120 Constitution?

[Quyneax]

I would prefer level 120 in all skills, would make it really difficult and fairly rare to be maxed in a skill.

If you needed 104m xp in each skill to be maxed, no current account would be maxed, and about 6 people have the xp equal to that max, but mainly in fast skills. Making max total rarer than trimmed comp already is doesn't serve any purpose but to give the most dedicated grinders something to aim for that isn't a minigame.

and is that really a bad thing? Would mean people are more dedicated to certain skills, rather than everyone being level due to having all 99s.

Although with that I am sure we would see a rush of 120 strength capes appearing.

Why would it mean people would be dedicated to certain skills?

 

If anything, those people who played for max will give up their goal in 99% of the cases, myself included.

[999134]

but then why not play to max your one favorite skill instead?

[Quyneax]

but then why not play to max your one favorite skill instead?

Because I want to finish the game, because I like all skills, because I dislike a skill after more than 20m xp? Can you accept that 104m xp in one skill is NOT the same as 13m xp in 8 skills?

[999134]

Getting a 120 would probably be far easier than all 99 stats, even 120 rc would probably be. There will be nothing stopping you from keeping you levels even, but it gives you the choice to train a few stats up that you enjoy more above level 99, which really is not that much time especially in skills like prayer fc or fletching.

 

it also allows for far more reason to train a skill after 13m xp, atm there is no reason aside from a highscores rank.

[Themooingcow666]

i think all 120's would be a wonderful idea, not just for the fact of the maxed players having more to do and for me feeling sattisfied once reaching my goal, it would also allow for some new super-high level content, like let's say for mining, from 99-120 there's a new ore "Dragon ore" which they ALREADY said there going to implement, and than with each level after that make rune/dragon ore easier to mine out of the rock and faster too.

[999134]

source for dragon ore, find that unbelievable.

[Mercifull]

You are kinda right about specs being removed from weapons. At RuneFest they said they were making a new special attack thing and if you use it with certain weapons they do different effects. Kinda hard to explain because it's a bit like chinese whisper (i didn't really understand what they were trying to say at runefest). Try and find the session on youtube, it was the final one on sunday on the small stage.

[@Dan3HitU]

You are kinda right about specs being removed from weapons. At RuneFest they said they were making a new special attack thing and if you use it with certain weapons they do different effects. Kinda hard to explain because it's a bit like chinese whisper (i didn't really understand what they were trying to say at runefest). Try and find the session on youtube, it was the final one on sunday on the small stage.

I think I know what you mean, I was told something like this as an example (it could be wrong).

 

You're punching (you have no weapon) and you click your special attack bar, and you do a combo, something like 2 hits followed by an uppercut (similar to the Attack-cape emote), except it'll work with almost all weapons, nothing major like 50% damage hit or something like that but something minor but better than what's already out there visually.

[Quyneax]

Getting a 120 would probably be far easier than all 99 stats, even 120 rc would probably be. There will be nothing stopping you from keeping you levels even, but it gives you the choice to train a few stats up that you enjoy more above level 99, which really is not that much time especially in skills like prayer fc or fletching.

 

it also allows for far more reason to train a skill after 13m xp, atm there is no reason aside from a highscores rank.

I don't see why ease is relevant...? I don't need the game to be easy (e.g. requiring little time). You basically ignored by points: I want to finish the game, and I do not want to have to gain that much xp. It comes down to what you find a suitable amount of effort for 'max'. Since it currently stands at about 200 days of pure playtime to get a trimmed comp cape, more realistically 300+ days, I'd say that's quite enough. Skills get faster and more requirements get added, balancing eachother out. Given that maybe ten people actually have a trimmed completionist cape, I would say it's a fair 'max'.

