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stonewall337

Recent trend to include PvM into Comp Cape, i.e. Rush of Blood [Split]

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Mod edit: This thread has been split from the Elf City update thread to discuss the recent trend of incorporating PvM into the Comp Cape requirements, etc., notably including the Rush of Blood challenge.

 

 

 

I got a lot of crystal weapon seeds from pickpocketing. 
Also, I really can't kill the 20 waves at Blood Rush, tried alot, but I still fail. 30 seconds per wave is way too few. I'm not that 1% with lvl 90 gear and a lot of PVM experience. I really don't understand why these reqs lately are added to the normal comp.

PVM skills in RS are basically non existent. 
 
Rush of blood comes down to "can you time thresholds and sunshine and not fail to tds/glacors or mispull jadinkos/ganos"

 


As someone who struggles with bossing in Runescape, I'd say there are definitely PvM skills.

Perhaps not as much as other games, but honestly that's why I like Runescape; I only miss out on a small portion of the game's content by being bad at PvM instead of missing out on the majority of it.

 

I mean, RS PvM skills are like, can I eat enough or can I time a click away.

 

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy RS PvM. But there is comparatively very little skill involved.

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I got a lot of crystal weapon seeds from pickpocketing. 

Also, I really can't kill the 20 waves at Blood Rush, tried alot, but I still fail. 30 seconds per wave is way too few. I'm not that 1% with lvl 90 gear and a lot of PVM experience. I really don't understand why these reqs lately are added to the normal comp.

PVM skills in RS are basically non existent. 

 

Rush of blood comes down to "can you time thresholds and sunshine and not fail to tds/glacors or mispull jadinkos/ganos"

 

As someone who struggles with bossing in Runescape, I'd say there are definitely PvM skills.

 

Perhaps not as much as other games, but honestly that's why I like Runescape; I only miss out on a small portion of the game's content by being bad at PvM instead of missing out on the majority of it.

 

I mean, RS PvM skills are like, can I eat enough or can I time a click away.

 

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy RS PvM. But there is comparatively very little skill involved.

 

 

Comparative to other games it is certainly minimal, but it does exist nevertheless and not everyone has those skills, even at the level runescape requires. Especially with the new combat system leading to progressively more twitch-based combat encounters which is quite a niche skill. Especially for a playerbase largely developed on a combat system that went nowhere near that ballpark even 2 or 3 years ago.

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How's timing a click in RS fundamentally different from, say, timing a deny in DOTA2? :P

 

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How's timing a click in RS fundamentally different from, say, timing a deny in DOTA2? :P

I was going to bring up MOBAs yesterday but it would have been out of place at the time :razz: . Dawngate has basically the same control scheme but is infinitely less clunky. Maybe it's just me, but that bit of polish makes a huge difference; you don't really feel like you're losing clicks because you hit the inner corner of the hotkey instead of the center, and when you click to move you end up exactly where you intended to go.

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How's timing a click in RS fundamentally different from, say, timing a deny in DOTA2? :P

I was going to bring up MOBAs yesterday but it would have been out of place at the time :-P . Dawngate has basically the same control scheme but is infinitely less clunky. Maybe it's just me, but that bit of polish makes a huge difference; you don't really feel like you're losing clicks because you hit the inner corner of the hotkey instead of the center, and when you click to move you end up exactly where you intended to go.

 

Ye, the issues with EOC is that a hotkey based system works very poorly in a .6s tic based engine, especially without custom lag tolerance. Even with good internet on my gaming PC there were times where I'd click away on Araxxor, and the game would finish a cast before moving, or run back into melee to cast another ability even when canceled, or the like.

 

EoC is way better, as far as adding complexity, but it really lacks in smoothness and integration for high end bossing. 

 

The difference between RS combat and a game like LoL/WoW is insane. How responsive the engine is aside, there is simply so much more depth in combat in other games.

 

But RS shouldn't focus on depth in combat. It'll never have it with this engine. That takes away a large part of the skill aspect, but makes gear correspondingly more important. Which is better for RS IMO. 


