Two dead in shootings at Virginia Tech

[The Observer]

http://www2.wsls.com/news/2011/dec/08/2/virginia-tech-alert-possible-gun-shots-campus-ar-1530165/

 

2:25: All Montgomery County schools are currently on lockdown.

 

2:12: Virginia Tech spokesman says no one is in custody, and the status of the shootings suspect is not known.

 

1:50: Virginia Tech just released the following statement:

 

Shortly after 12 p.m. today, a Virginia Tech Police officer stopped a vehicle on campus during a routine traffic stop in the Coliseum parking lot near McComas Hall

 

During the traffic stop. the officer was shot and killed. There were witnesses to this shooting.

 

Witnesses reported to police the shooter fled on foot heading toward the Cage, a parking lot near Duck Pond Drive. At that parking lot, a second person was found. That person is also deceased.

 

Several law enforcement agencies have responded to assist. Virginia State police has been requested to take lead in the investigation

 

Status of the shooter is unknown. The campus community should continue to shelter in place and visitors should not come to campus.

 

1:45 update: VT Alerts says the shooting suspect has not been found. Virginia Tech confirms that a police officer has been shot, but has not said who the officer worked for.

 

VT Alerts says a potential second victim is reported at "The Cage" parking lot.

 

Tech advising people to stay inside, and lock their doors.

 

Dawn Jefferies reports police have an area in "The Cage" parking lot roped off. About 20-30 officers appear to be there.

 

1:21: Reports from Blacksburg indicate that there may have been a second shooting victim, at the Cage lot.

 

1:16 p.m.

 

A police source tells WSLS that a police officer has been shot at Virginia Tech, and other police agencies are en route to Blacksburg to help.

 

Second shooting here within a small amount of time.

[SixFootOne]

Seems like a different type of "shooting" since it was a cop that was shot during the traffic stop. Still horrible though. Hopefully the shooter is caught soon.

[Sy_Accursed]

Tbh America really needs to overhaul its gun laws! You like never get this kinda shit in the UK, the odd knifing perhaps but much rarer and rarely deadly; yet at least twice a year in the US there's some maniac shooting ppl dead at a school.

[stevepole]

I saw a friend say something about his thoughts go out to VT this morning on twitter but I didn't think much of it and that he was possibly talking about the shooting that happened in 2007. I feel horrible for those at VT that to go through another shooting. That's some scary stuff.

[SixFootOne]

Tbh America really needs to overhaul its gun laws! You like never get this kinda shit in the UK, the odd knifing perhaps but much rarer and rarely deadly; yet at least twice a year in the US there's some maniac shooting ppl dead at a school.

 

Laws don't stop things from happening. Drugs are illegal, but you can usually easily find anything up to coke on most urban middle schools. You can ban guns, but that won't stop people from using them. Also we have no idea who the shooter was at the moment. Don't assume it was some maniac shooting up people. The article states the cop was shot at a traffic stop, I would suspect they had something in their car they didn't want the cops to know about. It sounds like a coincidence it was at V tech.

 

And I wouldn't say something like this wouldn't happens somewhere else...

 

http://newsfeed.time.com/2010/06/02/body-found-as-12-dead-in-u-k-shooting-massacre/

 

Frankly I find that "shootings at Virginia Tech" part of the title to be a little misleading at the moment, considering we don't really know the shooter or their motivation. Shooting and V Tech imply another massacre like before. When, as far as we know right now, it's not the same type of situation.

 

Edit: I would also like to add that for a very long time, it was very hard to obtain a gun in Chicago, yet we have had the highest murder rate in the U.S.. There are many other factors contributing to killings. Also to compare murder rates of US to UK is, I think, a little skewed. You have around 65 million there, we have over 300 million here. I would expect us to have a higher rate, simply because we have more people.

[Sy_Accursed]

Tbh America really needs to overhaul its gun laws! You like never get this kinda shit in the UK, the odd knifing perhaps but much rarer and rarely deadly; yet at least twice a year in the US there's some maniac shooting ppl dead at a school.

 

Laws don't stop things from happening. Drugs are illegal, but you can usually easily find anything up to coke on most urban middle schools. You can ban guns, but that won't stop people from using them. Also we have no idea who the shooter was at the moment. Don't assume it was some maniac shooting up people. The article states the cop was shot at a traffic stop, I would suspect they had something in their car they didn't want the cops to know about. It sounds like a coincidence it was at V tech.

 

And I wouldn't say something like this wouldn't happens somewhere else...

 

http://newsfeed.time.com/2010/06/02/body-found-as-12-dead-in-u-k-shooting-massacre/

 

Frankly I find that "shootings at Virginia Tech" part of the title to be a little misleading at the moment, considering we don't really know the shooter or their motivation. Shooting and V Tech imply another massacre like before. When, as far as we know right now, it's not the same type of situation.

