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20-Mar-2012 - Bakriminel Bolts


Saradomin_Mage

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Don't Morrigan's Javelins have a similar special attack that does more damage?

1.5m per shot I believe, and while a Morrigan's javelin special is incredibly powerful (it hits rapid dart-speed 50s until as much damage is done as the initial hit, with 145 ranged strength, so up to ~1100 damage for that attack) it's not really viable. But it's awesome :D.

 

If Jagex wanted to make a good anti-mage weapon they should allow us to permanently repair Morrigan's javelins including a retrieval effect so they aren't so expensive. The spec doesn't work in pvm anyway, nothing to unbalance there.

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Don't Morrigan's Javelins have a similar special attack that does more damage?

1.5m per shot I believe, and while a Morrigan's javelin special is incredibly powerful (it hits rapid dart-speed 50s until as much damage is done as the initial hit, with 145 ranged strength, so up to ~1100 damage for that attack) it's not really viable. But it's awesome :D.

 

If Jagex wanted to make a good anti-mage weapon they should allow us to permanently repair Morrigan's javelins including a retrieval effect so they aren't so expensive. The spec doesn't work in pvm anyway, nothing to unbalance there.

 

 

Fixing Morrigan's javelins or any PvP ammo for that matter should already have been implemented. They are so rare to come by now without the old pvp drop system it's ridiculous.

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Bolts aren't even selling 2k each lol...

I've been unable to figure out what the intention of these even was. Crossbows were already supreme for nearly all Ranged. Mages already go down easily to Ranged.

If they thought that the Polypore needed to be balanced, they should've just weakened it a bit instead of failing miserably to release something equally overpowered. No, something that fails to be overpowered is not balanced. In this case, it's just pointless.

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Bolts aren't even selling 2k each lol...

I've been unable to figure out what the intention of these even was. Crossbows were already supreme for nearly all Ranged. Mages already go down easily to Ranged.

If they thought that the Polypore needed to be balanced, they should've just weakened it a bit instead of failing miserably to release something equally overpowered. No, something that fails to be overpowered is not balanced. In this case, it's just pointless.

 

Mage beats everything-- including ranged. Easily.

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Bolts aren't even selling 2k each lol...

I've been unable to figure out what the intention of these even was. Crossbows were already supreme for nearly all Ranged. Mages already go down easily to Ranged.

If they thought that the Polypore needed to be balanced, they should've just weakened it a bit instead of failing miserably to release something equally overpowered. No, something that fails to be overpowered is not balanced. In this case, it's just pointless.

 

Mage beats everything-- including ranged. Easily.

Common misconception, probably caused by the total ownage barragers can bring down when they have several targets and Soul Split.

Otherwise, hardly.

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Isn't Storm of Armadyl the highest DPS possible in the game? (assuming Max Mage Gear, overloads and a Staff of Armadyl), I could be wrong of course.

 

Storm of Armadyl is the highest* dps in the game

 

*highest on zero defence, results may vary

 

When you include defence in the equation (which is a big deal in PvP) Storm of Armadyl isn't always the highest. Rangers have high magic defence and magic soak. Most mage robes have zero range defence (the exceptions only have incredibly small bonuses). So range is really designed to beat magic, and does just that most of the time.

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it's a lot cheaper to equip a bunch of distracting archers to back you up than it is to equip one pwnmage

 

people see my crappy gear with a rune cbow and they still turn on protect range even while they're getting piled by five claw rushers and so on

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Mages have a farther range than rangers do, and thus it's possible for a mage to attack rangers without having to fear retaliation. Just a thought.

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doesn't really help in cwars/sw when you can't farcast in close quarters or massive clashes where mages are the most visible targets :P

 

as for pvp, in general the ranger has far less to lose than the mage...

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Void is required for most of ranger's raw dps but that has so little magic defence a mage can rip straight through it. Without void, the max hit with ranged is a low 500. For magic, the max hit is 540 using just polypore staff, wolpertinger and arcane stream necklace.

 

Magic has SoA+teleblock/ice barrage+miasmics/vengeance+polypore depending on choice of spellbook, long range and wolpertingers. Ranged has around half the raw dps of SoA.

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Mages have a farther range than rangers do, and thus it's possible for a mage to attack rangers without having to fear retaliation. Just a thought.

 

-Rangers also have numerous weapons with 10 range (same as magic) but they generally do less damage than a crossbow.

 

-Polypore staff has a crappy range, I think even a crossbow could outreach it.

