Future Update Discussions

[Alg]

You're thinking of Bandos as a supervillain instead of a chess player/military commander, which is causing a lot of problems

I'm not sure if chess involves throwing your own pawns at one another for your own amusement.

[Yoko Kurama]

If the gray characters are rare in what you're touting as a gray conflict, you're doing something horribly wrong. Even then, that's not really what a gray character is... And I'm not sure how a mindlessly violent villain is anything other than the most cliched archetype in fiction.

 

Gray characters usually are rare in fiction; they are a sort of half-way between white and black characters. 

 

Bandos is clichéd in his villainy (though, it's not mindless, he's an intelligent creature who simply finds purpose in war -- no more different than the player or NPC who finds purpose in smithing). So yes, he's clichéd, but he sort of needs to be. A lot of the other characters (Zaros, Zamorak, Saradomin) are gray characters -- you can't really throw every one into that mold, otherwise it becomes overused. Someone had to be the definitive bad guy/bully, and Bandos is that. All things considered, he could have been a lot more one-dimensional and clichéd, so I think he's pretty decent as a character and not as bad as he could have been.

[Hedgehog]

 

You're thinking of Bandos as a supervillain instead of a chess player/military commander, which is causing a lot of problems

I'm not sure if chess involves throwing your own pawns at one another for your own amusement.

 

Well I mean

 

If you had a chess board and chess pieces and nothing else to do and no one else to play with, would you just leave the board there?

[Yoko Kurama]

 

If the gray characters are rare in what you're touting as a gray conflict, you're doing something horribly wrong. Even then, that's not really what a gray character is... And I'm not sure how a mindlessly violent villain is anything other than the most cliched archetype in fiction.

 

I find Bandos interesting because he is so overwhelmingly evil. Jagex has been trying to give everyone either a flaw or a strength and they got to Bandos and were just like "Nope, He's Evil". Every other character has some form of grey in there. Armadyl led his followers to genocide, he's not really a great warleader and thats a weakness for him.  Bandos has deliberately genocided his own people when they had no one else to fight. Its interesting in how unambiguously bad for Gielinor he is. Thats why I think he's an interesting character for the game but also why I won't be wanting him to win.

 

 

Except Bandos actually learned from his mistake and changed his worldview -- he no longer thinks that war should be pursued if it will end in ultimate genocide (hence the Chosen Commander story line). What has Armadyl learned? He was in one of the most devastating and bloody conflicts in all of history which lead to countless genocides and involved psychopathic gods -- what does he learn after thousands of years of reflection and banishment? Apparently nothing. Because in the 6th Age he still tries pacifism against these psychopathic, violent, empowered maniacs. Seems naive and silly to me.

[Sy_Accursed]

I'm curious where this changed worldview is, seeing as one of his most recent acts was to try and commit a genocide on the cave goblins and then, having just got back to Gielinor he's all fired up to fight gods causing more potential genocide and almost immediately is going to attack Armadyl.

[Hedgehog]

I'm curious where this changed worldview is, seeing as one of his most recent acts was to try and commit a genocide on the cave goblins and then, having just got back to Gielinor he's all fired up to fight gods causing more potential genocide and almost immediately is going to attack Armadyl.

I'll respect Armadyl a little if he's the one who initiates the combat

[Yoko Kurama]

 

I'm curious where this changed worldview is, seeing as one of his most recent acts was to try and commit a genocide on the cave goblins and then, having just got back to Gielinor he's all fired up to fight gods causing more potential genocide and almost immediately is going to attack Armadyl.

I'll respect Armadyl a little if he's the one who initiates the combat

 

 

This. Nothing more nauseating than mindless pacifism.

 

 

 

I'm curious where this changed worldview is, seeing as one of his most recent acts was to try and commit a genocide on the cave goblins and then, having just got back to Gielinor he's all fired up to fight gods causing more potential genocide and almost immediately is going to attack Armadyl.

