Prosititution

[Shiny]

The thread idea was spurned first by an article Ginger Warrior posted. The article: www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13470731. Given the article provided no context for the prostitutes, and didn't divulge whether they were, in Racheya's words, "kidnapped" or not, I personally saw no moral qualm with the action taken by the insurance company. Which further led me to think, what is the general Tip.it consensus on prostitution? What about the issues surrounding prostitution such as sexual and physical violence, diseases, hard drug use and underage prostitution? Do you think our western society does enough to actively prevent these aspects of the 'trade'?

 

 

For me, I take the stance that an adult should be allowed to sell their body for sexual service, given it is consensual. Obviously, I think this is a very basic answer, and does not take into account some of the other issues surrounding prostitution, but that, at least is where my answer starts. Because of it, I think prostitution should be legal, as well as government-regulated. 4 [garden tools] to a house, condoms at all times.

 

Where does your view lie?

[Powerfrog]

Prostitution is just a more efficient means to buying a girl drinks at a bar.

 

If it weren't for the diseases and every other negative thing you mentioned, i believe it would be very popular but still not something you'd admit to in public, similar to masturbating.

[Sy_Accursed]

I always find it weird:

Paying someone to have sex with you = prostitute = illegal in most countries.

Paying someone to have sex with you AND filming it = porn star = legal in most countries.

[Jonanananas]

I always find it weird:

Paying someone to have sex with you = prostitute = illegal in most countries.

Paying someone to have sex with you AND filming it = porn star = legal in most countries.

 

Well, first of all, I wouldn't say there are that many countries where porn is legal but prostituion is not. At least, I couldn't think of any such country off the top of my head.

However, even then it's not that weird. The problem with prostitution is that there's a lot of abuse going on, down to kidnapping and rape. This is not so much the case with pornography.

 

 

Overall - I think it should be allowed, firstly simply because it's a personal decision and the state shouldn't restrict that freedom if possible, and secondly because the problems associated with it would probably just get bigger if it was outlawed. There need to be heavier regulations and more controls though I think.

[obfuscator]

I think it's unfortunate, pathetic and immoral, but I don't think it should be illegal.

[The Observer]

There's a difference between prostitution by choice, and those that are forced into it. Obviously the latter shouldn't be allowed, but it happens anyway.^[1]

 

I believe that it should be legal as long as it is consensual. As Sy_Accursed says, it happens anyway with pornography. I'm not exactly a fan of it morally, but I don't see why it should be illegal.

[Sy_Accursed]

I always find it weird:

Paying someone to have sex with you = prostitute = illegal in most countries.

Paying someone to have sex with you AND filming it = porn star = legal in most countries.

 

Well, first of all, I wouldn't say there are that many countries where porn is legal but prostituion is not. At least, I couldn't think of any such country off the top of my head.

 

Lol wut?

 

Nearly every country in the western world exports and makes masses of porn and it is perfectly legal.

And nearly all those same countries prostitution is illegal.

 

UK is an example, USA I'm fairly certain this also applies in most states.

There's only a few highly religious countries where porn making is illegal, but prostitution is illegal in most countries.

[Bxpprod]

Legalise it. Control it. Tax it.

 

As much as I hate "big government", if they were to regulate it and provide protection to workers, then it would bring it a lot of money for the government through taxation, whilst providing safety nets for workers (and "Johns"). IE: Mandatory health checks (HIV etc), safe environments etc etc.

 

Whilst one may not consider it to be a "morally upstanding" thing to partake in (either as a worker or as a 'buyer'), it is an industry that has stood firm for many, many years. And it is something that could potentially bring heavy revenue for a government that could be spent on health...etc.

 

 

THAT SAID. It'll never happen. Society is stuck in the mindset of it's immoral and bad. And that's a shame. But. Yeah.

[Racheya]

I'm fine with women who do it by choice - and I mean choice. Some of the more high class 'escorts' and such I have read are probably more likely in this by choice. But the sort of women you might find in dingy brothels are far more likely to have trafficked from another country and it's that sort of thing that's the problem - not the sale of sex it'self, but the exploitation of women that can go on around it.

[Kirschen]

Legalise it. Control it. Tax it.

 

As much as I hate "big government", if they were to regulate it and provide protection to workers, then it would bring it a lot of money for the government through taxation, whilst providing safety nets for workers (and "Johns"). IE: Mandatory health checks (HIV etc), safe environments etc etc.

 

Whilst one may not consider it to be a "morally upstanding" thing to partake in (either as a worker or as a 'buyer'), it is an industry that has stood firm for many, many years. And it is something that could potentially bring heavy revenue for a government that could be spent on health...etc.

 

 

THAT SAID. It'll never happen. Society is stuck in the mindset of it's immoral and bad. And that's a shame. But. Yeah.

 

I agree with the fact that it should be controlled heavily if legalized and that Society is essentially not going to change into that direction for a LONG while, which is why I am not a fan of traditional thinking to begin with. As for my viewpoint of the profession itself, I am neutral on it because it's their bodies and they can use it how they like as long as they don't harm others.

