All discussion here: Jan 2, 2006 - Rule 7 and Rule 9 Updated

[handman003]

its fixed! yayz! XD

[muggiwhplar]

 

 

If its not an advantage then why is everyone getting so upset, you should be able to play like other people. :-w

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

by others so you mean ss or rs... cause that is where the problem lies

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If SS is not an advantage then the new rule should not have caused the spam and riots that it did. Having things easier is an advantage, whether you want to admit that or not. :roll:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The reason they updated the rules was because people were getting scammed in the IRC client add-on of SS, not because of SS's "advantages."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You have as much of a right as everybody else does to use the "advantage," you just choose not to.

[handman003]

its fixed! yayz! XD

[Doughnut]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The reason they updated the rules was because people were getting scammed in the IRC client add-on of SS, not because of SS's "advantages."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You have as much of a right as everybody else does to use the "advantage," you just choose not to.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Show me proof. I highly doubt thats the reason to the rule change.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I will use it once it gets updated, but I am saying if its not that big of an "advantage" then why is everyone getting so upset.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Handman003 - No need to double post things, especially when the double post is 3 minutes apart. :roll:

[riakk]

 

 

 

If its not an advantage then why is everyone getting so upset, you should be able to play like other people. :-w

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

by others so you mean ss or rs... cause that is where the problem lies

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If SS is not an advantage then the new rule should not have caused the spam and riots that it did. Having things easier is an advantage, whether you want to admit that or not. :roll:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The reason they updated the rules was because people were getting scammed in the IRC client add-on of SS, not because of SS's "advantages."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You have as much of a right as everybody else does to use the "advantage," you just choose not to.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

well said son!!!

[riakk]

its fixed! yayz! XD

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

whats fixed?

[muggiwhplar]

 

The reason they updated the rules was because people were getting scammed in the IRC client add-on of SS, not because of SS's "advantages."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You have as much of a right as everybody else does to use the "advantage," you just choose not to.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Show me proof. I highly doubt thats the reason to the rule change.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Proof:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We have updated Rule 7 and Rule 9 to clarify some long standing grey areas, and to cover some recent threats. Please take the time to re-read both rules and make sure you fully understand them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The reason for this update is both to clarify some very frequently asked questions, and also to help address recent threats which have been harming our players. In particular we have extended rule 7 to make it clear that it DOES now include third party RuneScape clients/world switchers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We have done this for two main reasons:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. The sheer number of users losing their account/password to programs which pretend to be one thing but actually steal their password;

 

 

 

2. Problems with some of these programs including extremely unsafe chat channels where large amounts of scamming go on, and users encourage each other to try to break the rules.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When RuneScape fansites are distributing programs which are then used to discuss breaking the rules or result in their own users being scammed, it's clear that our rules need revision! We don't want to be unnecessarily restrictive, but we obviously also have to balance that with protecting our users. We've thought long and hard about this, and hence this update.

[Doughnut]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The reason they updated the rules was because people were getting scammed in the IRC client add-on of SS, not because of SS's "advantages."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You have as much of a right as everybody else does to use the "advantage," you just choose not to.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Show me proof. I highly doubt thats the reason to the rule change.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Proof:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We have updated Rule 7 and Rule 9 to clarify some long standing grey areas, and to cover some recent threats. Please take the time to re-read both rules and make sure you fully understand them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The reason for this update is both to clarify some very frequently asked questions, and also to help address recent threats which have been harming our players. In particular we have extended rule 7 to make it clear that it DOES now include third party RuneScape clients/world switchers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We have done this for two main reasons:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. The sheer number of users losing their account/password to programs which pretend to be one thing but actually steal their password;

 

 

 

2. Problems with some of these programs including extremely unsafe chat channels where large amounts of scamming go on, and users encourage each other to try to break the rules.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When RuneScape fansites are distributing programs which are then used to discuss breaking the rules or result in their own users being scammed, it's clear that our rules need revision! We don't want to be unnecessarily restrictive, but we obviously also have to balance that with protecting our users. We've thought long and hard about this, and hence this update.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

#-o ... I got pwned

[muggiwhplar]

:P

[riakk]

yep... out of everyone... i think you muggi know exactly what your talking about and have evidence to back it up... weldone!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and yes doughnut... YOU GOT PWND!!! :XD:

[Trojann2]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The reason they updated the rules was because people were getting scammed in the IRC client add-on of SS, not because of SS's "advantages."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You have as much of a right as everybody else does to use the "advantage," you just choose not to.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Show me proof. I highly doubt thats the reason to the rule change.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Proof:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We have updated Rule 7 and Rule 9 to clarify some long standing grey areas, and to cover some recent threats. Please take the time to re-read both rules and make sure you fully understand them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The reason for this update is both to clarify some very frequently asked questions, and also to help address recent threats which have been harming our players. In particular we have extended rule 7 to make it clear that it DOES now include third party RuneScape clients/world switchers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We have done this for two main reasons:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. The sheer number of users losing their account/password to programs which pretend to be one thing but actually steal their password;