 

Reasons for doing a skill after 99 should be focused on money-making, special items/abilities/areas or boosts in other skills or minigames (combat/dungeoneering, for example). Not even more grind. Congratulations, you are now 100 firemaking! Guess what? You can now gain even more firemaking xp. You must be so happy. I don't see why you would want the game to provide a reason to level past 99. You just assume it's obviously better but it isn't. An end to grind in a game, that has a lot of precedent, also in the mmorpg genre. RuneScape is exceptional in this already. And people (players) complain about it.

[Powerfrog]

Getting a 120 would probably be far easier than all 99 stats, even 120 rc would probably be. There will be nothing stopping you from keeping you levels even, but it gives you the choice to train a few stats up that you enjoy more above level 99, which really is not that much time especially in skills like prayer fc or fletching.

 

it also allows for far more reason to train a skill after 13m xp, atm there is no reason aside from a highscores rank.

I don't see why ease is relevant...? I don't need the game to be easy (e.g. requiring little time). You basically ignored by points: I want to finish the game, and I do not want to have to gain that much xp. It comes down to what you find a suitable amount of effort for 'max'. Since it currently stands at about 200 days of pure playtime to get a trimmed comp cape, more realistically 300+ days, I'd say that's quite enough. Skills get faster and more requirements get added, balancing eachother out. Given that maybe ten people actually have a trimmed completionist cape, I would say it's a fair 'max'.

 

Reasons for doing a skill after 99 should be focused on money-making, special items/abilities/areas or boosts in other skills or minigames (combat/dungeoneering, for example). Not even more grind. Congratulations, you are now 100 firemaking! Guess what? You can now gain even more firemaking xp. You must be so happy. I don't see why you would want the game to provide a reason to level past 99. You just assume it's obviously better but it isn't. An end to grind in a game, that has a lot of precedent, also in the mmorpg genre. RuneScape is exceptional in this already. And people (players) complain about it.

That's the thing though. MMOs are not supposed to be 'finished'. They're supposed to update every time you get close, like this idea is intending. Runescape has pretty much died and fails to do this, while it's playbase, for some bizzare reason, continue to play more than ever.

 

If you really only play so you can finish, i'd bet you're not having much fun doing it, and when you finally do it you'll get a horrible sinking feeling that you've got nothing worth doing anymore. Runescape has no end game content. You can grind 2b in a few weeks and buy max gear, or more likely, already have it long before you max, then what? You attempt stupid things like no food nex because nothing else is fun anymore, you get bored of this in a while and quit the game, wishing there was more to do and you had more skills to train.

 

Also: Why do you care about the technical finish line? If your current goal is to get 99 in every skill, and then the max level is boosted to 120, just get 99 and be done with it. It won't even effect you, other than making your already meaningless accomplishment seem even less meaningful.

 

(Sorry is that seemed a bit personal. I'm mearly trying to say that MMOs should not have a finish line or end goal other than your own personal ones you assign yourself.)

[Quyneax]

MMOs should have a finish line of the grind. Not the game. Just the grind.

 

I care because it feels good to finish a goal. And since I set my goal to max total/comp cape, I would most likely be denied that feeling if stats were increased to 120. Not to mention thousands of people who find 2496 total just about managable.

[Marduk_God]

How would one go about reconciling the two seemingly opposed sentiments that are becoming more and more prevalent nowadays? A not insignificant portion of the playerbase is taking a stance against 'the grind' (and not without just cause, I should think) whereas on the other hand we have a growing number of people who have reached 99 in an increasing number of skills, who wish for the level cap to be raised to 120.

 

In themselves, they're two perfectly valid sentiments, of course. I say they're 'seemingly opposed' because they're really two different things. People advocating a decrease of the grind aren't necessarily asking for skills to become easier to attain; they're instead asking for a decrease in the number of repetitive actions required to attain those skills. Make gameplay more interesting, so to say - but not easier.

