If you say H/c x2 in game you will be muted. (Taken from Reddit)

[Fallstar]

Is frosty X 2 muteable?

 

No serious clan has done hot/cold for months, all this'll do is stop the random guys @ the ge who are obviously scammers. Unless they make frosty/fp muteable words, nothing will change.

 

Actually we have been doing H/C, FP, and ABC since we opened in November. So there are serious clans that do H/C. Don't call us scammers because the "big" world 2 clans are all frosty/fp.

 

No offence, your signature states "over 75 billion paid out" when WAD has had that much pass through our fc in a single day, when for instance the owner of Legit One bet (and lost) his bank on our hosts. Not that this is really a good thing, just that as I said, the big clans don't do H/C as the odds in H/C are better for the bettor than frosty. Not calling you scammers, just saying that h/c games aren't the real problem, and that if Jagex is serious about tacking the issue they should also deal with ff and fp, especially as fp is by far the most popular game.

 

As for the morality of it, I don't play video games to show people what a fair and all round good person I am. I play them to relax and have fun.

 

RS, and any other MMO, are just video games. As far as I see it, choosing to host was simply me choosing the most efficient money making method at the time. Once I had the base bank value that the average gp/hr staking was higher than that hosting, I stopped paying my weeklies and haven't hosted a single bet since then. That's all it is - an efficient money making method that, at the time I did it, was just as within the rules as camping Nex was.

 

Whilst Dragon Dyce were purchasing PMods to mute us, I would email billing support and explain the situation, and every time I did so I received an apology and the mute was reverted. Jagex quite clearly didn't have an issue with hosting at the time, or else why wouldn't the JMods have let the mutes stand?

 

RWT is an entirely separate issue. As I have stated before, players selling gold acquired through hosting and staking make up only a minority of the RWT market. Not even mentioning the fact that floor sellers and PVM'rs are just as prone to such activities.

[jayc3399]

Well it will be changed soon enough anyways, so people can be happy that they can continue to be coddled and have their hands held to the point of needing to take absolutely no responsibility. If you prefer that, that's fine really, everyone has a right to like what they want, I just think that taking all responsibility out of the people performing the actions is the wrong approach. When you gamble in real life casinos and develop a gambling addiction, you don't see the casinos getting in trouble with the law and being outlawed, just because people can't take their own responsibility. Though I guess we do live in a society that never wants to take responsibility for their own actions anymore, so it may be more appropriate than I think.

 

You have to be 18 to gamble in a casino. Also, gambling companies are about the most regulated industry in existence, with every single aspect heavily regulated to deter crime and protect the gambler against shady casinos. In the United States, running an unlicensed gambling ring is a federal offense.

 

 

And they still don't hold casinos responsible for gamblers decisions. Also, saying in the USA running unlicensed gambling ring is a federal offense is fine, but tell me where running one in RS is against the RS laws? The point is, until this is made an in game rule (which it currently is not), then it is moot.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong in regards to the laws IRL, but comparing the game to IRL laws can't really be used.

 

It's against the law to kill people, but this is done in the game on a regular basis (along with all the various forms of violent actions).

It's against the law to fish without a permit / cut trees down without permits.

It's against the law to gamble without a license, yet people can in RS have been doing it since the introduction of RS with staking, and more recent, flower poker.

It's against the law to sell weapons to others, especially minors, yet you can sell these to other people in RS.

 

You want to compare to RL, how about the fact that gambling destroys lives in RL, same as it destroys the game in RS.

[PolarBearBlue]

[hide]

Well it will be changed soon enough anyways, so people can be happy that they can continue to be coddled and have their hands held to the point of needing to take absolutely no responsibility. If you prefer that, that's fine really, everyone has a right to like what they want, I just think that taking all responsibility out of the people performing the actions is the wrong approach. When you gamble in real life casinos and develop a gambling addiction, you don't see the casinos getting in trouble with the law and being outlawed, just because people can't take their own responsibility. Though I guess we do live in a society that never wants to take responsibility for their own actions anymore, so it may be more appropriate than I think.

