Recent trend to include PvM into Comp Cape, i.e. Rush of Blood [Split]

[Alg]

TL;DR, your logic is flawed since it starts from an invalid premise.

See... The thing I don't get about the whole "It's the completionist cape" argument is that the trimmed completionist cape exists, and at this point a fair number of its requirements are less rigorous than those on the regular cape. It's an inconsistency: titles from the likes of Rush of Blood and Soul Reaper are required for the main completionist cape when other minigames, post-quest rewards, and even whole miniquests are not.

[Yoko Kurama]

 

TL;DR, your logic is flawed since it starts from an invalid premise.

See... The thing I don't get about the whole "It's the completionist cape" argument is that the trimmed completionist cape exists, and at this point a fair number of its requirements are less rigorous than those on the regular cape. It's an inconsistency: titles from the likes of Rush of Blood and Soul Reaper are required for the main completionist cape when other minigames, post-quest rewards, and even whole miniquests are not.

 

 

I would not say that the sole purpose of Trim is to have requirements which are more rigorous than Comp's. It's purpose (well, one of them) is to include all sorts of requirements that are peripheral (whereas Comp's requirement is to include the main or major requirements).

[Youmu]

 

 

TL;DR, your logic is flawed since it starts from an invalid premise.

See... The thing I don't get about the whole "It's the completionist cape" argument is that the trimmed completionist cape exists, and at this point a fair number of its requirements are less rigorous than those on the regular cape. It's an inconsistency: titles from the likes of Rush of Blood and Soul Reaper are required for the main completionist cape when other minigames, post-quest rewards, and even whole miniquests are not.

 

 

I would not say that the sole purpose of Trim is to have requirements which are more rigorous than Comp's. It's purpose (well, one of them) is to include all sorts of requirements that are peripheral (whereas Comp's requirement is to include the main or major requirements).

 

Well, mauling Vorago and surviving Rots used to be trimmed reqs before Soul Reaper came along...

 

Kiln has been comp req since release of the cape and I still know people who can't do it :rolleyes:

[Sy_Accursed]

 

I find the arguments that because leeches exist allowing anyone to do it and that getting into proper teams without good gear is a community issue not jagex kinda interesting stances to take in terms of whether a req is appropriate.

 

I do not think it really is good to have things doable for some with limits beyond their control just because leeching groups exist. I mean of course whether people with limits beyond their control like net issues should be able to do it is a whole separate tangent of its own, but it just seems rather paradoxical to me to both argue that the req should be there so people show skill and at the same time argue that its ok because if you lack skill you can just leech it.

 

And with the 'community issue' one I find it interesting how some how Jagex when developing a massively multiplayer game is not expected to consider how the community functions in relation to the game design. I mean sure it's not something they directly control, but as a good game dev would you not consider that community function as part of what to build your designs against?

 

Just find them kinda odd jarring arguments that don't really make sense in terms of solid reasons in the bigger argument.

 

 

In other news: I may just put my head through a wall with the rush of blood req now. ~50 attempts down cannot best 16 waves even with incorporating all the tips and guidance found around the place. The only way I can possibly better my performance now is with t90 gear I can't afford.

 

The reason you think it doesn't make sense is because you are using invalid reasoning.

 

See, the requirements aren't there because it's possible to get it through leeching, and so it stays (your false assumption).

 

The requirements are there because it's a COMPLETIONIST cape. And *COMPLETING* includes some things which are time consuming, and some things which are hard.

 

And if you honestly can't do something because of IRL issues or a bad PC, it sucks. I know. But it doesn't matter. You don't get into higher raiding guilds in WoW if you can't perform. You don't get into LCS in league if you have a bad PC. You don't get some jobs IRL if you can't do them. It sucks. Life isn't fair. But balancing a game around people who can't do certain things is absolutely one of the most stupid decisions you can make. If you make the game so easy that anyone can do anything, there is nothing left. Not everyone will be able to do everything, and that is ok.

 

TL;DR, your logic is flawed since it starts from an invalid premise.

 

 

Your arguments have nothing to do with the points I raised.

 

I was commenting on the paradox of arguing that they req should be there so people have to have skill whilst also arguing it was ok because people without skill can leech it.

