Indeed! I love some things, I hate others. It's part of who I am. Everyone has different loves and hates! You can't tell me off for that.

 

~Ian

 

 

 

Actually, you don't. And actually, I can. You say you can not hear the quality in rap music and R 'n B. That's your flaw, not the music's. Because there certainly is a lot of musical and lyrical quality in those forms of music. And you don't acknowledge that. So. You're ignorant. Because you blame the music for your lack of musical ear. And thus your reply can be safely ignored.

 

 

 

I'll have you know sir that I play 3 instruments (electric guitar, keyboard, euphonium), and I hold a grade 5 certificate in musical theory - certainly not the best and I'm not claiming to be Mozart or anything, but it shows that I have a good understandings of the underlyings and fibres of music, as well as the capability to compose music.

 

 

 

As far as 'musical quality' goes, some of the properties of some good music might be:

 

 

 

- That it makes the right chord progressions at the right times - i.e. going from the sub-dominant to the dominant

 

- Not too many accidentals (sharpening or flattening too many notes)

 

- Obviously the rhythm, the timbre, CAN and SHOULD be changed throughout the piece, but in moderation

 

- Usually some thought should have gone into the lyrics - the same lyric repeated over and over get tedious

 

- Avoid drum machines! They can't replace the spirit and soul of a real drummer

 

- The piece took more than a day to write

 

 

 

My personal failings at recognising any decent level of musical talent within the rap/RnB genre are often to do with my last point. The number of chord progressions is so limited. Very often the ENTIRE piece will consist of the same 4 chords used over and over and over, and the rhythm won't be changed once - very strong evidence that the artist made the piece in his coffee break!

 

 

 

Again, these are MY opinions. If you have a problem with them, go suck a lemon - I really couldn't care less. If you have any constructive responses, critical or not, I'd really like to hear them.

 

 

 

~Ian

I really don't know much about metal except that it has no musical qualitites.

 

 

 

That line is pure gold.

 

If you don't know much more than 10 seconds about *one* metal song, how can you say one (well, actually two, since you think Hard Rock sucks too) entire genre has got no musical quality?

 

Not even the most hardcore metalhead in the world likes the first 10 seconds of every single metal song ever.

It only takes a second to realize you don't like getting kicked in the jewels...

 

 

 

Listen to any of my examples yet? This last line realy shows you know nothing about the genre. (probaly think of it as most people do, a bunch of pointless screaming :roll: ).

 

- That it makes the right chord progressions at the right times - i.e. going from the sub-dominant to the dominant

 

 

 

I can agree with that, but one of my favorite things is just a strike in.... where it goes chord rest differentchord . if you are listening to somethign expirimental, it can add to the suprise of the style, but for something like pop, it wouldnt work as well

 

 

- Not too many accidentals (sharpening or flattening too many notes)

 

 

 

accedentals cann be good or bad, nirvana got there style by playing the melvins style, but by making accedentals it added to the sound and mainstreemed it

 

 

 

- Obviously the rhythm, the timbre, CAN and SHOULD be changed throughout the piece, but in moderation

 

 

 

as i siad, unless its expirimental, this would work well. expirimental is all about surprise as a song can go from death metal to jazz to country in seconds, and it is what makes the music special

 

 

 

Usually some thought should have gone into the lyrics - the same lyric repeated over and over get tedious

 

 

 

all a mater of opinion, one of my favorite songs "falling to pieces" is really the same verse again, but its catchy in a hard rock way, on the other hand, disco...all the same line over and over :-#

 

 

 

 

- Avoid drum machines! They can't replace the spirit and soul of a real drummer

 

 

 

all depends on sound again, if in an industrial band the drum machine can add such a tech and rigid sound.

 

 

 

different styles have different rules, and not all styles are for all, simple as that

I really don't know much about metal except that it has no musical qualitites.

 

 

 

That line is pure gold.

 

If you don't know much more than 10 seconds about *one* metal song, how can you say one (well, actually two, since you think Hard Rock sucks too) entire genre has got no musical quality?

