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Legacy Mode – Launching Monday 14th (+Legacy Discussion)

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Good to see that 80% victory is securing great support for users and not a mere 25% intending to use it with 29% committing to niche uses that rely on that content actually being resurrected and legacy only worlds (since eoc would trounce them)


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The only thing frustrating to me is that there is a clear line of communication between OSRS and the community on content development. What im getting at is that i wish rs3 community would have a larger role in content development. Dont get me wrong - polling options and the occasional content pull from play concepts is good. But what i see from OSRS is great.

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lol

 

Well at least I know I consistently voted NO on Legacy and Not at all on here. I think this is a much better representation of the true interest in Legacy, even though this is still a little inflated in my opinion.


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The only thing frustrating to me is that there is a clear line of communication between OSRS and the community on content development. What im getting at is that i wish rs3 community would have a larger role in content development. Dont get me wrong - polling options and the occasional content pull from play concepts is good. But what i see from OSRS is great.

Sadly thats pie in the sky thinking.

 

It works for OSRS because it has a tiny dev team with a small player base so things can have a 100% unified approach and pretty much every voice can be heard and consensus can be reached.

 

For RS3 it can never work the same because theres so many more conflicting voices, far too many for them all to be heard, plus theres so many more devs all working on different things at different times.

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The only thing frustrating to me is that there is a clear line of communication between OSRS and the community on content development. What im getting at is that i wish rs3 community would have a larger role in content development. Dont get me wrong - polling options and the occasional content pull from play concepts is good. But what i see from OSRS is great.

Sadly thats pie in the sky thinking.

 

It works for OSRS because it has a tiny dev team with a small player base so things can have a 100% unified approach and pretty much every voice can be heard and consensus can be reached.

 

For RS3 it can never work the same because theres so many more conflicting voices, far too many for them all to be heard, plus theres so many more devs all working on different things at different times.

B-but i like pie...

 

:(




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The only thing frustrating to me is that there is a clear line of communication between OSRS and the community on content development. What im getting at is that i wish rs3 community would have a larger role in content development. Dont get me wrong - polling options and the occasional content pull from play concepts is good. But what i see from OSRS is great.

Sadly thats pie in the sky thinking.

 

It works for OSRS because it has a tiny dev team with a small player base so things can have a 100% unified approach and pretty much every voice can be heard and consensus can be reached.

 

For RS3 it can never work the same because theres so many more conflicting voices, far too many for them all to be heard, plus theres so many more devs all working on different things at different times.

 

 

Yes, the wilderness is an awesome place with many spoils in RS3

 

wait...

 

no


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Because activity levels of the wilderness are of course entirely relevant to whether or not RS3 can successfully utilise the dev:community dynamic of input present in OSRS in relation to the issues of player volumes and dev volumes?


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It was voted for by the public to introduce it in the current state to the live game.

Democracy is a [bleep].

Well yeah, the choices were "introduce it right now" or "throw it away". JagexPollsTM

 

From a selfish perspective at least, it will be nice to be 126 combat without every "noob" matching max level with just a couple 99s ;).  Fun fun.

Basically all that changes is that you need 99 HP and 98 prayer on top of your two EoC 99s... I'm going to be 125 F2P combat with 86 strength, a couple of levels from the latter requirement... Basically exemplifying everything that the people who voted for 138 thought it would fix O:)

 

Really, 125 combat with only 86 strength?  I thought 99 Attack, Defense, and Strength would only get you to 114-ish, and then one level from each 8 prayer levels...and actually you only need 96 or 94 prayer (I forget) if you take advantage of the free 1->5 summoning.  Unless that doesn't get counted on the F2P side...


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They added more weight to the c formula for ranged and mage

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I'm wondering how those conclusions are reached in terms of combat level and exemplifying blah blah...

 

So we have (1.3x + Def + Hp + Pray/2 + Summ/2)/4

Based on the 'two eoc 99s, 99 hp, 98 pray' 86 str and only a couple of levels short of later (pray) lets assume 99 att, 86 str, 99 hp, 1 def, 96 pray, 1 summ (since we are talking f2p old max and all and no mention was made of needing it)

 

((1.3*(99+86)) + 99 + 99 + (96/2) + (1/2))/4 = 121

 

Hmmm nope not quite 125.

In fact you need 27 - 34 summ to get the desired 125 outcome.

Oh and if you plug in the optimum 98 pray with the 1 sum you only get 122 with that 86 str in there.

 

In fact with the 1 summ to mimic 'true' f2p:

You must have 97+ pray with all other 99s

98+ Hp with all other 99s

98+ Def with all other 99s

97+ Att with all other 99s

97+ Str with all other 99s

99 Magic/Ranged with all other 99s

To achieve lvl 126

 

To be 125 in 'true' f2p:

97+ Magic/Ranged with all other 99s

95+ Att with all other 99s

95+ Str with all other 99s

94+ hp with all other 99s

94+ def with all other 99s

89+ pray with all other 99s

 

The idea that in the context of f2p alone you can be near 'max' with so many levels missing without making it up via summ is daft.