 

This issue has nothing to do with whether or not the req should be there, it is purely an observation of the incompatibly of reasoning it should be there for skill at the same instant as reasoning it is ok because it can be leeched to bypass skill.

 

 

 

 

In other news: I may just put my head through a wall with the rush of blood req now. ~50 attempts down cannot best 16 waves even with incorporating all the tips and guidance found around the place. The only way I can possibly better my performance now is with t90 gear I can't afford.

Well, you can think of buying a t90 weapon as another buyable skill ...

 

 

This. if you're a high-end player (i.e., going for Comp), even if you do the most minimal ways of money-making (QBD, Frosties. God Wars etc.), you should at the very least be able to afford Drygores and Ascensions. If you can't make that sort of money, then either, you don't have Overloads, Ancient Curses, high summoning, or you're doing something wrong which could easily be rectified (like you're just doing the wrong things to make money). If it's the former, i.e., you don't have expensive buyable skills like herblore/prayer/summoning at a high level, well, then you won't be eligible for Comp anyways, so there's no problem.

 

In your case, it seems to be the latter - you're doing the wrong things to make money.

 

 

Interesting how the 'most minimal' not 'wrong' ways of making money are all, shockingly pvm based, and therefore not really viable for people openly bad at pvm.

 

Also it is utter nonsense to suggest you cannot get high stats without having money to begin with, there are free or cheap ways to do all the expensive skills if you are happy to not play the meta route. Also I never said I did not have any t90 gear, only that I did not have the t90 gear I would need to improve my performance in this instance. But alas this is rather tangental to the main discussion of this thread, I just made a small note as it touched upon pvm and comp reqs and happened to be a present concern at the time of posting.

[Alg]

 

 

TL;DR, your logic is flawed since it starts from an invalid premise.

See... The thing I don't get about the whole "It's the completionist cape" argument is that the trimmed completionist cape exists, and at this point a fair number of its requirements are less rigorous than those on the regular cape. It's an inconsistency: titles from the likes of Rush of Blood and Soul Reaper are required for the main completionist cape when other minigames, post-quest rewards, and even whole miniquests are not.

I would not say that the sole purpose of Trim is to have requirements which are more rigorous than Comp's. It's purpose (well, one of them) is to include all sorts of requirements that are peripheral (whereas Comp's requirement is to include the main or major requirements).

Things like the Annihilator or Clan titles seem fairly arbitrary, though, especially when Vyrelord is on the trimmed cape. Likewise, there's a pretty significant overlap between The Reaper and The Famous, but both are main requirements.

[stonewall337]

 

TL;DR, your logic is flawed since it starts from an invalid premise.

See... The thing I don't get about the whole "It's the completionist cape" argument is that the trimmed completionist cape exists, and at this point a fair number of its requirements are less rigorous than those on the regular cape. It's an inconsistency: titles from the likes of Rush of Blood and Soul Reaper are required for the main completionist cape when other minigames, post-quest rewards, and even whole miniquests are not.

 

 

If you really want to get technical you can *never* complete the game. Thus there are the requirements, with trim having more picky requirements. 

 

Maxing can easily be argued as needed for completing the game, while doing 25 chimp ice deliveries, not so much. That is why the later is a trim req.

 

Killing all bosses is far and above thematic with "completing" the game, compared to other trim requirements like chimp ice or making a zaros symbol in Char's cave.

 

See, even in this the reason you view it as an inconsistency isn't because it is inconsistent, but because you start from a false premise, that trim requirements should be harder than normal ones. That's not the case. The reason for the difference is that trim has aspects of the game which aren't viewed as being thematically necessary for "completing" the game for purpose of the comp cape, but are for the trimmed.

 

But saying that killing bosses should be only a trimmed comp cape is like saying you shouldn't need 120 dg for comp cape, since skill "mastery" is at 99. Or else like saying you need 120 in all skills since otherwise you havn't completed" the game.

[stonewall337]

 

 

I find the arguments that because leeches exist allowing anyone to do it and that getting into proper teams without good gear is a community issue not jagex kinda interesting stances to take in terms of whether a req is appropriate.

