Che Guevara

[Guest GhostRanger]

Ernesto "Che" Guevara was a 'Cuban' revolutionary and considered by many to be the icon for the modern communist/socialist movement. However, despite his ideals, despite the good he fought for, many people don't consider Che to be a respectable historical figure.

 

 

 

For those who don't know, Che is the guy in oy_the_great's avatar:

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll admit, I don't know a whole lot about Che. In fact, I'm sure people on this board know a lot more about him than I do. So I pose the question, what do you all think about Che?

 

 

 

I don't want this to be limited to those who know a lot about Che. I'm interested to know what people think who have just heard vague references to him. If you don't know much about him, have you heard generally more positive or more negative things about him? If you do know a lot about him, what do you think and why?

[Rizla]

I started reading a biography about him a while back but for some reason i stopped about 100 pages in so i hadn't really got to the "meaty" parts yet. From what i've read so far he certainly had an interesting time roaming around South America.

[Ragen]

From what I understand (high posibility of being very wrong), Che Guevera was a Cuban who went off and hid in America and killed quite a few people in the name of Communism. I think the reason some people worship him the way they do is because he actually acted on his beliefs (even if they were wrong and he acted in the wrong way).

[logic-is-overrated]

I think he's a terrorist and a murderer. And furthermore I think that any good he accomplished is marred by the way he accomplished it.

[assassin_696]

Definitely an interesting cult figure, but I think that in reality he was a terrorist, or "freedom fighter". I don't know much about him, but he did do some pretty bad things in his time.

[Not]

From what I understand (high posibility of being very wrong), Che Guevera was a Cuban who went off and hid in America and killed quite a few people in the name of Communism. I think the reason some people worship him the way they do is because he actually acted on his beliefs (even if they were wrong and he acted in the wrong way).

 

 

 

Eh? I don't think that's right at all.

 

 

 

He was a revolutionist, so in my books he's a-ok.

[indy500fan]

I despise seeing all these kids running around with their Che shirts because it is popular. Half the time they don't even know who it is.

 

 

 

I don't really know much about him either, except that he was a communist. I don't agree with his politics (in fact, pretty much the exact opposite), but I don't know enough to say whether or not I like him.

[krunkthemonk]

I despise seeing all these kids running around with their Che shirts because it is popular. Half the time they don't even know who it is.

 

 

 

 

 

 

If anyone here has been to Cuba then you'd know his face is stamped on everything! It's near impossible to pick up a souvenir without his ugly mug on it.

[jak722]

I have written and presented his autobiography in spanish as a final project for my grade 12 spanish class. (we had to present spanish speaking figures)

 

 

 

IMO he had really good intentions at the start, he was a doctor, he travelled all over most of Latin America, and he wanted to volunteer at a leper colony (motorcycle diaries).

 

 

 

Problem is, when he realized something must be done to alleviate the problems of the people, he had chosen revolution. A fairly violent one too as it turned out...

 

 

 

But its really not his entire fault...

 

 

 

The US had alot of influence in the Americas and Che happened to live at the height of the Cold War when communism was the hot topic for the world... And the US wasn't exactly nice all the time during those days. (IE Guatemala, Chile, Argentina and several other places if you know what I mean.)

 

 

 

It was unfortunate that several incidents were attributed to him (IE executions supposedly done by his own hand)...

 

 

 

 

 

IMO he was a good person and had decent intentions, but his means to achieve a change were very questionable...

 

 

 

However I can't help but admire the guy for trying. :-k

[mad4u689]

I always thought of him as a revolutionary, a good person, until I had a Spanish teacher in high school who lived in Cuba as a child and was forced out. This teacher is someone I greatly admire, a really beautiful human being - and the things she told us about what Che did in his country make me sick.

 

 

 

There's a very positive vibe about him in our culture today, but he was responsible for the deaths of large numbers of innocent people. Unless you think being born with money makes you automatically guilty...

 

 

 

So I hope more people read up on history and analyze critically :D

[Bubsa]

So many people have the posters and memorabilia of this man and I wonder how many of those people actually know anything about him. It seems to be the cool thing at the moment.

 

 

 

I don't know a lot about him either, but that's not to say I'd like to learn more.

[Bmw]

I know that Che Guevara was one of the men who were apart of the July 26th movement in Cuba, whereas Fidel Castro and his buds overthrew President Batista. After that, I don't know a whole lot about him. He was captured in the early 60's I think, by the CIA (again, I think). He was soon after killed.

 

 

 

In general, he was a man who had very strong beliefs, and I respect him for that. However, I don't like him whatsoever (from what I know) because he was a communist, and great supporter of Castro, who I also dislike. Guevara is a symbol for socialism, and all of these posers and emo kids always have him on their shirt and whatnot. I guess that fuels my "hatred" (for lack of a better word) for him.

[darkmage099]

I've heard of him. Just what people above have heard about him. I kind of admire him for leading such a revolution. I mean gotta give the guy credit for what he did. I don't agree with what he did though.

 

 

 

 

 

BMW, the forums are slow for me too.

