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The degradation of Old School RS


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I was thinking earlier today, how long is old school RS actually going to last? I'm not talking about just the servers being on, but an actual thriving community. If you're a Runescape veteran and you look back you'll see that the community was much different. For example, old school is just an older version of the Runescape GAME, not the community. Therefore the community will have the same mindset as EoC which gives old school a much different feel. Runescape back in the day wasn't all about "Oh I have to rush this 99 and get my skillcape!", the community was a more laid back and friendly. I'm not trying to hate on old school, but that's a fact.

 

So what does that mean? Players will get bored. For the majority of RS veterans the nostalgia will ware off and we'll slowly lose interest, and other players will leave due to lack of updates. Most non-veterans don't know what old school was really like so they won't be able to fully appreciate it. Meanwhile EoC will continue to shell out large-flashy updates to their game, we OSRS players receive bugfixes, minor updates, and other small non-EoC exclusive updates. And at the same time now players who are discovering EoC (mostly out future generation and children now-a-days) will have no reason to play Old School.

 

The best option in my opinion would be to divide the games and community. For example, seperate the current RS and rename is to Evolution of Combat, rename oldschool rs to Runescape, and create a webset/forum for these games. Creating a "portal" to give users a better choice. These wouldn't be an easy task, but IMO it'd be one of their greatest moves. When players, including myself hear the word "oldschool" I tend not to think of it as a REAL game. It honestly just sounds like a private server, which it's not. If we want an active and thriving community there needs to be distance between the two games. Below are some examples on what could be done to help:

 

1. Create a "www.Jagex.com" where players can pick from a list of their games to play. Possibly combine it with FunOrb.

 

2. Have players use a universal email for all services to login.

 

3. Divide the friends lists between the two games or have people create a unique ID (such as Diablo's BattleTag) and use

that to communicate with friends.

 

4. Give each game their own forum, not their own sections of the same forum.

 

Those are just some quick suggestions off the top of my head, what do you guys think?

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I don't agree with renaming the current Runescape "Evolution of Combat"

 

"Hey dude, let's go play Evolution of Combat!" just sounds weird.

 

I just used that as an example. But people refer to it is as EoC already...

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I think these are decent ideas, I agree with your opinion though. I myself, being an 8 or 9 year veteran of RS, find OSRS to be a fun game, for now. The problem I see is that the market is actually gonna collapse on itself without rares actually being discontinued. All the collectible resources will become saturated and the price will drop, making money extremely hard to get and items to be extremely cheap, thus, driving away the player base. It's almost like Jagex wants the OSRS to go away quietly along with everybody who plays it. Interesting tactics, IMO.

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I don't agree with renaming the current Runescape "Evolution of Combat"

 

"Hey dude, let's go play Evolution of Combat!" just sounds weird.

 

I just used that as an example. But people refer to it is as EoC already...

 

EoC is just the name of the update for which makes it so different. They are still Runescape but of a different time. If we rename Old School Runescape to just Runescape it begs the question"what the do we call Classic?" The names I think are fine as it is: Classic Runescape, Old School Runescape, and EoC Runescape, or just Runescape. Each new iteration of this game should have that title of Runescape which each previous version taking a slightly different title. Somewhere down the line I expect 2k7 to become Classic, and current scape to be old school.

 

That said I agree with suggestion 1, 4 and to some extend #2. As far as separating friends list, I don't think they need to. Just allow clan and quick chat into 2k7. Dividing the community feels like they are forcing me to pick my friends. Just because he plays OSRS more than current and vice versa for me doesn't mean we should separate. It's easy to keep in touch on a friend bases, but what about a clan? I would much prefer the ability to communicate across the board, because while OSRS is suppose to be like 2007 that isn't gonna happen. 2007 is done. An example is rares. They mean something different now than when they came out, and you can't get that feeling again, because everyone now has an expectation of what it should be and want the good things that come with it.

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I don't agree with renaming the current Runescape "Evolution of Combat"

 

"Hey dude, let's go play Evolution of Combat!" just sounds weird.

 

I just used that as an example. But people refer to it is as EoC already...