 

You have to be 18 to gamble in a casino. Also, gambling companies are about the most regulated industry in existence, with every single aspect heavily regulated to deter crime and protect the gambler against shady casinos. In the United States, running an unlicensed gambling ring is a federal offense.

 

 

And they still don't hold casinos responsible for gamblers decisions. Also, saying in the USA running unlicensed gambling ring is a federal offense is fine, but tell me where running one in RS is against the RS laws? The point is, until this is made an in game rule (which it currently is not), then it is moot.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong in regards to the laws IRL, but comparing the game to IRL laws can't really be used.

 

It's against the law to kill people, but this is done in the game on a regular basis (along with all the various forms of violent actions).

It's against the law to fish without a permit / cut trees down without permits.

It's against the law to gamble without a license, yet people can in RS have been doing it since the introduction of RS with staking, and more recent, flower poker.

It's against the law to sell weapons to others, especially minors, yet you can sell these to other people in RS.

 

 

You want to compare to RL, how about the fact that people with gambling addictions destroys their lives and possibly their loved ones lives in RL, same as it destroys the integrity of the game in RS.

[/hide]

 

Fixed. You were kinda generalizing there.

[Reliable]

Well it will be changed soon enough anyways, so people can be happy that they can continue to be coddled and have their hands held to the point of needing to take absolutely no responsibility. If you prefer that, that's fine really, everyone has a right to like what they want, I just think that taking all responsibility out of the people performing the actions is the wrong approach. When you gamble in real life casinos and develop a gambling addiction, you don't see the casinos getting in trouble with the law and being outlawed, just because people can't take their own responsibility. Though I guess we do live in a society that never wants to take responsibility for their own actions anymore, so it may be more appropriate than I think.

 

You have to be 18 to gamble in a casino. Also, gambling companies are about the most regulated industry in existence, with every single aspect heavily regulated to deter crime and protect the gambler against shady casinos. In the United States, running an unlicensed gambling ring is a federal offense.

 

 

And they still don't hold casinos responsible for gamblers decisions. Also, saying in the USA running unlicensed gambling ring is a federal offense is fine, but tell me where running one in RS is against the RS laws? The point is, until this is made an in game rule (which it currently is not), then it is moot.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong in regards to the laws IRL, but comparing the game to IRL laws can't really be used.

 

It's against the law to kill people, but this is done in the game on a regular basis (along with all the various forms of violent actions).

It's against the law to fish without a permit / cut trees down without permits.

It's against the law to gamble without a license, yet people can in RS have been doing it since the introduction of RS with staking, and more recent, flower poker.

It's against the law to sell weapons to others, especially minors, yet you can sell these to other people in RS.

 

You want to compare to RL, how about the fact that gambling destroys lives in RL, same as it destroys the game in RS.

 

Actually, I'm saying you CAN'T compare IRL to a game.

 

But to entertain your point, gambling destroys the lives associated with the gambler. My life isn't destroyed by Jack Schmidt losing his house to a casino, just like my gaming experience is absolutely no different when Zezima29423 loses his bank to a flower host.

 

EDIT: I'm pretty sure if a flower host on Runescape went to federal court based on him gambling fake money (regardless of the fact it can be sold), they'd laugh it out of court. But hey who knows, maybe federal prisons are full of people who broke irl laws over video games. I just hope I don't have to face a judge over my mass murder of innocent civilians on GTA. I better get rid of all my evidence now.

[jayc3399]

Well it will be changed soon enough anyways, so people can be happy that they can continue to be coddled and have their hands held to the point of needing to take absolutely no responsibility. If you prefer that, that's fine really, everyone has a right to like what they want, I just think that taking all responsibility out of the people performing the actions is the wrong approach. When you gamble in real life casinos and develop a gambling addiction, you don't see the casinos getting in trouble with the law and being outlawed, just because people can't take their own responsibility. Though I guess we do live in a society that never wants to take responsibility for their own actions anymore, so it may be more appropriate than I think.