 

"Many, many years" doesn't even describe how long prostitution has been around since it's know it was used for religious and spiritual purposes back in the ancient world.

[Sy_Accursed]

I'm fine with women who do it by choice - and I mean choice. Some of the more high class 'escorts' and such I have read are probably more likely in this by choice. But the sort of women you might find in dingy brothels are far more likely to have trafficked from another country and it's that sort of thing that's the problem - not the sale of sex it'self, but the exploitation of women that can go on around it.

 

While I agree with you sentiments is it not rather archaic to think of it solely in terms of women's exploitation?

There's male escorts and prostitutes too that are subject to the same issues and exploitations and its not even like its a minority there's a good 50:50 split male female in prostitution these days.

 

And the other peoples points about its age is so true, its known as the oldest profession for a reason. It literally is the oldest profession known on records that still exists, from Ancient Greece to Rome all of em had brothels and prostitutes. In-fact it was even more culturally in-grained, like how ancient greeks offered their son's up to be buggered by the adult men as a right of passage and all that.

[obfuscator]

Legalise it. Control it. Tax it.

 

As much as I hate "big government", if they were to regulate it and provide protection to workers, then it would bring it a lot of money for the government through taxation, whilst providing safety nets for workers (and "Johns"). IE: Mandatory health checks (HIV etc), safe environments etc etc.

 

Whilst one may not consider it to be a "morally upstanding" thing to partake in (either as a worker or as a 'buyer'), it is an industry that has stood firm for many, many years. And it is something that could potentially bring heavy revenue for a government that could be spent on health...etc.

 

 

THAT SAID. It'll never happen. Society is stuck in the mindset of it's immoral and bad. And that's a shame. But. Yeah.

 

I agree with the fact that it should be controlled heavily if legalized and that Society is essentially not going to change into that direction for a LONG while, which is why I am not a fan of traditional thinking to begin with. As for my viewpoint of the profession itself, I am neutral on it because it's their bodies and they can use it how they like as long as they don't harm others.

 

"Many, many years" doesn't even describe how long prostitution has been around since it's know it was used for religious and spiritual purposes back in the ancient world.

 

I'm sure prostitution began to exist as soon as the concept of payment for services was invented.

[Kirschen]

Legalise it. Control it. Tax it.

 

As much as I hate "big government", if they were to regulate it and provide protection to workers, then it would bring it a lot of money for the government through taxation, whilst providing safety nets for workers (and "Johns"). IE: Mandatory health checks (HIV etc), safe environments etc etc.

 

Whilst one may not consider it to be a "morally upstanding" thing to partake in (either as a worker or as a 'buyer'), it is an industry that has stood firm for many, many years. And it is something that could potentially bring heavy revenue for a government that could be spent on health...etc.

 

 

THAT SAID. It'll never happen. Society is stuck in the mindset of it's immoral and bad. And that's a shame. But. Yeah.

 

I agree with the fact that it should be controlled heavily if legalized and that Society is essentially not going to change into that direction for a LONG while, which is why I am not a fan of traditional thinking to begin with. As for my viewpoint of the profession itself, I am neutral on it because it's their bodies and they can use it how they like as long as they don't harm others.

 

"Many, many years" doesn't even describe how long prostitution has been around since it's know it was used for religious and spiritual purposes back in the ancient world.

 

I'm sure prostitution began to exist as soon as the concept of payment for services was invented.

 

I am only going on the earliest record I am aware of, but you aren't far from the truth since that is how most of our controversial and illegal practices were created.

[Racheya]

I'm fine with women who do it by choice - and I mean choice. Some of the more high class 'escorts' and such I have read are probably more likely in this by choice. But the sort of women you might find in dingy brothels are far more likely to have trafficked from another country and it's that sort of thing that's the problem - not the sale of sex it'self, but the exploitation of women that can go on around it.

 

While I agree with you sentiments is it not rather archaic to think of it solely in terms of women's exploitation?

There's male escorts and prostitutes too that are subject to the same issues and exploitations and its not even like its a minority there's a good 50:50 split male female in prostitution these days.

 

And the other peoples points about its age is so true, its known as the oldest profession for a reason. It literally is the oldest profession known on records that still exists, from Ancient Greece to Rome all of em had brothels and prostitutes. In-fact it was even more culturally in-grained, like how ancient greeks offered their son's up to be buggered by the adult men as a right of passage and all that.

That is actually an interesting point you made :P It is interesting how when you think of prostitution you almost never think of men. I wouldn't be so sure that it's a 50:50 split since I reckon the demand for female prostitutes is higher than male ones. In any case, the exploitation of all prostitutes is the problem.

[Crocefisso]

I think it's unfortunate, pathetic and immoral, but I don't think it should be illegal.

My view exactly.

[Sy_Accursed]

I really don't see why people find it immoral. It no more or less immoral than paying for any good or service, sure you could come up with arguments of "selling yourself" but you do that anyway in any industry. Work is gained and performed by selling yourself; your energy, you intellect, your skills, your time its the commodity we all sell to earn a wage.