 

EoC is just the name of the update for which makes it so different. They are still Runescape but of a different time. If we rename Old School Runescape to just Runescape it begs the question"what the do we call Classic?" The names I think are fine as it is: Classic Runescape, Old School Runescape, and EoC Runescape, or just Runescape. Each new iteration of this game should have that title of Runescape which each previous version taking a slightly different title. Somewhere down the line I expect 2k7 to become Classic, and current scape to be old school.

 

That said I agree with suggestion 1, 4 and to some extend #2. As far as separating friends list, I don't think they need to. Just allow clan and quick chat into 2k7. Dividing the community feels like they are forcing me to pick my friends. Just because he plays OSRS more than current and vice versa for me doesn't mean we should separate. It's easy to keep in touch on a friend bases, but what about a clan? I would much prefer the ability to communicate across the board, because while OSRS is suppose to be like 2007 that isn't gonna happen. 2007 is done. An example is rares. They mean something different now than when they came out, and you can't get that feeling again, because everyone now has an expectation of what it should be and want the good things that come with it.

 

I just don't see how you can call it runescape when it's changed soooo much. They removed special attacks! There's so much hate for EoC from old school players that you mine as well make it two separate games.

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It's still Runescape. You don't think Classic players hated RS2 when it was introduced? Yet that is the version of OSRS played that you fondly call RS. Honestly it just different iterations of one game. Yes there are some difference but it's still RS. Classic was just called RS at a time and so was 2k7. The same will happen to EoC. Jagex has a clear vision for how they want RS to evolve and we are playing it. Runespace isn't, and should'tn be, a static game. That is the problem I think old school players have. They can't accept change and don't like to accept the fact that it's okay to quit a game once it changes from something they believe is fundamentally different than what they remember/enjoy.

 

So yeah, I can call it Runescape because I can accept the fact Runecape will continue to change and evolve into a different type of game that makes us put titles like EoC and OSRS.

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I propose we call the modern game by the name of the last update. Who want's to go play "The Nexus" with me? Honestly though, the naming convention is fine as is - Runescape Classic, Old-School Runescape, and Runescape. Naming the entire game after one update just doesn't work in a game that includes weekly updates. Naming the three versions of the game on relative temporal differences makes more sense.

 

Another thought I have is, why do we need to keep OSRS from dying? While I didn't especially like that Jagex created OSRS, I did acknowledge that if people wanted to play it, it could work. The big problem I have is how much effort Jagex put into pushing it through artificially (lowering number requirements, offering free access in exchange for "yes" votes, etc). If OSRS is dying now, let it die. There's no sense in pushing so hard to keep it on life support.

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Keep RSC as "RuneScape", Old School as "RuneScape 2" and EoC-and-soon-to-be-RS3 as "RuneScape 3"

 

Besides, all of them say "RuneScape" on the title screen.

I'm thinking that when RS3 is released it will actually have the 3 on its title screen (otherwise they probably wouldn't have included it in the logo), so they could slightly edit the title of OSRS to include a 2 somewhere (hopefully as another "stone" thing, that would look nice.)

 

That way, they would be officially known by their actual names: RuneScape, RuneScape 2 and RuneScape 3.

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Keep RSC as "RuneScape", Old School as "RuneScape 2" and EoC-and-soon-to-be-RS3 as "RuneScape 3"

I agree with this, it'd make everything a lot simpler and less ambiguous (except maybe have RSC as “RuneScape 1” or just keep it as “RuneScape Classic”).

 

As for everyone rushing to get a 99 as mentioned in the OP, I can't help but think that part of that is everyone panicking over the uncertainty of OSRS's future (e.g. if the extra fee will be added in September or if the game's community will be dead soon), and wanting to get everything done that they can get done before it's too late. Whether or not these things will come to be, the uncertainty itself is having an impact on the playerbase.

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The naming convention is not important, and I don't think it the so called problem. The problem old school players have is that they feel OSRS is the legitimate game and the current iteration is just a spin off series like "Joey" was for "Friends", where it is really a reboot like the upcoming "Girl Meets World", a continuation of a season like when "The Walking Dead" has those mid season finales, or season 3 of another TV show.