Heck using the max level 5 summ f2p can have you need 85 pray, 92 hp/def, 94 att/str and 97 mage/range with all other 99s to hit that 125.

98 mage/range, 97 att/str, 96 hp/def and 93 pray are for the actual 126 old max

 

Long story short, whilst obviously there are hidey holes for pures it is ludicrous to imply you can achieve 126 f2p max with such large margins as str still being in the 80s because that would require summoning to make up a lot of the slack that it simply cannot be doing in f2p.

 

Of course if the 86 str was in reference to obtaining tht cmb lvl via 99 ranged or magic its a slightly different ballpark, but still stupidly misleading in implications since we all know combat is derived from your most potent style and therefore its no shocker a maxed ranger or mage could be quite high cmb whilst lacking str lvls.

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Because activity levels of the wilderness are of course entirely relevant to whether or not RS3 can successfully utilise the dev:community dynamic of input present in OSRS in relation to the issues of player volumes and dev volumes?

No it's an empty desolate place which nobody likes to enter. It doesn't have to be active, I just want spoils as decided on the runefest video:P. The ninja team, mod daze/pi are doing fantastic, perhaps even integer;), work but in terms of the combat system the whole HQ seems to disagree with eachother or something and therefore falling back on the already rifled community seems a bit conflicting xD;

i'm just intimidated at the magnitutde of work the OSRS team churns out so yes i'm biased however most of my fellow PvPers agree upon EoC should be here to stay so I don't understand they want to cater to older players whilst 07 is up. Priorities just seem oddly divided.


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Legacy combat is frankly a step backwards, as is 138 and all that. It appears they lack the idea or drive to move on from their past mistakes. I have no idea how the poll gathered 80% support, perhaps a decision made simply on the basis of a Yes/No poll is appropriate. I would personally applaud them if they come up with something new, for better or worse, as opposed to reverting back or drawing old ideas. Given the post above depicting the quick poll on how likely people will use Legacy Combat, it may just represent another failure on the developer's part - whether that's because people think Legacy isn't ready for launch, not appropriate for the game at this stage or that they were among the 20%.

 

Given what I understand about the changes that will be bought on by the Legacy Combat and associated update, there isn't really anything worthwhile to motivate OSRS players (who were only really opposed to EoC rather than the entire post 07 evolution) to return to the live game; for on/off players, one or two weeks is probably most they will spend before their self-imposed exiles.

 

As things stand, I am excited to see what effect (if any) the Legacy combat update will bring to the game, happy for people who were anticipating its implementation and sympathetic with those who are against its inception.


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So I have 24 hours to raise my dungeoneering from 101 to 120 in order to avoid the xp penalty from being in the 90-126 range, which I conveniently ignored the past couple years because JaGEx forgot to update the penalty in EOC (as in 90 - 138 combat still got penalized, but 139+ didn't).

 

 

There were quite a few things I didn't want with EOC that has either already been fixed, or this won't fix. However, since I'm not a negative nancy, here is what I'm looking forward to:

I'm excited that my strength level matters again. I'm excited that my hitpoints matter again. I'm excited that interpretting my hits and my health will be easier. I'm excited there is a chance the F2P PKing scene will return.


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Did they not entirely remove the xp penalty a while ago now as part of their ninja-type fixes?

 

Also - legacy isn't doing anything to make strength matter more as a stat. Its function will remain identical as it is now. Also I fail to see how legacy does anything for interpreting health and hits, basically all it does is divide things by ten. Also hitpoints do matter at present - 3960hp comes from it afterall, the weighting is just being shifted so that a full 9900 is put onto your level.


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Given the post above depicting the quick poll on how likely people will use Legacy Combat, it may just represent another failure on the developer's part - whether that's because people think Legacy isn't ready for launch, not appropriate for the game at this stage or that they were among the 20%.

Well, as of right now, if the quick poll is anything to go by, over half of the players would be using Legacy mode for one reason or another.

 

There are many updates that have been released which much less than half of the players used, for whatever reason. Should we consider those updates failures as well?

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Given the post above depicting the quick poll on how likely people will use Legacy Combat, it may just represent another failure on the developer's part - whether that's because people think Legacy isn't ready for launch, not appropriate for the game at this stage or that they were among the 20%.

Well, as of right now, if the quick poll is anything to go by, over half of the players would be using Legacy mode for one reason or another.

 

There are many updates that have been released which much less than half of the players used, for whatever reason. Should we consider those updates failures as well?