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[hide=Drops]Araxxor Eye x1 Leg pieces x2
GWD: 5000 Addy bar Steam B Staff x3 Z Spear x6 Sara. Hilt x2 Bandos Hilt x2 (LS, Solo)SS x6 (1 LS)
Tormented Demons: Shard x6 Slice x5 Claws x9 Limbs x3
DKS: Archer x21 Warrior x31 Berserker x30 Axe x51[/hide]

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How's timing a click in RS fundamentally different from, say, timing a deny in DOTA2? :P

I was going to bring up MOBAs yesterday but it would have been out of place at the time :-P . Dawngate has basically the same control scheme but is infinitely less clunky. Maybe it's just me, but that bit of polish makes a huge difference; you don't really feel like you're losing clicks because you hit the inner corner of the hotkey instead of the center, and when you click to move you end up exactly where you intended to go.

 

Ye, the issues with EOC is that a hotkey based system works very poorly in a .6s tic based engine, especially without custom lag tolerance. Even with good internet on my gaming PC there were times where I'd click away on Araxxor, and the game would finish a cast before moving, or run back into melee to cast another ability even when canceled, or the like.

 

EoC is way better, as far as adding complexity, but it really lacks in smoothness and integration for high end bossing. 

 

The difference between RS combat and a game like LoL/WoW is insane. How responsive the engine is aside, there is simply so much more depth in combat in other games.

 

But RS shouldn't focus on depth in combat. It'll never have it with this engine. That takes away a large part of the skill aspect, but makes gear correspondingly more important. Which is better for RS IMO. 

 

As someone who has dabbled in DOTA and other similar combat games... This is so true.

 

If anything, the 600ms tick system makes everything feel clunky until you yourself start to run on a 600ms tick system :(


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It strikes me jagex are getting themselves into dangerous waters in regards to comp reqs.

 

Scrum Team 2 aka elf city team are now openly conceding that the top-end twitchy pvm of Araaxor is too much for comp as some can't beat it through no fault of their own and are looking to remove it from the comp req on the slayer challenge, but add it to trim.

 

But how can they concede that alteration without also conceding the Ninja Team should've listened to player feedback that said Raxxi, Rago and Rots were too much for plain comp and should be trim only with a lesser version of the reaper title existing for plain comp.

 

Strikes me as if they change one and not the other they are just opening themselves up for attacks about inconsistency.

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It strikes me jagex are getting themselves into dangerous waters in regards to comp reqs.

 

Scrum Team 2 aka elf city team are now openly conceding that the top-end twitchy pvm of Araaxor is too much for comp as some can't beat it through no fault of their own and are looking to remove it from the comp req on the slayer challenge, but add it to trim.

 

But how can they concede that alteration without also conceding the Ninja Team should've listened to player feedback that said Raxxi, Rago and Rots were too much for plain comp and should be trim only with a lesser version of the reaper title existing for plain comp.

 

Strikes me as if they change one and not the other they are just opening themselves up for attacks about inconsistency.

I think their linch pin on winning this argument is that some players might not do araxxor as their first boss in the challenge.

 

Also they pretty much nixed the idea of adjusting rush of blood.




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It strikes me jagex are getting themselves into dangerous waters in regards to comp reqs.

 

Scrum Team 2 aka elf city team are now openly conceding that the top-end twitchy pvm of Araaxor is too much for comp as some can't beat it through no fault of their own and are looking to remove it from the comp req on the slayer challenge, but add it to trim.

 

But how can they concede that alteration without also conceding the Ninja Team should've listened to player feedback that said Raxxi, Rago and Rots were too much for plain comp and should be trim only with a lesser version of the reaper title existing for plain comp.

 

Strikes me as if they change one and not the other they are just opening themselves up for attacks about inconsistency.

I think their linch pin on winning this argument is that some players might not do araxxor as their first boss in the challenge.

 

Also they pretty much nixed the idea of adjusting rush of blood.