 

The problem is also as Darth said, the future of OSRS. As fond as the game is and as fun as the simpler time is, it will follow the same path as Classic eventually. And such will EoC when RS4 comes (if it does). And OP is right, newer players who come into the game aren't gonna come for OSRS. But that's the plan, as I suspect for any gaming company. Newer things to entice newer players. But for now, as the OP has posted, I think some of those suggestions should help OSRS.

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The birth of the Evolution of Combat was the death of RuneScape. I, along with many other players, won't return to the live version of the game upon "quitting" Old School.

 

Yeah, this is number 57132 on the list of updates that was the death of Runescape.

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The birth of the Evolution of Combat was the death of RuneScape. I, along with many other players, won't return to the live version of the game upon "quitting" Old School.

 

Yeah, this is number 57132 on the list of updates that was the death of Runescape.

You mean 57133, you forgot the Runescape launch being the death of it too.

 

In all seriousness though - calling something the death of Runescape kinda immediately invalidates and undermines any point you may be trying to make because it has become something of a runescape meme used jokingly by some and others, who try to use it seriously, just sound like whiney can't-take-change idiots because people have been touting basically every update ever made to the game as its death right from 01 through to now, not to mention in recent years there is a great trend of the people who claim it often being shown up by the fact they have barely tried the new content and haven't even bothered trying to understand it. (Eg all the people calling eoc the death of rs when it was in beta and they didn't even have beta access, all the people calling rs3 the death of rs despite not having beta access, people calling every high level update the death of rs because they do not have the stats for it, people calling every low level update the death of rs because they have too high stats and it's not useful to them etc.)

 

If there's a lesson 101 to be learnt in debating Runescape it is: Never, under any circumstance, claim something killed or is the death of rs; it immediately invalidates any point you may have. The only exception to this rule is when Runescape does actually cease to be, at which point it will be post-humously viable to assert a specific change as the death knoll of the game.

 

But yeah by and large I agree with many sentiments on this thread, OSRS is the haunting ground of players unable to accept change and would rather march on blindly in a dated and awkward game in the name of nostalgia than move forward with the times. If it's gonna go the way of RSC and die, let it be, don't try to rebrand to make it the primary game just because you are in your nostalgia bubble and don't wanna move forward doesn't mean the rest of us should be dragged down with you. Don't get me wrong nostalgia can be good, I mean look at all the youtube gamer channels that play classic games to sizeable audiences and we all have thoose old movies and shows that are so dated now yet we still love them; but nostalgia should never take the place of the march forward and OSRS should never take the place of the live game as 'Runescape.'

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But yeah by and large I agree with many sentiments on this thread, OSRS is the haunting ground of players unable to accept change and would rather march on blindly in a dated and awkward game in the name of nostalgia than move forward with the times. If it's gonna go the way of RSC and die, let it be, don't try to rebrand to make it the primary game just because you are in your nostalgia bubble and don't wanna move forward doesn't mean the rest of us should be dragged down with you. Don't get me wrong nostalgia can be good, I mean look at all the youtube gamer channels that play classic games to sizeable audiences and we all have thoose old movies and shows that are so dated now yet we still love them; but nostalgia should never take the place of the march forward and OSRS should never take the place of the live game as 'Runescape.'

 

I'm going to reply to your massive irrational assumption with another irrational assumption...

 

Wanna know how I know you have little-to-no experience with PK'ing? :lol:

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But yeah by and large I agree with many sentiments on this thread, OSRS is the haunting ground of players unable to accept change and would rather march on blindly in a dated and awkward game in the name of nostalgia than move forward with the times. If it's gonna go the way of RSC and die, let it be, don't try to rebrand to make it the primary game just because you are in your nostalgia bubble and don't wanna move forward doesn't mean the rest of us should be dragged down with you. Don't get me wrong nostalgia can be good, I mean look at all the youtube gamer channels that play classic games to sizeable audiences and we all have thoose old movies and shows that are so dated now yet we still love them; but nostalgia should never take the place of the march forward and OSRS should never take the place of the live game as 'Runescape.'

 

But EoC is just so, so bad...

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I've gave EOC a few chances, I tried it in the trials, I tried it when it was released, and I tried this new hard mode GWD thing. (Not bad, but not good enough)

 

Pretty much the only 2 things I ever did before EOC was PK and kill bandos competitively (crash/anticrash). Both were utterly ruined.

