About levels and xp

[Viv]

i don't think that thier is before 30 but after 30 its pretty formula like with every 7 levels exp about doubling. i think that is why red combat is 7 levels above and green is 7 levels below to show that the person is twice as strong or twice as weak.

[Goobore]

i don't think that thier is before 30 but...

 

 

 

But the 2 formulas presented compute all exp in levels 1-99 with perfect accuracy...

[Dalcyte]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lol wth? Gah, I don't understand that. Only Einstein would understand something like that. :wall: :oops:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Experience equals the rounded down number of the sumation of your level minus one of the rouneded down number of current number (being X) times 2 to the power of your level and root 7. Then divide by 4.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You'll learn Sumation in High School math, not hard. The only thing not actual math like is floor which is a computer term for rounding down.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit: Sumation means that you start at x=1 and then do the formula and you add to your received number by adding the next value of x until you reach that L-1 value.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i thought i'd be learning that a lot later, but it came much sooner in bio achievement with chi squares...Which are used to test the amount of chance in an experiment. I may try this out if i'm bored.

[thingummywut]

 

...Natural logarithms would be the most logical choice for function, if you ask me.

 

 

 

But doesn't the slope of the Natural log function go the wrong way as the level increases?

 

 

 

Namely, the Exp curve looks exponential not logarithmic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, because of the discrete, non-infinite nature of the data we have,

 

 

 

we can never be sure of the exact function (supposing there even is one).

 

 

 

Yeah, that's why I'm curious as to where Phil's formula came from.

 

 

 

It's such a strange looking thing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

First note: You're right, it goes the wrong way. However, it's symmetric with the line y = x, so its inverse function is just what we need, that is the form e^x.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And my guess for the second one is that they just hand-drew a curve without thinking any exact formula for it. Then they took the values from that. Now, if you try to search the formula for it, you'll end up with crazy values. If there is an exact, beforehand determined function, I'd search for something like e^(f(x)), where f(x) is a simple function including only 1 or 2-decimal values.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can't really say anything about Phil's formula. I didn't understand the "floor" thing. Is it something computer-related? At least I haven't seen it in mathematics yet. Still, that formula looks a bit complicated to me. I don't believe a programmer would just invent a formula like that. Of course, I could be wrong and it could be the exact formula.

[LordSoultar]

I can't really say anything about Phil's formula. I didn't understand the "floor" thing. Is it something computer-related? At least I haven't seen it in mathematics yet. Still, that formula looks a bit complicated to me. I don't believe a programmer would just invent a formula like that. Of course, I could be wrong and it could be the exact formula.

 

 

 

Floor is a term used in most computer scripting/programming langauges and basically means to round the number that is being "floored" down to the nearest integer. It's the same as using the greatest-integer brackets.

[oolatuck]

The thing I find interesting is that at 200M xp in a skill (max xp you can have), you would be lvl 126.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

126 = max combat lvl.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Coincidence? :-k

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hmmm were jagex clever enough to make the maximum combat lvl work out into what the maximum lvl would be according to the maximum displayable exp? If so there would have to be some sort of link between how combat levels and how the exp per lvl works out.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i don't think that thier is before 30 but after 30 its pretty formula like with every 7 levels exp about doubling.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I doubt that, that would just be stupid really. Making up numbers until level 30 then having a set formula after?

[headshot007111]

I've worked out the ratios between lvls, but its still wierd:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It gets kind of stable at lvl 25. So basically after lvl 25, the xp between lvls is 10% more than the last lvl. But it's wierd for lvls under 25.

[LordSoultar]

I've worked out the ratios between lvls, but its still wierd:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It gets kind of stable at lvl 25. So basically after lvl 25, the xp between lvls is 10% more than the last lvl. But it's wierd for lvls under 25.

 

 

 

The reason for this is because the formula contains both a polynomial and an exponent. Because of the nature of exponents, at lower levels the polynomial will take precedence over the exponent yet at later levels the reverse will happen.

[Esper_Jones]

 

 

...Natural logarithms would be the most logical choice for function, if you ask me.

 

 

 

But doesn't the slope of the Natural log function go the wrong way as the level increases?

 

 

 

Namely, the Exp curve looks exponential not logarithmic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, because of the discrete, non-infinite nature of the data we have,

 

 

 

we can never be sure of the exact function (supposing there even is one).

 

 

 

Yeah, that's why I'm curious as to where Phil's formula came from.

 

 

 

It's such a strange looking thing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

First note: You're right, it goes the wrong way. However, it's symmetric with the line y = x, so its inverse function is just what we need, that is the form e^x.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And my guess for the second one is that they just hand-drew a curve without thinking any exact formula for it. Then they took the values from that. Now, if you try to search the formula for it, you'll end up with crazy values. If there is an exact, beforehand determined function, I'd search for something like e^(f(x)), where f(x) is a simple function including only 1 or 2-decimal values.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can't really say anything about Phil's formula. I didn't understand the "floor" thing. Is it something computer-related? At least I haven't seen it in mathematics yet. Still, that formula looks a bit complicated to me. I don't believe a programmer would just invent a formula like that. Of course, I could be wrong and it could be the exact formula.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Considering JageX is a computer programming company, I think that Phil's formula is very likely the one they used.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Floor and Ceiling are used in theoretical Computer Science, but aren't seen in upper level mathematics. I'm a dual major in college, and I have only seen them in the Computer Level side, not the Mathematics side.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The two are basically rounding functions, to the integer. Floor of 1.7 is 1, and ceiling of 1.2 is 2. So they basically push the number either up or down.

[Goobore]

...my guess for the second one is that they just hand-drew a curve without

 

 

 

thinking any exact formula for it. Then they took the values from that.

