Your Ideas Needed!

[crazycdcm]

I mean what is the difference between dg rings not mentioning they only work on strength mode and pneumatic gauntlets' examine text falsely claiming that they make you hit higher (which has since been changed). The difference is you got an option to get your dg tokens back, but not your money.

 

While I agree with a lot of your points, I have to say that two wrongs don't make a right, and in this circumstance, the wrong is possible to right.

 

Should it be righted though? Should we single out one fraction of the game where you can get do-overs when something changes?

 

I know it's a bit of an easy way out, but I honestly think in the exceptional amount of change with the EoC, yes. But rather than seeing it as singling out a fraction of the game, I'd see it as recognising an overall problem, and fixing what can be fixed. I can't see a problem with fixing a grievance for some players, by simpling pressing a button that already exists.

 

Also in the interests of staying on topic, the use of skill boosts has been mentioned already. I wonder if it's wise to allow their use. I can foresee high herblorists selling artisans, gatherers pots to people so they can complete their tasks. Maybe that's a good thing, but not to me personally. I'm an oldie and am against things that encourage gameplay that's not in the spirit of the game.

[helring]

Obviously, they aren't doing this, so why are dg rings so special?

Because they've offered a ring reset in the past, for a similar reason? Because DG tokens aren't the same as money? Because players training the skill don't have enough of them to waste on useless options before the mid-100s? Because the skill's rewards are tied to the player's experience? Because some players still have available resets from the first time, as it's part of the ring interface? Because the changes have more of an effect on gameplay now than they did then?

 

Did I miss anything?

 

Remember that Berserker was still considered the best ring upgrade, people just changed their weapons to take advantage of it. The people who the reset helped most were people that bought ring upgrades before they/anyone developed their playstyles. In this case, they've flat-out changed the effects, or the mechanics behind them, without offering the same. Tactician is the same, Berserker changed into an accuracy boost. Desperado didn't change, but ranged level has next-to-no impact on damage now. Blazer went from a 50% increase to flat damage that was weaker than a basic ability (And, until recently, overwrote that ability).

 

I'm honestly having trouble figuring out why that's so hard to understand. It's more like not offering players a ports reset if they changed armor to T75 without telling anyone, when they offered the same for not clarifying whether it was offensive or defensive.

 

Because they've offered a ring reset in the past, for a similar reason? - Having precedent does not necessarily mean it's a good idea. Example: bonus xp weekends.

 

Because DG tokens aren't the same as money? - Dg tokens are a currency that takes longer to acquire than rsgp. They both represent time spent doing something (earning money or training dg).

 

Because players training the skill don't have enough of them to waste on useless options before the mid-100s? - Agreed

 

Because the skill's rewards are tied to the player's experience? - Don't really understand what you're getting at. Seems like this is how all skills work.

 

Because some players still have available resets from the first time, as it's part of the ring interface? - I believe having resets in the first place was a mistake.

 

Because the changes have more of an effect on gameplay now than they did then? - Wasting tokens on dg rings that became useless is really a drop in the bucket when I look at things like specials being removed and the whole "port armor will get set effects" fiasco. People spend time earning gear/boosts all the time which are later nerfed.

 

I'm not arguing that we shouldn't get a reset this time, i'm saying having them at all was a mistake. I mean what is the difference between dg rings not mentioning they only work on strength mode and pneumatic gauntlets' examine text falsely claiming that they make you hit higher (which has since been changed). The difference is you got an option to get your dg tokens back, but not your money.

 

I think people should get a reset even though I don't particularly want one and doubt I'd use it. The major difference between this and stuff that costs money is that this situation is such an easy fix. Tokens used on ring are a set value and they were never tradeable so you don't have to worry about larger economic repercussions or items having changed hands. In a perfect world mistakes like Jagex made with gloves would be easy to fix, but it isn't, that doesn't mean that they shouldn't fix the problems they caused that are easy to fix.

[Urza285]

I still stand my ground that people think rollbacks and resets are an option instead of what they really are to jagex: an exception.

[helring]

I still stand my ground that people think rollbacks and resets are an option instead of what they really are to jagex: an exception.

 

If its possible then its always an option. Ring resets are an even better option than rollbacks because they don't effect anyone negatively. They also don't require the massive amount of work that returning lost items does with checking each account.

[Urza285]

I still stand my ground that people think rollbacks and resets are an option instead of what they really are to jagex: an exception.