 

You have to be 18 to gamble in a casino. Also, gambling companies are about the most regulated industry in existence, with every single aspect heavily regulated to deter crime and protect the gambler against shady casinos. In the United States, running an unlicensed gambling ring is a federal offense.

 

 

And they still don't hold casinos responsible for gamblers decisions. Also, saying in the USA running unlicensed gambling ring is a federal offense is fine, but tell me where running one in RS is against the RS laws? The point is, until this is made an in game rule (which it currently is not), then it is moot.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong in regards to the laws IRL, but comparing the game to IRL laws can't really be used.

 

It's against the law to kill people, but this is done in the game on a regular basis (along with all the various forms of violent actions).

It's against the law to fish without a permit / cut trees down without permits.

It's against the law to gamble without a license, yet people can in RS have been doing it since the introduction of RS with staking, and more recent, flower poker.

It's against the law to sell weapons to others, especially minors, yet you can sell these to other people in RS.

 

You want to compare to RL, how about the fact that gambling destroys lives in RL, same as it destroys the game in RS.

 

Actually, I'm saying you CAN'T compare IRL to a game.

 

But to entertain your point, gambling destroys the lives associated with the gambler. My life isn't destroyed by Jack Schmidt losing his house to a casino, just like my gaming experience is absolutely no different when Zezima29423 loses his bank to a flower host.

 

Aside from the fact that as a society we are stuck paying unemployment premiums and socialist garbage like that to support the useless people of the world.

[stonewall337]

Can it be true? 10/10 jagex, keep it up. Scamming is scamming, and while some people like Vann might be legit, gambling as a whole in rs is just damaging the community.

 

Outside the obvious scamming people, I don't see why it's bad.

[Reliable]

And considering people can scam by selling gear to others, then that shouldn't be allowed either. Since hosts don't always scam (I'd believe the majority of them don't to be honest), and not all gear sellers scam, I believe we should just bring back the trade limit then, because if people can scam, it's not worth playing.

[Tansuo]

HOWEVER, this is NOT really Jagex taking it seriously, just Jagex passing on some of the responsibly to player mods (and no longer revoking mutes/black marks for gambling mutes which previously happened).

 

Incorrect. This is clearly them actually doing something about the issue, and its not Pmods doing it. They've clearly had enough of the likes of Fishy and other dicing hosts pissing all over them, thinking they can do whatever they like without fear of the repurcussions. Now there are some, they're whining. Yes they should have stated that they were going to do the mutes, Yes I do think it was unfair upon Vann and such to be muted without warning, but I believe it is perfectly justifiable.

 

To begin to stamp down on something that has ruined the game for so many, torn the economy apart and given rise to rwt like never before, and an unbelievable level of ignorance and ego, should be praised.

 

tl;dr Kudos to Jagex for doing something about gambling.

[Vann]

Logged on to do my spins from last night (went to the bar rather than playing) and said "H/C x2" in my own fc with no one around. Logged out and in and was muted. Did this on 3 throwaway accounts and all were instantly muted. As pissed off as I am about being muted with no announcement or warning, it's starting to make me laugh that Jagex is muting paying member accounts for something not against the rules at a time when they are doing anything they can to Keep members.

[Estoc]

Anyone want to tackle the issue of why gambling should be in Runescape? People have made their case against it, but I have yet to see any real reason it should exist besides making a select few filthy rich and "satisfying players who crave high risk". Does that really justify all the spam, the very possible scams and an extremely profitable method of RWT?

[PolarBearBlue]

Logged on to do my spins from last night (went to the bar rather than playing) and said "H/C x2" in my own fc with no one around. Logged out and in and was muted. Did this on 3 throwaway accounts and all were instantly muted. As pissed off as I am about being muted with no announcement or warning, it's starting to make me laugh that Jagex is muting paying member accounts for something not against the rules at a time when they are doing anything they can to Keep members.

 

The fact that your three "throwaway" accounts are being muted means that it is against the rules. Not saying it's fair but you are adding oil to a burning fire...

[Tansuo]

it's starting to make me laugh that Jagex is muting paying member accounts for something not against the rules at a time when they are doing anything they can to Keep members.

