School shooting in CT on 14-12-2012

[Ezee]

I get pretty angry but not that angry. Did the report say he had anything else?

[Ginger_Warrior]

There is some interplay between emotional volatility and learning disabilities. It's not reasonable to assume he did this because he had Aspergers, though, however convenient it might be to do so. It could be a whole host of other things.

 

He wasn't "Aspergers". He was a person with Aspergers. Please respect the difference between those two attitudes.

[Z_Berenice]

I think he was suggesting that Aspergers -> difficulty socializing -> frustration/anger -> shooting

A bit of this. But more of a trait; I know a couple of people with aspergers, and they often "overdress" for an ocassion, figuratively speaking. That being said, why would he carry such heavy equipment just to kill children... see where I'm going to? Like, it's not realistic.

 

Edit: for the record, I'm just talking about the shooter in particular.

[Noxx]

We aren't at war with pakistan though and I specified paki children. And yes I'm familiar with Dunbar's number which is why I specified not knowing the victims personally.

 

My critique of peoples reactions is just like I said in my first post on this topic, people care more about people in their own country more then others and this is a negative affect that statism (read: nationalism) has on us.

Rofl. I couldn't help but laugh really hard at this. You say, and i quote "Paki children"

On the one hand you're saying people find their death less valuable and right away in your next response you use a word that offends them more than any other.

It's Pakistani, please.

 

Anyway, i really find this tragic. Like Gabe said, i don't know how any person can look at a small child and shoot them. It's sickening to think that people like that exist.

 

I doubt i have ever seen something like this happen in my own country, so i can't fully understand what Americans might feel about this. But it is still very tragic to me.

[Guest Rob]

I don't see why arguing gun control after an event like this is a bad thing, provided the goal of the discussion is to prevent further incidents like this from happening.

It's a tragedy, yes, and saying that we shouldn't even discuss changing our policies because it's insensitive is far from the truth and, in my opinion, a little bit counterproductive.

[Ember]

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[Z_Berenice]

Also, I'm pretty sure none of the weapons he used were legal in ct, I might be wrong, but I think only handguns are *completely* legal in ct, correct me otherwise.

The reports I saw said two handguns and a rifle, and I haven't seen anything to indicate that any of the weapons were prohibited.

 

Handguns are not the only legal firearms in CT.

Ahhh thank you! Wasn't really sure, just what I've heard about ct gun laws.

[Serpent Eye]

Thoughts are with the victims and their families. :(

 

On Tuesday there was a shooting at a mall in my state (Oregon) that resulted in three deaths (including the shooter), and now this just a couple days after. :/

[moultonlava]

Tonight the American Nation's thoughts and prayers are with the friends and families of all those affected by this tragedy in Connecticut.

 

It is hard to comprehend the sorrow that those people will deal with during this time that is normally spent in joy and celebration.

 

My heart goes out to all people affected by this and all other catastrophes in this nation and across the globe.

[Bxpprod]

I get pretty angry but not that angry. Did the report say he had anything else?

 

The way your ASD manifests itself isn't indicative of how it will for someone else. Working in the industry, I have seen some [extremely] violent individuals, others not so much. Some towards themselves, some towards anything and everything.

 

It should not be said though that this is the only factor. Events like these don't just happen, there are plenty of factors at play, and we may never know exactly what caused it.

[Ginger_Warrior]

The violence and anger towards his mother in particular isn't indicative of autism. It was maybe a factor in how he decided to handle those emotions, but people with Asperger don't just turn angry for no reason. There's still a trigger behind it, just like there is for the rest of us.

 

One thing that's really struck me is how different the reaction in America has been to previous tragedies. There's already been two shooting sprees in the US in 2012 and neither of them evoked the same kind of

. It might be because children were involved, it might also be because it happened in a state not particularly renowned for gun violence or gun ownership, but there seems to be more substance behind the calls for change this time.

 

Of course, the final nail in the coffin for handgun ownership in the UK was the Dunblane massacre, and this incident holds many similarities.

[Alg]

I don't see why arguing gun control after an event like this is a bad thing, provided the goal of the discussion is to prevent further incidents like this from happening.

It's a tragedy, yes, and saying that we shouldn't even discuss changing our policies because it's insensitive is far from the truth and, in my opinion, a little bit counterproductive.

It's more of a safeguard than anything. It's possible to have a reasonable, constructive policy debate after a tragedy, but it's considerably more likely for the arguments themselves to be insensitive (and more).

[obfuscator]

I don't see why arguing gun control after an event like this is a bad thing, provided the goal of the discussion is to prevent further incidents like this from happening.

It's a tragedy, yes, and saying that we shouldn't even discuss changing our policies because it's insensitive is far from the truth and, in my opinion, a little bit counterproductive.

It's more of a safeguard than anything. It's possible to have a reasonable, constructive policy debate after a tragedy, but it's considerably more likely for the arguments themselves to be insensitive (and more).

 

Agreed completely. Take, for example, this blog post yesterday.

 

It's an emotional plea to government representatives to do something about these events. It follows with four suggestions. Three I won't touch on, but this one struck me immediately when I read it yesterday:

 

3. Re-evaluate and potentially reverse concealed weapons laws, especially those that allow anyone to carry a concealed weapon into a school, church, or other public building. While I respect the right to own firearms, I do NOT want those firearms anywhere near my children's school.

