10 Year Veteran Cape + Solomon's Store, 17th July

[Yoko Kurama]

I don't accept all this talk about how unfair it is to judge these people for engaging in micro transactions.

 

[bleep] it, I will judge people all I want. Why? Because their, albeit, personal shopping decisions have a huge social impact within the realm of the game. By spending money on such things, these people are reinforcing and encouraging this sort of behaviour from Jagex; they are subsiding it. It's the same moral principle behind boycotts. They are encouraging a regime that is consistently, as of late, putting out filler -- or worse yet -- no content at all, too preoccupied with micro transactions, while there are problems with [bleep]ING logging in, you know actually accessing the product. And I also blame the Gower brothers, I rather like them and used to respect them, and their regime certainly didn't have this sort of shit, but it was ultimately Andrew who decided to take his millions of pounds(more than enough to live the rest of his life in absolute luxury) and run off to make more money, selling the game to vulture(sorry, I meant "venture") capitalists, whose only concern is making money at any cost, the rest of the game be damned. So, yes, [cabbage] the players who subside this sort of stuff, [cabbage] this insidious regime, and [cabbage] the Gowers who shafted their own game.

[Ammako]

I don't accept all this talk about how unfair it is to judge these people for engaging in micro transactions.

 

[bleep] it, I will judge people all I want. Why? Because their, albeit, personal shopping decisions have a huge social impact within the realm of the game. By spending money on such things, these people are reinforcing and encouraging this sort of behaviour from Jagex; they are subsiding it. It's the same moral principle behind boycotts. They are encouraging a regime that is consistently, as of late, putting out filler -- or worse yet -- no content at all, too preoccupied with micro transactions, while there are problems with [bleep]ING logging in, you know actually accessing the product. And I also blame the Gower brothers, I rather like them and used to respect them, and their regime certainly didn't have this sort of shit, but it was ultimately Andrew who decided to take his millions of pounds(more than enough to live the rest of his life in absolute luxury) and run off to make more money, selling the game to vulture(sorry, I meant "venture") capitalists, whose only concern is making money at any cost, the rest of the game be damned. So, yes, [cabbage] the players who subside this sort of stuff, [cabbage] this insidious regime, and [cabbage] the Gowers who shafted their own game.

 

 

 

 

Stop attempting to shove your opinion down everyone's throat.

 

If these people enjoy microtransactions, then it's not your problem.

The people buy the items in Solomon's General Store. Ok.

 

If anything, doing that is showing that people support purely cosmetic microtransactions.

 

If Jagex does release microtransactions that provide "unfair" advantage, then sure, complain all you want.

For now, this hasn't happened yet, and the players buying 100% cosmetic upgrades from Solomon's Store aren't showing support for that right now.

[pkinyou]

I actually like the new Solomon's store, I mean HONESTLY i've always wanted some sort of other kind of being to be on RS. So I bucked up and paid the 5 bucks in runecoins to get the feline outfit. Zero [bleep]s are given today, cause I look like a mf cat and I'm loving it. Best thing to happen to RS in years tbh. lol

[Hedgehog]

I don't accept all this talk about how unfair it is to judge these people for engaging in micro transactions.

 

[bleep] it, I will judge people all I want. Why? Because their, albeit, personal shopping decisions have a huge social impact within the realm of the game. By spending money on such things, these people are reinforcing and encouraging this sort of behaviour from Jagex; they are subsiding it. It's the same moral principle behind boycotts. They are encouraging a regime that is consistently, as of late, putting out filler -- or worse yet -- no content at all, too preoccupied with micro transactions, while there are problems with [bleep]ING logging in, you know actually accessing the product. And I also blame the Gower brothers, I rather like them and used to respect them, and their regime certainly didn't have this sort of shit, but it was ultimately Andrew who decided to take his millions of pounds(more than enough to live the rest of his life in absolute luxury) and run off to make more money, selling the game to vulture(sorry, I meant "venture") capitalists, whose only concern is making money at any cost, the rest of the game be damned. So, yes, [cabbage] the players who subside this sort of stuff, [cabbage] this insidious regime, and [cabbage] the Gowers who shafted their own game.

 

 

 

 

Stop attempting to shove your opinion down everyone's throat.