 

Conversely, I'm not entirely convinced of the merits of raising the level cap to 120, without changes to the gameplay (how one gains xp) as well. I don't really buy the argument that the level cap should be raised only because more and more have attained the 'max' level, if only for the reason that it doesn't actually solve anything. What if more and more people attain level 120 in skills in ten years time? Increase the level cap once more? Seems like a never-ending alley we'd be entering here. Point being: by merely increasing the level cap one is merely postponing the inevitable. A raise of the level cap (which I'm not against per say) should, in my opinion, coincide with an overhaul of the gameplay (how one goes about gaining xp). Don't make skills easier to train, but make them more interesting.

 

I don't wish to turn this into another debate about 'the grind', however - we've seen enough of those already. I'd like to see a raise of the level cap to 120 as well, but in a way so that it doesn't actually increase the grind (which can be quite burdensome as it is). There needs to be a delicate balance between both sentiments.

[Sy_Accursed]

You are kinda right about specs being removed from weapons. At RuneFest they said they were making a new special attack thing and if you use it with certain weapons they do different effects. Kinda hard to explain because it's a bit like chinese whisper (i didn't really understand what they were trying to say at runefest). Try and find the session on youtube, it was the final one on sunday on the small stage.

I think I know what you mean, I was told something like this as an example (it could be wrong).

 

You're punching (you have no weapon) and you click your special attack bar, and you do a combo, something like 2 hits followed by an uppercut (similar to the Attack-cape emote), except it'll work with almost all weapons, nothing major like 50% damage hit or something like that but something minor but better than what's already out there visually.

 

From what I saw this combined with the combat hotbar and it was actually that at specific attack levels and defence levels etc. you go specific special abilities, be it defensive or an attack that you could apply to the combat bar to be able to use.

 

An example they gave being at 50(?) defence getting one that blocked all damage for like 30 seconds.

[Tim]

They did say that soak was a terribly designed mechanic, and they wished that they'd never put it in in the first place. As for replacing soak, I assume they'll do that in the eventual overhaul of all the combat equipment.

I hope so. Soaking was not only useless, but to me, someone who treasures from high defence, it proved to be utterly useless unless I wore Torva/PvP Armour, which is retardedly expensive for someone who doesnt have much of a income and cannot boss for cash as I get outhit by everyone, even at 133 due ot the lack of Turmoil/OVLS.

[Huzzah]

I honestly hope they never raise stats above 99 simply because I feel 104m exp is a lot to ask from an adverage player.

 

I can understand why some of the top few would enjoy it but I don't believe the game should be based around them. Not everyone has the time to put into the game that they have and its not like their accomplishments arent respected as is. I mean I even get reactions and I'm only 36m range exp.

[Powerfrog]

I honestly hope they never raise stats above 99 simply because I feel 104m exp is a lot to ask from an adverage player.

 

I can understand why some of the top few would enjoy it but I don't believe the game should be based around them. Not everyone has the time to put into the game that they have and its not like their accomplishments arent respected as is. I mean I even get reactions and I'm only 36m range exp.

The average player should never reach the maximum level though. Thats kinda the point.

 

All those 200m xp no lifers would still get 120, but the rest of people would get 80-100 and then eventually quit, like it's always been. There being a 120 cap does not make the game based on the top few. It makes the game based on the levels 3s all the way to the top few, like it should be.

 

And this has nothing to do with respecting peoples accomplisments, it's about making the road to those accomplishments worth something. Low levels train 60 attack so they can use a dragon dagger. High levels train 99 attack for a small accuracy increase over 80. Extremists train 200m attack experience because they're clinging onto the game and have nothing better to do.

[Quyneax]

If the average player should never reach maximum level, the game currently works just fine. Don't need 120s for that.

[Powerfrog]

If the average player should never reach maximum level, the game currently works just fine. Don't need 120s for that.

You say that, but there are currently loads of maxed or near maxed players.

 

If 120 stats came you'd still have max cape, all 99's.

Comp cape would just become a lot more work. (It already has 5k castle war games needed for trimmed so 120 stats isn't as crazy as they already think we are.)

[Huzzah]

Loads? What % of players around is maxed? Id say the majority of players by far, currently and in the future, are far from ever neededing skills increased to have setable goals.

