20-Mar-2012 - Bakriminel Bolts

[Platinum_Myr]

The good thing about practice is that anyone can do it.

 

Agreed. I just wish it wasn't a 45min-1hr session to get to a 2minutes of practice.

[Alg]

The good thing about practice is that anyone can do it.

 

Agreed. I just wish it wasn't a 45min-1hr session to get to a 2minutes of practice.

That seems to be the biggest hindrance for people. It's not like Vanstrom where you can just teleport back and try again without losing anything; Jad takes a while to get to and can be fairly expensive depending on what method you use. I'd love to try meleeing him, for example, but I'm not eager to waste that much time to get a bit of practice in. :razz:

 

That said, I love the concept and still think we need more bosses like that - the kind where you don't need high levels as long as you know what to do, and where you get some nice untradeable gear at the end of it all.

[Platinum_Myr]

Yes. I also like the fact that he is challenging even for high level players. (Rather than making *everything* rely on levels only.) I would like some sort of practice app or something that mimics his animations and sounds, and buzzes when you fail. But its more difficult that it is worth, I think.

 

>_> I got Vanstrom on the first try, still haven't killed jad without ganodermic and tanking his mage attack...

[Pinata]

For some reason I find the fight cave jad harder than the actual kiln. Mainly because when the healers come out, its hard to focus on them and then jad at the same time, and they also heal him making it a longer fight. Whereas the Jads in the fight kiln, I rarely mess up on them because you can kill them before prayer drops and 100% concentration on just his attacks without any other distractions. For me it only took 2 tries to get the kiln cape and literally 15 or more tries for the fire cape. Sadly I got my first fire cape using the gano method, but I managed to get another one w/o using gano which I was somewhat proud of even though I was 137cb. lol

 

For the bolt update I was kinda bummed out. I was hoping for the polypore equivalent to range, cheap and pretty damn powerful. Range with broads isn't to bad or the crystal bow in terms of price, but bring in DPS and range becomes a joke compared to melee and magic.

[Platinum_Myr]

Yeah, too bad the bolts are basically too rare/expensive for regular use. (+25 ranged strength is nice..)

[Tim]

The good thing about practice is that anyone can do it.

 

Agreed. I just wish it wasn't a 45min-1hr session to get to a 2minutes of practice.

That alone is the biggest turn off for doing fight caves before I eventually did it one day. Got my cape first go, never going back. Took me 90mins of time wasted.

[HappyNooblet]

Some of you are really over thinking this, lol. The bolts are actually really good, and the thought process behind them is top notch as well.

I mean the fact that you have to travel everywhere just to get to these trees and having to make them after you cut them is pretty cool.

 

Imo its worth it, well for me atleast. The bolts do pretty well against magers in soul wars, i dont use the snipe head option because its pretty inaccurate in my opinion. But the snipe chest is nice with that bleed effect and the fact that the bolts can slow down the casting speed is good too since the magers in soul wars have to SS to stay alive. Also the bakrim bolts hit very often and moderately high.

 

I do not find it a hassle to get to the trees though. The wilderness teleport system does its job. and the lever to go deep into the wild from edge is pretty handy too.

 

My run goes like this, i use the lever to get to 50+ wild, and get the pirate hideout tree first, i head to magebank and bank the bolts that i've fletched, then i head over to the demonic ruins and from here you COULD take the wilderness portals, but it's really risky, i've encountered a couple of pkers yet i was lucky enough to log out really fast ;]. So i usually just walk from the demonic ruins to the chaos altar, then i HT to edge and yipee! i get the soul wars tree.

 

The luckiest yield i've gotten so far was 8 logs, i've cut and fletched about 600-800 bolts so far and they're really awesome! :D

[J35u5_M4]

Hey, if you've got all ancient magick teleport spells, do this;

 

-Carrallangar Teleport; Teleports you a bit north of chaos temple

-Annakarl Teleport; teleports you to the demonic ruins, you can get the demonic ruins tree with this, then run to pirate's

-Tokkul ring to teleport to fight caves, run to the fairy ring; go to ROTM tree

-Teleport to darkmeyer using the medallion, there goes another tree

-Hometeleport to edgeville, run to SW

 

That's my route :P

[Crossed_Body]

Some of you are really over thinking this, lol. The bolts are actually really good, and the thought process behind them is top notch as well.

I mean the fact that you have to travel everywhere just to get to these trees and having to make them after you cut them is pretty cool.

 

Imo its worth it, well for me atleast. The bolts do pretty well against magers in soul wars, i dont use the snipe head option because its pretty inaccurate in my opinion. But the snipe chest is nice with that bleed effect and the fact that the bolts can slow down the casting speed is good too since the magers in soul wars have to SS to stay alive. Also the bakrim bolts hit very often and moderately high.

 

I do not find it a hassle to get to the trees though. The wilderness teleport system does its job. and the lever to go deep into the wild from edge is pretty handy too.

 

My run goes like this, i use the lever to get to 50+ wild, and get the pirate hideout tree first, i head to magebank and bank the bolts that i've fletched, then i head over to the demonic ruins and from here you COULD take the wilderness portals, but it's really risky, i've encountered a couple of pkers yet i was lucky enough to log out really fast ;]. So i usually just walk from the demonic ruins to the chaos altar, then i HT to edge and yipee! i get the soul wars tree.

 

The luckiest yield i've gotten so far was 8 logs, i've cut and fletched about 600-800 bolts so far and they're really awesome! :D

 

 

The thing is, 600-800 one use bolts are pretty much useless in PvE. Not to mention their price.

 

I think they need to change the bolts to work in PvE monsters that use magic, and increase log wield by at least 50%. Can't really comment on pvp, since I don't pvp much.

