The Back Room

[Alg]

It already is, over here.

[The_Mather1]

Is it a bad thing that when I heard Stoltenberg was safe and unharmed I immediatly tought "Damnit!"?

[Nexaduro]

The map for a starter removes the destructive route, because of it I can't just break a hole through a wall to make an entrance. It also removes the creative route which is made even worse by the 3rd-person, top-down point of view, because you have to kill that monster yourself, you can't just tip a column onto it or destroy the ground beneath its feet.

Then there's the character sheet, which is more than anything just a reminder that you can try all you want, but you can't do everything. Sure, a name and a species may be useful information, but the class set it basically just a "[bleep] you!" to people like me who like to change combat-style along the way. Then there's age, height, weight, etc., why the [bleep] does it need that? Those questions are just a waste of time and space. Then you have to read through two different lists which tell you what your character could do, then you have to chose just a very few of then, again just a "[bleep] you!" to people with my playing style. Then finally it's the equipment, sure, that axe was made according to some dwarfish tradition, but why the hell can't a human wield it? It makes no sense at all.

 

I am speaking out of experience, not a hunch, when I say I by far enjoy trips to the dentist more than playing DnD.

Okay. You, and those arguing against you, all seem to be missing a major point here.

 

SAVAGE WORLDS IS NOT D&D.

 

There may very well not be a map depending on how Wyvren runs it, and he may very well have rules available or in mind for breaking down walls and such things. If it's physically reasonable, you probably will be able to destroy columns or... the ground. There are no classes. Secondary things like age and height probably aren't necessary, but they make sense for your character to have and show others what you want them to see (though we already know what you look like, and your characters are usually... you). Skills don't preclude you from trying (except for psionics and things that not everyone could do in the first place), they just measure how likely it is that you succeed, and points in said skills give you a better chance. Fighting is a single skill, and covers every weapon your character is physically capable of lifting.

 

Your 'playing style' always struck me as you playing God and hoping the moderator doesn't mind. While I wouldn't encourage that, Savage Worlds allows you to take fricking superpowers, so I don't think there should really be any conflict here.

[The_Mather1]

Make that 'playing to make yourself a demi-god' and I agree, I do seek power but at least I do it some other way than 'find op stuff' aka Earth and 'grind, grind, grind' aka Retech, I try to make my own stuff and do things that are entertaining as well.

 

Also the warping I did in Dungeoneering 2 was not trying to gain power, it was first 'get me the hell outta here' and then 'let me help you with that'.

[Grim_]

Hehehe, just started playing EUIII again, and I forgot exactly how much fun [bleep]ing around while waiting for your colonial ventures to come in is. Especially when playing as portugal allied with castille. It gets even more fun when you have the pope under your command; I started randomly excommunicating the tiny one province nations in germany.

[Nexaduro]

So, guess I found one of the most horrific animes ever made.

[Corvus]

If you haven't noticed, I'm not the kind who gives up on something because it's a lot of work or requires thinking, heck I love to play complicated games as long as they don't put me off in an other way. What I hate about DnD is the limiting characters and the very aspect of it that makes it a tabletop game.

The map for a starter removes the destructive route, because of it I can't just break a hole through a wall to make an entrance. It also removes the creative route which is made even worse by the 3rd-person, top-down point of view, because you have to kill that monster yourself, you can't just tip a column onto it or destroy the ground beneath its feet.

Then there's the character sheet, which is more than anything just a reminder that you can try all you want, but you can't do everything. Sure, a name and a species may be useful information, but the class set it basically just a "[bleep] you!" to people like me who like to change combat-style along the way. Then there's age, height, weight, etc., why the [bleep] does it need that? Those questions are just a waste of time and space. Then you have to read through two different lists which tell you what your character could do, then you have to chose just a very few of then, again just a "[bleep] you!" to people with my playing style. Then finally it's the equipment, sure, that axe was made according to some dwarfish tradition, but why the hell can't a human wield it? It makes no sense at all.

 

I am speaking out of experience, not a hunch, when I say I by far enjoy trips to the dentist more than playing DnD.

Destructive Route: I am prefectly fine with players using the Destructive route in encounters even if it is not what I had intended. Though in order for me to allow it you actually have to go into detail about using the destructive route so I actually know what you are doing:

[spoiler=Bad Example]Player: "I knock the large pillar down on top of the sleeping Red Dragon"

DM: "You cannot possibly knock that load bearing pillar down on top of the Dragon, its far too strong."