 

If these people enjoy microtransactions, then it's not your problem.

The people buy the items in Solomon's General Store. Ok.

 

If anything, doing that is showing that people support purely cosmetic microtransactions.

 

If Jagex does release microtransactions that provide "unfair" advantage, then sure, complain all you want.

For now, this hasn't happened yet, and the players buying 100% cosmetic upgrades from Solomon's Store aren't showing support for that right now.

How narrow-minded do you have to be to think that? If you pay for something, you create a demand. When a demand is created, someone will attempt to meet that demand by increasing the supply.

[Ammako]

I don't accept all this talk about how unfair it is to judge these people for engaging in micro transactions.

 

[bleep] it, I will judge people all I want. Why? Because their, albeit, personal shopping decisions have a huge social impact within the realm of the game. By spending money on such things, these people are reinforcing and encouraging this sort of behaviour from Jagex; they are subsiding it. It's the same moral principle behind boycotts. They are encouraging a regime that is consistently, as of late, putting out filler -- or worse yet -- no content at all, too preoccupied with micro transactions, while there are problems with [bleep]ING logging in, you know actually accessing the product. And I also blame the Gower brothers, I rather like them and used to respect them, and their regime certainly didn't have this sort of shit, but it was ultimately Andrew who decided to take his millions of pounds(more than enough to live the rest of his life in absolute luxury) and run off to make more money, selling the game to vulture(sorry, I meant "venture") capitalists, whose only concern is making money at any cost, the rest of the game be damned. So, yes, [cabbage] the players who subside this sort of stuff, [cabbage] this insidious regime, and [cabbage] the Gowers who shafted their own game.

 

 

 

 

Stop attempting to shove your opinion down everyone's throat.

 

If these people enjoy microtransactions, then it's not your problem.

The people buy the items in Solomon's General Store. Ok.

 

If anything, doing that is showing that people support purely cosmetic microtransactions.

 

If Jagex does release microtransactions that provide "unfair" advantage, then sure, complain all you want.

For now, this hasn't happened yet, and the players buying 100% cosmetic upgrades from Solomon's Store aren't showing support for that right now.

How narrow-minded do you have to be to think that? If you pay for something, you create a demand. When a demand is created, someone will attempt to meet that demand by increasing the supply.

By increasing the supply of the current demand.

 

They're showing that they support the current 100% cosmetic things bought with microtransactions, not those that give in-game advantage.

 

Increasing demand = increasing supply of something entirely different? I think not.

[Yoko Kurama]

 

Stop attempting to shove your opinion down everyone's throat.

 

Voicing your opinion once in a thread, even if it happens to be judgemental is not tantamount to "shoving one's opinion down other people's throat". If you are going to come in and try to save the day, try actually understanding what your tired old cliches mean before using them. That way you won't make a fool out of yourself. Pr0 phr33 tip,bro!

 

If these people enjoy microtransactions, then it's not your problem.

 

I already explained the social consequences of their personal choices, thus immediately making this my problem, and that of others. So in addition to not knowing what your own cliches mean, you also aren't terribly good at reading comprehension either. Not too surprising.

 

 

If anything, doing that is showing that people support purely cosmetic microtransactions.

 

That only detracts time and resources from real updates, and encourages Jagex to develop even more micro-transactions:including cosmetic and substantive game altering ones.

 

 

For now, this hasn't happened yet, and the players buying 100% cosmetic upgrades from Solomon's Store aren't showing support for that right now.

 

It already has happened to an extent(with the XP lamps) and Solomon's general store is simply one more step in that direction.

[Alg]

How narrow-minded do you have to be to think that? If you pay for something, you create a demand. When a demand is created, someone will attempt to meet that demand by increasing the supply.

That's really going to happen anyway though. People are buying the things, just as they were when Squeal spins went on sale. As much as we love to hate them, microtransactions worked. That's why we got more of them.

 

Judging people for it isn't going to stop them from buying, in fact it comes across as shouting at people for not playing the game the 'right' way... Which is a problem that this forum is all too familiar with.

[Grasle]

Stat-less outfits, titles, and outfits I'm not bothered by - but I personally don't like that some things, such as improved skilling animations, are only available through micro-transactions. It's not very far off from Jagex trying to capitalize on stuff that could instead improve the game as a whole. Whether or not we get to mine ore by banging our head on rocks isn't a game changer, but you catch my drift.

