I figure this is as good a place as any. How does everyone feel about intoxication and consent?

 

This is you reading this thread after asking that question and then not participating in the discussion :P

 

So, let's clarify this. Your position is that if I get drunk now, I've consented, in foresight, to any decision I make in the next few hours while under the influence of alcohol, even when I'm so drunk that cannot stand or speak properly?

Fault, or blame, is almost never black and white. That's one of the most important things you learn in history class: most events are caused by a series of things or multiple people, all of whom had some effect on the situation.

 

I'm not saying someone deserves to be raped. No one deserves to be raped. But if a person chooses to get blindly drunk in a less than ideal situation, they are in part responsible for what happens to them.

So, let's clarify this. Your position is that if I get drunk now, I've consented, in foresight, to any decision I make in the next few hours while under the influence of alcohol, even when I'm so drunk that cannot stand or speak properly?

 

I'm not talking about consent; I'm talking about responsibility. If you get drunk now and choose to go do something stupid, I won't logically feel sorry for whatever consequences you suffer because such situations could've likely been avoided if you were a responsible adult. I'll still feel sorry for you emotionally and be your shoulder to cry on assuming something terrible happens, though. :D

 

Fault, or blame, is almost never black and white. That's one of the most important things you learn in history class: most events are caused by a series of things or multiple people, all of whom had some effect on the situation.

 

I'm not saying someone deserves to be raped. No one deserves to be raped. But if a person chooses to get blindly drunk in a less than ideal situation, they are in part responsible for what happens to them.

 

Exactly.

If you are passed out cold on the floor unable to respond, that is rape. If you are hammered and say "yes" when he asks to have sex with you, then you gave content right there. It goes the same for guys and girls. If you say "no" when you are drunk and he does it anyway, that is rape.

In the eyes of the law, someone who is intoxicated is not legally capable of giving consent. This is because alchohol impairs your judgement, leading to decisions you would not normally make. The law expects people to recognize that someone may not be capable of giving legal consent. It's no different than her telling you she is 16 when she is 13. Doesn't matter what she says, she can't legally give consent, and it's on you to realize that she is lying.

 

As far as morality goes...I am down with not feeling too sorry for people who put themselves in situations and obvious things happen. That comes back to responsibility. But one bad decision does not absolve other people of their actions.

 

But at the end of day, I think how any of us feels about the issue means jack, because the law is on her side, and if you take consent where you know she's had a drink, they you understand that she can call rape if she likes. There is plenty of room for being terrible on both sides of the gender divide, and this is why I know any university in Canada (I assume the law is pretty similar on this in the States) tries to hammer this into everyone's brains, because many many people are going to put themselves in a position where a girl has the legal ability to absolutely destroy their lives if she wants to.

Meanwhile I poured a beer in the plant pot next to my bed and it yelled rape.

I've been running from the cops for days.

I've split this discussion off of the relationship thread since it's expanded more into a hypothetical discussion rather than a direct concern in a particular relationship.

 

Happy posting. :)

That'd be funny if the next post in this thread was Omar asking for relationship advice.

Gotta love the two sided coinness of intoxication when it comes to determining who is the victim...

 

In case of rape, drunkenness seem to be an extremely convenient excuse, but if your car got hit by another (and despite irrefutable evidence that you have in no way contributed to the accident), somehow if you were detected having alcohol in your blood, there goes your innocence...

Here's a thinker.

 

IF a guy was intoxicated beyond a "consentable" point (slurring words, walking funny, etc etc blah blah) but had a hard on and a girl does him...is it rape? Or does it not count since it's a guy?

Here's a thinker.

 

IF a guy was intoxicated beyond a "consentable" point (slurring words, walking funny, etc etc blah blah) but had a hard on and a girl does him...is it rape? Or does it not count since it's a guy?

 

More like, should a guy be allowed to equip his beer goggles, bang a fat chick, and then accuse her of rape the next morning :P

Rule of thumb: when she's really drunk, unless she begs you, don't have sex with her.

 

This solves so many problems. First of all, you're being respectful to a woman who is probably much drunker than you are (women get more intoxicated than men, typically). Second, when you both wake up in the morning and she realizes you didn't take advantage of her state of mind, she is going to have much more respect for you as a person. Chances are that if you treat her with respect, you're likely to get further with her the next time.

 

As far as the legality of the situation, I think it's a dirty and awful trick for any person to say "I was drunk and unable to make decisions for myself, therefore you raped me." Obviously there are cases where someone was clearly passed out drunk that was rape--that's different. But from a guy's perspective, there is a lot you can do to keep yourself from being put in that position. Namely, what I listed above.

Best to just avoid one night stands and drunk hookups altogether IMO.

Now I wouldn't go that far 8-)

Best to just avoid one night stands and drunk hookups altogether IMO.

 

Agree completely.

 

@constrictor: of course it is. In fact I know of a guy who had something similar happen to him (he was passed out drunk and woke up to a woman on top of him...not sure of the gory details, but anyway).

Best to just avoid one night stands and drunk hookups altogether IMO.

 

Agree completely.

 

@constrictor: of course it is. In fact I know of a guy who had something similar happen to him (he was passed out drunk and woke up to a woman on top of him...not sure of the gory details, but anyway).

 

was she hot???

The better question was "did she have AIDS?"

I've personally never experience a situation where a person has been intoxication beyond the point of making their own decisions, but I generally avoid women that are drunker then I am. I also don't respect people who blame their actions on their drunkenness.

 

Generally when I think of consent though, I think of age. I've known a few people who have had to face legal actions because of a parent pressing legal actions.

Best to just avoid one night stands and drunk hookups altogether IMO.

 

Agree completely.

 

@constrictor: of course it is. In fact I know of a guy who had something similar happen to him (he was passed out drunk and woke up to a woman on top of him...not sure of the gory details, but anyway).

 

was she hot???

 

No, she was an (apparent) lesbian who looked like a dude.

I'll be the first to admit I've lived a pretty high-tempo lifestyle as far as partying goes over the last five years. I've seen my share of drunk hook-ups, but my rule was never take anyone home you didn't know before that night. I know a lot of people who are a lot more promiscuous than I ever was. There are two kinds of people: people that can handle their booze, and people that can't. The second kind are the ones who are in danger of doing really dumb shit when they're drunk, like making really poor sexual choices.

Make sure you're as drunk as they are before "taking advantage" of them. That way you'll never do something to someone that's passed out drunk, and you can't be blamed for "forcing" them to make bad decisions. </sarcasm>

I'm beginning to see why people wanted to ban alcohol outright. Saves everyone the headache of working out who's responsible for what when they're drunk.

 

(Obligatory joke tag)

Randox made a good point, who cares if its right or wrong, whether or not its "taking advantage of...", do not put yourself in a position where the other person has an extreme ability to [bleep] up your life.

 

This can apply to both sides imo (and should).

I'd have thought that point would be obvious.