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2012 U.S. Elections - President Obama Re-elected

Presidential Election  

78 members have voted

  1. 1. Which Candidate Will You Vote For?

    • Mitt Romney
      8
    • Barack Obama
      55
    • Other (For all you Ron Paulers)
      15


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Who cares about them? All I know is that I'm paying taxes that goes towards paying for programs that I will never utilize.

You know, unless something impossible happens like you get very sick or lose access to health insurance. Nothing like that ever happens, it's not like medical emergencies are the #1 reason people go bankrupt in this country.


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If the primaries had lasted through May, I would have voted for Rick Santorum. The reason being is that Romney has a millstone around his neck from Romney-care.

On domestic issues, I'd probably line up with the highest with Ron Paul, but on foreign issues, next to nil. In this day and age, it is impossible to safely be an isolationist, and one of the primary roles for the President is Commander in Chief (which is why I could never vote for Ron Paul). If Iran gets a nuclear weapon, Israel will probably be a bit of scorched earth. I don't see Ron Paul trying to stop that from happening.

 

 

As far as the general election, Obama's hypocrisy on spending is astounding.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUPZJDBJI84

 

4T in 8 years, versus 6T in <4 years.

 

In order to win election, Mitt Romney has one job to do. Talk about the economy.

Two graphs I'd like to share, from the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

 

First is the Unemployment rate from 1992 to 2012.

latest_numbers_LNS14000000_1992_2012_all_period_M03_data.gif

While the number appears to be getting lower (good for Obama), what's really happening is far worse. Instead of people getting jobs, they're dropping out of the labor force (still unemployed, but not counted).

This second graph is the labor force participation rate, from 1992 to 2012.

latest_numbers_LNS11300000_1992_2012_all_period_M03_data.gif

 

 

The other important elections are for the Senate. Of the 33 seats in play, 23 are held by Democrats. If the GOP picks up 4, they'll have a majority in the Senate. Expect this race to be interesting as well.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/gop-control-senate-top-races-watch/story?id=14374992#.T4oJP8VHNXI


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If I was American i would be voting for Ron Paul.

 

Flip flop mit, i don't know who in their right mind is voting for him. He changes his stance on issues so often and so fast that i don't think anyone who is for him even knows what his platform is.

 

Obama... I dont know who here on tip has the avatar but it sums him up quite nicely, "win the nobel peace prize, invade 3 countries". And his original slogan was "hope and change", this time it most likely will be "hope for change". Did he even follow through with any of the promises he made for his election?

 

Ron however has proven with his track record in the senet that he will try as hard as he can to fulfill his promises because he has been signing bills that follow his promises and against bills that don't since he entered office.

 

I hope your election won't be rigged like the last canadian elections.

 

To late. There have been so many problems and complaints made about the GOP so far that i'm surprised you havn't heard of them yet.


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Me behave? Seriously? As a child I saw Tarzan almost naked, Cinderella arrived home from a party after midnight, Pinocchio told lies, Aladin was a thief, Batman drove over 200 miles an hour, Snow White lived in a house with seven men, Popeye smoked a pipe and had tattoos, Pac man ran around to digital music while eating pills that enhanced his performance, and Shaggy and Scooby were mystery solving hippies who always had the munchies. The fault is not mine! if you had this childhood and loved it put this in your signature!

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I hope your election won't be rigged like the last canadian elections.

Well don't worry. Dead people and Disney characters only vote for Democrats.


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EDIT: In response to Ham's post: Yes, Parliamentary democracy is a far more flexible and sensible system than the Presidential system used in the Americas, France, Russia etc. There are myriad benefits to having a head of state who isn't also head of govt, as has been shown by the actions taken last Oct/Nov in Italy and Greece in response to crises. Going one step further, it's nice that the UK has a monarchy, because that way your head of state isn't some career politician, and rather a part of a traditional and cultural institution that's also good at taking action in a crisis.

One thing that's upsetting is the adaptation of the presidential system in countries with multiple large ethnic groups. Those perfectly straight borders literally drawn with pencil and ruler on a conference somewhere in Europe a century ago, divided peoples and put them in one system of government. Now they have to live in one country, and of course it makes perfect sense to take ONE leader with a massive amount of power instead of, say, a dozen ministers in a coalition government.

 

More on topic: as far as I know no candidate for the presidency has campaigned for, for example, gay marriage, the abolishment of death penalty and other basic things, so until they start doing that I can't take them seriously.