 

You really have such a dreadful attitude against those who make the game that you play, who have allowed you to amass a stupidly large bank on their game and allow you to enjoy it.

Seriously, grow up and stop being such a jerk. This kind of rant is utterly pathetic, in whatever circumstance it comes about. Whether it's against EoC, 2007scape or gambling, just drop it. At the end of the day, Jagex is a company looking to profit. If you have a problem with how they want to make money, to keep the damn game that you're playing running, then go elsewhere and play something else.

[jayc3399]

Anyone want to tackle the issue of why gambling should be in Runescape? People have made their case against it, but I have yet to see any real reason it should exist besides making a select few filthy rich and "satisfying players who crave high risk". Does that really justify all the spam, the very possible scams and an extremely profitable method of RWT?

 

I justified it earlier, an ingame casino could be used as a money sink, otherwise there is zero reason for player managed gambling in game.

[Fallstar]

HOWEVER, this is NOT really Jagex taking it seriously, just Jagex passing on some of the responsibly to player mods (and no longer revoking mutes/black marks for gambling mutes which previously happened).

 

Incorrect. This is clearly them actually doing something about the issue, and its not Pmods doing it. They've clearly had enough of the likes of Fishy and other dicing hosts pissing all over them, thinking they can do whatever they like without fear of the repurcussions. Now there are some, they're whining. Yes they should have stated that they were going to do the mutes, Yes I do think it was unfair upon Vann and such to be muted without warning, but I believe it is perfectly justifiable.

 

To begin to stamp down on something that has ruined the game for so many, torn the economy apart and given rise to rwt like never before, and an ubelievable level of ignorance and ego, should be praised.

 

tl;dr Kudos to Jagex for doing something about gambling.

 

First of all, bot farming accounts for the majority of RWT. Secondly, the players who RWT'd the most were the first proper stakers, before the introduction of PID, who were able to get ideal IP addresses to ensure priority. Win All Day made a relatively small amount from hosting ('only' about 150B from dicing and 100 from flowers) compared to what he did from staking.

 

Should the DA be removed as well then? If the RWT aspect of dicing is so bad, then why is the DA, which is considerably worse, and is a focus point for breaking real world laws with denial of service attacks, and even the occasional distributed attack, still allowed to remain in game?

 

Even as a method of earning gp, the DA is more unbalanced than hosting, especially since the advent of drygores. The player with PID in a drygore stake has a 5% higher chance of winning than the host did with frosty flowers.

 

So the DA is

1.) Responsible for more RWT than dicing.

2.) Responsible for far more serious forms of RL law breaking than dicing.

3.) Responsible for even more unbalanced methods of earning GP than dicing.

 

Even though it'd be against my personal interests to remove the DA, it really is the greater of the two evils.

[Tansuo]

[hide=]

HOWEVER, this is NOT really Jagex taking it seriously, just Jagex passing on some of the responsibly to player mods (and no longer revoking mutes/black marks for gambling mutes which previously happened).

 

Incorrect. This is clearly them actually doing something about the issue, and its not Pmods doing it. They've clearly had enough of the likes of Fishy and other dicing hosts pissing all over them, thinking they can do whatever they like without fear of the repurcussions. Now there are some, they're whining. Yes they should have stated that they were going to do the mutes, Yes I do think it was unfair upon Vann and such to be muted without warning, but I believe it is perfectly justifiable.

 

To begin to stamp down on something that has ruined the game for so many, torn the economy apart and given rise to rwt like never before, and an ubelievable level of ignorance and ego, should be praised.

 

tl;dr Kudos to Jagex for doing something about gambling.

 

First of all, bot farming accounts for the majority of RWT. Secondly, the players who RWT'd the most were the first proper stakers, before the introduction of PID, who were able to get ideal IP addresses to ensure priority. Win All Day made a relatively small amount from hosting ('only' about 150B from dicing and 100 from flowers) compared to what he did from staking.