 

But of course only 28% actually committed to using it whole scale 31% committed only to niche uses - one use that rely on a specific game play element that is currently quite dead to be resurrected to be viable, and the other that is likely to tank quite nicely once the metagame word gets out that, as expected, eoc beats legacy for xp:hr etc.

 

Heck if we assume 'slayer and skilling' works and only loses say the odd 6% and the pking side fails thats only 38% uptake of legacy.

 

Its quite bad percentages really considering this is a pre-launch opinion and logic would dictate post launch a fair portion of the 'will uses' will give up on it because actually usage never quite meets pre-launch poll figures especially when this is barely over 50% suggesting they'll use it already down a solid 30% from people who supported it (a figure that had already dropped by ~10% from the initial poll)

 

Legacy looks set to fall into a 30:70 usage split at best after reality sets in, probably closer to 20:80 or 10:90 in my view.

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Did they not entirely remove the xp penalty a while ago now as part of their ninja-type fixes?

If you can quote it, I'll believe you. However, recently I've experienced 1/2 xp dungeons with combat averages right in that range. And it hasn't been one odd dungeon or anything (with the same group, I'll have a series of low xp dungeons), and it hasn't been because of leeching (had high experience and low experience with leeches, only thing that mattered was group combat average).

 

 

Also I fail to see how legacy does anything for interpreting health and hits, basically all it does is divide things by ten.

Do you understand why the metric system has so many prefixes?

 

Also hitpoints do matter at present - 3960hp comes from it afterall, the weighting is just being shifted so that a full 9900 is put onto your level.

My hitpoints will be worth 150% more for each incremental level, and I'll have the same hitpoints regardless of my armor. Going from 900 hitpoints to the equivalent of 500 hitpoints wasn't particuarly pleasant for me.


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and the other that is likely to tank quite nicely once the metagame word gets out that, as expected, eoc beats legacy for xp:hr etc.

 

Depends where you are.  Anywhere chinning or barraging takes place, Legacy gives a huge amount more xp/hr currently.

Slayer, perhaps it's debatable or depends how often you would normally ult.

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Also I fail to see how legacy does anything for interpreting health and hits, basically all it does is divide things by ten.

Do you understand why the metric system has so many prefixes?

 

Do you understand that dividing by 10 or times by it does not remotely alter the difficulty in understanding hits and health?

Hitting 1000 on a monster with 10000 health is just as easy to interpret as hitting 100 on something with 1000 health.

The point stands its not a change that remotely alters how health and hits can be understood as they are exactly same proportionally.

 

 

Also hitpoints do matter at present - 3960hp comes from it afterall, the weighting is just being shifted so that a full 9900 is put onto your level.

My hitpoints will be worth 150% more for each incremental level, and I'll have the same hitpoints regardless of my armor. Going from 900 hitpoints to the equivalent of 500 hitpoints wasn't particuarly pleasant for me.

 

Which is of course a valid point and not one I disputed. All I disputed with the notion that legacy makes hitpoints matter and that they some how do not matter now. They do matter because they account for around 1/2 health even at the very top end, they will just matter more once they account for 100% in most cases, and around 80-90% in the top end.

 

 

 

and the other that is likely to tank quite nicely once the metagame word gets out that, as expected, eoc beats legacy for xp:hr etc.

 

Depends where you are.  Anywhere chinning or barraging takes place, Legacy gives a huge amount more xp/hr currently.

Slayer, perhaps it's debatable or depends how often you would normally ult.

 

Very true, it was a generalised statement of course because niche uses always existing - just like at present where momentum is metagame useless in general, but holds niche uses for chin and barrage training.


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Hitting 1000 on a monster with 10000 health is just as easy to interpret as hitting 100 on something with 1000 health.

No, it is not just as easy to interpret, especially when there are half a dozen other things you need to be doing at the same time.

 

But I'm surprised you're arguing about something so petty as my opinion.


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If I found it harder to interpret numbers just because they have an extra zero on the end I'd be worrying about where my education failed and how to fix it.

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If I found it harder to interpret numbers just because they have an extra zero on the end I'd be worrying about where my education failed and how to fix it.

Really, Sy? Really?

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If I found it harder to interpret numbers just because they have an extra zero on the end I'd be worrying about where my education failed and how to fix it.

Really, Sy? Really?

 

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I would like to point out, that you can use "legacy" in EOC mode, just by using momentum.

That way, you aren't barred from using ultimates which help out..

 

Also, question.

 

In legacy mode, you start out with 100% special attack, but in EOC mode, special attack is drained from adr, so you start with it negative, right?


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In legacy mode, you start out with 100% special attack, but in EOC mode, special attack is drained from adr, so you start with it negative, right?

Sounds about right. Which leaves me wondering if Legacy /may/ be the best dps for short-term burst damage. Past an initial spec or 2, I'm sure EOC will remain supreme. But for something that doesn't have very high lp or perhaps a larger group?

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