 

-Bolas can be used by rangers to freeze mages to prevent farcasting.

 

-I hear some range weapons have even farther reach than 10, such as sighted magic longbows. Theoretically, they could bolas and "farcast" a helpless mage.

 

Just bringing up a few points on the subject, I'm not really arguing in favor of range of mage of being OP. I've never seen anyone using these tactics, so it's just in theory. Somebody should really test this stuff out, it could be some pretty useful stuff.

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People get unfrozen if you move beyond magic range, so I don't think you can farcast a mage.

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Bolts aren't even selling 2k each lol...

I've been unable to figure out what the intention of these even was. Crossbows were already supreme for nearly all Ranged. Mages already go down easily to Ranged.

If they thought that the Polypore needed to be balanced, they should've just weakened it a bit instead of failing miserably to release something equally overpowered. No, something that fails to be overpowered is not balanced. In this case, it's just pointless.

 

Mage beats everything-- including ranged. Easily.

Common misconception, probably caused by the total ownage barragers can bring down when they have several targets and Soul Split.

Otherwise, hardly.

 

Storm of Armadyl is more than enough to bring down rangers with optimum gear.

 

Just ask Latin :P

 

Then there's miasmics...

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Storm of Armadyl is more than enough to bring down rangers with optimum gear.

 

Just ask Latin :P

 

Then there's miasmics...

 

Miasmics are so incredibly expensive, though. Even more so than storm of armadyl because of the zuriel staff cost. In general, magic is a lot more expensive to use, and rangers can get by just fine with sub-100k equipment.

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Mages have a farther range than rangers do, and thus it's possible for a mage to attack rangers without having to fear retaliation. Just a thought.

 

-Rangers also have numerous weapons with 10 range (same as magic) but they generally do less damage than a crossbow.

 

-Polypore staff has a crappy range, I think even a crossbow could outreach it.

 

-Bolas can be used by rangers to freeze mages to prevent farcasting.

 

-I hear some range weapons have even farther reach than 10, such as sighted magic longbows. Theoretically, they could bolas and "farcast" a helpless mage.

 

Just bringing up a few points on the subject, I'm not really arguing in favor of range of mage of being OP. I've never seen anyone using these tactics, so it's just in theory. Somebody should really test this stuff out, it could be some pretty useful stuff.

 

True but that's just the thing, weapons such as longbows that reach higher really aren't very viable for PvP and the standard ranger wouldn't carry them.

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Storm of Armadyl is more than enough to bring down rangers with optimum gear.

 

Just ask Latin :P

 

Then there's miasmics...

 

Miasmics are so incredibly expensive, though. Even more so than storm of armadyl because of the zuriel staff cost. In general, magic is a lot more expensive to use, and rangers can get by just fine with sub-100k equipment.

The corrupt version is a bit over 500k and can be used one cast at the time iirc. If it degrades like chaotics then each cast is about 5k more expensive (2 ticks combat per cast, one hit dealt one taken, 2000 ticks per staff). That's not that much considering the power.

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Mages have a farther range than rangers do, and thus it's possible for a mage to attack rangers without having to fear retaliation. Just a thought.

 

-Rangers also have numerous weapons with 10 range (same as magic) but they generally do less damage than a crossbow.

 

-Polypore staff has a crappy range, I think even a crossbow could outreach it.

 

-Bolas can be used by rangers to freeze mages to prevent farcasting.

 

-I hear some range weapons have even farther reach than 10, such as sighted magic longbows. Theoretically, they could bolas and "farcast" a helpless mage.

 

Just bringing up a few points on the subject, I'm not really arguing in favor of range of mage of being OP. I've never seen anyone using these tactics, so it's just in theory. Somebody should really test this stuff out, it could be some pretty useful stuff.

 

True but that's just the thing, weapons such as longbows that reach higher really aren't very viable for PvP and the standard ranger wouldn't carry them.

Actually, that's one of the things I wanted to stress. You guys are all talking SoA and Miasmic but people don't use those very often at all. PPS is pretty much the whip of maging, except that it seems to get to be about rapier strength as you would naturally get to that point.

BB are about the niche equivalent of SoA and I expect that they'll be used as little as SoA actually is for PvP combat.

Mage armor is easily destroyed by Ranged, from just about anything honestly.