 

I do not think it really is good to have things doable for some with limits beyond their control just because leeching groups exist. I mean of course whether people with limits beyond their control like net issues should be able to do it is a whole separate tangent of its own, but it just seems rather paradoxical to me to both argue that the req should be there so people show skill and at the same time argue that its ok because if you lack skill you can just leech it.

 

And with the 'community issue' one I find it interesting how some how Jagex when developing a massively multiplayer game is not expected to consider how the community functions in relation to the game design. I mean sure it's not something they directly control, but as a good game dev would you not consider that community function as part of what to build your designs against?

 

Just find them kinda odd jarring arguments that don't really make sense in terms of solid reasons in the bigger argument.

 

 

In other news: I may just put my head through a wall with the rush of blood req now. ~50 attempts down cannot best 16 waves even with incorporating all the tips and guidance found around the place. The only way I can possibly better my performance now is with t90 gear I can't afford.

 

The reason you think it doesn't make sense is because you are using invalid reasoning.

 

See, the requirements aren't there because it's possible to get it through leeching, and so it stays (your false assumption).

 

The requirements are there because it's a COMPLETIONIST cape. And *COMPLETING* includes some things which are time consuming, and some things which are hard.

 

And if you honestly can't do something because of IRL issues or a bad PC, it sucks. I know. But it doesn't matter. You don't get into higher raiding guilds in WoW if you can't perform. You don't get into LCS in league if you have a bad PC. You don't get some jobs IRL if you can't do them. It sucks. Life isn't fair. But balancing a game around people who can't do certain things is absolutely one of the most stupid decisions you can make. If you make the game so easy that anyone can do anything, there is nothing left. Not everyone will be able to do everything, and that is ok.

 

TL;DR, your logic is flawed since it starts from an invalid premise.

 

 

Your arguments have nothing to do with the points I raised.

 

I was commenting on the paradox of arguing that they req should be there so people have skill whilst also arguing it was ok because people without skill can leech it.

 

This issue has nothing to do with whether or not the req should be there, it is purely an observation of the incompatibly of reasoning it should be there for skill at the same instant as reasoning it is ok because it can be leeched to bypass skill.

 

 

It's known as a double bind in debate. You can read more on it here. http://www.cross-x.com/topic/25941-the-double-bind/

 

Basically, even if your argument were true, and it isn't, I have an answer to show why it's bad/false anyway.

 

Oh, and it seems you don't know what a paradox is. Even if what I said were a paradox (not saying it is or isn't) that doesn't make it false. It's another double bind. The term you were looking for is contradictory. 

 

A paradox is a statement that appears to be contradictory, but might yet be true. 

 

Essentially, to summarize my argument. 

 

1.) The PvM requirements are good because they promote skill. 

 

2.) Even if you can leech some aspects of the requirements, that doesn't remove all skill from all PvM requirements.

 

3.) Even if it did, it's still good for another reason (it is part of completing the game)

 

4.) If you can leech and that takes no skill, you wouldn't mind the requirement since it would be simple anyway.

 

In essence, I have three answers to your claim, your claim starts from a false paradox, you're in at least 1 double bind, my impact is greater, I wouldn't even need a 2NR to win this. But it is fun, even if it's easy.

[Saradomin_Mage]

[stonewall337]

 

It's fun, even if it's too simple. I miss debate :(

[Sy_Accursed]

I still fail to see any relevance to your arguments against my point, since my point was merely an observation of an element of the debate I found interesting and held no pro or con stance on the comp reqs existence.

 

I should clarify as well, as you seem to be a bit lost on my usage of paradox, that I'm certainly not supposing it is paradoxical that a requirement can both require skill and be leech. They are of course both quite possible to co-exist. I was only commenting on how the argument that a req should be there because the cape should require skill to obtain is rather paradoxical to the argument that it is okay as it can be done without any skill via leeching because they two proposed reasonings are mutually exclusive in many ways. One supposes the requirement should be there to impose the need for skill whilst the other proposes the requirement makes no difference as leeching means it imposes no skill.

 

Perhaps paradoxical is a bit of a hyperbolic choice of word for the matter, but it conveys the meaning all the same.