 

In my eyes: Anyone shooting people in cold blood = maniac

 

Plus I never said it did not happen at all elsewhere* just that it happens much more frequently in the US, primarily because of their gun laws. Granted they do lower some other crime rates, like burglary but they send gun crime rates through the roof which imo is far far worse thing to have higher rate of as it means things like this happen more frequently.

 

*Admittedly a bit hyperbolically but it was there between the lines.

[Zierro]

Tbh America really needs to overhaul its gun laws! You like never get this kinda shit in the UK, the odd knifing perhaps but much rarer and rarely deadly; yet at least twice a year in the US there's some maniac shooting ppl dead at a school.

 

Americans seem to have stronger psychological problems than other countries whether guns are legal or not.

 

Oh and asking for a ban in America is never really an effective idea. The problem doesn't lie within the rules - it lies within the culture.

[SixFootOne]

Tbh America really needs to overhaul its gun laws! You like never get this kinda shit in the UK, the odd knifing perhaps but much rarer and rarely deadly; yet at least twice a year in the US there's some maniac shooting ppl dead at a school.

 

Laws don't stop things from happening. Drugs are illegal, but you can usually easily find anything up to coke on most urban middle schools. You can ban guns, but that won't stop people from using them. Also we have no idea who the shooter was at the moment. Don't assume it was some maniac shooting up people. The article states the cop was shot at a traffic stop, I would suspect they had something in their car they didn't want the cops to know about. It sounds like a coincidence it was at V tech.

 

And I wouldn't say something like this wouldn't happens somewhere else...

 

http://newsfeed.time.com/2010/06/02/body-found-as-12-dead-in-u-k-shooting-massacre/

 

Frankly I find that "shootings at Virginia Tech" part of the title to be a little misleading at the moment, considering we don't really know the shooter or their motivation. Shooting and V Tech imply another massacre like before. When, as far as we know right now, it's not the same type of situation.

 

In my eyes: Anyone shooting people in cold blood = maniac

 

Plus I never said it did not happen at all elsewhere just that it happens much more frequently in the US, primarily because of their gun laws. Granted they do lower some other crime rates, like burglary but they send gun crime rates through the roof which imo is far far worse thing to have higher rate of as it means things like this happen more frequently.

 

I am just saying there is a difference between a drug dealer shooting a cop because he doesn't want to be caught (of course that's just a guess on the motivation of the suspect on my part), and a mentally troubled youth shotting up over 50 people at a school. Also, read my edit, I think Chicago is a good example of gun laws having nothing to do with crime/murder rates.

 

For example, "The City of Chicago has some of the most restrictive gun control laws in the nation. Up until a few months ago, it was illegal for a private citizen to own or possess a handgun anywhere within the city, including in one's own home."

 

http://www.greeleygazette.com/press/?p=7101

 

Chicago's murder rate tops L.A. and New York

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/24/chicago-murder-rate-tops_n_137488.html

[Sir_Squab]

Tbh America really needs to overhaul its gun laws! You like never get this kinda shit in the UK, the odd knifing perhaps but much rarer and rarely deadly; yet at least twice a year in the US there's some maniac shooting ppl dead at a school.

 

Laws don't stop things from happening. Drugs are illegal, but you can usually easily find anything up to coke on most urban middle schools. You can ban guns, but that won't stop people from using them. Also we have no idea who the shooter was at the moment. Don't assume it was some maniac shooting up people. The article states the cop was shot at a traffic stop, I would suspect they had something in their car they didn't want the cops to know about. It sounds like a coincidence it was at V tech.

 

And I wouldn't say something like this wouldn't happens somewhere else...

 

http://newsfeed.time.com/2010/06/02/body-found-as-12-dead-in-u-k-shooting-massacre/

 

Frankly I find that "shootings at Virginia Tech" part of the title to be a little misleading at the moment, considering we don't really know the shooter or their motivation. Shooting and V Tech imply another massacre like before. When, as far as we know right now, it's not the same type of situation.

 

In my eyes: Anyone shooting people in cold blood = maniac

 

Plus I never said it did not happen at all elsewhere just that it happens much more frequently in the US, primarily because of their gun laws. Granted they do lower some other crime rates, like burglary but they send gun crime rates through the roof which imo is far far worse thing to have higher rate of as it means things like this happen more frequently.

 

I agree with your sentiment, but you need to consider how many guns already ARE in America and how entrenched they are in American culture. Trying to restrict guns and make stricter gun laws in the US is extremely difficult at best, and suicidal at worst.

 

Sad to hear about this btw =/

[RpgGamer]

I have a shooting near my school like once or twice a month. The news vans are too scared to come to the city to cover it, so you never hear about it.

