Behind the Scenes: June 2013

[Quest_Cape_K]

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I really, really, really hate when Jagex upgrades low level content because they don't want their pet updates to die. Instead of updating barrows, we could release a new dungeon that gives level 90 armor. We don't need to ruin content for low levels in the process.

 

To me the barrows update sounds distinctly like hard-mode GWD kind of update opposed to outright upping barrows that already exists.

Maybe it'll even tie to Sliske quests and be a new locale where he has other wights stored, afterall the emissary lore said he had hundreds (granted icthairn killed all them to free them but how easily sliske made akrisae gotta assume he made more than 6 in the interim)

[/hide]

That'd be awesome!

I think it'd be pretty cool if there was at least 6 new Barrows brothers (3 more Rangers, 3 more Mages, with at least one of each having a Prayer bonus.)

That's because I'm kinda annoyed that Meleers has the choice between four Barrows sets, while Rangers and Mages only have one option. They could make new set effects that would bring them more in-line with the current Melee brothers set effects (Guthan's and Dharok's set effects come to mind there.)

 

I guess that's because at the time of release, melee was still the sort of #1 combat style (it became to be more so with rapier). They ought to release some more ranged & mage stuff for it, adding a bit more balance to the T70 area. Probably should have done that sooner though, rather than release dw mage and range from it. Could have made two more brothers to provide the dw for those two combat styles. But then again, we have duplicates for melee brothers, so it leaves it open to expansion.

I don't think they can just add another crypt like they did for Akrisae - I imagine it'd be another sort of excavation lead by Varrock Museum (or an independant archeologist (hi Indiana Jones) as idk wtf people from across the Salve would be doing in Morytania).

I was thinking more along the lines of Sliske upgrading the brothers.

[Sy_Accursed]

Talking to clanmates about some of the other things mentioned on that list I've come up with some things I'd HOPE to exist in them, though I wouldn't hold my breath:

 

Construction Rework:

1) Actual useful 'shortcut' building things dotted around the world.

eg perhaps have 3 or 4 bridge building spots along any given river to allow you more ways to get around

2) More Sims-esque freebuilding within houses.

3a) Something they mentioned in passing when clans launched - neighbourhoods.

Let clans houses be groupped into neighbourhoods and let us leave our houses unlocked or locked whilst we are away so we can share resources.

3b) Let neighbourhoods have a system whereby say everyone 10 houses earns a 'community spot' that can hold something special but costs a fair bit to build and adds to clan citadel upkeep. Eg Chapel with perma-lit burners for prayer, a farming space with most plot types, a bank, a smithy.

4) Add more useful furnishings to 'normal' houses eg let us have various stands and mountings that can hold most/all teleport items allowing us to create a true transport hub

5) Seamless entering of houses.

 

Upgraded Toolbelt:

1) Any level of hatchet/pickaxe BUT costs a one-off charge to add them (to compensate for the perma safe from dying thing)

2) Add in various remaining tools that ought to be on there (eg magic secs, magic watering can

3) Add in consumable tools (eg lockpicks, watering can etc)

[Th e Doctor]

Talking to clanmates about some of the other things mentioned on that list I've come up with some things I'd HOPE to exist in them, though I wouldn't hold my breath:

 

Construction Rework:

1) Actual useful 'shortcut' building things dotted around the world.

eg perhaps have 3 or 4 bridge building spots along any given river to allow you more ways to get around

2) More Sims-esque freebuilding within houses.

3a) Something they mentioned in passing when clans launched - neighbourhoods.

Let clans houses be groupped into neighbourhoods and let us leave our houses unlocked or locked whilst we are away so we can share resources.

3b) Let neighbourhoods have a system whereby say everyone 10 houses earns a 'community spot' that can hold something special but costs a fair bit to build and adds to clan citadel upkeep. Eg Chapel with perma-lit burners for prayer, a farming space with most plot types, a bank, a smithy.