 

or

 

Player: "I destroy the bridge underneath the stone golem"

DM: "You cannot just straight up destroy the bridge"

 

[spoiler=Good Example]Player: "I use an acid bomb on the base of the pillar hoping to knock the pillar down on top of the sleeping Red Dragon."

DM: "You quickly place the acid bomb before retreating as quickly as you can... when you are roughly 60' away the acid bomb goes off, and while it has not brought the pillar down (rolls knowledge architecture and engineering for the PC, meets the DC) the pillar is starting to crumble under the load of the ceiling and if given a strong shove it will likely come down upon the dragon and bring a sizeable section of the ceiling down with it. (rolls perception/listen for the dragon, it makes the DC) Unfortunately your acid bomb going off has awoken the dragon. As the Dragon is hardly aware of what is going on having just awoken you get a surpise round before we begin the normal combat rounds."

Player: "I begin heading back to the pillar in hopes of actually bringing it down on the dragon. (Player gets a higher result than the Dragon on the first round Iniative test) Before the dragon can react I race to the pillar and push it as hard as I can towards the dragon" (makes the strength check to knock the pillar down)

DM: "the pillar fails quite quickly with your efforts to push it down, and it impacts the dragon with sickening crunch and pins the dragon to the floor. However the unsupported ceiling also gives out and comes crashing down in a cave-in on both you and the dragon..."

 

or

 

Player: "I cast disintigrate on the Stone bridge directly under the Stone golem"

DM: "With the sudden destruction of the bridge underneath it the Stone golem falls through the bridge towards the city beneath, and you hear a loud thud several seconds later as it impacts on something below."

 

 

The rest:

Classes in D&D, Skills and feats/edges in almost all table top RPGs represents months or years of training and practice in the subject, so while you may like switching up styles your individual talents in that case would be far below what they represent in terms of character benefits. So to put it simply the restrictions on taking abilities is because its not possible to be a master at everything (barring being a god), so either you end up being very good at a few things at the expense of others, or you end up being mediocre in everything.

The equipment issue is that certain weapons are traditionally used by certain societies, and as such during their upbringing most members of that society who are trained for military service have had instruction in its use. The dwarves in D&D for example traditionally include Dwarven Waraxes in the weapons they may provide their soldiers, and therefore they train the dwarven soldiers in the weapon's use, when on the other hand a human army will almost certainly not equip their troops with dwarven waraxes so they do not include the weapon in their training programs hence it being considered an exotic weapon.

The additional 'Fluff' details that do not have direct mechanical effects are largely there for aiding in role playing, as if a player is a 6'-6" human they will certainly get a different reaction from people than if they were 5'-6", or a 40 year old man will get different reactions than a 15 year old kid (also age does actually have a mechanical effect in D&D and other games). There are also situations where you very much need to know some of the 'fluff' for things to work, as if you have a magic bag that can only hold 70 pounds and it helps to know if your Character is more or less than 70 pounds for the sake of being shoved into the bag to save money on potions of wall walking. Yes, you can always just play a 'Normal' character, though that ends up just passing the responsibilities on to the DM of the game.

I dont particularly care whether or not you want to play in the end. That is your own decision to make, I am just providing my personal explanation of the way things work when I run a game as even if you dont want to play its always important to clear up misconceptions about the subject.

[Retech]

Make that 'playing to make yourself a demi-god' and I agree, I do seek power but at least I do it some other way than 'find op stuff' aka Earth and 'grind, grind, grind' aka Retech, I try to make my own stuff and do things that are entertaining as well.

 

Also the warping I did in Dungeoneering 2 was not trying to gain power, it was first 'get me the hell outta here' and then 'let me help you with that'.

 

Making countless ice sculptures and cloud-based "Goodyear" advertising blimps are definitely not example of grinding. :P

 

And yes, it was completely necessary. One only has middling magical power with level 5 magic, and one does not become a powerful lich that has sacrificed her humanity in order to pursue the evil creature that she accidentally unleashed for her arbitrarily long lifetime with "middling" magic.

 

Unfortunately, the game ended before I could unlock the secrets of even deeper ancient magic, which I'm sure would've been of some use. My experiments on it completely failed, although that was not an entirely surprising result, considering that my tests primarily consisted of freezing it and blowing it up.

 

And perhaps I still have a little bit of that Runescape grinding determination and drive left in me, which is one of things that I am happy to have learned from the game. Now I am prepared for the tedious and repetitive work of today's modern economy!