 

You can of course keep arguing back but I fail to see a road to 'winning' when I'm not actually trying to argue anything and only making an observation of the arguments presented.

[stonewall337]

I still fail to see any relevance to your arguments against my point, since my point was merely an observation of an element of the debate I found interesting and held no pro or con stance on the comp reqs existence.

 

I should clarify as well, as you seem to be a bit lost on my usage of paradox, that I'm certainly not supposing it is paradoxical that a requirement can both require skill and be leech. They are of course both quite possible to co-exist. I was only commenting on how the argument that a req should be there because the cape should require skill to obtain is rather paradoxical to the argument that it is okay as it can be done without any skill via leeching because they two proposed reasonings are mutually exclusive in many ways. One supposes the requirement should be there to impose the need for skill whilst the other proposes the requirement makes no difference as leeching means it imposes no skill.

 

Perhaps paradoxical is a bit of a hyperbolic choice of word for the matter, but it conveys the meaning all the same.

 

You can of course keep arguing back but I fail to see a road to 'winning' when I'm not actually trying to argue anything and only making an observation of the arguments presented.

 

What if I told you...observations could be false, wrong, illogical, or flawed? 

 

The whole point is your *observations* were illogical.

[Sy_Accursed]

You are very welcome to think my observation was illogical, but at the end of the day it was my observation of an element of the debate I found interesting. I'm not all that bothered whether or not anyone beyond my own mind deems it logical or reasonable or w/e. It is simply a thought from my own mind that I found interesting and chose to point it out as such. I didn't put it out there to be argued or debated. I just put it out there as an expression of something I found intriguing with no relevance to the overall debate of the thread that only happened to occur in this thread because it was this thread where the forms of argument occurred.

 

Anyway since I seem to have been rather drawn into this thread I may as well outline where I have fallen in terms of the whole requirements debate:

 

1) I think before these pvm changes came to comp there was already more pvm-based content on the comp reqs than most on the pro-side of the argument admit and it weakens their arguments to deride the cape as having had no pvm and having been pure grind. Certainly it was not top flight pvm, but it was there to a certain degree.

 

2) From a personal stand point I would've preferred Reaper never came to the cape as I am beyond awful at pvm.

 

3) From an objective standpoint it is not the worst notion for pvm to play a bigger role in the capes reqs; it is after all a core part of the game whether or not we all chose to engage with it.

 

4) I think Rots and Rago were a mistake to move from trim reqs to the main cape. I think because they were already trim reqs it kinda felt like Jagex were retconning precedent by moving them over. I also feel as definite team content they don't entirely fit with the general solo-ness that comp previously held. Plus I feel like in this instance they could've reasonably catered to the 'can't beat thorough no fault of their own' groups by not including these bosses.

 

5) That being said now they are on there, for better or for worse, I think the ship has sailed and there is little point in trying to take them off. There is a solid case for them to be there, just as much as there is for them to not, and with the ship already sailed it'd be to damaging to try and go back now.

 

6) I think Araaxor is a bit of a hot button issue that is hard to truly judge on as it hasn't been in-game long enough for the full trickle down effect of setups to kill it welfare style to have been recognised and well documented to the same degree as other bosses. However it does appear well within the bounds of reasonable to kill and doesn't touch on the whole team or not issue of rago and rots so with the reqs as they are I see little cause for it to be a special case.

 

7) I think Jagex were right to not go ahead with taking Araaxor off the elf city comp req slayer thingy. As I noted when I first commented on them proposing it doing so on the grounds of 'some people can't do it through no fault of their own' would have just opened up a whole can of worms of why was this true for the elf city req but not when the same case was raised against the reaper req.

 

8) Rush of Blood is a bit more luck based than I'd like, but its probably for the best to not amend it in anyway until after the summon ai and elf batch 2 pots impact has been seen. Though after then if it still remains so luck based I feel like it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to maybe add 1 or 2 more possible spawns to platinum of monsters that are viable for making up some time on if you suffer at the hands of glacor and tds spawns. That way the focus of beating it would be more about whether or not you have the skill to do so and less about whether or not the spawns were nice enough to land on stuff that allows for 20 waves to be feasibly reached in the time limit.