4) Add more useful furnishings to 'normal' houses eg let us have various stands and mountings that can hold most/all teleport items allowing us to create a true transport hub

5) Seamless entering of houses.

 

Upgraded Toolbelt:

1) Any level of hatchet/pickaxe BUT costs a one-off charge to add them (to compensate for the perma safe from dying thing)

2) Add in various remaining tools that ought to be on there (eg magic secs, magic watering can

3) Add in consumable tools (eg lockpicks, watering can etc)

 

Yes to all the toolbelt upgrades. I never plan on using my house again unless they nerf warbands so I could care less if the construction update is worthwhile at all.

[Tansuo]

I never plan on using my house again unless they nerf warbands so I could care less if the construction update is worthwhile at all.

 

Huh? What about..

• Teleing from PVM situation to POH, restoring summoning and prayer points, then teleporting to a bank (likely using mounted glory teleport to Edgeville)?
  
• Storing costumes and pets?
  
• Getting Construction Rocks?
  
• Teleporting to locations not on your current spellbook (I.E on Lunar spellbook wanting to teleport to Kharyll (Canifis) ?
  
• Repairing your degradable armour?
  
• Training your prayer (I see you are level 95) ?
  

I'm sure I've missed some other reasons.

 

Do you really plan on never using your house again?

[Platinum_Myr]

And if you do plan on it why not an update changing that plan?

[Sy_Accursed]

I plan to leave my house be (bar adding statue pieces) until they do the rework then re-evaluate.

 

I'd be interested to see them re-write the house system from the ground up and make us have to 'import' things from the old style of housing.

Eg Pet house and costume room items get a direct 'import' function to save tear out rebuild chaos.

Furniture that eats up things (eg stuffed heads) you get the supplies to make + the consumed item back.

Furniture that is just general normal stuff you get special flatpacks for that can be sold to a temporary npc for ge value of materials or rebuilt.

You get say 10% of room build cost refunded.

 

Basically a double house system really whereby if you have an existing house you can reach these functions and see the npc and access the old house (but not add to it) whilst newbs only see the new stuff. Then once your house gets to empty bar garden with portal have Estate agent tele you out, delete old house and you only see the new system.

[Hedgehog]

Hopefully there won't be hotspots anymore. If hotspots and those generic, square-shaped rooms remain, the rework will have been a failure.

 

And the problem with a barrows upgrade is that higher levels will start doing barrows again, reducing the price of barrows items. They can only get away with this update if they make it completely separate, with a new set of wights dropping new sets of armor and weapons. Even then it's still bad cuz they could have just made new, more interesting content instead of being unoriginal.

[Quest_Cape_K]

Hopefully there won't be hotspots anymore. If hotspots and those generic, square-shaped rooms remain, the rework will have been a failure.

 

And the problem with a barrows upgrade is that higher levels will start doing barrows again, reducing the price of barrows items. They can only get away with this update if they make it completely separate, with a new set of wights dropping new sets of armor and weapons. Even then it's still bad cuz they could have just made new, more interesting content instead of being unoriginal.

Or possibly add an artifact nearby, when activated creates a hard mode, resulting in better loot. keeps the same brothers and can be introduced via a quest.

[Ammako]

I'm kind of hoping they would add more possible locations for Player-owned houses with a future Construction update. I'd really like to have my house in the Elf lands.

[Tansuo]

As Sy said before, I think it has to be Sliske related. After all, he is the reason for the Barrows in the first place. Wouldn't be surprised if he had more Wights in store - but weren't the original Barrows brothers meant to be the best warriors in the land? Suppose he could have warriors from a different era..

Just had the idea of those who died during WGS being resurrected by Sliske in Wight form. Though, they didn't die in the same way that Akrisae did, but its plausible that Sliske could bring them back from the grave. Wouldn't mind seeing Hazelmere again though :)

 

EDIT:@Ping, I think that is less likely to happen, simply because we don't yet have access to Prifddianasidanasidnasdass - It's clear they have plans to do stuff with the Elf Lands, just they haven't got round to it.. yet...