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In this day and age, it is impossible to safely be an isolationist, and one of the primary roles for the President is Commander in Chief (which is why I could never vote for Ron Paul). If Iran gets a nuclear weapon, Israel will probably be a bit of scorched earth. I don't see Ron Paul trying to stop that from happening.

 

I've never understood why people think that if Iran got a nuclear weapon they would launch it at Israel. Wouldn't they be ensuring their own destruction, then? the only would way that i see it happening is if mad men got a hold of one and everything (but we know the chances of that happening from historical precedent and simple analysis - next to nothing).

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as far as I know no candidate for the presidency has campaigned for, for example, gay marriage, the abolishment of death penalty and other basic things

 

The only one who has come close i believe, or at least heard about is Ron. What he wants to do is just get the federal government out of those decisions such as gay marriage and abortion and leave it up to individual states to decide on their stance on those issues.

 

mit as far as i'm aware is currently against both and i'm not sure on obama.


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Me behave? Seriously? As a child I saw Tarzan almost naked, Cinderella arrived home from a party after midnight, Pinocchio told lies, Aladin was a thief, Batman drove over 200 miles an hour, Snow White lived in a house with seven men, Popeye smoked a pipe and had tattoos, Pac man ran around to digital music while eating pills that enhanced his performance, and Shaggy and Scooby were mystery solving hippies who always had the munchies. The fault is not mine! if you had this childhood and loved it put this in your signature!

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In this day and age, it is impossible to safely be an isolationist, and one of the primary roles for the President is Commander in Chief (which is why I could never vote for Ron Paul). If Iran gets a nuclear weapon, Israel will probably be a bit of scorched earth. I don't see Ron Paul trying to stop that from happening.

 

I've never understood why people think that if Iran got a nuclear weapon they would launch it at Israel. Wouldn't they be ensuring their own destruction, then? the only would way that i see it happening is if mad men got a hold of one and everything (but we know the chances of that happening from historical precedent and simple analysis - next to nothing).

From a region of suicide bombers, do you think they care about their own destruction?


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While the number appears to be getting lower (good for Obama), what's really happening is far worse. Instead of people getting jobs, they're dropping out of the labor force (still unemployed, but not counted).

TVwix.png

Taken off of the front page of whitehouse.gov. Seems to me like people are getting jobs. (And yes I understand your point of people dropping out of the labor force, but this still shows overall job growth.)

 

 

Obama... I dont know who here on tip has the avatar but it sums him up quite nicely, "win the nobel peace prize, invade 3 countries".

If you're going to choose a way to criticize Obama, pick a better one, he's not asking for a peace prize.


 

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Taken off of the front page of whitehouse.gov. Seems to me like people are getting jobs.

High five for picking the most hyper-partisan source you could find.


99 dungeoneering achieved, thanks to everyone that celebrated with me!

 

♪♪ Don't interrupt me as I struggle to complete this thought
Have some respect for someone more forgetful than yourself ♪♪

♪♪ And I'm not done
And I won't be till my head falls off ♪♪

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If you're going to choose a way to criticize Obama, pick a better one, he's not asking for a peace prize.

 

no, but I do believe one of his promises was to bring the troops home, not spread them thinner with even more campaigns.


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Me behave? Seriously? As a child I saw Tarzan almost naked, Cinderella arrived home from a party after midnight, Pinocchio told lies, Aladin was a thief, Batman drove over 200 miles an hour, Snow White lived in a house with seven men, Popeye smoked a pipe and had tattoos, Pac man ran around to digital music while eating pills that enhanced his performance, and Shaggy and Scooby were mystery solving hippies who always had the munchies. The fault is not mine! if you had this childhood and loved it put this in your signature!

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More on topic: as far as I know no candidate for the presidency has campaigned for, for example, gay marriage, the abolishment of death penalty and other basic things, so until they start doing that I can't take them seriously.

 

just because they don't campaign for those things doesn't mean they don't strongly believe in them. there are just certain things it's not politically viable to talk about in america (yet). so if you want to be a politician and try to do some good things, then you might end up having to compromise about what you talk about - but that's a compromise many politicians are willing to make, and a compromise which i applaud them for - because it is a compromise that must be made (for now) if we are to eventually reshape politics here (make it more accommodating to scientists, and so on).

 

The reason why some things are not viable to campaign about is more due to the powers that control large potions of the political sphere - and the way they brainwash the electorate - than with your average politician, mayor, presidential candidate, etc. But those people are dieing and younger people have more and more money and influence, so things are going in the right direction i think.

