The Back Room

[Resistance]

I'd recommend nobody even consider starting an argument about the above.

 

http://i1.theportalwiki.net/img/b/b8/Portal2-12-Cara_Mia_Addio.mp3

 

[archimage_a]

You don't know what two-dimensional means, do you?

Two Dimensional:

Flat, Insipid, Uninspired, Predictable, Cliched...Etc.

 

The story, and therefore the character, is two dimensional.

There is a guy. All girls love him. Except one. Who he loves.

There is a guy. He has riches. He has smarts. He has good looks. He has muscles.

There is a guy. He loves a girl. He is cold hearted. His parent's didn't love him/died.

 

So the Two-Dimensional comment is really targeted at his complete lack of Depth. (Alternatively, his lack of complexity)

 

 

Really 'Two Dimentional' is the antithesis of 'What you see is what you get'.

 

Which makes me think that you are just trolling, as per normal.

[The_Mather1]

So tell me, where did you get that he's coldhearted from? Or what happened to his parents? Or that he's rich?

 

Just because he fills a few tropes doesn't mean his character is a cliché.

 

 

That coldheartedness is just snark, it's evident as [bleep] that he's not actually coldhearted. The only thing we know about his parents is that he's not living with them. And the only thing we know about his finances is that he's in no way struggling.

 

And what you call a lack of complexity is just that he never speaks his mind. To anyone who can read people, he's more complex than 3/4ths of all the MCs there are out there.

[Nexaduro]

Stop talking

 

Don't talk again

 

Please

[archimage_a]

Coldhearted: Tells every girl, except magic girl, that he is not interested, without ever deeming it neccessary to cushion it.

Parents: Distinctly remember him saying his parents died in a business accident.

Rich: He just lives in an expensive condo in the middle of Japan.

 

And no. His lack of complexity stems from him being a two dimensional character. The fact that he doesn't monologue or whatever is simply the designer being 'mysterious'...something designers always use to hide the fact that the character is two dimensional.

 

For instance the 'Mysterious Stranger' in every spagetti western ever. While people like to think there is 'something' going on in the mind of 'The Mysterious Stranger', the truth is that the facade just gives the writer licence to do whatever they want.

'Oh in the end I shot the evil guy because...' *Looks hardboiled*

'Wow, you are so epic mysterious stranger'

*Rides off into the sunset*

 

 

Really, the only reason the story gets any traction...like just about any trash fiction story...Is because the reader/watcher can identify with the character...For instance you clearly identify with his outlook in love 'He is wholeheartedly committed to a woman who doesn't return his affections' (and then she does, giving all the people who identify with that outlook hope that their own lives will eventually deliever them to their 'true loves').

It doesn't matter that he is rich, or Japanese, or the best at sports, or smarts, or, or popularity, or whatever because just about everyone considers themselves to fall into one (or more) of those catagories. So they identify with that aspect, and because all human experiance is largely the same (In a serious sense there is very little difference between a person at the height of the intellectual ladder and the height of the sports ladder, the main difference is the ability, which anime relegates to insignificance...also the circumstantial factors, such as parents, being poor, not being inherantly capable, and so on, are simply not there.) people can see 'themselves' in the guy who is doing something they wouldn't be able to.

 

Its like the horoscopes that say:

'You worry when you are at home, in private. You may feel, wrongly usually, that your family does not love you, that they do not understand you, that you are lonely, and that your father is too strict.'

Which, unless your father is dead, applies to just about everyone, despite them seeming quite specific.

 

Similarly:

'Impersonal detachment or cold-looking demeanours may hamper your communications although they increase your concentration, your patience, and your ability to study and to accumulate knowledge. As far as your entourage is concerned, quality prevails over quantity, and you can easily alternate agitated and eventful periods with periods of solitude.'

 

 

You can see the same thing in the Twilight series. The fact that the guy is a Vampire is largely irrelevant because girls are (in general) attracted to guys that are 'emotionally complex', especially when they act in a 'chivalrous' way to spare the girl's feelings.

 

 

 

 

It just provides an entirely unrealistic ideal for people to wish for...or to escape from reality with...Which, unsuprisingly, leads to their problems increasing, rather than decreasing.

[Resistance]

Stop talking

 

Don't talk again

 

Please

 

These arguments used to have value. Now you're just fighting for the sake of fighting.

[Alg]

They used to have value? Was this before my time?

[Resistance]

No, I was wrong they were always awful.

[The_Mather1]

Coldhearted: Tells every girl, except magic girl, that he is not interested, without ever deeming it neccessary to cushion it.

Him to the only girl he declines on-screen: "I'm actually a huge otaku, and I've got this raging fetish for maids." (This for the record is an attempt to make her lose interest.)