 

Not even the most hardcore metalhead in the world likes the first 10 seconds of every single metal song ever.

It only takes a second to realize you don't like getting kicked in the jewels...

 

 

 

Listen to any of my examples yet? This last line realy shows you know nothing about the genre. (probaly think of it as most people do, a bunch of pointless screaming :roll: ).

Yes I have. Although its to early to say what I think I'll do a little summary.

 

 

 

I did think metal was pointless screaming. Your examples helped show that there may be something more. Although from your examples I have heard alot of what I don't like about classical rock. I've yet to pin-point what that is. In some of your examples I wouldn't say its bad but I've really got to take a closer gander before I go back on anything I said.

I did think metal was pointless screaming. Your examples helped show that there may be something more.

 

 

 

That's good, at least.

 

 

 

I must admit and tell you that a lot of good metal bands are hard to get into sometimes, at least for me. usualy takes a few listenings to really "get" it.

I really don't know much about metal except that it has no musical qualitites.

 

 

 

That line is pure gold.

 

If you don't know much more than 10 seconds about *one* metal song, how can you say one (well, actually two, since you think Hard Rock sucks too) entire genre has got no musical quality?

 

Not even the most hardcore metalhead in the world likes the first 10 seconds of every single metal song ever.

It only takes a second to realize you don't like getting kicked in the jewels...

 

 

 

Listen to any of my examples yet? This last line realy shows you know nothing about the genre. (probaly think of it as most people do, a bunch of pointless screaming :roll: ).

Yes I have. Although its to early to say what I think I'll do a little summary.

 

 

 

I did think metal was pointless screaming. Your examples helped show that there may be something more. Although from your examples I have heard alot of what I don't like about classical rock. I've yet to pin-point what that is. In some of your examples I wouldn't say its bad but I've really got to take a closer gander before I go back on anything I said.

 

 

 

Since when does metal mean screaming lyrics??? It usually DOESN'T. If you're not a fan of screaming lyrics, that encompasses several genres and sub-genres. To single one type of music out is just unfair.

I really don't know much about metal except that it has no musical qualitites.

 

 

 

That line is pure gold.

 

If you don't know much more than 10 seconds about *one* metal song, how can you say one (well, actually two, since you think Hard Rock sucks too) entire genre has got no musical quality?

 

Not even the most hardcore metalhead in the world likes the first 10 seconds of every single metal song ever.

It only takes a second to realize you don't like getting kicked in the jewels...

 

 

 

Listen to any of my examples yet? This last line realy shows you know nothing about the genre. (probaly think of it as most people do, a bunch of pointless screaming :roll: ).

Yes I have. Although its to early to say what I think I'll do a little summary.

 

 

 

I did think metal was pointless screaming. Your examples helped show that there may be something more. Although from your examples I have heard alot of what I don't like about classical rock. I've yet to pin-point what that is. In some of your examples I wouldn't say its bad but I've really got to take a closer gander before I go back on anything I said.

 

 

 

Since when does metal mean screaming lyrics??? It usually DOESN'T. If you're not a fan of screaming lyrics, that encompasses several genres and sub-genres. To single one type of music out is just unfair.

yes but I'm entilted to my opinion regardless of the reasons.

I'll have you know sir that I play 3 instruments (electric guitar, keyboard, euphonium), and I hold a grade 5 certificate in musical theory - certainly not the best and I'm not claiming to be Mozart or anything, but it shows that I have a good understandings of the underlyings and fibres of music, as well as the capability to compose music.

 

 

 

As far as 'musical quality' goes, some of the properties of some good music might be:

 

 

 

- That it makes the right chord progressions at the right times - i.e. going from the sub-dominant to the dominant

 

- Not too many accidentals (sharpening or flattening too many notes)

 

- Obviously the rhythm, the timbre, CAN and SHOULD be changed throughout the piece, but in moderation

 

- Usually some thought should have gone into the lyrics - the same lyric repeated over and over get tedious

 

- Avoid drum machines! They can't replace the spirit and soul of a real drummer

 

- The piece took more than a day to write

 

 

 

My personal failings at recognising any decent level of musical talent within the rap/RnB genre are often to do with my last point. The number of chord progressions is so limited. Very often the ENTIRE piece will consist of the same 4 chords used over and over and over, and the rhythm won't be changed once - very strong evidence that the artist made the piece in his coffee break!