 

 

 

The brief analysis that I did earlier shows that the data shows

 

 

 

some very predictable and "smooth" properties.

 

 

 

I would not expect that data taken from a graph would be accurate to 7 decimal places (for levels 74+)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...Now, if you try to search the formula for it, you'll end up with crazy values.

 

 

 

If there is an exact, beforehand determined function, I'd search for something like e^(f(x)),

 

 

 

where f(x) is a simple function including only 1 or 2-decimal values.

 

 

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

 

 

 

An exponential plus polynomial function was presented earlier that fits the data perfectly.

[Goobore]

 

I've worked out the ratios between lvls, but its still wierd:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It gets kind of stable at lvl 25. So basically after lvl 25, the xp between lvls is 10% more than the last lvl. But it's wierd for lvls under 25.

 

 

 

The reason for this is because the formula contains both a polynomial and an exponent. Because of the nature of exponents, at lower levels the polynomial will take precedence over the exponent yet at later levels the reverse will happen.

 

 

 

Also, if you look at Wally's formula he uses 2^(Level/7)

 

 

 

So, the ratio between to adjacent levels would be dominated by 2^(1/7)

 

 

 

That's 1.104089 and you "see" it in the table.

[Goobore]

...make the maximum combat lvl work out

 

 

 

into what the maximum lvl would be according to the maximum displayable exp?

 

 

 

If so there would have to be some sort of link between how combat levels and how the exp per lvl works out.....

 

 

 

Well, overall combat level is determined by your individual combat level stats, and not by your exp in those stats.

 

 

 

So, all Jagex needed to do was come up with a weighted average formula

 

 

 

that generated 126+ if all of the inputs were 99

[thingummywut]

 

I can't really say anything about Phil's formula. I didn't understand the "floor" thing. Is it something computer-related? At least I haven't seen it in mathematics yet. Still, that formula looks a bit complicated to me. I don't believe a programmer would just invent a formula like that. Of course, I could be wrong and it could be the exact formula.

 

 

 

Floor is a term used in most computer scripting/programming langauges and basically means to round the number that is being "floored" down to the nearest integer. It's the same as using the greatest-integer brackets.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ah, if this is the case, then Phil's formula could be exactly what Andrew (or Paul?) thought when they programmed the game. At least it's a lot higher chance than polynomials with terms like 19383.3983298023805325238638249235792375....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But again, since the data is discrete, there's an infinite amount of 100% fitting functions. So we can never be sure unless we get some info from Jagex.

[primadog]

If you're not comfortable to to summation, you can use this formula instead:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

note: that formulation is done because summation of geometric series and linear series can be calculated with the following:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

a, ar, arr, arrr, arrr

 

 

 

sum of that = ar(1-ar^x)/(1-r)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1,2,3,4,5

 

 

 

sum = (x)(x+1) / 2

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, because of the different way they're rounded down, the above formula will be off by a few points.

[Enrico1992]

If you're not comfortable to to summation, you can use this formula instead:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks, I think a lot more people will understand it now (including me).

[Goobore]

If you're not comfortable to to summation, you can use this formula instead:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, because of the different way they're rounded down, the above formula will be off by a few points.

 

 

 

IIRC, from Wally's post, he derived the above formula (without the Rounddowns)

 

 

 

and then fixed it to be 100% accurate.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To fix it he increased the quadratic polynomial x*(x+1) to be a 5th degree poly

 

 

 

and then did a Least Squares curve fit to get perfect 100% accuracy.

[Myweponsg00d]

 

 

 

as for my second answer, i shall let my 2 associates explain why their are lvls

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

rofl :lol:

[englandman66]

I made a graph using Tip Its XP Table but i dont know how to host it

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~Englandman66

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If it matters i used excel

[Goobore]

I made a graph using Tip Its XP Table...

 

 

 

In case anyone cares, you can find graphs here and here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Other threads on this topic are here and here.

[Kaioke]

Maybe they just came up with random numbers. :-$

If they came up with just random numbers, then they'd have to create a code for every single level for every single skill. That's 3k more vars than now. 3k more vars doesn't seem like a lot, but imagine 3k*2k = 6,000,000 more vars walking around on the server. That's a lot. Plus, it's just easier to make an algorithm for the levels.

[ugafan_2009]

I've worked out the ratios between lvls, but its still wierd:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It gets kind of stable at lvl 25. So basically after lvl 25, the xp between lvls is 10% more than the last lvl. But it's wierd for lvls under 25.

Forget my theory lol...good work.

[xSxqPowerx]

Interesting... :-k

 

 

 

Anyway, I kinda get it. I just haven't learned a lot of that stuff yet, I'm in grade 10 math at the moment.

[Kenshinjapan]

Please don't make me do math on the weekend :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray: :pray:

[aucoin]

Probably about the formula how the exp needed for each level is determined.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Found this at http://www.mirwoj.opus.chelm.pl/rs/index.php?pid=b04 :

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

eww calculus, get it away my exam is in 3 days :?

[Quasar889]

Nothing that we have done is calculus. This is actually a great example of statistics in action.

 

 

 

We're trying to fit a regression model to a curve.

 

 

 

And who was the person who was dual majoring?

 

 

 

Floor and Ceiling functions are used all the time. At your level, I'm sure you're familiar with the formula for finding the trailing zeroes on the end of a factorial.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fun math Question: Find the amount of trailing zeroes on the number (2006!)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When I get to school tomorrow, I'll plug all of our data into Mathematica, and have it come up with a closed form approixmation to 100 significant digits. I'll then post the generating function.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It SHOULD be fairly accurate.