 

 

That linch pin would fail miserably because it holds no logic as a reason to remove araaxor from the req.

 

Players are fully warned of which 10 bosses are required and that they get a debuff crystal for each one.

If they are bad at pvm they should plan to face the hardest boss when they are debuff free - aka first.

 

That is a simple choice in control of the player.

 

The bit they are conceding is that some players cannot beat araaxor at all due to lag etc. - which then immediately raises the question of if that is conceded here why not for the other req and then that in turns hits on if you are conceding that for one of the top 3 bosses why not the other 2.

 

The non-change on rush of blood kinda annoys me. I know it can be done, but it bugs me because its less about combat prowess and more about dumb luck on the spawns as to whether or not you beat it. You can be doing it all perfectly and the spawns ruin it. The trouble is most of what spawns in platinum is pretty close to 30 second kill unless you get a few lucky hits in leaving almost no wiggle room. Then you throw on TD and Glacors which take more than 30 seconds, with the frosting of a cele dragon timestopping or ice strykewyrms spreading combined with the stomp delay (which can push both over 30 seconds quite easily)  combined with muspah being the only one reliably possible to make up time on and it does become a function of sheer dumb luck beyond about 14-15 waves. I've tried ~10 times (few more if you count times I did badly and honed my performance) now and I'd say I performed as best as I could, there was nothing beyond RNG slowing down kills aside from 1 or 2 derp moments at worst I got 12 waves thanks to veritable parades of tds and glacors at best I got 16 (like 5 hp from getting 17) when I got 1 TD or 1 Glacor.


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The basic issue could be is that some players that couldn't solo araxxor, go the kill with a duo. Even though a duo is generally harder, the only thing they would need to focus on is staying alive which might help some of them. This challenge is solo only though. Personally, I don't think Araxxor, Rots and Rago should have been added to comp at all, but there is that. Rush of Blood comp req should probably have been to impress him on any difficulty, then highest for trim. Gonna keep arguing for changes to Rush req, although I did manage to get it done after around an hour and a half last night. Should hopefully have my trim back tonight after Araxxi tunnels switch.


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Why have a ''completionist'' cape when some important and essential game content would be negated from acquiring it. That's what a nannyscape cape would be for. If they expect me to just kill 40 hours of my life with at livid, having us kill each boss ONCE is laughable. Also, since you only have to solo one araxxor, the cleave without rage only maxes at around 6k, so there are no lag related 1 hit attacks. I've killed araxxor with high lag and really, it's not an issue.


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I always find it interesting how it's the people who are good pvmers who can't see any reason why people might not be able to pvm and immediately equate not being able to do some of the top end pvm as being some how nooby or lazy and that jagex recognising that some people simply don't have those skills or have other limiting factors (like bad internet or hardware) being 'nannyscape.'

 

Always kinda strikes me as a bit blinkered 'I can do it so everyone must be able to' mentality. I mean sure having the view that it should be on there to be true completion and sure having the view that the skill or difficulty involved is justified, but why the insistence that being alright at top end pvm is some how a baseline level that every single player ought to be able to do just because you can.

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I see Rush of Blood as a reasonable requirement because it just takes a little bit of time to get lucky. You aren't putting too much money into it and it is very low risk, and if you get unlucky spawns, oh well, that's only 10 minutes wasted. Dominion tower is a comp req and I think that is more luck based than this.

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I always find it interesting how it's the people who are good pvmers who can't see any reason why people might not be able to pvm and immediately equate not being able to do some of the top end pvm as being some how nooby or lazy and that jagex recognising that some people simply don't have those skills or have other limiting factors (like bad internet or hardware) being 'nannyscape.'

 

Always kinda strikes me as a bit blinkered 'I can do it so everyone must be able to' mentality. I mean sure having the view that it should be on there to be true completion and sure having the view that the skill or difficulty involved is justified, but why the insistence that being alright at top end pvm is some how a baseline level that every single player ought to be able to do just because you can.