 

 

 

Again, these are MY opinions. If you have a problem with them, go suck a lemon - I really couldn't care less. If you have any constructive responses, critical or not, I'd really like to hear them.

 

 

 

~Ian

 

 

 

How do you know rappers write everything in less than a day? Because they use the same chord over and over? You're not even interested in the genre. And why is something that has been written in less than a day bad? You wirte that down as if it is a rule. Which is crap of course. You say you can not recognize musical quality in the rap genre. That's YOUR flaw. Because it is there, just as in any other genre. It's just nonsense to say. It is wrong. No matter how many degrees you have or how many instruments you play YOU ARE WRONG! The opinion thing is just plain nonsense. THERE IS MUSICAL QUALITY IN RAP MUSIC JUST AS IN ANY OTHER FORM OF MUSIC. How hard is that to grasp?

 

 

 

Let me give you an example. THE POSTMAN ALWAYS RINGS TWICE is a good book. I thought the book was BORING. Because I think the book is boring, the book is bad? NO. I THINK the book is bad. The book ISN'T bad.

I really don't know much about metal except that it has no musical qualitites.

 

 

 

That line is pure gold.

 

If you don't know much more than 10 seconds about *one* metal song, how can you say one (well, actually two, since you think Hard Rock sucks too) entire genre has got no musical quality?

 

Not even the most hardcore metalhead in the world likes the first 10 seconds of every single metal song ever.

It only takes a second to realize you don't like getting kicked in the jewels...

 

 

 

Listen to any of my examples yet? This last line realy shows you know nothing about the genre. (probaly think of it as most people do, a bunch of pointless screaming :roll: ).

Yes I have. Although its to early to say what I think I'll do a little summary.

 

 

 

I did think metal was pointless screaming. Your examples helped show that there may be something more. Although from your examples I have heard alot of what I don't like about classical rock. I've yet to pin-point what that is. In some of your examples I wouldn't say its bad but I've really got to take a closer gander before I go back on anything I said.

 

 

 

Since when does metal mean screaming lyrics??? It usually DOESN'T. If you're not a fan of screaming lyrics, that encompasses several genres and sub-genres. To single one type of music out is just unfair.

 

 

 

 

 

can we PLEASE stop the useless conversations of who likes metal or not???? i dont like it!!!!!!!! :ohnoes:

You wirte that down as if it is a rule. Which is crap of course. You say you can not recognize musical quality in the rap genre. That's YOUR flaw. Because it is there, just as in any other genre. It's just nonsense to say. It is wrong. No matter how many degrees you have or how many instruments you play YOU ARE WRONG! The opinion thing is just plain nonsense. THERE IS MUSICAL QUALITY IN RAP MUSIC JUST AS IN ANY OTHER FORM OF MUSIC. How hard is that to grasp?

 

 

 

 

And yet you've yet to list what is actually so great about your beloved rap music. All I've heard from you so far is how I should feel bad for having an opinion! You haven't actually made any sort of attempt to defend rap music.

 

 

 

You listen to it: Boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom *some guy talking over the top* - repeat this for 3 minutes. There we go, that's a song, packaged, sold to the millions of adoring fans. It took 10 minutes. You can't JUSTIFY that! It's terrible! It's a disgrace to the real musicians out there who put their heart and soul, and more time than their coffee-break, into composing music.

 

 

 

RnB/Hip Hop isn't any better. Listen to "My Humps" by the "Black Eyed Peas". That is the classic generic c**p that I'm talking about here. The epitome of 'manufactured' music - no soul or feeling went into that production it was merely 'made for the masses'. Unfortunately, people think it's GREAT for some reason, hence why that particular song has scooped several awards and I believe it climbed to the number 1 spot in several charts worldwide.