 

Camden representttt

[SixFootOne]

I have a shooting near my school like once or twice a month. The news vans are too scared to come to the city to cover it, so you never hear about it.

 

Camden representttt

 

Yeah there is that too... some urban schools/neighborhoods have this quite often but it doesn't even make the evening news. Or in the case that it does, it blows over within a day and is just labeled gang violence, and no one cares anymore :cry: .

[Sy_Accursed]

Tbh America really needs to overhaul its gun laws! You like never get this kinda shit in the UK, the odd knifing perhaps but much rarer and rarely deadly; yet at least twice a year in the US there's some maniac shooting ppl dead at a school.

 

Laws don't stop things from happening. Drugs are illegal, but you can usually easily find anything up to coke on most urban middle schools. You can ban guns, but that won't stop people from using them. Also we have no idea who the shooter was at the moment. Don't assume it was some maniac shooting up people. The article states the cop was shot at a traffic stop, I would suspect they had something in their car they didn't want the cops to know about. It sounds like a coincidence it was at V tech.

 

And I wouldn't say something like this wouldn't happens somewhere else...

 

http://newsfeed.time.com/2010/06/02/body-found-as-12-dead-in-u-k-shooting-massacre/

 

Frankly I find that "shootings at Virginia Tech" part of the title to be a little misleading at the moment, considering we don't really know the shooter or their motivation. Shooting and V Tech imply another massacre like before. When, as far as we know right now, it's not the same type of situation.

 

In my eyes: Anyone shooting people in cold blood = maniac

 

Plus I never said it did not happen at all elsewhere just that it happens much more frequently in the US, primarily because of their gun laws. Granted they do lower some other crime rates, like burglary but they send gun crime rates through the roof which imo is far far worse thing to have higher rate of as it means things like this happen more frequently.

 

I am just saying there is a difference between a drug dealer shooting a cop because he doesn't want to be caught (of course that's just a guess on the motivation of the suspect on my part), and a mentally troubled youth shotting up over 50 people at a school. Also, read my edit, I think Chicago is a good example of gun laws having nothing to do with crime/murder rates.

 

For example, "The City of Chicago has some of the most restrictive gun control laws in the nation. Up until a few months ago, it was illegal for a private citizen to own or possess a handgun anywhere within the city, including in one's own home."

 

http://www.greeleygazette.com/press/?p=7101

 

Chicago's murder rate tops L.A. and New York

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/24/chicago-murder-rate-tops_n_137488.html

 

 

Good crime rates are in % or fractions or ratios so populations don't impact. eg a 1:500 murder rate in the US and UK is still the same, but would be more actual murders in the US.

And there is a clear correlation between gun crime and gun control laws when comparing on an international level.

I don't think Chicago having tighter laws can be taken as a good example because its not like there's a national border where they'd pick up via x-ray etc you have a gun so "smuggling" in from other US areas would be easy as heck; and things vary from city to city everywhere it does depend on the culture of that place. No doubt tighter gun laws for Chicago stemmed from the murder/gun crime rate in the first place as an attempt to stem it.

[SixFootOne]

Tbh America really needs to overhaul its gun laws! You like never get this kinda shit in the UK, the odd knifing perhaps but much rarer and rarely deadly; yet at least twice a year in the US there's some maniac shooting ppl dead at a school.

 

Laws don't stop things from happening. Drugs are illegal, but you can usually easily find anything up to coke on most urban middle schools. You can ban guns, but that won't stop people from using them. Also we have no idea who the shooter was at the moment. Don't assume it was some maniac shooting up people. The article states the cop was shot at a traffic stop, I would suspect they had something in their car they didn't want the cops to know about. It sounds like a coincidence it was at V tech.

 

And I wouldn't say something like this wouldn't happens somewhere else...

 

http://newsfeed.time.com/2010/06/02/body-found-as-12-dead-in-u-k-shooting-massacre/

 

Frankly I find that "shootings at Virginia Tech" part of the title to be a little misleading at the moment, considering we don't really know the shooter or their motivation. Shooting and V Tech imply another massacre like before. When, as far as we know right now, it's not the same type of situation.

 

In my eyes: Anyone shooting people in cold blood = maniac

 

Plus I never said it did not happen at all elsewhere just that it happens much more frequently in the US, primarily because of their gun laws. Granted they do lower some other crime rates, like burglary but they send gun crime rates through the roof which imo is far far worse thing to have higher rate of as it means things like this happen more frequently.

 

I am just saying there is a difference between a drug dealer shooting a cop because he doesn't want to be caught (of course that's just a guess on the motivation of the suspect on my part), and a mentally troubled youth shotting up over 50 people at a school. Also, read my edit, I think Chicago is a good example of gun laws having nothing to do with crime/murder rates.

 

For example, "The City of Chicago has some of the most restrictive gun control laws in the nation. Up until a few months ago, it was illegal for a private citizen to own or possess a handgun anywhere within the city, including in one's own home."