 

He hasn't renounced war. He has renounced it in situations where everyone dies (importantly most or all of his followers). War, by definition, has the possibility of genocide - so, no, he hasn't renounced that (none of the Gods, except Guthix, really acknowledge this with any seriousness). He has however renounced complete genocide. 

[Kimberly]

Renounced it...of his followers. I'm fairly certain that he wouldn't care if someone else's race was completely wiped out. That's war.

[Yoko Kurama]

Renounced it...of his followers. I'm fairly certain that he wouldn't care if someone else's race was completely wiped out. That's war.

 

Yes. And that's precisely how all the other Gods view it as well.. Zamorak (who is supposed to be a 'noble demon') wouldn't care if all the Icyene were exterminated, and Saradomin (another gray character and nominally 'good' guy) wouldn't care if all the Vampyres and Demons were exterminated in combat. Pretty sure Armadyl's armies also killed combatants of other races. That's the point of war at the end of the day, to kill the other side. Bandos is unique in that he seems to be honest and upfront about it, rather than make excuses or try to salvage his image (though he does lie to his followers). He also isn't petty about combat. He can be vengeful (as seen by his attempt to punish the Dorgesh), but he seems not to hold grudges against other combatants. And he seems to push around people who are weaker than him -- he seems to respect power alone.

[Quyneax]

 

If the gray characters are rare in what you're touting as a gray conflict, you're doing something horribly wrong. Even then, that's not really what a gray character is... And I'm not sure how a mindlessly violent villain is anything other than the most cliched archetype in fiction.

Gray characters usually are rare in fiction; they are a sort of half-way between white and black characters.

 

???

 

You're reading really low quality fiction... the whole point of literature is the grey character. The exact tint of grey may vary, but only an inept writer would have black and white only.

 

Anyway, I don't think that the above discussion is all that relevant to the dimensionality of Bandos or any god. The question is: if I take away this characteristic, what's left? What is Bandos without his drive for war? What do we know about Bandos apart from that he wants war? He likes to cause it, but not necessarily between gods - mortals will do (as evidenced by the goblin tribes). He likes watching war, but do we know of any attack he's started? As far as I know, he always exploits existing conflicts and turns them violent.

 

Is there any reason to suspect that Bandos aims for anything but turning competition violent?

[Yoko Kurama]

 

 

If the gray characters are rare in what you're touting as a gray conflict, you're doing something horribly wrong. Even then, that's not really what a gray character is... And I'm not sure how a mindlessly violent villain is anything other than the most cliched archetype in fiction.

Gray characters usually are rare in fiction; they are a sort of half-way between white and black characters.

 

???

 

You're reading really low quality fiction... the whole point of literature is the grey character. The exact tint of grey may vary, but only an inept writer would have black and white only.

 

Anyway, I don't think that the above discussion is all that relevant to the dimensionality of Bandos or any god. The question is: if I take away this characteristic, what's left? What is Bandos without his drive for war? What do we know about Bandos apart from that he wants war? He likes to cause it, but not necessarily between gods - mortals will do (as evidenced by the goblin tribes). He likes watching war, but do we know of any attack he's started? As far as I know, he always exploits existing conflicts and turns them violent.

 

Is there any reason to suspect that Bandos aims for anything but turning competition violent?

 

 

 

It's true that high quality fiction (which I never really took RS for) has more of a focus on gray characters; but even high quality fiction needs a few black and white characters. Even Shakespeare's Hamlet had a Polonius, someone who was just immoral. Given that Jagex has went out of their way to make several of the other Gods gray, I think it's entirely appropriate that they reserved one God as simply being single-minded and evil. It's a nice contrast, and it ensures that gray concept isn't overused. How many Gods are there? They can't all just be sophisticated characters who are dangling between good and evil -- it would come off as too trite and it would probably fail if they tried to make every character into a Saradomin or Zamorak mold (the archetypal gray characters in RS). 