 

 

 

Obviously there are other genres with so called 'sellout' bands, but the high proportion of sellout music in these specific genres, along with the simplicity of the music they produce just makes it abyssmal and 'almost depressing' to quote my music teacher.

 

 

 

~Ian

Wow!!! Interesting conversations since yesterday hehe.

 

 

 

I agree with you Ian, about the rap and hip/hop. Sad to say that we've gotten more into showing our body with the same thump of music or so-called music.

 

 

 

Music is all about what is soothing to your ears. In RnB its more of voice than it is "musical instruments". Listen to the voice to hear the "quality of the music". lol

 

 

 

Since I am from the south, I like a more slower, soulful sound. And when it comes to RnB, I love Erykah Badu, India Arie, and dare I say Jill Scott?? lol

 

 

 

And then again, my love for the sound of a guitar (except the twang in country) moves me to listen to rock. I like some metal too...and believe me..I don't think metal is meant to be a "sing along". lol Now that's some pure unadulterated funk for ya. hehe :P

I really don't know much about metal except that it has no musical qualitites.

 

 

 

That line is pure gold.

 

If you don't know much more than 10 seconds about *one* metal song, how can you say one (well, actually two, since you think Hard Rock sucks too) entire genre has got no musical quality?

 

Not even the most hardcore metalhead in the world likes the first 10 seconds of every single metal song ever.

It only takes a second to realize you don't like getting kicked in the jewels...

 

 

 

Listen to any of my examples yet? This last line realy shows you know nothing about the genre. (probaly think of it as most people do, a bunch of pointless screaming :roll: ).

Yes I have. Although its to early to say what I think I'll do a little summary.

 

 

 

I did think metal was pointless screaming. Your examples helped show that there may be something more. Although from your examples I have heard alot of what I don't like about classical rock. I've yet to pin-point what that is. In some of your examples I wouldn't say its bad but I've really got to take a closer gander before I go back on anything I said.

 

 

 

Since when does metal mean screaming lyrics??? It usually DOESN'T. If you're not a fan of screaming lyrics, that encompasses several genres and sub-genres. To single one type of music out is just unfair.

 

 

 

 

 

can we PLEASE stop the useless conversations of who likes metal or not???? i dont like it!!!!!!!! :ohnoes:

 

 

 

Instead of what, just us mindlessly typing out what we like/dislike? Conversation is good... it's what makes a topic good. :?

 

Music is all about what is soothing to your ears. In RnB its more of voice than it is "musical instruments". Listen to the voice to hear the "quality of the music". lol

 

 

 

Since I am from the south, I like a more slower, soulful sound. And when it comes to RnB, I love Erykah Badu, India Arie, and dare I say Jill Scott?? lol

 

 

 

 

I can identify with what you're saying. That sort of RnB sub-genre (Badu, Arie, etc), is closer to its roots, and I have absolutely no problem with that because as you correctly say, although it's simplistic, the effort has been put into the vocals. That sort of RnB really is Rhythm and Blues and is deserving of the genre title.

 

 

 

It's only a shame this sort of music isn't recognised as well as the manufactured rubbish which we hear every day in the charts.

 

 

 

On a side note, I love listening to soul, jazz and blues music, even though they're a very rare occurence in my playlist compared to all the alternative and rock I have. I can't say I'm a big fan of country - mainly because we don't have that sort of thing in Europe - or at least it's nowhere near as popular.

 

 

 

And if I'm feeling adventurous sometimes, I might put the radio onto Classic FM - but nobody need know about that :oops:

 

 

 

~Ian

I really don't know much about metal except that it has no musical qualitites.

 

 

 

That line is pure gold.

 

If you don't know much more than 10 seconds about *one* metal song, how can you say one (well, actually two, since you think Hard Rock sucks too) entire genre has got no musical quality?

 

Not even the most hardcore metalhead in the world likes the first 10 seconds of every single metal song ever.

It only takes a second to realize you don't like getting kicked in the jewels...