 

If its possible then its always an option. Ring resets are an even better option than rollbacks because they don't effect anyone negatively. They also don't require the massive amount of work that returning lost items does with checking each account.

No, sorry I really do think you are mistaken in this context.

[V O R K]

The POH bug was quite the exception. :shrug:

[strilmus]

I haven't read through this thread, but has it been suggested that we may be able to sell back rewards we no longer need at say, 50% token value?

[Urza285]

The POH bug was quite the exception. :shrug:

Yeah and I agree completely there... Fail massacre *shakes head* I do believe some people got their items back, but only the insanely wealthy. They really were dicks on that one though.

[Platinum_Myr]

I believe that if the Falador Massacre happened again today, the rollback and item returning would be a bit more widespread. Jagex as a company is vastly different than it was at the time in 2006.

[Saradomin_Mage]

Didn't it happen at like 1 or 2am in the UK? Probably were too shocked/understaffed to decide to pull out a rollback

[Platinum_Myr]

Yes. It was pretty incredibly shocking, however they definitely had a different policy regarding item returning due to glitches back then. Current customer support is a lot more willing to consider it at least.

[Sy_Accursed]

I think back then there was two factors at play:

 

1) There hadn't been anything that had happened to need item returns, it was kinda unprecedented but as the game has gotten larger possible item lose due to glitches has exponentially grown.

2) Back then there wasn't the technology in place to truly see who had lost what; now it seems they have a much better back-end (primarily built for RWT purposes no doubt) along with more easily accessible back-ups that mean they can actually look and see person x had y until glitch z happened.

[Aiel]

I still stand my ground that people think rollbacks and resets are an option instead of what they really are to jagex: an exception.

 

If its possible then its always an option. Ring resets are an even better option than rollbacks because they don't effect anyone negatively. They also don't require the massive amount of work that returning lost items does with checking each account.

No, sorry I really do think you are mistaken in this context.

No, I don't think he is. Who would a ring reset have effected negatively? How would it have required a massive amount of work?

[Estoc]

I still stand my ground that people think rollbacks and resets are an option instead of what they really are to jagex: an exception.

 

If its possible then its always an option. Ring resets are an even better option than rollbacks because they don't effect anyone negatively. They also don't require the massive amount of work that returning lost items does with checking each account.

No, sorry I really do think you are mistaken in this context.

No, I don't think he is. Who would a ring reset have effected negatively? How would it have required a massive amount of work?

 

Ring resets would be fine if they were there from the beginning and functioned essentially the same as selling items back to a shop or something to balance it. However, they're currently being used as a do over for people who've spent their tokens unwisely or to counteract a change in the game which change the value of a commodity the player has purchased.

 

To answer your question, players who make bad decisions outside of dg are being affected negatively as dgers are given a free ride while they must walk. This is not me wanting an eye for an eye, this is about consistency. Either let me reset fist of guthix tokens, tokkul, runecrafting guild tokens, runespan points, barbarian assault honor points and all other currencies, or let people deal with their purchases just like it's always been.

 

As for the amount of work, I'm pretty sure that he was referring to the fact that he doesn't agree on it being a good idea in general.

[Urza285]

I still stand my ground that people think rollbacks and resets are an option instead of what they really are to jagex: an exception.

 

If its possible then its always an option. Ring resets are an even better option than rollbacks because they don't effect anyone negatively. They also don't require the massive amount of work that returning lost items does with checking each account.

No, sorry I really do think you are mistaken in this context.

No, I don't think he is. Who would a ring reset have effected negatively? How would it have required a massive amount of work?

 

Ring resets would be fine if they were there from the beginning and functioned essentially the same as selling items back to a shop or something to balance it. However, they're currently being used as a do over for people who've spent their tokens unwisely or to counteract a change in the game which change the value of a commodity the player has purchased.

 

To answer your question, players who make bad decisions outside of dg are being affected negatively as dgers are given a free ride while they must walk. This is not me wanting an eye for an eye, this is about consistency. Either let me reset fist of guthix tokens, tokkul, runecrafting guild tokens, runespan points, barbarian assault honor points and all other currencies, or let people deal with their purchases just like it's always been.

 

As for the amount of work, I'm pretty sure that he was referring to the fact that he doesn't agree on it being a good idea in general.

Wow hes done it again :D. Yes, exactly, again, what I see is the case. They aren't resetting my livid farm points either...