[J35u5_M4]

As Sy said before, I think it has to be Sliske related. After all, he is the reason for the Barrows in the first place. Wouldn't be surprised if he had more Wights in store - but weren't the original Barrows brothers meant to be the best warriors in the land? Suppose he could have warriors from a different era..

Just had the idea of those who died during WGS being resurrected by Sliske in Wight form. Though, they didn't die in the same way that Akrisae did, but its plausible that Sliske could bring them back from the grave. Wouldn't mind seeing Hazelmere again though :)

 

EDIT:@Ping, I think that is less likely to happen, simply because we don't yet have access to Prifddianasidanasidnasdass - It's clear they have plans to do stuff with the Elf Lands, just they haven't got round to it.. yet...

 

No, just no, I don't want Hazelmere to be bound to serve Sliske ;_;

[Hedgehog]

Hopefully there won't be hotspots anymore. If hotspots and those generic, square-shaped rooms remain, the rework will have been a failure.

 

And the problem with a barrows upgrade is that higher levels will start doing barrows again, reducing the price of barrows items. They can only get away with this update if they make it completely separate, with a new set of wights dropping new sets of armor and weapons. Even then it's still bad cuz they could have just made new, more interesting content instead of being unoriginal.

Or possibly add an artifact nearby, when activated creates a hard mode, resulting in better loot. keeps the same brothers and can be introduced via a quest.

That is a terrible idea. All it does it make low level content better for higher levels than it is for low levels.

[Quest_Cape_K]

Hopefully there won't be hotspots anymore. If hotspots and those generic, square-shaped rooms remain, the rework will have been a failure.

 

And the problem with a barrows upgrade is that higher levels will start doing barrows again, reducing the price of barrows items. They can only get away with this update if they make it completely separate, with a new set of wights dropping new sets of armor and weapons. Even then it's still bad cuz they could have just made new, more interesting content instead of being unoriginal.

Or possibly add an artifact nearby, when activated creates a hard mode, resulting in better loot. keeps the same brothers and can be introduced via a quest.

That is a terrible idea. All it does it make low level content better for higher levels than it is for low levels.

No, it allows higher levels to use content which can be upgraded to higher levels.

Lower levels would get different loot than higher levels.

[Sy_Accursed]

I don't think more house locations would have to be tied to con rework really if they did things well.

 

They want to take their time with future cities to make them useful unlikely certain failures (Keldagrim), a core way to do this is to include well placed training locations and banks combined with good transport links.

I think their main failing with the likes of Keldagrim was firstly just there isn't enough to do there and secondly lack of transport; I mean kelda does have a few useful things they are just too spread out for no good reason and (especially at launch) it was just soooooooo pita to reach.

Any new major city in terms of transport options should be considered for:

1. Direct Teleport
   
2. House portal with chipped tab
   
3. Fairy Ring(s)
   
4. Balloon Route
   
5. Spirit Tree
   
6. Glider
   
7. Boats
   

[Ginger_Warrior]

[hide]

Hopefully there won't be hotspots anymore. If hotspots and those generic, square-shaped rooms remain, the rework will have been a failure.

 

And the problem with a barrows upgrade is that higher levels will start doing barrows again, reducing the price of barrows items. They can only get away with this update if they make it completely separate, with a new set of wights dropping new sets of armor and weapons. Even then it's still bad cuz they could have just made new, more interesting content instead of being unoriginal.

Or possibly add an artifact nearby, when activated creates a hard mode, resulting in better loot. keeps the same brothers and can be introduced via a quest.

That is a terrible idea. All it does it make low level content better for higher levels than it is for low levels.

[/hide]

No, it allows higher levels to use content which can be upgraded to higher levels.

Lower levels would get different loot than higher levels.

That's an example of power creep which is just about the last thing that should be encouraged for a long-term RPG like RuneScape.