 

Perhaps a religious argument could surface, but I find using religion as a moral compass beyond the obvious good and bad flawed because people always pick and chose which moral distinctions to apply from their books. After all holy books sanctify all sorts of stuff as "moral" like stoning to death people who wear clothes intermixed fabrics, killing your wife is she shaves her legs etc. Why can these be written off and ignored as moral guidance due to being out of date yet other specifics held up, when they are just as outdated?

And tbh you don't need religion, as some may argue, to have a basic moral compass; just cause I don't particularly buy into a deity figure off in the sky doesn't mean I am incapable of knowing right from wrong.

[Powerfrog]

I agree, i don't understand why people are acting so stuck up. You have a partner (Whom you technically pay a large amount of money to, breadwinner) and that's great. But not everyone does. If someone can be paid for doing what they love while providing pleasure or entertainment to someone else, isn't everyone a winner?

 

I'd personally love the opportunity to be a legal, safe, prostitute. :P

[Ginger_Warrior]

I didn't check that post. Did I cause a [bleep]storm?

 

Personally, I find our society's attitude towards sex to be utterly contradictory. On the one hand, the greatest pieces of art in history, made during the Renaissance period, depict images of naked women, usually that of the messiah's own virgin mother. On the other hand, if eyes were daggers, any man reading a copy of FHM on public transport would be murdered about twenty times over before reaching their destination. We take no real issue when a younger woman marries an older man ('gold-digging' is almost accepted as being OK since it's the man's own fault), but young men finding older women attractive is a sure sign of a rapist looking for a vulnerable victim. It's seen as more natural for men to have sex underage than women, and on some school playgrounds, it's even a lightning rod for bullying. I could go on pointing towards such contradictions where for one group is society, action A is fine, but for another, it's completely wrong. We have a very immature and poorly formed attitude towards the concept of two people having sex with each other

 

The best example of said contradiction, however, comes with the issue of prostitution. As a young woman (or man, but for argument's sake...), you are allowed to have sex, browse the Internet and newspapers for sex, depict yourself in a sexual context including nudity and publish it on just about any medium, strip naked for money and augment sexual features of your body to appear more attractive. You are also allowed to film yourself having sex with another person, and providing that interaction is consensual for both parties, another company is allowed to purchase the rights to that tape from you, for money. You could even make a career out of other people filming you having sex with 'strangers' in a non-romantic or reproductive manner, for a third party's masturbatory satisfaction. However, if you have sex with a stranger in exchange for money in a direct, non-taxable, cash-in-hand transaction, suddenly everyone has a problem with that you're doing.

 

Intellectually, I see no difference between the pornographic industry, which is itself massive, and totally legal within constraints, and prostitution. Both involve one party receiving money to have sex with another party. The only difference I see is one activity is taxable, and the other is not due to its illegal nature.

[Ieyfura]

It's their body. Let them do whatever with it imo. As long as they aren't forced into it, it is completely up to them.

[Kimberly]

As a pre-emptive warning: please do not turn this into a religious debate. There's a place for that, and this thread is not that place. It will help this debate be more original and interesting ;)

[K4ylan]

I some countries where prostitution is legal, the girls are trained, take health classes to be safe, and get tested regularly. I'm sure if we did the same thing in the US, it would work out wonderfully, but it would go against all social norms.

[Sy_Accursed]

I some countries where prostitution is legal, the girls are trained, take health classes to be safe, and get tested regularly. I'm sure if we did the same thing in the US, it would work out wonderfully, but it would go against all social norms.

 

I'd query your use of "social norms"

Prostitution is an ancient and widespread practice, regardless of laws, so is it not already a social norm that it happens?

Plus I can't think of a social norm it would effect to change laws on it, cultural expectations/constructs certainly, but hardly altering a social norm, merely transferring it from the illegal side of the law to the legal side.

[/devil's advocate]

[Kimberly]

Prostitution is an ancient and widespread practice, regardless of laws, so is it not already a social norm that it happens?

 

It's a social norm because it's common in American society to view prostitution as a bad thing. L2Devils Advocate

[Vezon Dash]

I some countries where prostitution is legal, the girls are trained, take health classes to be safe, and get tested regularly. I'm sure if we did the same thing in the US, it would work out wonderfully, but it would go against all social norms.

 

I support what K4ylan says.

[GrandZephyr]

I haven't had what I felt was much constructive comments for this thread, but I was wondering something.

Not to go way off topic here, but for those making the argument of "It's their bodies let them do what they want with them?".

 

If that logic was correct, then wouldn't that suggest we need to legalize all drugs as well?

 

As for the arguments of "Legalized it, but tax and regulate it". What if the decision to make it illegal stems from a belief or observation it would be fiscally, or some other quantitative measure, better to make it illegal than to organize the regulation and taxation of it?

 

This isn't saying that either ideas aren't valid. Although, I'm curious if either of the things I said above may have any accuracy.