[Platinum_Myr]

And the people who paid attention and don't like to skill past 120dg/200m xp can use the reset to get back ring tokens and use them for items/xp after/near the end of dg...

 

Which is not really what it was for. And that is why we shouldn't add a new reset, because that is *primarily* what it will be used for.

[helring]

And the people who paid attention and don't like to skill past 120dg/200m xp can use the reset to get back ring tokens and use them for items/xp after/near the end of dg...

 

Which is not really what it was for. And that is why we shouldn't add a new reset, because that is *primarily* what it will be used for.

 

Although I disagree that this is all that big of a negative, its the first real argument against it that I've seen.

 

I still stand my ground that people think rollbacks and resets are an option instead of what they really are to jagex: an exception.

 

If its possible then its always an option. Ring resets are an even better option than rollbacks because they don't effect anyone negatively. They also don't require the massive amount of work that returning lost items does with checking each account.

No, sorry I really do think you are mistaken in this context.

No, I don't think he is. Who would a ring reset have effected negatively? How would it have required a massive amount of work?

 

Ring resets would be fine if they were there from the beginning and functioned essentially the same as selling items back to a shop or something to balance it. However, they're currently being used as a do over for people who've spent their tokens unwisely or to counteract a change in the game which change the value of a commodity the player has purchased.

 

To answer your question, players who make bad decisions outside of dg are being affected negatively as dgers are given a free ride while they must walk. This is not me wanting an eye for an eye, this is about consistency. Either let me reset fist of guthix tokens, tokkul, runecrafting guild tokens, runespan points, barbarian assault honor points and all other currencies, or let people deal with their purchases just like it's always been.

 

As for the amount of work, I'm pretty sure that he was referring to the fact that he doesn't agree on it being a good idea in general.

Wow hes done it again :D. Yes, exactly, again, what I see is the case. They aren't resetting my livid farm points either...

 

The attitude that you must be able to fix every problem or you shouldn't fix any is ridiculous. Jagex should fix any problems that arise if the fix causes no harm and its easy to implement. Tokkul, gop tokens, fog tokens and many others would be harder to code for because you can spend them on tradeable items, and therefore might be too resource intensive to implement. It seems more like you're complaining that it shouldn't be done just because it won't benefit you personally.

 

Edit: It's not that I don't support item returns or being able to get a refund on other currencies, its just that many of them by their very nature make it hard to do so when you bring tradeable items and the larger economy into it.

[Kimberly]

And the people who paid attention and don't like to skill past 120dg/200m xp can use the reset to get back ring tokens and use them for items/xp after/near the end of dg...

 

Most people just grinding out for items don't bother to waste time on upgrading their rings. They simply want it over and done with. Those past those milestones of obtaining their favorite items really have nothing else to do with their tokens but to put it into exp, and that's not really worthwhile anyway since they gain xp at such a higher rate than they do tokens.

 

It might not be what it was intended for, but the affect of abusing addition resets is really quite small. If it's that big of a concern, they could just put dg ring resets in for a small amount of tokens per reset and skip the refunds altogether...but again I really don't think the "Abuse" from those things would be that big of an issue since DG is self-contained as it is.

[Urza285]

Nope I don't care about myself as far as this is concerned. My main concern is consistence with respect to the game and its mechanics. We know that it is an ever-evolving game and granted having these rollbacks would play nicely with that concept it makes it too easy for longstanding players to get get an unfair advantage on new content. All players should be starting this new content with relatively equal ground. I mean wow if you got a stockpile of tokens of any sort then congratulations to you for your efforts to save them instead of spending them on *relatively* worthwhile rewards. For the players who just broke bank with their tokens and bought rewards based on current trends I feel for you, but you should know logging in that things change and they happen to not be in your favor.

 

Hell I'll even make it personal - I bought pernix post ascension dungeon when they were still dropping and still lost money. I also bought virtus pre-vorago and its still crashing. I'm not whining about both of these. I am objective to the whole market effect. If I lose money then its nothing. The only problem is if I lost if unfairly or if I lose it outright by a scam, hack or unable to get back to a grave (and everyone feels that way so its mutual).

[Estoc]

The attitude that you must be able to fix every problem or you shouldn't fix any is ridiculous.

I agree fully. However, making a choice and dealing with the consequences is one of the ideals I look for in a video game, not a problem.

 

Tokkul, gop tokens, fog tokens and many others would be harder to code for because you can spend them on tradeable items, and therefore might be too resource intensive to implement.