[Ammako]

 

Stop attempting to shove your opinion down everyone's throat.

 

Voicing your opinion once in a thread, even if it happens to be judgemental is not tantamount to "shoving one's opinion down other people's throat". If you are going to come in and try to save the day, try actually understanding what your tired old cliches mean before using them. That way you won't make a fool out of yourself. Pr0 phr33 tip,bro!

If you're going to be judging people based on whether or not they buy Runecoins, I'm going to take that as "shoving your opinion down others' throats."

 

If these people enjoy microtransactions, then it's not your problem.

 

I already explained the social consequences of their personal choices, thus immediately making this my problem, and that of others. So in addition to not knowing what your own cliches mean, you also aren't terribly good at reading comprehension either. Not too surprising.

It's supposed to be your problem that others decide to enjoy their money however they want by buying purely cosmetic items?

 

If anything, doing that is showing that people support purely cosmetic microtransactions.

 

That only detracts time and resources from real updates, and encourages Jagex to develop even more micro-transactions:including cosmetic and substantive game altering ones.

Except that if IVP sees that more player buy the cosmetic microtransaction content than those that give advantages, then they'll see they can squeeze more money out of cosmetic ones.

 

For now, this hasn't happened yet, and the players buying 100% cosmetic upgrades from Solomon's Store aren't showing support for that right now.

It already has happened to an extent(with the XP lamps) and Solomon's general store is simply one more step in that direction.

Solomon's general store is one more step in that direction?

If anything, it's a step back in the "unfair advantages" department, considering SoF had exp lamps + Lucky items from the start while Solomon's General Store has none of it.

Sorry, but I haven't seen anything non-cosmetic in Solomon's General Store so far.

[Yoko Kurama]

If you're going to be judging people based on whether or not they buy Runecoins, I'm going to take that as "shoving your opinion down others' throats."

 

Your personal opinion on the matter is irrelevant;words and phrases have a specific meaning. The phrase "shoving one's opinion down someone else's throat" specifically denotes repeatedly stating your opinion(often when it is unwanted), and insisting people adopt it. I have done no such thing. Simply stating your opinion, even if it happens to be judgemental of someone else is not "shoving my opinion down other people's throats". If you need any further help with understanding basic English phrases and idioms, I'd be happy to help, I know you've been struggling with these.

 

 

It's supposed to be your problem that others decide to enjoy their money however they want by buying purely cosmetic items?

 

Predictably, you have failed to read or perhaps understand what was said yet again. What part of "their personal decisions have social consequences" do you not understand? Would you prefer that I break down that statement, and explain the meaning of each individual word to you?

 

 

Except that if IVP sees that more player buy the cosmetic microtransaction content than those that give advantages, then they'll see they can squeeze more money out of cosmetic ones.

 

 

Solomon's general store is one more step in that direction?

If anything, it's a step back in the "unfair advantages" department, considering SoF had exp lamps + Lucky items from the start while Solomon's General Store has none of it.

 

Sorry, but I haven't seen anything non-cosmetic in Solomon's General Store so far.

 

 

That(people buying more cosmetic gear than game-altering gear) has not yet happened, or if it has, no evidence has been provided to confirm this. RS enjoyed, prior to the current regime, a proud tradition that it would never engage in micro-transactions of any kind. By partaking in and tolerating a subset of micro transactions(e.g., cosmetic gear), these players are directly and actively undermining that tradition, which as stated above, has grave consequences for the rest of us.

 

 

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Alg wrote:

 

Judging people for it isn't going to stop them from buying, in fact it comes across as shouting at people for not playing the game the 'right' way... Which is a problem that this forum is all too familiar with.

 

False. Social pressure can be incredibly effective if intensely applied. Furthermore, if anything, the only thing this forum has become somewhat familiar with, and known-for, over the years has been its legion of Jagex apologists and brown-nosers. Mind you, I am not calling anyone in this thread that, but that is a general problem this forum has.

[Ammako]

If you're going to be judging people based on whether or not they buy Runecoins, I'm going to take that as "shoving your opinion down others' throats."

