my blog to read the Adventures of a Big Damn (F2P) Hero. THE place for all free players to connect, hang out and talk about how awesome it is to be F2P. So, Kaida is the real version of every fictional science-badass? That explains a lot, actually... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathknell Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 what made you do it Andrew? As Krusty the Clown once said: "They drove a dump truck full of money up to my house! I'm not made of stone!" Because history told us that Andrew wouldn't give up control of his product because 1) He already has a lot of money and 2) he made you think his goal wasn't only about money. I'm like a hot mess, but without the alcohol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaida23 Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 what made you do it Andrew? As Krusty the Clown once said: "They drove a dump truck full of money up to my house! I'm not made of stone!"Because history told us that Andrew wouldn't give up control of his product because 1) He already has a lot of money and 2) he made you think his goal wasn't only about money.I agree, and that's part of why everyone is so upset over this. We expected more of him than simple money grubbing. Check out my blog to read the Adventures of a Big Damn (F2P) Hero. THE place for all free players to connect, hang out and talk about how awesome it is to be F2P. So, Kaida is the real version of every fictional science-badass? That explains a lot, actually... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathknell Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 I have no problem with money grubbing. I do have a problem with poor business. The people in control of Jagex are running it very poorly. And let's be honest with ourselves, does anyone think Jagex won't or isn't blatantly lying to us nowadays? I'm like a hot mess, but without the alcohol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginger_Warrior Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 I agree, and that's part of why everyone is so upset over this. We expected more of him than simple money grubbing.I have this same argument with friends whenever they whine about EA doing essentially the same thing. They're a company. Their job is to make as much money as possible so that shareholders and investors make a good return on their money, so they'll continue to invest into the company. The only consideration a company has to its customers (aside from what the law dictates) is whether or not they'll continue to use and pay for the company's products. The only case I can see for not approving of 'money grubbing' from Jagex's perspective is if players drop off from RuneScape, they don't receive the subscription fees, and RuneScape fails to make enough profit. The difference with botting is that, unlike Free Trade (where only 9% voted against), I think this might be the straw that breaks the camel's back for many. | Favourite Game Music | Last.fm | HYT Friend Chat Rules | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathknell Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Exactly Ginger and I think that is the crucial mistake they are making. They are going to kill off their main source of revenue and run this thing into the ground. I'm like a hot mess, but without the alcohol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginger_Warrior Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 The attitude from the company appears to be that if they give us shiny new graphics and schemes which incentivise us to keep the subscriptions rolling in, we'll turn a blind eye to the blight of botting, which thanks to Free Trade, has now found an environment where bots can flourish and their owners not hold any fear of ramifications. I agree that that's a very poor assumption, particularly amongst those players who have organised themselves into clans and fansites and are therefore part of a network where they're never far away from the issues that affect RuneScape, including botting and the general decline of quality in new content. By that I mean people like me and you. They need to focus less on the shiny stuff and concentrate more on the issues that affect RuneScape players on sites like Tip.It. If Jagex released a BTS saying, "This month we're not releasing any content because we're fixing the deeply embedded problems that fansites have flagged up repeatedly but we've ignored for far too long", I think it would actually go down well here even though subscribers aren't getting anything new. | Favourite Game Music | Last.fm | HYT Friend Chat Rules | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pulli23 Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 From a players perspective, yes. From a business perspective, it's brilliant.A business without "perspective" is as empty as a balloon: and will pop sometime. Really it's bad for employees (they get less motivated if just working to "earn money" instead of working for a thing they believe in), it's bad for your public image, and it's finally bad for long term development. There is no long standing company which doesn't have a perspective: and during studies this is the first thing you learn when forming a company. "selling to a venture" is often frowned down upon here, and goverment often prevent sales: this should give a message that "only profit" is bad business for everyone - in the same manner pyramid schemes are.Ford started to make cars for everyone: and they still provide affordable cars.Philips started to be inovative for light: and bring good environment choices. Currently they are investing mainly is medical apparature: but still the most innovative of the world.ASML started to provide chipmachines which would bring the newest technology togetherDAF has the aim to have least footnote: their trucks are natural the least demanding, and they were the first to describe tests to test motor exhaust.(Those are all companies I have friends/familie working at high level). Or take an internet based company: yoyogames. Founded by Sandy Duncan (leader of xbox europe for quite some time) and Mark Overmars (prof at university utrecht). They are actually caring about "the community" - they constantly ask the community to give feedback (heck there've been many contest for company logos - or now that they turned their site to another theme, they are open for user submitted themes). They respond in a personal clean manner with bugs. These things make me (at the very least) feel much more comfortable to report bugs, devote my free time to actually find bugs and describe them cleanly.Jagex could also do this: while maybe constant personal message would be too much. They could at least "show their face" more often, act less like divine beings who know everything better. First they came to fishingand I didn't speak out because I wasn't fishing Then they came to the yewsand I didn't speak out because I didn't cut yews Then they came for the oresand I didn't speak out because I didn't collect ores Then they came for meand there was no one left to speak out for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowman_133 Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Old news to me about the investors, although I wasn't aware that Andrew sold off his shares entirely. I also hadn't heard about Fen Research. Interested to see what comes from this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlowinRedM Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 The attitude from the company appears to be that if they give us shiny new graphics and schemes which incentivise us to keep the subscriptions rolling in, we'll turn a blind eye to the blight of botting, which thanks to Free Trade, has now found an environment where bots can flourish and their owners not hold any fear of ramifications. I agree that that's a very poor assumption, particularly amongst those players who have organised themselves into clans and fansites and are therefore part of a network where they're never far away from the issues that affect RuneScape, including botting and the general decline of quality in new content. By that I mean people like me and you. They need to focus less on the shiny stuff and concentrate more on the issues that affect RuneScape players on sites like Tip.It. If Jagex released a BTS saying, "This month we're not releasing any content because we're fixing the deeply embedded problems that fansites have flagged up repeatedly but we've ignored for far too long", I think it would actually go down well here even though subscribers aren't getting anything new. A RS without bots, that would be fairly new to me The corp beast, is, well, just a corp beast. He doesnt even have any friends.[spoiler=Other Quotes]tbh idk why this makes me laugh so hardAll DFS threads turn into efficiency flame wars >.>>OP asks "why use DFS?">everyone says "there is no reason">someone says "stop bashing people who use DFS, efficiency troll ass clown">thread is now a flame fest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omali Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Andrew couldn't have sold Runescape, because he was just a figment of our collective imagination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaida23 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 :lol: Check out my blog to read the Adventures of a Big Damn (F2P) Hero. THE place for all free players to connect, hang out and talk about how awesome it is to be F2P. So, Kaida is the real version of every fictional science-badass? That explains a lot, actually... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberly Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 You owe me the replacement cost for a new keyboard Omali. The only bad thing about this information being released is that people are forgetting the timeline of events. @_@ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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