 

I suspect that Ron Paul, for example, would not be bothered by gay marraige rights, and that Obama might be much less religious than his compaign might want the public to believe. but there is a certain restraint with regards to gay marriage, and a certain religiosity that one must have, to campaign successfully on the national level right now. it's sad it's that way, but it's only through electing people with closeted faithlessness or support for gay marriage, that the demographics of politicians will change.

 

Sorry I feel like i rambled a bit! I just feel it's a bit premature to write candidates off because they don't support things that they can't support to be candidates in the first place!

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impossible

 

Key word.

 

 

 

BUSH 2012!

 

First, that's two words. Second, there wasn't a chance in hell jeb Bush was running this year, any candidate who has an actual shot is waiting for 2016 since the American people re-elect a first term president ~75% of the time. Third, Jeb Bush supports Romney fully so I doubt voting for one would be any different from the other. Fourth, why in the hell would we want another Bush in the office? We've already had two and the second one was disastrous.


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Taken off of the front page of whitehouse.gov. Seems to me like people are getting jobs.

High five for picking the most hyper-partisan source you could find.

That would really only be relevant if the information was incorrect. I could find other sources giving the same statistics if you want them. I'm debating here mostly to learn, so if you'd like to enlighten me on the real facts instead of picking out a single sentence from my post to make a pointless remark on, I'm listening.


 

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as far as I know no candidate for the presidency has campaigned for, for example, gay marriage, the abolishment of death penalty and other basic things

 

The only one who has come close i believe, or at least heard about is Ron. What he wants to do is just get the federal government out of those decisions such as gay marriage and abortion and leave it up to individual states to decide on their stance on those issues.

You can't really come close to campaigning for something without supporting it. What Paul says is pretty much unrelated to the issues themselves.

 

@Enfield: I know, but it's still annoying to see the US profiling itself as 'leader of the civilized world' and still executing people >.>.

 

From a region of suicide bombers, do you think they care about their own destruction?

That's a cruel joke (I hope).


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impossible

 

Key word.

 

 

 

BUSH 2012!

 

First, that's two words. Second, there wasn't a chance in hell jeb Bush was running this year, any candidate who has an actual shot is waiting for 2016 since the American people re-elect a first term president ~75% of the time. Third, Jeb Bush supports Romney fully so I doubt voting for one would be any different from the other. Fourth, why in the hell would we want another Bush in the office? We've already had two and the second one was disastrous.

I think Vezon was somehow trying to assert that it was actually impossible to get really sick or lose access to health insurance. I think he's just trolling or something.


 

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From a region of suicide bombers, do you think they care about their own destruction?

 

i do think very much that the government and politicians and officials care about the persistence of their countries, and would not do something knowing that it would doom them.

 

I believe those are the conclusions that must be drawn from the way their governments operate, from what it does. if they operated with a suicide-bomber mentality, then perhaps one could argue differently. But I believe wealth and being alive is very important to the people who control the region - more important than sacrificing everything to wipe out a country.

 

Here's a quote from an A.I researcher which i like:

 

All else being equal, not many people would prefer to destroy the world. Even faceless

corporations, meddling governments, reckless scientists, and other agents of doom, require a

world in which to achieve their goals of profit, order, tenure, or other villainies. If our

extinction proceeds slowly enough to allow a moment of horrified realization, the doers of

the deed will likely be quite taken aback on realizing that they have actually destroyed the

world. Therefore I suggest that if the Earth is destroyed, it will probably be by mistake.

 

it is true that there are exceptions. but those exceptions tend to be people without much capacity to destroy the world anyway, i think. I'm realizing this quote isn't 100% relevant, but meh.

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If the primaries had lasted through May, I would have voted for Rick Santorum. The reason being is that Romney has a millstone around his neck from Romney-care.

 

Wow. I've two questions here, really:

1. Why Santorum? To me, he seems like a backwards, slightly stupid and absurdly Christian political charicature, with no legitimacy as a President.

2. Why is Romney-care so awful? I've yet to see a good argument for why adopting a system that Europe has successfully had in place since, in the UK at least, the 1940s is a bad idea.

 

impossible

 

Key word.

 

 

 

BUSH 2012!

 

 

Trolling, surely?

