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Behind the Scenes � September 2013


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Alright, then lets rename the task to "Ring Thing"

 

and list the description as "something to do with that bloody dungeon ring"

 

and the requirements as "lvl... oh, i don't know, but you need a ring, of sorts!"

 

and make the hint as "DON'T USE IT ON THE VOLCANO JUST THINK OF THE CONSEQUENCES WHAT DID IT EVER TO DO YOU TOO?? THE VOLCANO ISN'T DEMONHEIM SO IT WON'T WORK"

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I don't even see why there was remotely any confusion at all about the ring task; was pretty obvious it meant a full upgraded ring and not 12 fully upgraded rings. Especially seeing as it is 323k tokens for a single ring at max; aka 3.23m dg xp and they explicitly said it would not require over 99 and doing all 12 would need over 38m xp for the tokens. Even using sinkholes I don't think its possible to get all them tokens and not hit 99.

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Sounds like this month will have something interesting enough for me to come back for a while, especially since Divination was as dull as Livid Farm and kinda killed my enthusiasm slightly again.

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I don't even see why there was remotely any confusion at all about the ring task; was pretty obvious it meant a full upgraded ring and not 12 fully upgraded rings. Especially seeing as it is 323k tokens for a single ring at max; aka 3.23m dg xp and they explicitly said it would not require over 99 and doing all 12 would need over 38m xp for the tokens. Even using sinkholes I don't think its possible to get all them tokens and not hit 99.

 

Because it said fully upgraded ring, not fully upgraded ring class, which can easily (and obviously has been) interpreted to mean all twelve EVEN WITH the "no 99+" clarifier. A minor issue re: wording sure, however it obviously has affected the perception of the statement of a number of people (enough as to require a JMad response).

 

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I don't even see why there was remotely any confusion at all about the ring task; was pretty obvious it meant a full upgraded ring and not 12 fully upgraded rings. Especially seeing as it is 323k tokens for a single ring at max; aka 3.23m dg xp and they explicitly said it would not require over 99 and doing all 12 would need over 38m xp for the tokens. Even using sinkholes I don't think its possible to get all them tokens and not hit 99.

 

Because it said fully upgraded ring, not fully upgraded ring class, which can easily (and obviously has been) interpreted to mean all twelve EVEN WITH the "no 99+" clarifier. A minor issue re: wording sure, however it obviously has affected the perception of the statement of a number of people (enough as to require a JMad response).

 

And yet in the jagex wiki and in DGS etc etc terminology everyone uses terminology of having 'a berzeker ring' or 'a desperado ring' or 'your rings should be desperado and zerker' or 'working on their second ring'

 

Just find it strange when our day-to-day language defines one customisation track as 'a ring' combined with the fact jagex clearly said it would not need over 99 that people randomly assumed 'a fully upgraded ring' would mean anything but a singular customisation track.

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Just find it strange when our day-to-day language defines one customisation track as 'a ring' combined with the fact jagex clearly said it would not need over 99 that people randomly assumed 'a fully upgraded ring' would mean anything but a singular customisation track.

Even then, I'm not sure how many players with under 99 (Outside of big-name clans, at least) have fully upgraded a ring track. I was under the impression that chaotics were more of a priority.

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Just find it strange when our day-to-day language defines one customisation track as 'a ring' combined with the fact jagex clearly said it would not need over 99 that people randomly assumed 'a fully upgraded ring' would mean anything but a singular customisation track.

Even then, I'm not sure how many players with under 99 (Outside of big-name clans, at least) have fully upgraded a ring track. I was under the impression that chaotics were more of a priority.

 

True, but what players do and what is strictly needed are not the same thing.

And arguably it is doable even with chaotics 200k tokens for claws, 200k for staff 300k for ccbs = 7mil xp

Just over 300k for a fully upgraded ring =~10mil xp for the basic chaotics + full ring.

 

And of course if a player was to be optimal they'd opt for virtus over chaotic staff taking us down to ~8mil xp.

But strictly speaking one can have a fully upgraded ring at around lvl 85.

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True, but what players do and what is strictly needed are not the same thing.

And arguably it is doable even with chaotics 200k tokens for claws, 200k for staff 300k for ccbs = 7mil xp

Just over 300k for a fully upgraded ring =~10mil xp for the basic chaotics + full ring.