 

Parents: Distinctly remember him saying his parents died in a business accident.

That was the other guy, the one that was introduced in the last few episodes and was always hungry.

 

Rich: He just lives in an empty condo or apartment in the middle of nowhere, Japan.

FTFY.

 

And no. His lack of complexity stems from him being a two dimensional character. The fact that he doesn't monologue or whatever is simply the designer being 'mysterious'...something designers always use to hide the fact that the character is two dimensional.

 

For instance the 'Mysterious Stranger' in every spagetti western ever. While people like to think there is 'something' going on in the mind of 'The Mysterious Stranger', the truth is that the facade just gives the writer licence to do whatever they want.

'Oh in the end I shot the evil guy because...' *Looks hardboiled*

'Wow, you are so epic mysterious stranger'

*Rides off into the sunset*

 

 

Really, the only reason the story gets any traction...like just about any trash fiction story...Is because the reader/watcher can identify with the character...For instance you clearly identify with his outlook in love 'He is wholeheartedly committed to a woman who doesn't return his affections' (and then she does, giving all the people who identify with that outlook hope that their own lives will eventually deliever them to their 'true loves').

It doesn't matter that he is rich, or Japanese, or the best at sports, or smarts, or, or popularity, or whatever because just about everyone considers themselves to fall into one (or more) of those catagories. So they identify with that aspect, and because all human experiance is largely the same (In a serious sense there is very little difference between a person at the height of the intellectual ladder and the height of the sports ladder, the main difference is the ability, which anime relegates to insignificance...also the circumstantial factors, such as parents, being poor, not being inherantly capable, and so on, are simply not there.) people can see 'themselves' in the guy who is doing something they wouldn't be able to.

 

Its like the horoscopes that say:

'You worry when you are at home, in private. You may feel, wrongly usually, that your family does not love you, that they do not understand you, that you are lonely, and that your father is too strict.'

Which, unless your father is dead, applies to just about everyone, despite them seeming quite specific.

 

Similarly:

'Impersonal detachment or cold-looking demeanours may hamper your communications although they increase your concentration, your patience, and your ability to study and to accumulate knowledge. As far as your entourage is concerned, quality prevails over quantity, and you can easily alternate agitated and eventful periods with periods of solitude.'

 

 

You can see the same thing in the Twilight series. The fact that the guy is a Vampire is largely irrelevant because girls are (in general) attracted to guys that are 'emotionally complex', especially when they act in a 'chivalrous' way to spare the girl's feelings.

 

 

 

 

It just provides an entirely unrealistic ideal for people to wish for...or to escape from reality with...Which, unsuprisingly, leads to their problems increasing, rather than decreasing.

I ceased to identify with him the moment he started speaking more than a few lines per episode, and neither of your "universal descriptors" fit me.

 

Unlike you, and 90% of all the other people with some form of retardation that's located on the autism spectrum, I have retained the ability to see what's going on inside someone's head judging by minute traces such as irregularities in their speech pattern (I'm talking on a smaller level than just stuttering and hesitation here) and exact choice of actions. I can in fact do so to a better degree than "normal" people, though whether this is a kindness in my Asperger's, a simple natural talent or a result of my highly overactive empathy, I do not know.

Now I cannot blame you for being unable to see any actual character in someone whom we get that little insight into, as this is something Asperger's Syndrome normally causes one's brain to be hardwired in a way that makes you unable to pick up on such, however I can guarantee you that he is simply stone faced, and not just a clay puppet.

[archimage_a]

They used to have value? Was this before my time?

Well there used to be science and economy...For instance the discussion over the size of an orbital launcher that could, safely, launch humans into outerspace...

Or the price of a 1 mile wide dome on the base of the ocean...

Stuff that actually taxed the mental capacity of those involved and, to quote Ross 'Actually learned something from the physics rant'.

 

 

 

Now the arguments revolve around banal issues, like anime...

And they devolve into fanboy defences, either of Mather or of Mather's interests.

Without logic there cannot be an argument, just a verbal fight, which isn't taxing on any mental capacity...except maybe patience.

 

 

Mather, I am not gonna respond to your points except to say this:

Anime is drawn and Actors speak the lines.

If you can 'detect' a fictional character's motivations based on an actor speaking their lines, and on animators drawing their expressions, then you seriously need to phone Ripley's.

[The_Mather1]

You can detect such things because the writer chooses to convey it and the voiceactor does his or her job properly. Only shitty writers ever create main characters who don't have an underlying thought process.

[archimage_a]

Whatever you say Mather.

[Nexaduro]

You can detect such things because the writer chooses to convey it and the voiceactor does his or her job properly. Only shitty writers ever create main characters who don't have an underlying thought process.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNNV641DbX0&feature=related

[The_Mather1]

Characters that are literally supposed to be thoughtless are an exception. Not that it's usually done well (or at all) in western animation anyways. If you want a western animation that does have it, try Avatar.