 

As much as high-leveled players salivate at the thought of high level content, there's simply no getting around this issue: it makes old content more redundant that it was previously. This isn't an opinion; it's unquestionable fact. If you're going to "upgrade" something in this manner, do it in an original way, not a rehash of old content, and keep it in balance to what already exists in-game.

 

Jagex have a track record of spectacularly failing on both counts, and the amount of dead content in RuneScape is testament to that.

 

EDIT: Found a video which does a pretty excellent job at explaining power creep as a concept across video gaming:

[Th e Doctor]

I never plan on using my house again unless they nerf warbands so I could care less if the construction update is worthwhile at all.

 

Huh? What about..

• Teleing from PVM situation to POH, restoring summoning and prayer points, then teleporting to a bank (likely using mounted glory teleport to Edgeville)? I don't remember the last time I had to tele from a PvM situation, for bossing I just take the death and get back to my grave, for slayer lol at dying, I use tokkul-zo to get right next to a bank.
  
• Storing costumes and pets? I don't keep any cosmetic items or pets.
  
• Getting Construction Rocks? No interest in getting the statues done as I never plan on getting comp cape. If I ever get the max cape I will quit the game.
  
• Teleporting to locations not on your current spellbook (I.E on Lunar spellbook wanting to teleport to Kharyll (Canifis) ? Teletabs, lodestones, and staying on ancients means I never need this. There's good alternatives for every teleport spell that lunar has.
  
• Repairing your degradable armour? You have me here, I'll be using my house once a year for this.
  
• Training your prayer (I see you are level 95) ? Misc prayer training is all I'll be doing for this (beams from warbands etc).
  

I'm sure I've missed some other reasons.

 

Do you really plan on never using your house again?

 

 

Responses in bold, and like I said, unless the update adds significant value and reasons to going to my house I won't be going there any time soon. Prayer potions are so cheap and there's so many summoning obelisks around I won't be using it for restoring those either.

[Hedgehog]

I think every major city should have a house portal. And you should be able to decorate your house based on its location. Buying Darkmeyer house.

[Tansuo]

Responses in bold, and like I said, unless the update adds significant value and reasons to going to my house I won't be going there any time soon. Prayer potions are so cheap and there's so many summoning obelisks around I won't be using it for restoring those either.

 

The ease of access to obelisks and cheap prayer potions aside, its just so much easier to use your POH.

 

1 - Silly of you to die in PVM situations. Why do you not save yourself the hassle of having to bank and withdraw a few items, go and loot grave, restock and start again when you could just teleport and start afresh? All very well using Tokkul-Zo, but you don't get a summoning recharge do you.

 

2 - How about xp boosting costumes? You can also store armour (notably Void and Hunter Camo) and capes there.

 

3 - Most people who are now max/comp once took that attitude. Odds on you will drop it, but fair enough - it's a trim requirement after all.

 

4 - Fair enough argument, Ancients is the most usefull spell book at the moment (barrage) but a lot of people do use Lunars (NPC contact and for Farming).

 

5 - Mwahahaha (but using it once a year? How little do you do combat?)

 

6 - Not sure you're going to get far doing misc prayer training. Bone crusher might rake in a few k exp a day, warbands are what.. 6k exp per beam? max of 3 beams per day. Although odds are that the beam fails/you're not the first there so lets just say you successfully siphon 1/3 (cmon, that's being generous). The exp from 95-99 is 4.2m. So lets say you get around 10k Prayer exp per day, you might dump in the occasional effigy (although that would be stupid) so around an extra 50k per month, + troll invasion (~71k at 95) and god statues (~15k x 4) that puts you at (30 day month) 481k prayer exp per month (but there are going to be days when you get more/less) so you're looking at 10 monthsish to 99 Prayer. Prayer training for free is always great, but why wait 10 months for it when you are very likely to have the cash to just buy the level and save yourself a lot of time in the future (allowing you to divert the exp rewards from troll/statues/effigies) into other things, that are certainly more worth it than prayer (fishing/agil etc).