 

I feel like the combat change was a real step down in enjoyability in the game, and other than the bosses the updates have been consistently awful since the "Wait, it's April 2nd, Squeal Of Fortune is surely a late April fools prank, right?" incident.

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A lot of the themes raised in this thread have also been attributed to the so-called "deaths" of other MMORPGs. I'm not sure if a lot of this criticism is about OSRS vs EoC RS specifically, or a trend that can translated generally to the genre, which when you look at the video gaming industry as a whole, is a weak genre, and getting weaker by the year. The loss of the "laid back, sociable" community can probably be explained by the recent rise of arcade-era gaming genres which are more casual-friendly, and are more able to provide the emotional experience those groups of people are wanting from a game.

 

If there's any part of RuneScape which was most to blame for driving those groups away from RuneScape, it was probably skillcapes and their consequent unrelenting focus on achievement-setting and goal-planning, not EoC. If you accept that, you accept that the damage was done many years ago (predating OSRS) and the current situation is more a scarring from actions taken back then. I know people (and I'd hardly describe them as 'efficienados') who quite casually talk about spending seven or eight hours per day grinding a skill to achieve 99 by a certain date. No matter how much you look at EoC, while that mentality exists across the whole community, you will never attract the kind of people who only want to play/can only play for one, two, maybe three hours a day, while taking things at a slow pace so they can be more sociable and laid back. Skillcapes, more than anything else, removed any notion that you could play RuneScape on a casual basis and still hope to progress at a pace relative to anyone else around you.

 

tl;dr -- The "death" of RuneScape's community is more likely due to competition from outside the MMORPG genre, and even if there is a problem with RuneScape driving people away, it's not likely to be EoC.

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But yeah by and large I agree with many sentiments on this thread, OSRS is the haunting ground of players unable to accept change and would rather march on blindly in a dated and awkward game in the name of nostalgia than move forward with the times. If it's gonna go the way of RSC and die, let it be, don't try to rebrand to make it the primary game just because you are in your nostalgia bubble and don't wanna move forward doesn't mean the rest of us should be dragged down with you. Don't get me wrong nostalgia can be good, I mean look at all the youtube gamer channels that play classic games to sizeable audiences and we all have thoose old movies and shows that are so dated now yet we still love them; but nostalgia should never take the place of the march forward and OSRS should never take the place of the live game as 'Runescape.'

But, on the other hand, just because a certain group of people like the EoC does not mean the rest of them should be dragged there too. There are plenty of valid reasons for disliking the EoC.

From what I understood from his post, he didn't want OSRS to become the "main" RuneScape in the place of EoC, just that it would become more than just a rarely updated side-game.

Basically running both servers side-by-side, each of them receiving updates just as the current main game does.

 

Although it is true that making updates to OSRS just like they are making updates to EoC RS would make many people mad, we have to keep in mind that a good part (don't know exactly how many, but they exist, and I think it is reasonable to assume they aren't a tiny minority) of the OSRS players didn't actually want an August 2007 server, all they wanted was a RuneScape where there was no EoC. In a perfect world, a player would be able to be given the choice between playing a RS with no EoC and playing one with the EoC.

 

(I feel like I probably didn't word this properly, so don't be afraid to ask for clarification.)

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EoC may not have been the update that drove me away from RS but it was the update that kept me from coming back (until OSRS). And yes I have tried EoC, didn't really like it, but to each his own.

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But yeah by and large I agree with many sentiments on this thread, OSRS is the haunting ground of players unable to accept change and would rather march on blindly in a dated and awkward game in the name of nostalgia than move forward with the times. If it's gonna go the way of RSC and die, let it be, don't try to rebrand to make it the primary game just because you are in your nostalgia bubble and don't wanna move forward doesn't mean the rest of us should be dragged down with you. Don't get me wrong nostalgia can be good, I mean look at all the youtube gamer channels that play classic games to sizeable audiences and we all have thoose old movies and shows that are so dated now yet we still love them; but nostalgia should never take the place of the march forward and OSRS should never take the place of the live game as 'Runescape.'