 

Should the DA be removed as well then? If the RWT aspect of dicing is so bad, then why is the DA, which is considerably worse, and is a focus point for breaking real world laws with denial of service attacks, and even the occasional distributed attack, still allowed to remain in game?

 

Even as a method of earning gp, the DA is more unbalanced than hosting, especially since the advent of drygores. The player with PID in a drygore stake has a 5% higher chance of winning than the host did with frosty flowers.

 

So the DA is

1.) Responsible for more RWT than dicing.

2.) Responsible for far more serious forms of RL law breaking than dicing.

3.) Responsible for even more unbalanced methods of earning GP than dicing.

[/hide]

Even though it'd be against my personal interests to remove the DA, it really is the greater of the two evils.

 

Yes agreed, the DA is also a huge problem, but I don't think that's as bad now as it was pre EoC (correct me if I'm wrong).

That said, one step at a time. Sort out this flower gambling shit, then move onto the DA.

[PolarBearBlue]

Anyone want to tackle the issue of why gambling should be in Runescape? People have made their case against it, but I have yet to see any real reason it should exist besides making a select few filthy rich and "satisfying players who crave high risk". Does that really justify all the spam, the very possible scams and an extremely profitable method of RWT?

 

I'll try. The alcohol prohibition in the US gave rise to a black market where sellers enjoyed monopolistic profits by engaging in an illegal activity. This also increased violence and help in the innovation of drinks such as the cocktail until it was repealed. Famous Economist Milton Friedman identifies the War on Drug as the same thing, and contributes the Crack Epidemic as a response the governments lock down on illegal substance. He states that crack would have never occurred had the government not banned weed. Speaking from a purely economic standpoint, prohibition is not a means to an end.

 

Obviously, these two point aren't as serious as gambling in RS, but what I propose is that Jagex allows it but in the same way alcohol is. Make it legal but within a settling they can control, or as mentioned in this tread on occasions, as a money sink. Clearly the market for it exist despite the overwhelming negative response on this tread. Turn part of that game room and "tax" gambling in RS with in-game currency. Provide a better alternative the H/C chats that sit in the GE to force those people out of the market as sellers.

[Vann]

@Polar- they have it set to auto mute just like when you say rswalmart. I do think they should announce it

 

@Tansuo- I have enjoyed this game for years and still enjoy 07scape. EoC isn't bad for skilling (quick drop and such) but I'm not a fan of the combat. Typically use momentum when slaying or anything. The fact that they are tryin to keep paying customers but do hidden updates like this that ruin some players game experience is shocking to me. All they had to do was announce it and I would never have opened my mouth or ranted.

 

Where this hidden update does improve some players experience. It is ruining a decent percentage of players in game experience and Jagex should address it in a public forum, not keep it hush hush on a mod forum or not announce it at all.

 

Until they announce/address this I will complain because it is unfair to mute for not breaking a rule. I have nothing against RuneScape or Jagex, just upset with their actions the past 72 hours.

[Sorator]

In which case gambling in RS is a federal crime.

 

GP has a real easily transferable value, saying its not real money so doesn't count, is like gambling ipads and saying they don't count, or more relevantly something like bitcoins.

No. GP does not have a clear real-world monetary value, because everyone who sells it is committing fraud by selling something that does not belong to them - the game, and all within it, are property of Jagex if you read the terms of service closely enough. (And even if that weren't the case, it'd be tricky to enforce it because it's online, based in the UK, not in the US.)

 

Logged on to do my spins from last night (went to the bar rather than playing) and said "H/C x2" in my own fc with no one around. Logged out and in and was muted. Did this on 3 throwaway accounts and all were instantly muted. As pissed off as I am about being muted with no announcement or warning, it's starting to make me laugh that Jagex is muting paying member accounts for something not against the rules at a time when they are doing anything they can to Keep members.

So maybe you should consider the constant mutes a statement that it is against the rules? It seems pretty clear, to me. And again, I don't think you have grounds to be that pissed off about being temp muted, because that's a pretty clear and strong warning to stop what you're doing, after having already gotten the general warnings they've done over time (the change to the toy horse lines, removal/reworking of several past gambling methods, and the announcements on the subject).