[Resistance]

Avatar is japanimation. Not a western cartoon.

[Alg]

Avatar is japanimation. Not a western cartoon.

No, I'm pretty sure it's American.

[Resistance]

Avatar is japanimation. Not a western cartoon.

No, I'm pretty sure it's American, made in the style of anime.

In that case the point is irrelevant.

 

A: Western characters don't have XYZ traits

B: Actually, JapanSomething has.

C: Japan something is Japanime

D: Oh no, it's just made with the traits from japanime

[archimage_a]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeLkeIrf2bw

As I was a-gwine down the road,

With a tired team and a heavy load,

I crack'd my whip and the leader sprung,

I says day-day to the wagon tongue.

Turkey in the straw, turkey in the hay,

Roll 'em up and twist 'em up a high tuckahaw

And twist 'em up a tune called Turkey in the Straw.

 

Went out to milk, and I didn't know how,

I milked the goat instead of the cow.

A monkey sittin' on a pile of straw,

A-winkin' at his mother-in-law.

Turkey in the straw, turkey in the hay,

Roll 'em up and twist 'em up a high tuckahaw

And twist 'em up a tune called Turkey in the Straw.

 

Met Mr. Catfish comin' down stream.

Says Mr. Catfish, "What does you mean?"

Caught Mr. Catfish by the snout,

And turned Mr. Catfish wrong side out.

Turkey in the straw, turkey in the hay,

Roll 'em up and twist 'em up a high tuckahaw

And twist 'em up a tune called Turkey in the Straw.

 

Came to a river and I couldn't get across,

Paid five dollars for a blind old hoss;

Wouldn't go ahead, nor he wouldn't stand still,

So he went up and down like an old saw mill.

Turkey in the straw, turkey in the hay,

Roll 'em up and twist 'em up a high tuckahaw

And twist 'em up a tune called Turkey in the Straw.

 

As I came down the new cut road,

Met Mr. Bullfrog, met Miss Toad

And every time Miss Toad would sing,

Old Bullfrog cut a pigeon wing.

Turkey in the straw, turkey in the hay,

Roll 'em up and twist 'em up a high tuckahaw

And twist 'em up a tune called Turkey in the Straw.

 

Oh I jumped in the seat and I gave a little yell

The horses ran away, broke the wagon all to hell

Sugar in the gourd and honey in the horn

I never been so happy since the day I was born.

Turkey in the straw, turkey in the hay,

Roll 'em up and twist 'em up a high tuckahaw

And twist 'em up a tune called Turkey in the Straw

[The_Mather1]

It's not made in the style of anime either. It's just a more serious take on a cartoon, based on Chinese culture.

[Alg]

It's not made in the style of anime either. It's just a more serious take on a cartoon, based on Chinese culture.

I did catch my mistake and edit the post, but apparently not before Nef quoted it.

[The_Mather1]

Yeah, I noticed.

 

The similarity is striking, but that is merely because an anime and cartoon are just the same thing made according to different standards. And since the nature of the combat and abilities in Avatar is unique to it among cartoons, it further enchances the ilusion that Avatar is an anime. However the abilities, that is to say the bending, is unique merely because there are so few cartoons that revolve around special powers, though to mention one there's American Dragon (fun fact, Jake Long (the MC of American Dragon), Zuko (from TLA) and Iroh (from LoK) have the same voice actor; Dante Basco). The combat however is unique on a level beyond that of animes, being based on real-life martial arts styles with experts being brought in to advice in the choreography of the fighting scenes.

[Nexaduro]

Avatar was heavily inspired by multiple aspects of multiple different cultures and time periods (accurately), and has been translated to numerous other languages (well), the first series was made as a children's show that didn't pain adults to watch with their kids, and the second drew largely upon the periphery demographic of everyone in between. That said, yes, it was made by Americans, and yes, it's visual style is anime-esque.

 

I would say- as can be said of many things with varying degrees of objective accuracy- I don't think Avatar is fit to be pigeonholed into any given demographic or genre.

 

I suggest we call Avatar 'Avatar' and leave it at that... It seems like a reasonable compromise in this generally pointless argument.

[The_Mather1]

The part of who it was made for is quite simple; TLA was made for the regular Nikelodeon demographic, ages 7-13, LoK was made for the same people, 7 years later.

[Nexaduro]

The part of who it was made for is quite simple; TLA was made for the regular Nikelodeon demographic, ages 7-13, LoK was made for the same people, 7 years later.

Everyone is right, discussion over, stop arguing you useless ninny.

[Mylez]

the /b/ack room