 

Your personal opinion on the matter is irrelevant;words and phrases have a specific meaning. The phrase "shoving one's opinion down someone else's throat" specifically denotes repeatedly stating your opinion(often when it is unwanted), and insisting people adopt it. I have done no such thing. Simply stating your opinion, even if it happens to be judgemental of someone else is not "shoving my opinion down other people's throats". If you need any further help with understanding basic English phrases and idioms, I'd be happy to help, I know you've been struggling with these.

Refer to my statement above.

 

It's supposed to be your problem that others decide to enjoy their money however they want by buying purely cosmetic items?

 

Predictably, you have failed to read or perhaps understand what was said yet again. What part of "their personal decisions have social consequences" do you not understand? Would you prefer that I break down that statement, and explain the meaning of each individual word to you?

Actually, yes, do it.

Because right now, it just sounds to me like you're butthurt because people chose to enjoy something you strongly dislike.

 

 

Except that if IVP sees that more player buy the cosmetic microtransaction content than those that give advantages, then they'll see they can squeeze more money out of cosmetic ones.

 

Solomon's general store is one more step in that direction?

If anything, it's a step back in the "unfair advantages" department, considering SoF had exp lamps + Lucky items from the start while Solomon's General Store has none of it.

 

Sorry, but I haven't seen anything non-cosmetic in Solomon's General Store so far.

 

RS enjoyed, prior to the current regime, a proud tradition that it would never engage in micro-transactions of any kind. By partaking in and tolerating a subset of micro transactions(e.g., cosmetic gear), these players are directly and actively undermining that tradition, which as stated above, has grave consequences for the rest of us.

 

Yes.

But you know what?

Those who were in charge of Jagex back then aren't there anymore.

Do you know what that means?

 

I fail to see how switching over to a strict no microtransactions policy to having microtransactions has grave consequences on everyone.

[Yoko Kurama]

Refer to my statement above.

 

Simply repeating, or redirecting me to your erroneous assertion that I was "shoving my opinion down other people's throats" will not suddenly make it accurate.

 

 

 

Because right now, it just sounds to me like you're butthurt because people chose to enjoy something you strongly dislike.

 

On the contrary, I don't lose any sleep over it, nor do I obsess over other people purchasing micro transactions. It is something that I strongly disapprove of, and I have made that known in this thread, but that's it. It's rather like botting, another thing which I strongly disapprove of, but it has no immediate bearing on me. I am a relatively high-level player whose training spots are bot-free, so bots aren't a daily annoyance to me like they are to others, but I still disapprove of people using them, and I still think they have disastrous social consequences for the general RS community, particularly lower-level players. I am not "butthurt" over them, though, much like I am not "butthurt" over micro transactions.

 

Ironically though, you seem to be struggling with the notion that there are actually people like me that simply disapprove(it isn't as if I go around rioting, or harassing micro transactors, I simply hold an opinion on their action which I have made public herein) of micro transactions, you can't seem to bear it, and insist that merely holding the opinion of disapproving of the act of micro transacting is "shoving down my opinion down other people's throat", it seems you are the one butthurt over people simply holding an opinion.

 

 

Yes.

But you know what?

Those who were in charge of Jagex back then aren't there anymore.

Do you know what that means?

 

I am perfectly aware that the administration has changed and what precisely that implies. Which is why I am quite sensibly, voicing my opinion that prior to their taking over the reins, there was a long-held tradition that I(and others) would still very much like being upheld. Nothing wrong, or insensible about that.

 

I fail to see how switching over to a strict no microtransactions policy to having microtransactions has grave consequences on everyone.

 

It has material and symbolic consequences. Some players feel that this devalues their accomplishments(I don't personally feel this way), this is a symbolic/emotional/personal consequence. Some rather well-known players(e.g., Zezima, Zarfot) have voiced such concerns. There are several material consequences, it encourages Jagex to develop more micro transactions, taking time away from other updates, but more importantly it normalizes micro transactions and once that happens, suddenly aspects which previously were obtainable by simply playing P2P and working hard, now become available through only or perhaps mostly micro transactions, say such as high-level gear. If enough players signify, with their wallets, to Jagex that they are okay with purchasing stuff(surely a sizeable amount, if not most, of those who would purchase worthless cosmetic gear, would also be willing to pay for important and useful stuff), then Jagex will charge for more stuff, and the rest of us, who aren't fond of micro transactions will have to buy important stuff in order to stay competitive/enjoy the game, when we previously didn't. That's a material consequence that affects a great deal of us. As they say, it's somewhat of a slippery slope(which before any smartass decides to jump in, is not always a fallacy).