 

And of course if a player was to be optimal they'd opt for virtus over chaotic staff taking us down to ~8mil xp.

But strictly speaking one can have a fully upgraded ring at around lvl 85.

Now tell me how many players have actually done that, considering:

- How often the optimal setup has changed, whether due to game updates or metagame changes. Offhand I can remember rapier (pre-eoc) to maul (pre-DW fix, pre-claws), to claws (current), and that's just game changes.

- How easy it is to get DG experience without getting tokens

- Potential replacements for lost chaotics

- How limited your pool of tokens is prior to 100. There are a lot of rewards that players would rather get than a small ring boost.

- Tokens spent *gasp* sub-optimally, for whatever reason. That's a thing people do, you know.

 

If you're designing your game around an ideal that few people can actually achieve and leaving a relatively small amount of room for error, you're going to have a bad time. Especially when all purchases are final. That 3 million buffer goes away pretty quickly when one extra chaotic sets you back 2 million.

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They aren't designing the tasks to be probably for someone under 99.. I believe they just want to ensure its possible (in order for the "but tasks shouldn't be this difficult" crowd to be appeased)

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Yeah I don't see what your point is about whether or not people WILL do it below 99 that doesn't matter.

 

The point is jagex has said no task will NEED 99 and it is perfectly possible to achieve a maxed ring below 99 thereby fulfilling their claim.

 

It's not like anyone is claiming you WILL do the tasks below 99 or the task is to fill a ring before 99.

The task is just to fill a ring.

Jagex separately said no task will require 99 dg, and it is a fact you can do the ring under 99.

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I have 130M Dungeoneering experience (the only skill I have wholeheartedly loved, and still love, and have found extremely engaging and fun throughout the years), and even I, with my spare 4 million tokens, don't have a fully-upgraded ring track. Why? Because they're useless, the last 2 levels or whatnot. You can bet that most people under 99 don't have a fully-upgraded ring.

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Yeah I don't see what your point is about whether or not people WILL do it below 99 that doesn't matter.

 

The point is jagex has said no task will NEED 99 and it is perfectly possible to achieve a maxed ring below 99 thereby fulfilling their claim.

 

It's not like anyone is claiming you WILL do the tasks below 99 or the task is to fill a ring before 99.

The task is just to fill a ring.

Jagex separately said no task will require 99 dg, and it is a fact you can do the ring under 99.

I but what how it's like you didn't even read why

 

There's a very simple point to it. Design your content around what people actually do, not what they could do under perfect circumstances. Perfect circumstances just don't happen.

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Yeah I don't see what your point is about whether or not people WILL do it below 99 that doesn't matter.

 

The point is jagex has said no task will NEED 99 and it is perfectly possible to achieve a maxed ring below 99 thereby fulfilling their claim.

 

It's not like anyone is claiming you WILL do the tasks below 99 or the task is to fill a ring before 99.

The task is just to fill a ring.

Jagex separately said no task will require 99 dg, and it is a fact you can do the ring under 99.

I but what how it's like you didn't even read why

 

There's a very simple point to it. Design your content around what people actually do, not what they could do under perfect circumstances. Perfect circumstances just don't happen.

 

This. It's also possible to get an untrimmed Slayer cape, but it doesn't happen very often. It's possible to get a fully-upgraded ring before 99, but it rarely happens. The de facto requirement for most people will be 99+. Not that this bothers me, but I can see why others might be bothered.

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I'm just glad I haven't used my ring reset yet. My highest ring is t6 since I don't really do DG all that much, so I'll probably just get the highest tier then reset my ring and get rewards tbh. There are so many more things that I need now outside of DG since EoC came out.

For what it is worth: I just got 89 Dg, I have 1 chaotic and 100k tokens to spare. I've had to buy 2 ASN and I'm sure I've used tokens to make CR a lot cheaper to maintain while I was going for 99 melees at dag sentinals last summer.

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I still fail to see your point.

 

Task are about doing EVERYTHING an area offers and fully upgrading a ring is party of that.

And I fail to see how 'designing content around what players actually do' has anything to do with getting a ring below 99 or not.