I don't think you quite grasp that no top end pvm is required for comp. Not being able to cope with the current requirements would suggest not having any pvm skills at all (basically someone who is not willing to try). Why should comp be awarded to someone who ignores a large portion of the game? You are also wrong in thinking i'm a good pvm'er, because i'm really not (haven't ever been to vorago/ROTS).


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What about those who tried, finally managed an Araxxor kill, and have to do it all over again? That's what annoyed me the most.


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I always find it interesting how it's the people who are good pvmers who can't see any reason why people might not be able to pvm and immediately equate not being able to do some of the top end pvm as being some how nooby or lazy and that jagex recognising that some people simply don't have those skills or have other limiting factors (like bad internet or hardware) being 'nannyscape.'

 

Always kinda strikes me as a bit blinkered 'I can do it so everyone must be able to' mentality. I mean sure having the view that it should be on there to be true completion and sure having the view that the skill or difficulty involved is justified, but why the insistence that being alright at top end pvm is some how a baseline level that every single player ought to be able to do just because you can.

I can't max most skills because they bore me to suicide... should I be exempt from them so I can get the completionist's cape? :o I don't have the 'skills' to get completionist's! Get it? Wooooooooooo I crack myself up.


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I always find it interesting how it's the people who are good pvmers who can't see any reason why people might not be able to pvm and immediately equate not being able to do some of the top end pvm as being some how nooby or lazy and that jagex recognising that some people simply don't have those skills or have other limiting factors (like bad internet or hardware) being 'nannyscape.'

 

Always kinda strikes me as a bit blinkered 'I can do it so everyone must be able to' mentality. I mean sure having the view that it should be on there to be true completion and sure having the view that the skill or difficulty involved is justified, but why the insistence that being alright at top end pvm is some how a baseline level that every single player ought to be able to do just because you can.

I can't max most skills because they bore me to suicide... should I be exempt from them so I can get the completionist's cape? :o I don't have the 'skills' to get completionist's! Get it? Wooooooooooo I crack myself up.

 

 

Bored is different than actually impossible for you to do.


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I always find it interesting how it's the people who are good pvmers who can't see any reason why people might not be able to pvm and immediately equate not being able to do some of the top end pvm as being some how nooby or lazy and that jagex recognising that some people simply don't have those skills or have other limiting factors (like bad internet or hardware) being 'nannyscape.'

 

Always kinda strikes me as a bit blinkered 'I can do it so everyone must be able to' mentality. I mean sure having the view that it should be on there to be true completion and sure having the view that the skill or difficulty involved is justified, but why the insistence that being alright at top end pvm is some how a baseline level that every single player ought to be able to do just because you can.

I can't max most skills because they bore me to suicide... should I be exempt from them so I can get the completionist's cape? :o I don't have the 'skills' to get completionist's! Get it? Wooooooooooo I crack myself up.

 

 

Bored is different than actually impossible for you to do.

 

So physical issues are more pressing/important than mental ones? Cool.

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I always find it interesting how it's the people who are good pvmers who can't see any reason why people might not be able to pvm and immediately equate not being able to do some of the top end pvm as being some how nooby or lazy and that jagex recognising that some people simply don't have those skills or have other limiting factors (like bad internet or hardware) being 'nannyscape.'

 

Always kinda strikes me as a bit blinkered 'I can do it so everyone must be able to' mentality. I mean sure having the view that it should be on there to be true completion and sure having the view that the skill or difficulty involved is justified, but why the insistence that being alright at top end pvm is some how a baseline level that every single player ought to be able to do just because you can.

I can't max most skills because they bore me to suicide... should I be exempt from them so I can get the completionist's cape? :o I don't have the 'skills' to get completionist's! Get it? Wooooooooooo I crack myself up.

 

 

Bored is different than actually impossible for you to do.

 

So physical issues are more pressing/important than mental ones? Cool.

 

 

That's not a mental issue, that's a choice. While you can choose to max, you cannot choose to be good at pvm, you can only choose to practice which doesn't guarantee anything. They are very different.