[Ammako]

Because right now, it just sounds to me like you're butthurt because people chose to enjoy something you strongly dislike.

On the contrary, I don't lose any sleep over it, nor do I obsess over other people purchasing micro transactions. It is something that I strongly disapprove of, and I have made that known in this thread, but that's it. It's rather like botting, another thing which I strongly disapprove of, but it has no immediate bearing on me. I am a relatively high-level player whose training spots are bot-free, so bots aren't a daily annoyance to me like they are to others, but I still disapprove of people using them, and I still think they have disastrous social consequences for the general RS community, particularly lower-level players. I am not "butthurt" over them, though, much like I am not "butthurt" over micro transactions.

 

Ironically though, you seem to be struggling with the notion that there are actually people like me that simply disapprove(it isn't as if I go around rioting, or harassing micro transactors, I simply hold an opinion on their action which I have made public herein) of micro transactions, you can't seem to bear it, and insist that merely holding the opinion of disapproving of the act of micro transacting is "shoving down my opinion down other people's throat", it seems you are the one butthurt over people simply holding an opinion.

Please answer my question instead of dodging it.

[Jaybear]

I honestly don't mind the Solomon's store as long as it stays purely cosmetic. I'm fearing they'll do what they did with SoF and make it harmless at first and then introduce something else players don't like(ie; buying spins) and make it into something worse.

[Ammako]

I honestly don't mind the Solomon's store as long as it stays purely cosmetic. I'm fearing they'll do what they did with SoF and make it harmless at first and then introduce something else players don't like(ie; buying spins) and make it into something worse.

To be fair, it already had exp lamps + Lucky items at release.

[Yoko Kurama]

Please answer my question instead of dodging it.

 

What question would that be? I already answered at a decent length all the relevant points you brought up -- which you seem to have completely failed to address in this post of yours.

[Ts_Stormrage]

Can you guys stop the flamewar? Yes, social pressure works to deter people from RWT-ing... But writing a post in a thread on page x isn't going to work...

 

Wanna tell a lot more people at the same time? Make a sig or something...

[Sy_Accursed]

I honestly don't mind the Solomon's store as long as it stays purely cosmetic. I'm fearing they'll do what they did with SoF and make it harmless at first and then introduce something else players don't like(ie; buying spins) and make it into something worse.

To be fair, it already had exp lamps + Lucky items at release.

 

They key difference however was that SoF originally was just 1-2 free spins a day, so it was kinda harmless if a bit of a strange move. They then made it bad with wedging in the buying of spins.

[Jaybear]

I honestly don't mind the Solomon's store as long as it stays purely cosmetic. I'm fearing they'll do what they did with SoF and make it harmless at first and then introduce something else players don't like(ie; buying spins) and make it into something worse.

To be fair, it already had exp lamps + Lucky items at release.

 

I understand that, but at the time of release when everyone hair fair and equal chance of getting said items off the squeel of fortune it wasn't 100% affecting my gameplay, and it still isn't to this day. If people want to go out and spend money on it for a chance of an item, let them. It's not bothering me.

[Alg]

False. Social pressure can be incredibly effective if intensely applied. Furthermore, if anything, the only thing this forum has become somewhat familiar with, and known-for, over the years has been its legion of Jagex apologists and brown-nosers. Mind you, I am not calling anyone in this thread that, but that is a general problem this forum has.

I thought we were more of an elitist community, personally... :razz: We have a community primarily made of high-level players that have played since 2006 at the latest, and we're very out of touch. There are valid complaints, of course, but a lot of them are undercut by people worrying about how prestigious their achievements are.

 

The thing is, people are still buying the spins and cosmetics. A new player isn't going to avoid doing that because some maxed player on a fansite is telling him not to. It's why we have people buying spins for "research" but only a few of them are actually posting results. If you took to shouting down anyone that bought spins, they wouldn't think "Man, I should stop buying spins", they'll think "Man, that guy's an [wagon]".