 

http://www.greeleygazette.com/press/?p=7101

 

Chicago's murder rate tops L.A. and New York

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/24/chicago-murder-rate-tops_n_137488.html

 

 

Good crime rates are in % or fractions or ratios so populations don't impact. eg a 1:500 murder rate in the US and UK is still the same, but would be more actual murders in the US.

And there is a clear correlation between gun crime and gun control laws when comparing on an international level.

I don't think Chicago having tighter laws can be taken as a good example because its not like there's a national border where they'd pick up via x-ray etc you have a gun so "smuggling" in from other US areas would be easy as heck; and things vary from city to city everywhere it does depend on the culture of that place. No doubt tighter gun laws for Chicago stemmed from the murder/gun crime rate in the first place as an attempt to stem it.

 

Even if the entire nation were to get extremely strict gun laws, I doubt there would be much of an affect on murder rate anyway. Just as Sir Squab has said, U.S. already has so many guns. Laws now would not likely change anything. This country has a differently mentality with guns. Many people feel it is their right (well that's also because it is), and to take away their guns is to take away their freedom. And then we would have the problem with people smuggling guns from Mexico. Which at the moment isn't much of a problem when you consider the drugs that are smuggled through. I am not saying in theory Gun laws fail. I am saying in practice they will.

[obfuscator]

This is only big news because it's at VTech.

[Jonanananas]

Whether gun laws help depends on the situation.

 

Against crimes like robbery, long-planned murder etc. they won't help. Even with gun laws, you're getting your gun somewhere. If you want one, you'll get one, no matter how restrictive the laws are.

 

However...gun laws can help with crimes that happen out of affect. Say, an argument between a couple that gets out of hand. If you have a gun lying nearby and one of them gets his hand on it, the chances that he'll be able to kill the other partner are far higher than if he's limited to a knife or something.

 

The point that culture plays a role is very important too - I've read an article some time ago, comparing the USA and Canada, who have somewhat similar gun laws, yet the gun-connected crime rate is far lower than in the US. I don't have any real statistics on this though, and not sure where i read it. Too lazy to look for it.

[obfuscator]

Whether gun laws help depends on the situation.

 

Against crimes like robbery, long-planned murder etc. they won't help. Even with gun laws, you're getting your gun somewhere. If you want one, you'll get one, no matter how restrictive the laws are.

 

However...gun laws can help with crimes that happen out of affect. Say, an argument between a couple that gets out of hand. If you have a gun lying nearby and one of them gets his hand on it, the chances that he'll be able to kill the other partner are far higher than if he's limited to a knife or something.

 

The point that culture plays a role is very important too - I've read an article some time ago, comparing the USA and Canada, who have somewhat similar gun laws, yet the gun-connected crime rate is far lower than in the US. I don't have any real statistics on this though, and not sure where i read it. Too lazy to look for it.

There is nothing similar about Canadian and American gun laws.

[Sy_Accursed]

Oh I totally get gun law changes would certainly not get US anywhere near countries like UK in terms of guns in circulation and guncrime; at least it'd take several generations for the effects to bleed into effect and thats if it worked at all. But it is a sad fact about American psyche that most would argue gun laws are good as it gives them the means to protect their family, yet cannot see that one of the biggest threats is gun crime which would/could be heavily minimised if people did not have the guns for their protection in the first place. I remember reading somewhere that like 70% of murders in the home in the US are performed with the victims own gun which really shows how "safe" they make you.

[Giordano]

Guns don't kill people, I DO!

 

 

That is my argument.

[H2PM]

"Guns don't kill people. Uh uh. I kill people. Click click. With guns. Pow."

[Ginger_Warrior]

Let's not do this as two families are currently grieving. Whether it was with a gun, cancer or suicide, allow some time first.

[Albel]

This is only big news because it's at VTech.

That and it's the third shooting in like six years right?

 

I live an hour from VT and once thought about going there. It really is scary to think about all that has happened in the past few years there. I was actually on their campus like two weeks ago.

[sees_all1]

Tragedy involving a firearm occurs,

"We must BAN GUNS!"

 

Are you even trying to make a rational argument anymore?

[Jonanananas]

Tragedy involving a firearm occurs,

"We must BAN GUNS!"

 

Are you even trying to make a rational argument anymore?

 

It wouldn't be a rational argument if we used that particular incident as a reason that guns must be banned. But nobody thus far has done that. It just brings up the topic again.

 

It's the same as arguing against nuclear power after Fukushima. The accident itself shouldn't be the argument - but it brings up the topic again.

[aspeeder]

Guns don't kill people, bullets do.

[Range_This11]

This kind of stuff must really hurt VT's public relations. I can't imagine people are flocking to a place that's been shot up twice in a decade.