 

 

In this day and age, it is impossible to safely be an isolationist, and one of the primary roles for the President is Commander in Chief (which is why I could never vote for Ron Paul). If Iran gets a nuclear weapon, Israel will probably be a bit of scorched earth. I don't see Ron Paul trying to stop that from happening.

 

I've never understood why people think that if Iran got a nuclear weapon they would launch it at Israel. Wouldn't they be ensuring their own destruction, then? the only would way that i see it happening is if mad men got a hold of one and everything (but we know the chances of that happening from historical precedent and simple analysis - next to nothing).

From a region of suicide bombers, do you think they care about their own destruction?

That is an incredibly crass and ill-informed generalisation. Remember that 'suicide bombers' are almost without exception fundamentalist Sunni groups. Iran, on the other hand, is a well organised Shia state that uses proxies such as Hezbollah - which has enough rockets (c. 15,000) not to need suicide bombers for the most part - and has in fact waged a calculated proxy war against the USA et al. In short, Iran is not going to blow it. More likely, it seeks nuclear weapons in order that it may have them as a deterrent against Israel - let us not forget that the Netanyahu wants rocket strikes against Iran, not the other way around - and so that it can continue to assert itself as a regional power.

 

The problem is that our perception of Iran has been badly skewed by the media, and if one looks at Iranian rhetoric with a little more cultural context than Fox News and Sky are willing to give, the Iranian problem, though certainly a problem, becomes less of a threat.

 

a) Ayatollah Khomeini's famous name for the USA - the 'Great Satan' - does not mean that the USA is some demonic entity. Rather, in the context in which a Muslim cleric uses it, this term is rather less scary: in Islam, the Devil has always been thought of as something that acts from within, tempting the hearts of men. This is rather distinct from the traditional Christian view, and thus we tend to interpret the term in a Christian way. In reality, the term means, in our terminology, something more akin to 'Great Tempter' etc. Yet, without explanation, Iran suddenly seems a lot more dangerous than it really is.

 

b) 'Israel will be wiped off the map' does not mean Israel will be obliterated by a nuclear bomb. It is a rhetorical way of saying that Israel will not be able to withstand the pressures that come with its existence. Again, less sinister than one might originally think.

 

My point here is that, though I am certainly no Iranian apologist, our approach to Iran is so overblown and paranoid, thanks to the subtle misinformations of the media, that, as seen in the above posts, there is a tendency to talk of Iran as more of a threat than it is.



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okay quyneax. yeah i thought you probably knew. but american politics can be frustrating to observe for sure.

 

I don't see the existence and use of a death penalty as being anything like the epitome of american hypocrisy though - sure there are those for which the punishment inflicts much suffering, but then there are those wishing they could get it which can't, and there are those for who the punishment of living out their lives in jail would be worse. ideally, probably the convict should be able to choose to have a lethal injection if he wants, and it shouldn't be mandatory for anyone.

 

i do think the death penalties' ability to make a statement is interesting. you know, there was this milk scandal in China a while back, where to get the watered-down milk though the quality insurance measures it was doped with this toxic, nitrogenous compound, which simulated the protein content of pure milk. And 1000's of kids got sick, and a handful died, and there was public outcry, and so on.

 

and what did the chinese government do? They ended up sentencing a number of the people involved to death. I feel that is probably a much better anti-corruption measure then sentencing them to life would have been. of course, one has to wonder how much it was done to appease the public, and how much it was done to prevent such atrocities from happening in the future. nonetheless my immediate reaction to hearing that was - yeah! they got what they deserved. way to go!

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If the primaries had lasted through May, I would have voted for Rick Santorum. The reason being is that Romney has a millstone around his neck from Romney-care.

 

Wow. I've two questions here, really:

1. Why Santorum? To me, he seems like a backwards, slightly stupid and absurdly Christian political charicature, with no legitimacy as a President.

2. Why is Romney-care so awful? I've yet to see a good argument for why adopting a system that Europe has successfully had in place since, in the UK at least, the 1940s is a bad idea.

Santorum isn't progressive, and doesn't have Romney-care

Big government is always a bad idea.

In this day and age, it is impossible to safely be an isolationist, and one of the primary roles for the President is Commander in Chief (which is why I could never vote for Ron Paul). If Iran gets a nuclear weapon, Israel will probably be a bit of scorched earth. I don't see Ron Paul trying to stop that from happening.

 

I've never understood why people think that if Iran got a nuclear weapon they would launch it at Israel. Wouldn't they be ensuring their own destruction, then? the only would way that i see it happening is if mad men got a hold of one and everything (but we know the chances of that happening from historical precedent and simple analysis - next to nothing).