[jak722]

I know that Che Guevara was one of the men who were apart of the July 26th movement in Cuba, whereas Fidel Castro and his buds overthrew President Batista. After that, I don't know a whole lot about him. He was captured in the early 60's I think, by the CIA (again, I think). He was soon after killed.

 

 

 

In general, he was a man who had very strong beliefs, and I respect him for that. However, I don't like him whatsoever (from what I know) because he was a communist, and great supporter of Castro, who I also dislike. Guevara is a symbol for socialism, and all of these posers and emo kids always have him on their shirt and whatnot. I guess that fuels my "hatred" (for lack of a better word) for him.

 

 

 

Che litterally wrote the book on Guerilla Warfare.

 

 

 

The US obvious wanted to get him so they sent military specialists to Bolivia when they found out Che was trying to enlist the peasants there to start a revolution.

 

 

 

Che however, had problems because the bolivian peasants were not entirely sure whether to trust their lives to this man.

 

 

 

Che also had problems with the local communist movement in Bolivia, who were supposed to help him. That was because Che had problems with the policies of the USSR. (IE the Sino-Russia split of the 60s. Che supported the chinese communists instead of the russians.)

 

 

 

He was also very asthmatic and he and his men were running out of supplies.

 

 

 

Well long story short, Che was cornered in the jungle and was captured by the Bolivian army.

 

 

 

It gets pretty hazy after that, but people are sure now that the US wanted him captured alive as a tropy, but the Bolivians executed him.

 

 

 

 

 

Hehe I kinda just wanted to comment on his death. It's one of his more facinating mysteries.

 

 

 

 

 

I kinda consider myself as a "Liberal Democratic socialist" so some of his ideals appeal to me.

 

 

 

Im not a violent person though, and I don't agree with his methods however...

[1_man_army]

Che Guevara was an Argentine student doctor, who after travelling across South America with a close friend, became a supporter of revolution as a remedy to the poverty of the region.

 

 

 

He was first involved in revolution in Guatemala and then more famously as a key figure in the Cuban revolution against the corrupt dictatorship of Fugencio Batista. He was then in charge of the La Cabana prison which dealt with the trial and execution of Batista's officials.

 

 

 

He left Cuba and later attempted to create further revolutions which eventually led him to Bolivia where he was captured and executed.

 

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Thats the history lesson part over, now the opinionated bit.

 

 

 

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I personally sympathise with Che Guevara to some extent. Latin America was in a terrible state of affairs after the Second World War, poverty, corruption and military dictatorships were rife in the area at the time.

 

 

 

Batista's regime in Cuba was typical of this, a military dictatorship which was only in place as it was anti-communist which suited USA considering its proximity and Batista's ability to be bullied into doing what was needed by the USA. While I disagree with his tenure at La Cabana prison, where many a Batista official was killed in his 6 month tenure, I believe he did good in Cuba and attempted to replicate this positive influence further. I would also like to point out however, that the USA persistantly tried to undermine Guevara/Cuba/Castro by using propaganda among other methods.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

 

 

 

Moving on from that, I dislike seeing these teenagers wearing Che Guevara t-shirts if they dont know what the man stood for other than 'revolution'. It seems silly to me that he's now seen as some sort of figure for teenage rebelion.

 

 

 

To finish, while I dont think communism and/or revolution are ideal methods of social change, I do think they were beneficial in South America at that time. Its also important to remember the saying "one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter". Its all just a matter of perspective.

 

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Further reading before anyone makes a baseless argument;

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Che_Guevara

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Che_Guevar ... Revolution

[apinagez]

LOL. Where has mankind gone! Che Guevara is now the guy in Oy's avatar.

[apinagez]

lag :(

[Deeno13]

I don't know much about Che but when I was in El Salvador which has suffered through a civil war and many of the problems that plauged South America durning Che's time and still plague the region I say lots of support for Che. I stayed in the home of a woman who was a guerilla fighter during the El Salvadorian civil war. She was a huge supporter of Che and one of the nicest humans I have ever met. I am really interested in learning more about him.

[FuBai]

He was an idealist. I, personaly, don't think that's a good thing. My knowledge of him is mostly from the motorcycle diaries and wikipedia, so I'm not in a real position to say much more.

[Necromagus]

At least he always stuck to his principles, unlike most revolutionaries. For example, when his wife needed to go to the hospital for a minor examination, he refused her to use his car, because it would be robbing the people if she used a governement vehicle for private use. He was also known for rejecting expensive gifts from other leaders because it would mean he'd put himself ahead of the people.

 

 

 

Also, a lot of people seem to forget that Batista was hardly a saint either. As chief of staff for president Grau (who was put into place through the Seargants' Revolt of 1931) he violently put down several attempts to break his control, and he repeatedly executed people even after they surrendered. He became president in 1952 by overthrowing the democratically elected president Socarras.

[darkmage099]

LOL. Where has mankind gone! Che Guevara is now the guy in Oy's avatar.

 

 

 

I didn't know that untilt his thread came out. :cry: :oops: I thought it was just some random guy from Belgium or something.