 

This is simply an emotional reaction to a problem that requires logical analysis. This suggestion is not logical, in fact it is fundamentally illogical. But this is the kind of thing that tugs at people's heartstrings so soon after a tragic event like this happens. That's why taking time to let the emotions subside is so important - because it allows you to avoid making illogical decisions based only off of emotional reactions.

[Kaida23]

Isn't carrying a concealed weapon illegal, with the exception of law enforcement officials, in public buildings like schools anyway?

[obfuscator]

Isn't carrying a concealed weapon illegal, with the exception of law enforcement officials, in public buildings like schools anyway?

 

No idea. But my issue with that argument is that someone who has decided to shoot up a school doesn't care about breaking a "no concealed weapon" law.

[Ember]

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[Ginger_Warrior]

I feel the issue of concealment is academic in this case. Regardless of where you stand on the use of firearms to protect one's life and property, there is absolutely no logical or reasonable basis for a civilian during peacetime to be in possession of a semi-automatic rifle along with two other firearms. Not least because this mother was the main carer for a young man who, we're beginning to understand, had a particularly debilitating case of Asperger syndrome.

[muggiwhplar]

I think this sort of thing is, unfortunately, inevitable in modern society. People like to blame gun control, or mental health, or religion, or the media, etc., but at the end of the day, when you're on a planet with 7 billion people, stuff like this is going to happen regardless of what preventative measures you take. Yes, you can make legislative amendments to reduce the likelihood and frequency of such tragedies, however there's nothing you can do to prevent such tragedies from happening. And I think that's what really scares the shit out of some people-- that this kind of thing could happen at any time, to anyone, and there doesn't even have to be a reason for it. It's a lot easier to say "he did that because guns are so accessible!" or "he did that because he's suffering from a mental disorder!" than it is to say, "he did it... just because."

 

 

In other words, I think it's a lot easier to blame gun control, or mental health, or religion, or the media, than it is to accept that sometimes really bad things happen, for no reason, and there's absolutely nothing you can do to prevent it from happening to you or to the people you love. But that's not to say the things we blame can't still be changed to lower the likelihood of such things from happening again in the future...

 

Think about it. Do you really think we'll ever reach a point where things like this will never happen again? No. Regardless of how "rare" events like these are, people will always look for something to blame for it happening because they don't want to experience such a tragedy again.

[Randox]

At some level, I really don't think the law will make a difference. If you want a gun bad enough, you can find one, though I would qualify that a bit. I know that suicidal urges in most people are passing. Most people who are prevented, such as being talked down from the ledge, don't try again. Only a tiny fraction of people go on afterwards to actually kill themselves. I'm not sure how well this applies to homicide, though as many of these are murder suicides, perhaps that by simply having access difficult enough to delay someone by a day or two, they might change their mind. I really don't know. Someone should probably study that if they can figure out how you would get a sample population for it.

 

All that aside, not every country has this problem on a proportional level to their population. Even if you consider that larger dense populations might increase the effects of criminal activity at a greater than linear rate, it really doesn't seem to add up. I'm not sure exactly what it is, or how you change it, but this is not an issue entirely beyond control. Is it still going to happen? Of course it is. Does it have to happen this much? Other major industrialized nations no. Something is wrong, just wish we knew what it was.

[RpgGamer]

[sees_all1]

This is a tragedy. I can't imagine how I'd feel if I found out this happened to my 6 year old brother, and it makes me quite emotional to think what these families are going through.

 

I don't understand how someone with a conscious can inflict harm on children. What a monster.

 

I feel the issue of concealment is academic in this case.

(To anyone really) Make a thread on this in two months when (hopefully) we're not thinking about a tragedy and I'll debate you on the subject. I don't think it's an appropriate discussion at the moment.

[Ginger_Warrior]

Why? I'd argue it's more disrespectful to those who died not to debate the issues which surrounded their premature and needless deaths, opting instead to kick the issue into the long grass.

[stevepole]

Debating the issue now, villainizes those that are pro-guns, which isn't right imo.

[Will H]

Debating the issue now, villainizes those that are pro-guns, which isn't right imo.

It's more like that there's the chance of people using emotional arguments instead of logical ones.

 

I'll put out there that I think that federal law in relation to guns in the US is far too lax and I don't approve of the 2nd Amendment, but I've always believed that before this shooting happened. I won't elaborate until a few more days has passed, though.

[Tim]

Almost hurled a bit when I read the story on Friday.

 

Amongst the biggest things, people would argue "There was a lack of god in the school", "gun control is out of control", "people are training killers" etc etc. Though I do think America needs to REALLY look over gun controls, biggest thing they missed was mental illness. The 20yo bloke clearly needed help, and instead of getting help, his mom gives him a gun, and from my stand point, America (nay, most countries) are severely lacking help for people with mental illnesses.

 

Although what did annoy me was the usual "lack of god" preachers, to top it off, apparently the Westburo Baptist Church plan to picket the funeral. Seriously, 20 CHILDREN were murdered, 6 teachers who I would salute to for their bravery in protecting a generation of children and being a true teacher, and the WBC are up in arms about god.