Then where is my reset for group vengeance? It's now a shadow of it's former self.

Where is my sell option for poh steel dragon?

Aquanite task unlock?

Ice strykwyrm kills without firecape?

Remove option for toolbelted dragon hatchet and pickaxe?

Hazeel cult (only way to get mark of Hazeel is taking the evil side)?

Hell, where is my sell option for chaotics? I bought a bunch of them and now have 2/3 level 90 weapon sets. I want my tokens back because the thing I paid for has become obsolete.

 

In my opinion, offering do overs for these would cheapen them. Steel dragons would not be impressive if you could just sell them like castlewars rewards for full price. I'd have a house full of them right now, and combined they would mean less than the single one I have.

 

It seems more like you're complaining that it shouldn't be done just because it won't benefit you personally.

 

On the contrary, I can, and plan to use this reset if it comes. However, if I step back and look at the big picture, resets look like a mistake.

[Kimberly]

Hell I'll even make it personal - I bought pernix post ascension dungeon when they were still dropping and still lost money. I also bought virtus pre-vorago and its still crashing. I'm not whining about both of these. I am objective to the whole market effect. If I lose money then its nothing. The only problem is if I lost if unfairly or if I lose it outright by a scam, hack or unable to get back to a grave (and everyone feels that way so its mutual).

 

People who already used their ring reset in the two years before the combat system was changed entirely is a bit different than making a really poorly thought out GE purchase...

 

As for the subject of whining, I haven't see any on the this topic so far. The entire premise of it is to offer suggestions, and that's precisely what people are doing.

[strilmus]

maybe the issue is more that garbage items continue to be created and nothing is done to make them useful

 

in any case i am not sure if you are proposing that the status quo (car dealership) is the only thing we will have forever

[Urza285]

I am under the impression someone thought I was whining. Hell if they offer another reset under the premise of a reward I don't mind.

[helring]

The attitude that you must be able to fix every problem or you shouldn't fix any is ridiculous.

I agree fully. However, making a choice and dealing with the consequences is one of the ideals I look for in a video game, not a problem.

 

Tokkul, gop tokens, fog tokens and many others would be harder to code for because you can spend them on tradeable items, and therefore might be too resource intensive to implement.

Then where is my reset for group vengeance? It's now a shadow of it's former self.

Where is my sell option for poh steel dragon?

Aquanite task unlock?

Ice strykwyrm kills without firecape?

Remove option for toolbelted dragon hatchet and pickaxe?

Hazeel cult (only way to get mark of Hazeel is taking the evil side)?

Hell, where is my sell option for chaotics? I bought a bunch of them and now have 2/3 level 90 weapon sets. I want my tokens back because the thing I paid for has become obsolete.

 

In my opinion, offering do overs for these would cheapen them. Steel dragons would not be impressive if you could just sell them like castlewars rewards for full price. I'd have a house full of them right now, and combined they would mean less than the single one I have.

 

It seems more like you're complaining that it shouldn't be done just because it won't benefit you personally.

 

On the contrary, I can, and plan to use this reset if it comes. However, if I step back and look at the big picture, resets look like a mistake.

 

Then where is my reset for group vengeance? It's now a shadow of it's former self.

Where is my sell option for poh steel dragon?

Aquanite task unlock?

Ice strykwyrm kills without firecape?

Remove option for toolbelted dragon hatchet and pickaxe?

Hazeel cult (only way to get mark of Hazeel is taking the evil side)?

Hell, where is my sell option for chaotics? I bought a bunch of them and now have 2/3 level 90 weapon sets. I want my tokens back because the thing I paid for has become obsolete.

 

Everythingyou listed up above could be planned ahead for. None of those is obsolete because Jagex changed the mechanics of how they work. If Jagex decided that Ice Strykewyrms never need a firecape to kill anymore, then I would support a reset for that. If Jagex decided to drop chaotics stats to lower than rune, then I would support a refund. The things you listed were changes that were based upon decisions where you had a reasonable ability to foresee what would happen. People who paid for the ring upgrades had no reasonable way to foresee that Jagex would completely overhaul the combat and change what they did.

[Alg]

maybe the issue is more that garbage items continue to be created and nothing is done to make them useful

Kind of have to agree with this part. We wouldn't even be having this discussion if the average update built on existing content rather than building over it. Refunds are pretty much just a bandaid over poor mechanics.