 

The cost currently for you to buy 95 prayer is 36m (Dragon Bones). QBD is anywhere from 2-4m per hour, GWD likewise (unless you're camping Sara for Hilts or something, not sure on this). I'd be conservative and say Nex is 4m/h and I'm not sure about KK, so I'd say similar (hate this damn boss). Generally, the best pvm things atm are around 4m. So this is gunna take you 10 hours to generate the cash to buy 99 prayer. Now, you can altar around 1.5-1.8k bones per hour (the upper end using a yak) so lets say 1.6k for you. You need approx 17k dbones to 99, so we're talking 11-12 hours, factoring in distractions and such.

 

This adds up to a rough estimate of 21-2 hours of work, over perhaps the course of a few days, in comparison to 10 months of diverting exp you could use for slower skills, onto prayer. Now, some of the maths here may be wrong, but it's pretty obvious that it's going to be better just to get the levels now. It'll provide immediate benefits in PVM and will further help things such as dungeoneering.

Your call though ofc.

[Kimberly]

Houseparties are always plentiful, ardy capes are faster recharges for prayer, diango holds the majority of exp boosting items, sup restores are dirt cheap for sum points (failing that, lodestone tele after any other instant tele)...

 

Honestly, the only rooms that have remote use that can't be used elsewhere in other player's homes are the costume room and either the kitchen or dungeon depending on your levels.

 

While I personally like my house because I have my own altar/tele spots/etc, I can definitely see why many feel construction is worthless...which is the whole reason it needs a rework, isn't it?

[Cheat]

Warbands is 17k xp a beam @Tansuo

[Tansuo]

Warbands is 17k xp a beam @Tansuo

 

I couldn't find any data on it, RsWiki doesn't provide data and TipIt doesn't even have a page on it so I had to ask a friend. I thought it was around the 10k mark for Prayer, with another similar sum of exp for Summoning. Doesn't really matter, I can't be arsed to go back and tweak calculations. My point about time efficiency is garbled enough as it is :P

[Binary Mage]

Mod Mark did say in the Q&A last year that this year's Construction update (before the total rework) would include new player-locked benefits and training methods inside your POH as a reason for folks to actually level their Construction skill--instead of going to house parties and getting all the benefits there.

 

Considering we're supposed to see that by the end of the year, it should help Construction be more relevant in the short-term.

[Tansuo]

Mod Mark actually says some good shit from time to time (while he's not busy pratting about being so "excited" about various updates). Shame not all of it comes together in the finished update. Really hope this one comes good though.

[Binary Mage]

For the most part, Mod Mark tells us things that are true at the time the question was asked or the statement was made. Game development is a crazy business--things can change completely, dates can be moved back, projects can be found to be useless and scrapped in favor of a better idea. What was true today may not be true tomorrow, especially when working with an in-house game engine with its own share of limitations. For all we know, said Construction changes could have been cancelled and, instead, the full Construction rework moved up to later this year. This is the problem of giving people hints and advance information--people may love you for update hints and future plans, but will hate you if a single thing is out of place when it finally gets here (or gets scrapped).

 

But, generally, most updates don't get scrapped--so there's an incredibly good chance that we will see said Construction update this year. (Especially if he was confident enough about it to mention it to us)

 

The execution of the update could be miserable (unlikely), but we will probably see it in some shape or form in the coming months.

[michel555555]

Would love more barrows to chose from. they could add more with the return of the gods.

 

The book of silske from the emissaries says that silske made wights once before durring the war between the desert gods and zaros when the marahajatt still folowed the desert gods. After the war thoguh the wights were taken from silske by the desert gods and given their rest, and silske wasn't happy about it. They could just add a miniquest were silske with his new found god powers is stealing the wights back from the desert gods which would unlock new barrows. Then remove wand,book and dual c bows from existing brothers and make new dual wield theme ones.

 

And then we don't have to worry about changing barrows lore or turning random new people into wights.