 

 

 

Listen to any of my examples yet? This last line realy shows you know nothing about the genre. (probaly think of it as most people do, a bunch of pointless screaming :roll: ).

Yes I have. Although its to early to say what I think I'll do a little summary.

 

 

 

I did think metal was pointless screaming. Your examples helped show that there may be something more. Although from your examples I have heard alot of what I don't like about classical rock. I've yet to pin-point what that is. In some of your examples I wouldn't say its bad but I've really got to take a closer gander before I go back on anything I said.

 

 

 

Since when does metal mean screaming lyrics??? It usually DOESN'T. If you're not a fan of screaming lyrics, that encompasses several genres and sub-genres. To single one type of music out is just unfair.

yes but I'm entilted to my opinion regardless of the reasons.

 

 

 

You've offered no logical backing to your "reasons". Welcome to a public forum, if you're going to speak your mind as such, you better prepare to back it up, or be made a fool of. I fear you've chosen the latter path.

And yet you've yet to list what is actually so great about your beloved rap music. All I've heard from you so far is how I should feel bad for having an opinion! You haven't actually made any sort of attempt to defend rap music.

 

 

 

You listen to it: Boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom *some guy talking over the top* - repeat this for 3 minutes. There we go, that's a song, packaged, sold to the millions of adoring fans. It took 10 minutes. You can't JUSTIFY that! It's terrible! It's a disgrace to the real musicians out there who put their heart and soul, and more time than their coffee-break, into composing music.

 

 

 

RnB/Hip Hop isn't any better. Listen to "My Humps" by the "Black Eyed Peas". That is the classic generic c**p that I'm talking about here. The epitome of 'manufactured' music - no soul or feeling went into that production it was merely 'made for the masses'. Unfortunately, people think it's GREAT for some reason, hence why that particular song has scooped several awards and I believe it climbed to the number 1 spot in several charts worldwide.

 

 

 

Obviously there are other genres with so called 'sellout' bands, but the high proportion of sellout music in these specific genres, along with the simplicity of the music they produce just makes it abyssmal and 'almost depressing' to quote my music teacher.

 

 

 

~Ian

 

 

 

Rap isn't my beloved music. I don't listen to it that often. But what you were saying isn't true. Maybe if you're talking about the rap-scum that is in the hit-parades, let's say THE GAME, or 50 CENT then I can understand where you are comming from. But if you're going a little bit deeper into the genre (which really isn't that much effort, as it is so easy to get), you will see that there is a lot of quality. Musically (which isn't always based on samples, there are also instrumental bands), and lyrically. No generic songs. Also The Black Eyed Peas are a very nice combination between pop, R 'n B and Hip Hop. Making a unique and fun combination in the hit-parades. Their songs are always tightly produced. Hardly 'coffee-break made'. And when I look at the hit-parades here in Holland, hip hop and R 'n B isn't the biggest part of it.

 

 

 

There wasn't anything to defend anyway. I was merely pointing out your wrong way of judgement and limited insight on (rap) music. When you aren't interested in a certain genre of music you shouldn't give such harsh criticism on it. Because you don't really know what it is about.

SKA!

 

 

 

Duh... :P

 

 

 

lol some people think ska is dead i think its a lie though

 

 

 

 

 

perfect example: less than jake 8-)

 

 

 

Billy talent 8-)

 

 

 

Ska, Nu metal, heavy.

 

 

 

Billy Talent = Ska :shock:

 

 

 

I like a mix of ska, reggae, and dub, but I also like a good amount of hardcore.

I really don't know much about metal except that it has no musical qualitites.

 

 

 

That line is pure gold.

 

If you don't know much more than 10 seconds about *one* metal song, how can you say one (well, actually two, since you think Hard Rock sucks too) entire genre has got no musical quality?

 

Not even the most hardcore metalhead in the world likes the first 10 seconds of every single metal song ever.

It only takes a second to realize you don't like getting kicked in the jewels...

 

 

 

Listen to any of my examples yet? This last line realy shows you know nothing about the genre. (probaly think of it as most people do, a bunch of pointless screaming :roll: ).