 

---------

 

I'm pretty sure there are rules on sundering objects and such, including walls, though I don't remember if they are only in 3.5 or if they have been updated to Pathfinder. If you're not sure, honestly the best approach would just be to ask the GM if it can be done, and then the GM will probably know the rules for that, or can easily look it up.

 

Although, if you know that beforehand that your character is going to be a doorbreaker/wallkicker, it probably pays to look up the rule in advance and have a link.

[Icuownage]

So, guess I found one of the most horrific animes ever made.

 

Probably not, but sure, tell me what it is

[Resistance]

When I get back I'd be willing to run a game, what sort of genres would people suggest to me. I will explain more after holdiay about systems and such.

[Nexaduro]

Puella Magi Madoka Magica.

 

It's an afront to reality itself.

 

I suppose it's not that bad, I mean I've never watched Bokurano or NGE, but it's a strong enough mindscrew/genre deconstruction that TVTropes guided me to it while I was looking into said shows.

 

It's one of those shows like Sailor Moon or whatever, TVTropes calls it the 'Magical Girl' genre. If Sailor Moon was a Lovecraftian Cosmic Horror Story instead of a children's show.

 

The thing's already giving me migraines and I probably won't sleep well tonight.

[Earth]

I'm slightly offended you think my entire strategy is to "find op stuff", Mather. Give me an example, and I'm sure I can counter it.

[Leiana]

No offense everyone who's talking about the WASD keys and stuff, you sound like you're complaining. Or maybe that's just me because of this phsycotic heat wave here in the US.

 

Anywho.....wait...what was I gonna say?

 

Oh yeah that's right: IT IS SO FRAGGIN HOT HERE IN THE U.S. However one thing good is comeing out of this: Lyrics of Songs that are stuck in me head. In one day, I've managed 20 different snipits of random songs. My current fave (If my voice wasn't terrible I'd make a recording of me singing it) :

[Nexaduro]

Sorry, I'm leaving that until I actually beat Portal.

[Leiana]

XD I haven't finished Portal 2 yet. I know the song due to a friend showing me. Thanks Mather for reminding me the song XD

[a_bert]

shooting kids at a youth camp is so sad, this is horrific

[Nexaduro]

Erm...? What is?

[Retech]

More applicable song to heat wave:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XE2fnYpwrng

[Alg]

Erm...? What is?

Terrorist attacks in Norway, one at a government building, the other at a youth camp, I think.

[The_Mather1]

Make that 'playing to make yourself a demi-god' and I agree, I do seek power but at least I do it some other way than 'find op stuff' aka Earth and 'grind, grind, grind' aka Retech, I try to make my own stuff and do things that are entertaining as well.

 

Also the warping I did in Dungeoneering 2 was not trying to gain power, it was first 'get me the hell outta here' and then 'let me help you with that'.

 

Making countless ice sculptures and cloud-based "Goodyear" advertising blimps are definitely not example of grinding. :P

No, but can you with any other words describe what you were doing in the first Dungeoneering? You were the first to reach lvl 20 in any skill, with an enormous margin.

[Earth]

Mather, still waiting for that example of me only looking for OP stuff..

[The_Mather1]

Earth, Dungeoneering 2, you got something OP for every elemental you freed.

[Retech]

Earth, Dungeoneering 2, you got something OP for every elemental you freed.

 

But he shared them with the party. IIRC, he gave/lent me a shapechanging cloak thingy.

 

And weren't they elder gods or something?

[Icuownage]

Puella Magi Madoka Magica.

 

It's an afront to reality itself.

 

I suppose it's not that bad, I mean I've never watched Bokurano or NGE, but it's a strong enough mindscrew/genre deconstruction that TVTropes guided me to it while I was looking into said shows.

 

It's one of those shows like Sailor Moon or whatever, TVTropes calls it the 'Magical Girl' genre. If Sailor Moon was a Lovecraftian Cosmic Horror Story instead of a children's show.

 

The thing's already giving me migraines and I probably won't sleep well tonight.

 

Oh that's not that disgusting, except a couple of scenes (both of which I holy [cabbage]ted at, so it's very good)

 

It's meant to be a deconsturction of the magic girl genre, showing how it would really be like to be one, and as I have been told, sailor moon was quite like it, in the disgusting factor.

 

It was a really good series, so good choice.

[Earth]

... OP?.. I WAS FOLLOWING THE STORY. The GM, Ross I believe, I can't remember, gave me the story line. I went along with it, resulting in me getting several random objects that usually did nothing truly OP, hell I didn't even do it for the objects, I did it for the STORY.