But, on the other hand, just because a certain group of people like the EoC does not mean the rest of them should be dragged there too. There are plenty of valid reasons for disliking the EoC.

From what I understood from his post, he didn't want OSRS to become the "main" RuneScape in the place of EoC, just that it would become more than just a rarely updated side-game.

Basically running both servers side-by-side, each of them receiving updates just as the current main game does.

 

Although it is true that making updates to OSRS just like they are making updates to EoC RS would make many people mad, we have to keep in mind that a good part (don't know exactly how many, but they exist, and I think it is reasonable to assume they aren't a tiny minority) of the OSRS players didn't actually want an August 2007 server, all they wanted was a RuneScape where there was no EoC. In a perfect world, a player would be able to be given the choice between playing a RS with no EoC and playing one with the EoC.

 

(I feel like I probably didn't word this properly, so don't be afraid to ask for clarification.)

The way I see it, creating '07 servers rather than just pre-EoC ModernScape servers was a smart move on Jagex's part. Had they just done that, much of the community would just switch to how RuneScape was right before EoC was released, and it all would have just been a big waste of effort. Being such a grand-scale update and one that is still new, it's bound to have a lot of drawbacks, but Jagex is fixing them bit by bit. With '07 Scape, Jagex is viably able to keep both games running because they are different enough on the fundamental level.

 

Personally, I don't even have anything against EoC. I simply enjoy Oldschool more and feel that it better captures the “spirit” of the game. I'm not the type of person to quit over a few updates.

 

But hey, to each their own.

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I split my time equally between all versions of the game, and quite frankly, each game has there own set of pros and cons. I've played RuneScape for a long time now and don't have a favorite game time period. I never was much of a combat guy, EoC made no difference to me. Spilling is becoming easier, which, in a way, makes the game easier and more enjoyable, but at the same time, degrades all the efforts I put into the game from 2004-2008, when the game began to start getting terribly dumbed down. Some of the updates make me sad/mad/disappointed, in a gaming sense of the word, but, if you really enjoy the game, one update won't keep you away from playing.

 

"Ignorance is strength." From 1984, by George Orwell, is a perfect quote for me in respect to the game. I know that, personally, I don't enjoy certain aspects of the game, therefore I stay away from them. No update to that aspect will ever make me interested. That's at least my personal logic behind sticking with EoC, while simultaneously playing OSRS, AND RSC.

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I feel like a lot of pkers think EOC is bad because they're inadequate. Granted, I'm sure a lot of them haven't tried it, but some have. Those who have given it a chance and still don't like it are probably just bad at using a more complex system. Before EOC, you could just click on another player, eat when low on hp, and switch to a ko weapon when they're low on hp. That requires almost no skill. A monkey could be trained to do it.

 

Now, in order to kill another player, you have to make sure you follow the combat triangle, use abilities at the correct time and in the correct order, and manage your health and prayer appropriately. Honestly, it's pretty tough. There's a lot of stuff to focus on and it requires a lot of knowledge. This is what pking should be like, and, really, any complaint about it is just because it's too hard.

 

I'll admit that there are some issues with the EOC. For example, there are only level 90 melee weapons, none for ranged or magic. They can almost tear through any armor, at least any armor cheap enough to be risked. They're cheap enough to be ubiquitous, though, so it's fair, at least. There are a few more quirks and unsatisfactory bits, but, honestly, they're not worth quitting over. There's a lot more wrong with 07 than there is with post-EOC RuneScape.

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I feel like a lot of pkers think EOC is bad because they're inadequate. Granted, I'm sure a lot of them haven't tried it, but some have. Those who have given it a chance and still don't like it are probably just bad at using a more complex system. Before EOC, you could just click on another player, eat when low on hp, and switch to a ko weapon when they're low on hp. That requires almost no skill. A monkey could be trained to do it.

 

Again, it sounds simple in theory, but it's really not. PvP requires more skill than any form of PvM could ever hope to achieve. Monsters are extremely predictable opponents. Other players, not so much.

 

Now, in order to kill another player, you have to make sure you follow the combat triangle, use abilities at the correct time and in the correct order, and manage your health and prayer appropriately. Honestly, it's pretty tough. There's a lot of stuff to focus on and it requires a lot of knowledge. This is what pking should be like, and, really, any complaint about it is just because it's too hard.