[Yoko Kurama]

 

 

 

TL;DR, your logic is flawed since it starts from an invalid premise.

See... The thing I don't get about the whole "It's the completionist cape" argument is that the trimmed completionist cape exists, and at this point a fair number of its requirements are less rigorous than those on the regular cape. It's an inconsistency: titles from the likes of Rush of Blood and Soul Reaper are required for the main completionist cape when other minigames, post-quest rewards, and even whole miniquests are not.

I would not say that the sole purpose of Trim is to have requirements which are more rigorous than Comp's. It's purpose (well, one of them) is to include all sorts of requirements that are peripheral (whereas Comp's requirement is to include the main or major requirements).

Things like the Annihilator or Clan titles seem fairly arbitrary, though, especially when Vyrelord is on the trimmed cape. Likewise, there's a pretty significant overlap between The Reaper and The Famous, but both are main requirements.

 

 

I would agree that the Annihilator title was pretty arbitrary as a requirement. The Clan Titles, although, I don't like them, in theory are supposed to be sort of quasi-task sets (you prove to important people in a significant area of the game that you're 'worthy' of their respect). A lot of requirements are arbitrary, as is much of the game. Like why get 99 in skills where the level 99 doesn't even unlock any tangible benefit? Shouldn't the mastery stop at whatever level allows you to do the last/best thing in that skill? That's another discussion for another day though.

 

So yeah, a lot of it is arbitrary, but the Comp and Trim, now at least seem to have certain themes about them. They aren't necessarily always consistent, but they are there.

[stonewall337]

 

 

 

 

TL;DR, your logic is flawed since it starts from an invalid premise.

See... The thing I don't get about the whole "It's the completionist cape" argument is that the trimmed completionist cape exists, and at this point a fair number of its requirements are less rigorous than those on the regular cape. It's an inconsistency: titles from the likes of Rush of Blood and Soul Reaper are required for the main completionist cape when other minigames, post-quest rewards, and even whole miniquests are not.

I would not say that the sole purpose of Trim is to have requirements which are more rigorous than Comp's. It's purpose (well, one of them) is to include all sorts of requirements that are peripheral (whereas Comp's requirement is to include the main or major requirements).

Things like the Annihilator or Clan titles seem fairly arbitrary, though, especially when Vyrelord is on the trimmed cape. Likewise, there's a pretty significant overlap between The Reaper and The Famous, but both are main requirements.

 

 

I would agree that the Annihilator title was pretty arbitrary as a requirement. The Clan Titles, although, I don't like them, in theory are supposed to be sort of quasi-task sets (you prove to important people in a significant area of the game that you're 'worthy' of their respect). A lot of requirements are arbitrary, as is much of the game. Like why get 99 in skills where the level 99 doesn't even unlock any tangible benefit? Shouldn't the mastery stop at whatever level allows you to do the last/best thing in that skill? That's another discussion for another day though.

 

So yeah, a lot of it is arbitrary, but the Comp and Trim, now at least seem to have certain themes about them. They aren't necessarily always consistent, but they are there.

 

Well, we can agree that some things are arbitrary, sure. Like I said, you can't technically "complete" the game anyway.

 

But there are some things which it's pretty obvious are needed for completion. Completing all quests and tasks, maxing all skills, killing all bosses are basically the ones that have the best reason for keeping as "completionist" requirements. 

[Alg]

I would agree that the Annihilator title was pretty arbitrary as a requirement. The Clan Titles, although, I don't like them, in theory are supposed to be sort of quasi-task sets (you prove to important people in a significant area of the game that you're 'worthy' of their respect). A lot of requirements are arbitrary, as is much of the game. Like why get 99 in skills where the level 99 doesn't even unlock any tangible benefit? Shouldn't the mastery stop at whatever level allows you to do the last/best thing in that skill? That's another discussion for another day though.

 

So yeah, a lot of it is arbitrary, but the Comp and Trim, now at least seem to have certain themes about them. They aren't necessarily always consistent, but they are there.

For what it's worth, looking at the requirement list has led me to believe that they'd probably be better suited to knocking some of the trim requirements down than booting regular requirements up, simply because they've been there at the start but are sort of outdated now. Same reason they're bringing down boss requirements, really, they reflect the current direction of the game.