 

My experience of PvP comes from a very long duration at SW. SW combat isn't really different than most other PvP where you'd even be considering these things except that there's a large volume of it, which might mean it's even better for witnessing what people ACTUALLY use. Rangers were a huge problem for me if I wasn't spawnkilling or something where I had a huge amount of targets. In small groups of fighting like at the Obelisk, I would have to worry about seeing any Ranged damage on me, because even level 50s in blue dhide and msbs could take out a chunk of my health.

 

You don't just say magic is overpowered because a tiny percentage of the population is running around storming everybody, just like you don't recommend everyone use torva because it's the best melee armor.

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As I just posted, miasmic is ~8k per cast. That's not a lot for a guaranteed kill, because after you cast it twice or so (until it hits) you have polypore to finish the job and 2-3x the raw dps of the ranger.

 

Edit: if you're healing with brews, miasmics are probably cheaper than using twice the number of brews for 48 seconds :o.

 

In Soul Wars, a kill is not particularly valuable so people don't spend much money for the most part. Staking, kills are so valuable anything goes. It's probably best to look at wilderness fights or Clan Wars or something.

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Can you really compare SW pvp environments to wilderness pvp environments where you have a stronger base of healing items compared to risk-reward? SW is lossless and limited to certain low items for healing. I don't know how that can compare to brews, rocktails, etc...

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Your healing items don't change based on what combat style you're using.

Can you really compare the Wilderness to SW when you have such a low variety (or grade) of gear used?

 

Because SW is lossless and you do die A LOT people use any gear they feel like, but, as was said, you won't see many people using SoA there, just as you won't see most people using it anywhere else.

SoA is not a good indication of whether Magic as a whole is overpowered, because it's nearly inconsiderable when discussing the majority of situations of PvP combat. Therefore, if Magic is only considered overpowered because of SoA (or for that matter a barrager with SS on 9 targets), there was no need for rebalancement by releasing these bolts (not that they did that very well anyway). That's all I wanted to say from the start, really.

The sheer mass of genuine fights I've been in or nearby are what matters when I talk about SW.

 

I'd also like to say, further to the PPS, is that if anyone could buy a rapier (or CCB, for that matter) in the GE for a few mil, the PPS wouldn't seem overpowered at all. Once again it comes down to availability.

 

The gear used in Wilderness fights between typical combatants is going to be severely limited due to cost. It's difficult to say whether BB will actually be used there, but it's safe to say SoA isn't.

 

I'll admit that I don't really know much about ranked Clan Wars but I can't imagine why such a niche arena (niche relative to other niches - even nichier!) weighs in on this. You [Kim] were the one talking risk VS reward, albeit in the Wilderness. Rewards from RCW are nonexistant as opposed to SW, which does at least bear mediocre rewards for battle costs. I'm not sure why it even matters, but in a manner of speaking, you should be more likely to see someone using something expensive in SW rather than RCW. EDIT lol Q was the one who mentioned Clan Wars. This paragraph has even less relevance now.

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Storm of Armadyl is more than enough to bring down rangers with optimum gear.

 

Just ask Latin :P

 

Then there's miasmics...

 

Miasmics are so incredibly expensive, though. Even more so than storm of armadyl because of the zuriel staff cost. In general, magic is a lot more expensive to use, and rangers can get by just fine with sub-100k equipment.

The corrupt version is a bit over 500k and can be used one cast at the time iirc. If it degrades like chaotics then each cast is about 5k more expensive (2 ticks combat per cast, one hit dealt one taken, 2000 ticks per staff). That's not that much considering the power.

 

I remember at one point using PvP ancient equipment would degrade it a minimum of 1 minute every time you equipped it. That was to prevent people from just wielding a weapon for one special/spell and getting thousands of uses out of it.

 

Did they change them to no longer have a minimum of 1 minute degrade, or was it always this case?

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Non corrupts are 60 minutes, 1 min is deducted for every use in combat. (Repition of using in same minute does not change this, unless you are unlucky and get a hit a split second after that minute)

Corrupt is time based, so you can get FAR more uses off it for single hits, disadvantage is lack of spec on swh/vls/throwing weps (Spear is meh)

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Storm of armadyl is used a lot more commonly than some people seem to think. Seeing as soa isn't even that expensive (cheaper than some of the barrages per cast), it is used in high level hybrid pking a lot. If you're risking any significant amount of gear, the increase in damage using soa over pps is by far worth it. (Which is why SW is irrelevant as you don't stand to gain 10m+ from making a kill, so why bother with the expensive but OP spell?)

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