 

Fully upgrading the ring has no real level requirement beyond ~85 needed to do it (without sinkholes). The fact the task set can be done below 99 is neither here nor there in the design of that task, it's just an incidental fact the task set does not required max dg and can be done under 99.

 

It's not like jagex designed the task set specifically to be done below 99 or aimed it players doing it all under 99, they pure and simply put in no requirements that strictly need you to exceed 99. Its your call whether you play a specific way to achieve that or whether you do wtf you want.

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I have tried but I just don't see any issue about designing to how people play in this matter.

Jagex just made an off hand remark that you can do all the tasks below 99 and factually speaking it is possible to do so.

 

So where's the issue?

It can be done below 99 so the statement is valid, but there is nothing dictating that it has to be or that even most players will do as such. It's just a pure and simple statement of fact that it can be done below 99.

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I get that you are talking about 'designed for how players play' and thus whether it is 'reasonable' but I still fail to see any issue.

 

They didn't say it was designed to be done below 99, they didn't say they expected people to do it below 99 they just said nothing in the task set requires over 99.

 

Regardless of whether average player style would get it before 99 or not or if its 'reasonable' or not; it's just a factual statement about the task set. Nothing requires you have to more than 99 to finish it.

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I don't think 300k tokens is a big deal even for people with relatively low levels. It would have been a big deal when achievement diaries were released, but since Temple Trekking and Dominion Tower are part of task sets, 300k tokens is perfectly acceptable. Considering the xp rates on dungeoneering, and the high requirements in slower skills we've had (91 fishing with pie, 95 summoning), I think even level 105 tasks would be fine, if not level 113 tasks. Since potions are pretty powerful in dg, every other skill requirement (apart from summ/pray, which are spoken for in other sets) is basically in the high 80s and ~95 herblore, which is not high for an elite task set.

 

Not to mention that we got a heads-up about the task, so people without tokens can easily finish the requirement before release.

 

@Sy: It would be wisest to stop splitting hairs. Yes, we know it doesn't require 99. We also know that not many people below 99 dungeoneering already have the requirement. That's all we need to know, everything else is arguing for argument's sake.

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I don't think 300k tokens is a big deal even for people with relatively low levels. It would have been a big deal when achievement diaries were released, but since Temple Trekking and Dominion Tower are part of task sets, 300k tokens is perfectly acceptable.

 

Yes, I don't personally mind it. It's tame in comparison to Dominion Tower and Temple Trekking. Those were hellish, when I did them.

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I don't think 300k tokens is a big deal even for people with relatively low levels. It would have been a big deal when achievement diaries were released, but since Temple Trekking and Dominion Tower are part of task sets, 300k tokens is perfectly acceptable. Considering the xp rates on dungeoneering, and the high requirements in slower skills we've had (91 fishing with pie, 95 summoning), I think even level 105 tasks would be fine, if not level 113 tasks. Since potions are pretty powerful in dg, every other skill requirement (apart from summ/pray, which are spoken for in other sets) is basically in the high 80s and ~95 herblore, which is not high for an elite task set.

Believe me, I wouldn't have any problem with that requirement it if this was the case.

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I don't have a big problem with 300k odd tokens thou I never understood the reason for upgrading the ring. To my understanding it serves no real purpose post EOC now anyway. However, I do see it as a pita, Temple Trekking and Dominion Tower as well. I understand task are meant to introduce you to all the content available in an area but I think it's unreasonable to request players to completely finishing something like Dominion Tower or Temple Trekking because everyone is not going to like it. Yoko mentioned it was hell doing those task because he probably didn't like doing it or it took way too long to do. If Jagex had said level an trekker to 99 or unlock an reward from Dominion Tower, I think that would go over better because it exposes you to what there is in a reasonable way. It's leave it up to you as the player to if you want to continue doing this. But having a player max Temple trekking/Dominion Tower is really just mean because you are forcing player to engage in content they hate by way of an activity that's just suppose to show you what there is. It's almost as bad as Jagex not realizing some of it's content is dead and needs to be consolidated into other parts of the game that is alive.

 

However, I also understand task like these are in the elite section that the average player may or may not do because of how they judge the elite rewards. Like I said, I don't have a problem per say, but I do understand the fuss.

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