 

Part of the issue might be the bias toward high-end combat, really. They're knocking down boss tasks but not miniquest and lore requirements that are pretty similar in practice to newer ones on the main cape.

[spoiler=Some ideas]

Trim to Regular:

Vyrelord (Same logic as Elf Titles: you're strengthening your character among a significant faction, except with perhaps more story significance)

Scabarite Notes (Lore book, like all of the godly ones)

Barbarian notes (see above)

Dragonkin notes (above)

Sheep Shearer (miniquest)

Witch's Potion (miniquest)

 

The only one I'd think to move up to Trim is The Famous, simply because it's redundant alongside The Reaper: you have to both beat every boss at least once and beat every solo boss in a row with debuffs... which kind of strikes me as being like that thing where games don't give you the achievement for beating normal mode after you beat hard mode.

Maybe Annihilator because it's just one of those 'do it for the sake of doing it' things that makes more sense as a trim requirement.

also move thalassus to trim because [bleep] deadliest catch

 

 

 

Thoughts?

[baileydafrog]

I for one am glad that these have been added, I wouldn't touch them otherwise and definitely wouldn't have done the new slayer challenge. Took me a while for my first spider kill, but being clueless with combat, using only offensive abilities and tier 80 gear it was a lot easier than I thought and despite the deaths, I actually enjoyed the challenge (didn't help that I did some boss slayer and earnt crystals before hand by accident). I messed up a lot, I'm terrible at combat, I don't know properly how to use any defensive abilities, I don't know how to heal my yak so he always died on me on the third stage leaving me with less food, I'd never even used momentum before this. I can see the frustration and the pressure of the first kill, but with high level healing, keeping your yak alive and persevering it'll come. As for the group bosses, I've never been, probably struggle getting a team without paying, but there's always clan events and such to at least try for free. But ever since being a kid and playing ff games and such, killing all bosses has always felt like a major part of completing the game, far more than side quests and such but i guess that's just me. Obviously people will have different issues, lag has killed me hundreds of times in my rs existence, me being a noob has caused at least tens of deaths minimum. But there is no time limit on killing these guys, there's no limit of the money you can earn to improve your gear, you can make millions a day without even logging into the actual game nowadays.

[Blofeld]

Whilst the nature of the elf city comp reqs seem quite arbitrary and 'not in fitting with the typical comp reqs' , what if they had instead been made tasks for the elf city task set? Would people have been annoyed at stuff like reaching wave 20 and beating Morvans slayer challenge.?Because i think they would be perfectly in line with previous task sets activities. 

[Miss Lioness]

Whilst the nature of the elf city comp reqs seem quite arbitrary and 'not in fitting with the typical comp reqs' , what if they had instead been made tasks for the elf city task set? Would people have been annoyed at stuff like reaching wave 20 and beating Morvans slayer challenge.?Because i think they would be perfectly in line with previous task sets activities. 

 

Oh god, you are now saying something....

 

I truly hope if they make such a task, they will be able to implement it retroactively. I do not want to borrow another Nox Staff for the sake of doing something again that I've done, it would be the Sagas all over again, which I needed to do three times >.<....

[Sorator]

 

Whilst the nature of the elf city comp reqs seem quite arbitrary and 'not in fitting with the typical comp reqs' , what if they had instead been made tasks for the elf city task set? Would people have been annoyed at stuff like reaching wave 20 and beating Morvans slayer challenge.?Because i think they would be perfectly in line with previous task sets activities.

 

Oh god, you are now saying something....

 

I truly hope if they make such a task, they will be able to implement it retroactively. I do not want to borrow another Nox Staff for the sake of doing something again that I've done, it would be the Sagas all over again, which I needed to do three times >.<....

 

I'm pretty sure they've talked about doing an Elf City task set sometime after Batch 2. Knowing them, I wouldn't count on it being retroactive, though that's a possibility.

[Sy_Accursed]

The only time jagex has retroactived task sets is where you literally cannot redo the content because 'we want to show off replay value'

 

So I wouldn't be surprised if 20 waves on say hard or medium RoB is on there without retro active - I doubt platinum would make it because 99 req.