 

Even then, it'd get mixed with pressure to succeed at the game. The player might want a high slayer level. He probably doesn't have time to sit there at less than 10k experience per hour, so he buys spins and gets the level. We had the same 'problem' with people getting cooking/fletching/firemaking capes all those years ago - you had people insulted for wearing them, but people still got them.

[Robert_R]

A little over 2 years away from the 10 year cape. Thought my account was old than that but I guess not.

[Yoko Kurama]

Can you guys stop the flamewar?

 

I admit my posts were somewhat abrasive but only so because the person towards whom the abrasiveness was directed towards jumped into this thread with a similar attitude towards. I wouldn't have noticed it too much but this is not the first time that user has been discourteous to me. Abrasiveness begets abrasiveness. I am more than happy to treat with people courtesy and respect provided they treat me in a similar manner.In any case, I apologize if my attitude has been inappropriate, and I will try to minimize that.

 

Yes, social pressure works to deter people from RWT-ing... But writing a post in a thread on page x isn't going to work...

 

I never stated that my posts or efforts in this thread were somehow going to stop this. Nor am I some sort of crusader. If I was interested in making myself known or directly stopping this, I would probably make rants, petitions, organize riots, etc., all the usual stuff, I have no interest in any of that. I simply made my opinion known in this thread(which is, of course, what threads are for). My comment on social pressure was merely to state, just for the sake of discussion, that contrary to what was stated, judgement and social pressure can be effective. That's to say, if the RS community wanted, they could shame these people into submission, to some extent at least.

 

Wanna tell a lot more people at the same time? Make a sig or something...

 

I came here only for discussion, not to crusade or to make my views known to lot of people. I was somewhat taken back by all the responses claiming that we have no right to judge others and their spending habits -- I took issue with that and thought I had something different to share, so I came in and discussed, that's all.

 

 

 

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Alg wrote;

 

 

I thought we were more of an elitist community, personally... :razz: We have a community primarily made of high-level players that have played since 2006 at the latest, and we're very out of touch.

 

Well, I am part of that group too I suppose, I have been around RS for some 9-10 years at this stage.

 

 

There are valid complaints, of course, but a lot of them are undercut by people worrying about how prestigious their achievements are.

 

I have personally never been part of the "ZOMG, Fletch X has made my achievements completely worthless! Dat evil Jagex!!!" group.

 

The thing is, people are still buying the spins and cosmetics. A new player isn't going to avoid doing that because some maxed player on a fansite is telling him not to. It's why we have people buying spins for "research" but only a few of them are actually posting results. If you took to shouting down anyone that bought spins, they wouldn't think "Man, I should stop buying spins", they'll think "Man, that guy's an [wagon]".

 

 

 

*Emphasis mine.

 

Just to clear up a few things which you have not necessarily stated, but I feel some people are assuming about me.

 

Firstly, I did not post in this thread as a means of activism. I did not post here to personally convince someone or to sway them in some other direction. I posted here only to participate in a discussion, a mostly academic discussion. So am I under the perception that players will read my posts and suddenly stop buying spins? No.

 

Secondly, I previously stated that I do not go around harassing micro transactors. I don't think insulting people is a productive activity. There was a research thread here where someone bought 970 spins, I don't recall if I participated in it, I might have made one post. Nonetheless, I didn't berate the OP at all.

 

Thirdly, social pressure is not about harassing people or yelling at them or insulting them. That's just bad manners and juvenile douche-baggery. Mind you, I did hand out a few [cabbages] earlier in this thread, but that was for rhetorical purposes, only to counter-act the stringent line of thought that was developing in this thread, "You have no right to judge-others".

 

Even then, it'd get mixed with pressure to succeed at the game. The player might want a high slayer level. He probably doesn't have time to sit there at less than 10k experience per hour, so he buys spins and gets the level. We had the same 'problem' with people getting cooking/fletching/firemaking capes all those years ago - you had people insulted for wearing them, but people still got them.

 

No one stated that social pressure would eliminate all the problems in RS, I simply refuted the inaccurate notion that being judgemental accomplishes nothing. My application of social pressure won't accomplish much, but that's because I am an unknown player. There are plenty of well-known and respected players whose opinion does matter, I leave the crusading and activism to them.