 

There are plenty of people that are single-minded or dedicate their whole life to one thing. I don't think that's unusual. 

 

He has been known to defeat large armies by himself. So I presume he's not just into being a spectator and actually likes being in war.

[Alg]

Then what's the point of calling it a gray conflict, and saying that every side has its own strengths and faults?

[Platinum_Myr]

Black/white characters can only have external conflict. Gray characters can have internal conflict. For some stories a strong character with a single defining theme is better. Other stories aren't able to be told with them. But the characters always need to be well defined and have strong themes. Bandos` theme is pretty evil and many people dislike that. So putting him up for a death match is going to likely get him killed.

[helring]

Then what's the point of calling it a gray conflict, and saying that every side has its own strengths and faults?

 

A conflict can still be gray even if one of the 8+ sides is completely evil/good. Overall there is still plenty of gray in the new God Wars, just not with Bandos.

[Miss Lioness]

Is there anyone else who is annoyed by reading Gray as Grey ?

[helring]

Is there anyone else who is annoyed by reading Gray as Grey ?

 

No real difference, they both denote the same colour and I use them interchangeably for the most part without even thinking.

[Yoko Kurama]

Then what's the point of calling it a gray conflict, and saying that every side has its own strengths and faults?

 

But it isn't a gray conflict (Bandos VS. Armadyl, the overall God Wars are arguably a gray conflict). It has been established that Bandos is a fairly evil character. That doesn't mean he isn't sophisticated or slightly interesting; but it does mean he is a 'black/white' character. The same applies to Armadyl. He's basically a good guy. He's not as well developed, sophisticated or interesting as Guthix (the ultimate and most well-developed good guy in RS), but he's certainly a good guy. That doesn't mean Armadyl isn't interesting, but he is a 'black/white' type character. 

[Miss Lioness]

And besides, we make him evil. We are in a way all pacifists. We all are disgusted by war which makes war bad and in turn makes Bandos evil.

[Sy_Accursed]

 

Is there anyone else who is annoyed by reading Gray as Grey ?

 

No real difference, they both denote the same colour and I use them interchangeably for the most part without even thinking.

 

 

Yeah its just an American vs English thing.

[Alg]

 

 

Is there anyone else who is annoyed by reading Gray as Grey ?

No real difference, they both denote the same colour and I use them interchangeably for the most part without even thinking.

Yeah its just an American vs English thing.

I was under the impression that even then it was sort of inconsistent. You see them both somewhat equally in the States.

[Quyneax]

You see both in the States, but according to Wiktionary, only grey is used in the UK (probably still mixes up enough).

[jayc3399]

I've never seen it as Gray except for someones last name. Its always been grey and I live in Canada.

[Sy_Accursed]

I was always under the impression states side it was supposed to be gray at all times, but due to imports and international stuff they see grey sometimes and get confused and end up using both even though grey isn't really their word. I suppose it could be a regional thing though for you guys, all I know is for Brit side its always grey other than some surnames being Gray whilst in states lingo grey = gray.

 

Kinda like a reversal of the stereotype where you always see Americans getting all higher-than-thou grammar nazi when they see tyres or colour etc. on forums yet you never see Brits/every other english speaker having any trouble knowing the tyres/tires and colour/color stuff.

[HunterDexter]

Nor do we, the non-English-speaking community.

[helring]

I was always under the impression states side it was supposed to be gray at all times, but due to imports and international stuff they see grey sometimes and get confused and end up using both even though grey isn't really their word. I suppose it could be a regional thing though for you guys, all I know is for Brit side its always grey other than some surnames being Gray whilst in states lingo grey = gray.

 

Kinda like a reversal of the stereotype where you always see Americans getting all higher-than-thou grammar nazi when they see tyres or colour etc. on forums yet you never see Brits/every other english speaker having any trouble knowing the tyres/tires and colour/color stuff.

 

Too many years playing runescape. I have to use spell-check now on all my essays to remove the extra "u"s from my words.