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There are some mental issues that would prevent doing these reqs. Severe Arachnophobia, some people don't mentally process quick enough to switch prayers and avoid stuff like cleaves, etc. Boredom isn't a mental issue, it just means you don't like the content


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How's timing a click in RS fundamentally different from, say, timing a deny in DOTA2? :P

I was going to bring up MOBAs yesterday but it would have been out of place at the time :-P . Dawngate has basically the same control scheme but is infinitely less clunky. Maybe it's just me, but that bit of polish makes a huge difference; you don't really feel like you're losing clicks because you hit the inner corner of the hotkey instead of the center, and when you click to move you end up exactly where you intended to go.

 

Ye, the issues with EOC is that a hotkey based system works very poorly in a .6s tic based engine, especially without custom lag tolerance. Even with good internet on my gaming PC there were times where I'd click away on Araxxor, and the game would finish a cast before moving, or run back into melee to cast another ability even when canceled, or the like.

 

EoC is way better, as far as adding complexity, but it really lacks in smoothness and integration for high end bossing. 

 

The difference between RS combat and a game like LoL/WoW is insane. How responsive the engine is aside, there is simply so much more depth in combat in other games.

 

But RS shouldn't focus on depth in combat. It'll never have it with this engine. That takes away a large part of the skill aspect, but makes gear correspondingly more important. Which is better for RS IMO. 

 

 

Yeah EoC is basically playing LoL with only 3 champions available to you :\


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I always find it interesting how it's the people who are good pvmers who can't see any reason why people might not be able to pvm and immediately equate not being able to do some of the top end pvm as being some how nooby or lazy and that jagex recognising that some people simply don't have those skills or have other limiting factors (like bad internet or hardware) being 'nannyscape.'

 

Always kinda strikes me as a bit blinkered 'I can do it so everyone must be able to' mentality. I mean sure having the view that it should be on there to be true completion and sure having the view that the skill or difficulty involved is justified, but why the insistence that being alright at top end pvm is some how a baseline level that every single player ought to be able to do just because you can.

I can't max most skills because they bore me to suicide... should I be exempt from them so I can get the completionist's cape? :o I don't have the 'skills' to get completionist's! Get it? Wooooooooooo I crack myself up.

 

 

Bored is different than actually impossible for you to do.

 

So physical issues are more pressing/important than mental ones? Cool.

 

 

That's not a mental issue, that's a choice. While you can choose to max, you cannot choose to be good at pvm, you can only choose to practice which doesn't guarantee anything. They are very different.

 

 

You can definitely choose to be good at PvM via practicing. Some people just require more practice than others.

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I love the rationalization of people who suck at PvM. Oh well, too bad! The completionist cape is not required to enjoy the game. Did you not enjoy the game and then boom, because you got the completionist's cape before PvM required it, you suddenly enjoyed the game? PvM takes a heck of a lot more 'skill' than playing AFKScape (face it, most skills are AFK nowadays) and, guess what, it's a part of the game. I used to suck at PvM, but now I don't--because of practice and perseverance.

 

For reference, I died upwards of 30 times before my first Araxxor kill, and since then I completed a stick (only been back for boss reaper). It took me 100 hours to get good enough at TDs to break the 120 KPH barrier. There's a bunch more examples but that's the gist of it. Honestly, I'm only decent at PvM. Whatever. I'm not complaining.

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Placing a brick wall in your way when you've already earned something can take away your enjoyment. They had much more logic to what was trim and what was regular before. By breaking that they did cause issues. Some people cannot do high tier pvm whether you choose to believe it or not. I'm glad you can but that doesn't apply to everyone. Yes, there are cases where practice helps, there are others where it doesn't

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R.I.P. The olde nite. A legend is gone but not forgotten.

 

a Faction Related Item Sink for Rune Labs. https://[LikelyScam]/m=player-proposal/a=13/c=VcG-Ir5Ijno/view-idea?idea=19

 

 

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