 

I don't believe Jagex should spend tons of time re-designing everything to suit the top 3-5% of players, if theres even that much.

[Quyneax]

If the average player should never reach maximum level, the game currently works just fine. Don't need 120s for that.

You say that, but there are currently loads of maxed or near maxed players.

 

If 120 stats came you'd still have max cape, all 99's.

Comp cape would just become a lot more work. (It already has 5k castle war games needed for trimmed so 120 stats isn't as crazy as they already think we are.)

Except that 120s stats take far, far longer than 5k cwars games. About 10x as long.

 

There are currently about 1000 people with a comp cape with about 40k+ players on at a given time. That's how many, 300-500k unique accounts? RS has less than a percent maxed players, and less than one percent of a percent of trimmed comp capes.

[Powerfrog]

If the average player should never reach maximum level, the game currently works just fine. Don't need 120s for that.

You say that, but there are currently loads of maxed or near maxed players.

 

If 120 stats came you'd still have max cape, all 99's.

Comp cape would just become a lot more work. (It already has 5k castle war games needed for trimmed so 120 stats isn't as crazy as they already think we are.)

Except that 120s stats take far, far longer than 5k cwars games. About 10x as long.

 

There are currently about 1000 people with a comp cape with about 40k+ players on at a given time. That's how many, 300-500k unique accounts? RS has less than a percent maxed players, and less than one percent of a percent of trimmed comp capes.

5k cwar games takes 1666 hours of gameplay. 104m Runecrafting only takes 2000, less when you count effigies and all the other passive methods used for it. Not to mention the much faster 100+ level training methods there will be. Most other skills take anywhere from 150-1500 hours at current xp rates. You can half that with good high level content.

 

I really dislike this argument point to be perfectly honest though. 5k cwar games was a rediculous requirement, and i shouldn't use it to justify other things. But in this case, we're talking about 24 different skills with added content. I think it's a much less rediculous and much more enjoyable requirment than the 5k cwar games.

[Quyneax]

Except that Castle Wars can be boosted, much like powertraining, at about 3x the rate of playing (e.g. 7.5 games per hour, 700 hours for the lot) - I think that 7000 hours for current max total to all 120s is quite fast already. And even then, only a few dozen people actually have 5000 games played, let alone all champions defeated etc.. My point isn't that it takes long. It's that people don't get it very often. Even the supreme Castle Wars lovers don't often play 5000 games over the course of their scaping career. Similarly, not even the greatest xp-lovers gain 104m xp in a stat very often, let alone multiple.

 

Your reason for preferring 120 stats is that max total becomes rare again. My point is that max total is already rare, and that considering the 'ultimate' max in the game is even rarer to the point of only a dozen people having achieved it (one person at release even) the game can go on for a very long time before max needs to made 'elite' once more. There is no point in making the end game unachievable. If you want a game where the ultimate maximum perfection is extremely über rare, go play Pacman.

[Powerfrog]

Except that Castle Wars can be boosted, much like powertraining, at about 3x the rate of playing (e.g. 7.5 games per hour, 700 hours for the lot) - I think that 7000 hours for current max total to all 120s is quite fast already. And even then, only a few dozen people actually have 5000 games played, let alone all champions defeated etc.. My point isn't that it takes long. It's that people don't get it very often. Even the supreme Castle Wars lovers don't often play 5000 games over the course of their scaping career. Similarly, not even the greatest xp-lovers gain 104m xp in a stat very often, let alone multiple.

 

Your reason for preferring 120 stats is that max total becomes rare again. My point is that max total is already rare, and that considering the 'ultimate' max in the game is even rarer to the point of only a dozen people having achieved it (one person at release even) the game can go on for a very long time before max needs to made 'elite' once more. There is no point in making the end game unachievable. If you want a game where the ultimate maximum perfection is extremely über rare, go play Pacman.

Not many people get 104m in a stat because theres no incentive to, and they are limited to level 99 and below methods and speeds.