Yes I have. Although its to early to say what I think I'll do a little summary.

 

 

 

I did think metal was pointless screaming. Your examples helped show that there may be something more. Although from your examples I have heard alot of what I don't like about classical rock. I've yet to pin-point what that is. In some of your examples I wouldn't say its bad but I've really got to take a closer gander before I go back on anything I said.

 

 

 

Since when does metal mean screaming lyrics??? It usually DOESN'T. If you're not a fan of screaming lyrics, that encompasses several genres and sub-genres. To single one type of music out is just unfair.

yes but I'm entilted to my opinion regardless of the reasons.

 

 

 

You've offered no logical backing to your "reasons". Welcome to a public forum, if you're going to speak your mind as such, you better prepare to back it up, or be made a fool of. I fear you've chosen the latter path.

Why back up something for someone who is going to ignore it? No I'll save my breath for someone like Nadril and Ian who can actually have an intelligent conversation.

 

 

 

@ Nads. I'm still trying to listen to your metal but for some reason I have to lower my expectations of what I consider high quality. The instruments are very good but they seem to 'push' the vocals to much. Which leads to very strained music.

 

/my opinion

Hmm... what band are you listening too? Some do have fairly "forced" vocals (mostly the death/black metal).

 

 

 

:)

Not forgetting Gore Metal :D

I really don't know much about metal except that it has no musical qualitites.

 

 

 

That line is pure gold.

 

If you don't know much more than 10 seconds about *one* metal song, how can you say one (well, actually two, since you think Hard Rock sucks too) entire genre has got no musical quality?

 

Not even the most hardcore metalhead in the world likes the first 10 seconds of every single metal song ever.

It only takes a second to realize you don't like getting kicked in the jewels...

 

 

 

Listen to any of my examples yet? This last line realy shows you know nothing about the genre. (probaly think of it as most people do, a bunch of pointless screaming :roll: ).

Yes I have. Although its to early to say what I think I'll do a little summary.

 

 

 

I did think metal was pointless screaming. Your examples helped show that there may be something more. Although from your examples I have heard alot of what I don't like about classical rock. I've yet to pin-point what that is. In some of your examples I wouldn't say its bad but I've really got to take a closer gander before I go back on anything I said.

 

 

 

Since when does metal mean screaming lyrics??? It usually DOESN'T. If you're not a fan of screaming lyrics, that encompasses several genres and sub-genres. To single one type of music out is just unfair.

 

 

 

 

 

can we PLEASE stop the useless conversations of who likes metal or not???? i dont like it!!!!!!!! :ohnoes:

 

 

 

Instead of what, just us mindlessly typing out what we like/dislike? Conversation is good... it's what makes a topic good. :?

 

 

 

 

 

yes i agree, but look at this! even u have to admit this is WAY to much. this post i made was to hear what other tip.iters like about music, not hearing days after days of long meaningless arguments. :(

 

#-o

rock and ragaey like bob marley, jimi hendrix 311

 

 

 

Not forgetting Gore Metal :D

 

 

 

Well if you wanted me to get techinical I could add a lot more examples of genres with forced vocals. However, I simply was going off the examples I had posted for him.

 

 

 

 

 

@ rushrock: I still fail to see what your saying. We are having a conversation which makes a thread go someplace. I fail to see how it's different from a "useless" post about your favorite genres.

Gypsy punk!!!

Not forgetting Gore Metal :D

 

 

 

Well if you wanted me to get techinical I could add a lot more examples of genres with forced vocals. However, I simply was going off the examples I had posted for him.

 

 

 

 

 

@ rushrock: I still fail to see what your saying. We are having a conversation which makes a thread go someplace. I fail to see how it's different from a "useless" post about your favorite genres.

 

 

 

 

 

yes, and conversations are great and fine. i agree with ur completely. but there is a limit - somewhat. and i think this has gone too far...this thread is to see what tip.iters music is like - not to have huge rambling conversations-but conversations (within reason) are good :D

Umm i'd say reggae and rap :)