 

It's not that it's too hard/complex, it's that it's just not fun lol. Not to sound rude, but I'm still a little bit skeptical of your "credentials" when it comes to old school PvP criticism :P

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I feel like a lot of pkers think EOC is bad because they're inadequate. Granted, I'm sure a lot of them haven't tried it, but some have. Those who have given it a chance and still don't like it are probably just bad at using a more complex system. Before EOC, you could just click on another player, eat when low on hp, and switch to a ko weapon when they're low on hp. That requires almost no skill. A monkey could be trained to do it.

 

Now, in order to kill another player, you have to make sure you follow the combat triangle, use abilities at the correct time and in the correct order, and manage your health and prayer appropriately. Honestly, it's pretty tough. There's a lot of stuff to focus on and it requires a lot of knowledge. This is what pking should be like, and, really, any complaint about it is just because it's too hard.

I'm glad you brought up the combat triangle. While before EoC there wasn't exactly a "triangle", that doesn't mean you didn't adapt to what your opponent was using at the given time.

 

To have a good shot at downing your opponent, it was imperative that you bring at least two different styles or weapons. Your opponent is in ganodermic? Use ranged or a rapier. He puts on torag's instead? Use ice barrage, storm of armadyl, or what have you. Constantly switching between two styles. Even in F2P fights (what my clan does), a huge focus on switching styles and optimizing each style without forfeiting too much inventory space or defense. I.E. conscious decision: opponent is wearing green d'hide body, is it worth it to switch to melee? Should I use tome of frost and reduce my defense in robes from +100 to +50 in exchange for ~+15 more magic bonus, or will that get me KO'd before getting rune on? etc. Post-EoC, F2P fights were just "have X rangers, Y mages, and Z melee", now attack the enemy.

 

Not necessarily Melee>Ranged>Mage>Melee, but a much more complex and interesting possibilities (I.E. what do you do if your opponent is wearing a ganodermic top and bandos tassets?).

 

That's exactly the same as an EoC PvP fight if protection prayers are used. If overhead prayers aren't used in EoC, that doesn't exist (unless you count switching to melee for one hit to use Smash to knock down their protection prayer). You've probably heard at some point since the release of EoC that "hybriding is dead". And for people who fight without protection prayers, that is definitely true.

 

I'd even argue that there's less of a balance in EoC PvP. The accuracy penalties of wearing the wrong body or legs is trivial, especially when everybody is using lvl 80-90 weapons and lvl 60-70 armor, due to cost, because you can protect item on weapon, but if you lose a nex piece of armor it's devastating. Add to that you can already boost your other defenses without any accuracy penalty with your gloves, boots, and helm. You can use whatever weapon you want, no matter what armor you're wearing. I've done it, many times.

 

Add on to all of that the fact that the styles aren't completely balanced. Ranged with zaryte bow or royal crossbow is leaps and bounds ahead of any other style, because of Binding Shot and Rapid Fire used together. Melee primarily used for Smash if enemy is using protection prayers. Magic is only for teleblock if you can range and melee. And all you do to switch styles is switch your weapon and action bar. All styles have adequate "defense" against any other style by using Freedom and Anticipation.

 

In a nutshell, you used to switch armor + weapons according to what your enemy was using. Now you switch weapon and action bar according to what your enemy is protecting against. It's still the same amount of concentration and engagement in the combat, but it's a completely new way of going about combat. That's what people don't like. And you're right in that Old School has problems, too. Old School reeks of melee-based combat. Pre-EoC was much better at delivering engaging combat, which is one of the millions of reasons I preferred it, but players would rather settle for slow-paced combat than completely new combat.

 

 

 

Edit: I didn't touch on it, and I probably should have, but switching styles constantly in non-EoC requires many accurate clicks, where EoC abilities do not. Accurate and quick clicking indeed is "skill". Rather than having to go to the spellbook, click on Bind or Ice Barrage or whatever, and then click on the enemy all within a split second, you can instead just press a button your finger is already on to do the whole thing. I don't know if that's a good explanation, but I'm putting it out there as a dynamic.

Edited by Vigilant Foe
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