 

I stopped training strength once i got 99. If the cap was 120, i'd be shooting towards that instead of training things like defense, doubly so if doing so unlocked a new weapon. Near maxed players do the same, but instead they replace their next skill to train to something they dislike but must do for the sake of completion.

 

You're obsessed with maxing, you shouldn't be. 120 being the level cap doesn't mean you must grind to level 120 instantly. You can go to 110 and enjoy half of the new high level content, get 120 if it suits you. It won't effect you if you don't decide to train, other than pvp and competitive bossing, but the first is fair and the second is how competitive bossing has always been. Your current objections are basically the same as a low level saying 80 should be the level cap, because you personally don't want to get 99. That's selfish and anti-progress.

[la la la]

Since when is RS combat supposed to be balanced around PvP?

And why on earth can you not use overloads pking? Let's go back to caveman-style combat so that pkers don't whine about overloads.

[Quyneax]

Except that Castle Wars can be boosted, much like powertraining, at about 3x the rate of playing (e.g. 7.5 games per hour, 700 hours for the lot) - I think that 7000 hours for current max total to all 120s is quite fast already. And even then, only a few dozen people actually have 5000 games played, let alone all champions defeated etc.. My point isn't that it takes long. It's that people don't get it very often. Even the supreme Castle Wars lovers don't often play 5000 games over the course of their scaping career. Similarly, not even the greatest xp-lovers gain 104m xp in a stat very often, let alone multiple.

 

Your reason for preferring 120 stats is that max total becomes rare again. My point is that max total is already rare, and that considering the 'ultimate' max in the game is even rarer to the point of only a dozen people having achieved it (one person at release even) the game can go on for a very long time before max needs to made 'elite' once more. There is no point in making the end game unachievable. If you want a game where the ultimate maximum perfection is extremely über rare, go play Pacman.

Not many people get 104m in a stat because theres no incentive to, and they are limited to level 99 and below methods and speeds.

 

I stopped training strength once i got 99. If the cap was 120, i'd be shooting towards that instead of training things like defense, doubly so if doing so unlocked a new weapon. Near maxed players do the same, but instead they replace their next skill to train to something they dislike but must do for the sake of completion.

 

You're obsessed with maxing, you shouldn't be. 120 being the level cap doesn't mean you must grind to level 120 instantly. You can go to 110 and enjoy half of the new high level content, get 120 if it suits you. It won't effect you if you don't decide to train, other than pvp and competitive bossing, but the first is fair and the second is how competitive bossing has always been. Your current objections are basically the same as a low level saying 80 should be the level cap, because you personally don't want to get 99. That's selfish and anti-progress.

You're telling me I'm 'obsessed with maxing' and shouldn't be? You dare suggest you know how this game should be played? That's either very arrogant or very silly.

 

Besides you're totally focussed on strength :rolleyes:.

 

The point is that 'getting 110' isn't fun. Not being able to reach content ever, really never ever, that's very discouraging. Not being able to compete is very discouraging. Already lots of people feel that 120 dungeoneering is just way out of reach (especially when dging with w117/w77). 99 runecrafting, or even just 91, is a dream for casual players. You can't just assume everybody who plays this game wishes for the grind to be infinite. Sure there is a tiny fraction of the people who wants hundreds of millions of xp past 99. That fraction will grow massively if you introduce 120s. There will be people who will be awed by the people getting 120s (but perhaps not even more than the current 'virtual' 120s, we can't tell of course). But the main body of RS players will not go for 120 or 'just 110'. And people will feel it's unfair that someone with no job and literally no life can have so much of an advantage over the more casual player. Even more than they already have. Because it's not fun. It's really bad game design (= not fun design) to make a game that requires you give up on college, your job (maybe night guards can play on the job) and your social life to compete.

 

In short, 120 stats are for the most part not fun.

 

By the way, if there isn't a reward for 104m xp/virtual 120, then there isn't a reward for trimmed comp either. Hiscores (cosmetic rewards) apparently don't count.