Also wouldn't surprise me if morvran's special made it on there.

[helring]

The only time jagex has retroactived task sets is where you literally cannot redo the content because 'we want to show off replay value'

 

So I wouldn't be surprised if 20 waves on say hard or medium RoB is on there without retro active - I doubt platinum would make it because 99 req.

Also wouldn't surprise me if morvran's special made it on there.

 

 

I don't know, for Karamja tasks they didn't say "complete the fight caves", they just had you equip the cape in the tzhaar area. They could do something similar with the titles.

[Sy_Accursed]

 

The only time jagex has retroactived task sets is where you literally cannot redo the content because 'we want to show off replay value'

 

So I wouldn't be surprised if 20 waves on say hard or medium RoB is on there without retro active - I doubt platinum would make it because 99 req.

Also wouldn't surprise me if morvran's special made it on there.

 

 

I don't know, for Karamja tasks they didn't say "complete the fight caves", they just had you equip the cape in the tzhaar area. They could do something similar with the titles.

 

 

True but that is kinda the exception that proves the rule and still kinda not retroactive in some ways for anyone who had lost/disposed of the fire cape.

[Quasar]

I was curious about what it might be like to do araxxor for a novice pvmer.  Yesterday I did a melee kill in the following equipment.  

 

Mainhand drygore mace, offhand rapier.

Tetsu plate, legs, and helm

Superior vamp scrim

vamp aura

barrows gloves

steads

tokhar kal

 

I brought a few more brews than I usually do, because I then proceeded not to dodge a single special attack for the entire kill.   I didn't pray switch on araxxi and the highest I was hit by a cleave was 6.5k on p4.   This boss is eminently doable.

[Sy_Accursed]

I was curious about what it might be like to do araxxor for a novice pvmer.  Yesterday I did a melee kill in the following equipment.  

 

Mainhand drygore mace, offhand rapier.

Tetsu plate, legs, and helm

Superior vamp scrim

vamp aura

barrows gloves

steads

tokhar kal

 

I brought a few more brews than I usually do, because I then proceeded not to dodge a single special attack for the entire kill.   I didn't pray switch on araxxi and the highest I was hit by a cleave was 6.5k on p4.   This boss is eminently doable.

 

Of course your test has a few flaws:

Top end ports stuff and drygores aren't exactly 'novice pvmer' gear - more like gwd or barrows with chaotics.

Regardless of gear used or purposeful actions the fact remains you are a good pvmer - you can't replicate the panic, chaos, incorrect actions etc a real novice or bad pvmer experiences.

 

There is no way for a seasoned pvmer to experience it the way a novice does and there is no way for a good pvmer to experience it the way a bad pvmer does because beyond what you do or don't do in the game the fundamental biological reactions of the human body differ between the experiences.

 

All your test really proves is that it is eminently possible for a good pvmer to purposeful make a few mistakes and still survive.

[Yoko Kurama]

I was curious about what it might be like to do araxxor for a novice pvmer.  Yesterday I did a melee kill in the following equipment.  

 

Mainhand drygore mace, offhand rapier.

Tetsu plate, legs, and helm

Superior vamp scrim

vamp aura

barrows gloves

steads

tokhar kal

 

I brought a few more brews than I usually do, because I then proceeded not to dodge a single special attack for the entire kill.   I didn't pray switch on araxxi and the highest I was hit by a cleave was 6.5k on p4.   This boss is eminently doable.

 

I have been teaching a friend of mine how to Araxxor. Whether he was using my T90 gear or his own T80 gear, the results were the same, and the major problem was reflexes, staying calm, knowing what to do, etc. Gear is the least of people's problems - at least novice's as far as Araxxor is concerned. It can easily be doable in t80 gear (which is easily obtainable). The hard part is the reflexes, the practice and the knowledge of what to do and how to do. People are who are used to the old style of Runescape PVM where all you did was bust out a Whip or GS and just let it attack while occasionally using special attacks and what not, and eating, are going to have a hard time adjusting. It's not impossible, but the point is that the problem these people are facing is, usually, not gear.