From a region of suicide bombers, do you think they care about their own destruction?

That is an incredibly crass and ill-informed generalisation. Remember that 'suicide bombers' are almost without exception fundamentalist Sunni groups. Iran, on the other hand, is a well organised Shia state that uses proxies such as Hezbollah - which has enough rockets (c. 15,000) not to need suicide bombers for the most part - and has in fact waged a calculated proxy war against the USA et al. In short, Iran is not going to blow it. More likely, it seeks nuclear weapons in order that it may have them as a deterrent against Israel - let us not forget that the Netanyahu wants rocket strikes against Iran, not the other way around - and so that it can continue to assert itself as a regional power.

I don't understand your point... "Iran won't nuke Israel because it already has Hezbollah to send rockets for them." That's reassuring.


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I'm going to vote for Obama again. I only hope that John Boehner fails to be re elected as Speaker of the house in the fall. The guy is just one giant [rooster] block to progression.


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If the primaries had lasted through May, I would have voted for Rick Santorum. The reason being is that Romney has a millstone around his neck from Romney-care.

 

Wow. I've two questions here, really:

1. Why Santorum? To me, he seems like a backwards, slightly stupid and absurdly Christian political charicature, with no legitimacy as a President.

2. Why is Romney-care so awful? I've yet to see a good argument for why adopting a system that Europe has successfully had in place since, in the UK at least, the 1940s is a bad idea.

Santorum isn't progressive, and doesn't have Romney-care

Big government is always a bad idea.

My great grandmother also isn't progressive, nor does she have Romney-care. Is she a valid Presidential candidate?

And precisely why is big government always a bad idea? I'm sure a small government would have struggled to bail out banks in 2008-9 etc, a problem caused by a lack of regulation and small government approach to banking.

 

In this day and age, it is impossible to safely be an isolationist, and one of the primary roles for the President is Commander in Chief (which is why I could never vote for Ron Paul). If Iran gets a nuclear weapon, Israel will probably be a bit of scorched earth. I don't see Ron Paul trying to stop that from happening.

 

I've never understood why people think that if Iran got a nuclear weapon they would launch it at Israel. Wouldn't they be ensuring their own destruction, then? the only would way that i see it happening is if mad men got a hold of one and everything (but we know the chances of that happening from historical precedent and simple analysis - next to nothing).

From a region of suicide bombers, do you think they care about their own destruction?

That is an incredibly crass and ill-informed generalisation. Remember that 'suicide bombers' are almost without exception fundamentalist Sunni groups. Iran, on the other hand, is a well organised Shia state that uses proxies such as Hezbollah - which has enough rockets (c. 15,000) not to need suicide bombers for the most part - and has in fact waged a calculated proxy war against the USA et al. In short, Iran is not going to blow it. More likely, it seeks nuclear weapons in order that it may have them as a deterrent against Israel - let us not forget that the Netanyahu wants rocket strikes against Iran, not the other way around - and so that it can continue to assert itself as a regional power.

I don't understand your point... "Iran won't nuke Israel because it already has Hezbollah to send rockets for them." That's reassuring.

You know that wasn't the point. I was pointing out how derogatory and wrong your entire discourse about the Iranian problem was, because it is based in the popular misconception of Iran which comes from leaving cultural factors unexplained, and is best surmised in your comment on how the Middle East is a "region of suicide bombers". Aside from it being a very silly generalisation, it also fails to factor in the difference between the Sunni suicide bombers and subtler Shia terrorism, and implies that Iran is a self-destructive state. The reference to Hezbollah was merely illustrative of the point that Iran is too well-coordinated to need suicide bombers. My aim was only to inform you, not reassure you.



"Imagine yourself surrounded by the most horrible cripples and maniacs it is possible to conceive, and you may understand a little of my feelings with these grotesque caricatures of humanity about me."

- H.G. Wells, The Island of Doctor Moreau

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I can't vote in the states, not being a citizen and all...

 

But if I could I think I would sign up as a Democrat and never watch another political discussion again for a decade. America hits me as the most conservative democratic country in the world, so I figure the rest of the developed world as a whole is probably happier when a democrat is in office (because it probably means less world policing and wars). Also, as an issue I can't abide, the Republicans seem to be pro religion. I like my religion and state as far away from each other as possible, and I like my politicians to be moderates or atheists.

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