[Vann]

Everyone saying "Obviously it's against the rules so get the message"... It is NOT. If you can show me ANYWHERE in the rules/rswiki/ToS that it is against the rules I will pay you 100M. Stop saying it is when you have no proof.

[Tansuo]

The fact that they are trying to keep paying customers but do hidden updates like this that ruin some players game experience is shocking to me.

 

Sorry but Rs2007? Has that not brought back thousands of players? Are they not bring back plenty of customers? Willing to bet that the return of customers due to Rs2007 will certainly outweigh those that will 'quit' in protest over this update.

 

Where this hidden update does improve some players experience. It is ruining a decent percentage of players in game experience and Jagex should address it in a public forum, not keep it hush hush on a mod forum or not announce it at all.

 

It improves more than some players experiences. As you can read on this thread alone, the majority of people are welcoming the actions. They might not necessarily agree with it being publicised prior, but they welcome it none the less. The only people whose experience it is ruining is those of the dicing hosts - they are certainly in the minority.

 

Until they announce/address this I will complain because it is unfair to mute for not breaking a rule. I have nothing against RuneScape or Jagex, just upset with their actions the past 72 hours.

 

Perfectly fair enough. I understand your stance here fine - I'd do the same where Jagex muting/banning me had (for example) they silently decided that anyone swearing in game was to be muted. But I do agree with what they have ultimately done, despite their way of doing it.

 

All they had to do was announce it and I would never have opened my mouth or ranted.

 

Come off it.

[Sorator]

Everyone saying "Obviously it's against the rules so get the message"... It is NOT. If you can show me ANYWHERE in the rules/rswiki/ToS that it is against the rules I will pay you 100M. Stop saying it is when you have no proof.

 

I have the proof of people being instantly muted for typing a phrase associated with nothing other than gambling. Seems strong enough to me. *shrug*

 

It wouldn't surprise me if they included as a form of scamming.

[PolarBearBlue]

@Polar- they have it set to auto mute just like when you say rswalmart. I do think they should announce it

 

For that you are correct. They should have announced it. However, news travels fast, and in our ever increasing technical society we hear about thing on Facebook, etc. before it even hits the news. You know know better, and I'm pretty sure Jagex knows word got out faster than they can tell you. Now that you KNOW better one should DO better. When my mother is upset at me, she doesn't say it all the time. She shows me by her tone and actions. Jagex is showing you.

 

I do agree it is poor policy on their account and sloppy, at the same time you can't continue to use this excuse because you been muted 4 time now, and your son once. You now know.

[Alg]

Even though it'd be against my personal interests to remove the DA, it really is the greater of the two evils.

Out of curiosity, do you have the numbers for buyers? I'm remembering a time in mid-2007 where the mod team went after RWT'ers, and we'd watch players in the generic staker gear of the day pick up their gold and hop straight to world 6. I'm wondering if today's would-be gamblers recover from their losses by buying gold (Even on a higher scale - regardless of what Vann might argue, high level players break the rules quite regularly).

[Vann]

Even though it'd be against my personal interests to remove the DA, it really is the greater of the two evils.

Out of curiosity, do you have the numbers for buyers? I'm remembering a time in mid-2007 where the mod team went after RWT'ers, and we'd watch players in the generic staker gear of the day pick up their gold and hop straight to world 6. I'm wondering if today's would-be gamblers recover from their losses by buying gold (Even on a higher scale - regardless of what Vann might argue, high level players break the rules quite regularly).

 

Some gamblers may buy gold to recover from losses, but if I take a big hit and don't have liquid funds to continue hosting I will get a loan from friends within the gambling community and pay it back with interest. Now that's from a hosts stand point.

 

I'm sure some bettors buy gold to continue betting, but that's no different than buying gold for staking or gear for pking.

[Alg]

I'm sure some bettors buy gold to continue betting, but that's no different than buying gold for staking or gear for pking.

That's exactly why i quoted Fallstar's DA-centric post.