[999134]

they are not designed for pvm, you don't use morrgians or vesta stuff for pvm either do you...?

[Crossed_Body]

they are not designed for pvm, you don't use morrgians or vesta stuff for pvm either do you...?

 

I remember people using vesta stuff for corp anticrashing and jad speedkilling. It's a damn shame they introduce new bolts that are effectively useless to a majority of the population when a couple of simple tweaks could make it work.

[999134]

And I am sure you will see people using these bolts in nex masses/speed killing.

[Crossed_Body]

And I am sure you will see people using these bolts in nex masses/speed killing.

 

Not when dragon/onyx bolts are much cheaper and hit higher when speccing and only marginally lower when not speccing..

[HappyNooblet]

And I am sure you will see people using these bolts in nex masses/speed killing.

 

Not when dragon/onyx bolts are much cheaper and hit higher when speccing and only marginally lower when not speccing..

 

Well i dont really see people using vesta/morrigans/zuriels on every day slayer tasks too often. Do you?

[Crossed_Body]

Well i dont really see people using vesta/morrigans/zuriels on every day slayer tasks too often. Do you?

 

By PvM I mean bossing, not slaying. I can understand that it might confuse you, and I apologise.

 

 

 

I do see vesta spear and statius hammer being used in corp, for example.

[HappyNooblet]

 

 

The thing is, 600-800 one use bolts are pretty much useless in PvE. Not to mention their price.

 

I think they need to change the bolts to work in PvE monsters that use magic, and increase log wield by at least 50%. Can't really comment on pvp, since I don't pvp much.

^

[Crossed_Body]

 

 

The thing is, 600-800 one use bolts are pretty much useless in PvE. Not to mention their price.

 

I think they need to change the bolts to work in PvE monsters that use magic, and increase log wield by at least 50%. Can't really comment on pvp, since I don't pvp much.

^

 

I know what I said and I corrected myself, do you have any point besides pointing out that small generalisation mistake that I made?

[HappyNooblet]

No, do you? because i really dont see what's so bad about these bolts, mainly because i am biased

[Platinum_Myr]

They aren't 'bad', but just aren't good enough for the trouble it takes.

[Crossed_Body]

No, do you? because i really dont see what's so bad about these bolts, mainly because i am biased

 

They're not bad, they're just extremely situational and with a couple of small tweaks they could be even better.

[SwreeTak]

These bolts seems useful to me, but I haven't got the levels to make them myself. But since I am 99 Ranged I might just buy some and try it out on a couple of monsters. I am sure that the effect will be awesome (even if I won't buy too many of them, they're way to expensive for that!).

[Crossed_Body]

These bolts seems useful to me, but I haven't got the levels to make them myself. But since I am 99 Ranged I might just buy some and try it out on a couple of monsters. I am sure that the effect will be awesome (even if I won't buy too many of them, they're way to expensive for that!).

 

The effect doesn't work on monsters fyi

[SwreeTak]

These bolts seems useful to me, but I haven't got the levels to make them myself. But since I am 99 Ranged I might just buy some and try it out on a couple of monsters. I am sure that the effect will be awesome (even if I won't buy too many of them, they're way to expensive for that!).

 

The effect doesn't work on monsters fyi

 

Well, I meant that I will try out the bolts hits on monsters, and the effect on people ;)

[12pure34]

Was there ever a calculation/approximation done for the damage per shot INCLUDING the dragonfire effect from the dragonstone bolt? Also how often are those used on bosses or PvP?

 

I would love to see a damage comparison on a fixed defense level. Ruby bolts would (I can only assume) be highest if monster > X amount of health. And dragonstone spec value would be relatively higher when mob has high defense. (I don't think the spec is affected by defense values?)

 

Mithril bolts

Broad bolts

Runite bolts

Dragonstone bolts

Onyx bolts

Bakriminel bolts

 

Do we even need to consider arrows?

[Quyneax]

Ruby bolts can activate even if you miss iirc, so they are a set chance at a high hit (500 on Nex, 1000 on corp, 550 on GWD bosses if first hit).

Mithril and broad can basically be ignored, runite is always better (maybe if you didn't have an alerter it's worth using broads but at that point you should be using zaryte/Karil's or w/e).

 

According to Obliv's thread ([qfc]154-155-606-60798052[/qfc]) the damage multiplier for dragonstone bolts is roughly 1.45x, diamond roughly 1.15x, onyx roughly 1.2x. He doesn't mention sagaie but I understand the crew has done some testing and found the multiplier for distances of 5 squares and more to be roughly 1.5x. The multiplier for bane bolts is roughly the same (or higher even) iirc.

 

So that gives you (rigour, void, 99 ranged with overload) the following max hits before and after spec:

Ammo 		Ranged strength 	Max base hit 		Max spec
Bakriminel 	125			551			551
Onyx 		120			536			643
Dragonstone 	117			528			765
Runite 		115			522			522
Diamond 	105			493			566
Ruby 		103			487			special
Bane 		82			427			640
Sagaie 		70			392			470
Karil's 	55			580			580

Effective ranged level is 185. I've multiplied Karil's max hit by 5/3rds as it is that much faster.

 

Of course enchanted bolt specials do not activate 100% whereas sagaie and bane bolts always have their special. Karil's is pretty good too and works on every target, but it has a lot lower accuracy (two-handed with void).

 

Onyx needs an activation rate of slighly over 1 in 8 to beat bakriminel bolts.

Dragonstone needs an activation rate of slightly over 1 in 11 to beat them.

Diamond needs an activation rate higher than 4 in 5 to beat them.