[Oy_the_Great]

First of all, thanks for showing intrest in my avatar and in Cḫ̩̉̉ himself Ghost :)

 

 

 

LOL. Where has mankind gone! Che Guevara is now the guy in Oy's avatar.

 

 

 

According to many of the tip.it Americans it'll soon be 'Cḫ̩̉̉, The Communist Pig That Has The Privilege To Be In Oy's Avatar' instead of 'Cḫ̩̉̉, The Liberator Of The Poor Who Failed Due To Human Flaws And Died By Bolivio-American Bullets'.

 

 

 

If you want to know some objective facts about Cḫ̩̉̉ apart from that portrait of a Communist "sociopathic thug" that Americans get or the fantastic freedom fighter many Europeans think he was, pay a visit to wikkipedia, where (IMHO) a pretty accurate description of him is given.

 

 

 

Some good movies that made me want to know more about this fascinating figure are Fidel and The Motorcycle Diaries. Especially the latter describes Cḫ̩̉̉ from the beginning until the end. It looks like many of you guys need a little background before judging him. I've read things like 'he was a Cuban who hid in America [ ]' or a 'terrorist'.

 

Perhaps you could call him a terrorist because of his guerilla tactics, who he and his compadres developped, but that's it. As far as I know, a terrorist is someone who causes terror (they do not grasp power, like Cḫ̩̉̉, Fidel & co did) in the name of 'a better good'. Cḫ̩̉̉ was a general, who fought a battle for what he thought of as 'a better good', not somebody that randomly kills to derail a state or to fill its inhabitants with fear.

 

Having clarified that, I'd also like to add that he was not a hero. I hate that typical American description, because it's so very subjected to everyone's personal opinion. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the president of Iran, might think of Osama as a hero while the president of the USA despises him for obvious reasons.

 

Every single figure that meant something in history has its fans and its opponents. I myself am not exactely a fan of Cḫ̩̉̉, but I have him in my sig because I have boundless respect for people who give everything that have to help others. No one in the world, not even Cḫ̩̉̉'s biggest opponent, can say he did it for the power or for a reason that does not deserve respect. He left Cuba to free other nations in Africa and eventually in South America, where he never arrived. He left when he was the right hand of Fidel, so when he had significant power. Though he claimed (and I completely agree with Jak here) an unrealistic (but beautiful) ideology as Communism was what we had to strive for in the entire world, even by waging war and eliminating everyone who opposed them, I still believe that he meant well. I can't believe any living person can sacrifice its life with the thought of doing bad. Suicide bombers most likely think they're actually doing something good, they're probably more convinced of doing the right thing than an American soldier thinks he is.

 

 

 

But I can't argue with the fact that he's probably responsible for the death of thousands of convicts in Cuba, more specifically in the Cabả̮̱̉a prison. He did that not because he was a bloodthristy terrorist, but because he was convinced no revolution could succeed with people in it that opposed it. All previous revolutions had failed because of that, he said. So my respect for Cḫ̩̉̉, and all people who aren't egocentric and want to improve this world, is based on what he thought he was doing and not on what he actually was doing. I could hang around with an avatar of Lenin, Caesar August or Napoleon, but they just so happen to be a lot less cool than good ol' Cḫ̩̉̉ :wink:

[Guest GhostRanger]

If you want to know some objective facts about Cḫ̩̉̉ apart from that portrait of a Communist "sociopathic thug" that Americans get or the fantastic freedom fighter many Europeans think he was, pay a visit to wikkipedia, where (IMHO) a pretty accurate description of him is given.

 

 

 

I went to wikipedia before posting the original thread to read a little about it and was surprised that not only was the article pretty unbiased, but it was unbiased without it having to be locked due to vandalism. :P

[How2PK]

Hmm, The motorcycle diaries a good portrayel from beginning to end? The Motorycycle Diaries only shows the pre-revolution Che. Good movie though, some insight on the younger che. Though I wouldn't take it's too serious, it seems quite one-sided.

[Oy_the_Great]

If you want to know some objective facts about Cḫ̩̉̉ apart from that portrait of a Communist "sociopathic thug" that Americans get or the fantastic freedom fighter many Europeans think he was, pay a visit to wikkipedia, where (IMHO) a pretty accurate description of him is given.

 

 

 

I went to wikipedia before posting the original thread to read a little about it and was surprised that not only was the article pretty unbiased, but it was unbiased without it having to be locked due to vandalism. :P

 

 

 

Yeah, I guess most people who know quite a lot about him aren't idiotic fans that think of him as a demi-god. To be honest, most people I know that know a lot about ideologies like Communism are very intelligent and critical people who are not afraid of pointing out its flaws either.

 

 

 

edit:

 

Hmm, The motorcycle diaries a good portrayel from beginning to end? The Motorycycle Diaries only shows the pre-revolution Che. Good movie though, some insight on the younger che. Though I wouldn't take it's too serious, it seems quite one-sided.

 

That's what I meant. I saw the movie again a week ago and I don't suffer from amnesia ;)