 

 

 

2. Problems with some of these programs including extremely unsafe chat channels where large amounts of scamming go on, and users encourage each other to try to break the rules.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When RuneScape fansites are distributing programs which are then used to discuss breaking the rules or result in their own users being scammed, it's clear that our rules need revision! We don't want to be unnecessarily restrictive, but we obviously also have to balance that with protecting our users. We've thought long and hard about this, and hence this update.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

#-o ... I got pwned

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's why you NEVER debate somthing unless you know ALL the facts, buddy. :)

[Spheric1]

It's nice to see Jagex backing down a bit. They are allowing Strider to make some modifications to SS and will then allow it again. They also lifted my 10 day mute by a mod today, after only 1 day. I don't think they knew how bad their simple "rule change" would go over with customers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks, Jagex, for listening.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

P.S. These are the newest guidelines regarding third party browsers and clients from the Runescape Knowledge Base:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Third party client authors' guidelines

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This page is intended to give advice to authors of third party clients. Players should still be aware that we do not endorse or recommend the use of such software.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This page does not describe a new rule. This does not add anything not already implied by our fifteen main rules, so unless you are trying to write a third party client that can be used within our rules, or trying to determine if a particular client is allowed for use, you probably do not need to read it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nor does this aim to prohibit what you can or cannot create. Rather, it gives you advice on how to make software which is not prohibited for use by our players under Rule 7. This may be of interest if you wish to a) not endanger other peoples' accounts, B) ensure the maximum possible audience for your program, as many users will be put off using your software if to do so they have to break a rule themselves and risk being banned.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some things to bear in mind:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When viewing a free world on a computer display with a resolution higher than 800 x 600, the game pane should default to at least 630 pixels high, and must not be able to scroll vertically. I.e. the game pane must be displayed in such a way that both the game and advert are fully visible at the same time (otherwise it encourages users to break Rule 15).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The program should not allow worlds marked as 'FULL' on the world select page to be selected (otherwise it encourages users to break Rule 7 - unfair advantage).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If the program has its own integrated chat feature separate from the RuneScape chat, it should make it very clear to users that this chat is not part of RuneScape and is not official, endorsed or moderated by Jagex in any way. Furthermore, this chat should still be moderated (just not by us), and the moderators should not allow chat which infringes our rules of conduct. All the rules are important, but in particular if Rule 3 or Rule 9 are regularly breached on the external chat, the program will be considered to endanger users or encourage rule breaking. To avoid confusion with the official RuneScape chat, moderators of the external chat should not be indicated with a silver or gold crown. If the chat is IRC based, then the program should only allow access to IRC channels which conform with the above.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The program should not contain adverts or links to websites which encourage rule breaking or endanger users.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We may update this list from time to time to keep it current, hence this is not intended to be an exhaustive list, simply some things to think about. In general, for the program to be allowed for users to use under Rule 7, it must not do anything which encourages rules breaking or endangers users.

[riakk]

yeah im glad its been changed again... but we gotta wait for strider to get this update done so we can have a ss that is officially legal

[Doughnut]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's why you NEVER debate somthing unless you know ALL the facts, buddy. :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I read the update and I don't remember them saying that though. Ah well tis my fault for being an [wagon]. *sigh*

[Trojann2]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's why you NEVER debate somthing unless you know ALL the facts, buddy. :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I read the update and I don't remember them saying that though. Ah well tis my fault for being an [wagon]. *sigh*

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That then makes what I said all the more true. :wink:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Starting to look like SS supporters have won this thread. :)

[riakk]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's why you NEVER debate somthing unless you know ALL the facts, buddy. :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I read the update and I don't remember them saying that though. Ah well tis my fault for being an [wagon]. *sigh*

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That then makes what I said all the more true. :wink:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Starting to look like SS supporters have won this thread. :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

it does look abit like this argument has turned in favous of ss not being banned yes, i'd say so

[wakka102]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's why you NEVER debate somthing unless you know ALL the facts, buddy. :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I read the update and I don't remember them saying that though. Ah well tis my fault for being an [wagon]. *sigh*

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That then makes what I said all the more true. :wink:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Starting to look like SS supporters have won this thread. :)

SS supporters unite! KABLAAAAA!!!!

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

Before the thread is closed and before you all host a celebration party, let me leave you with a few of these words.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You may think that this is perfectly fine. You may think that it will abide with the rules. I regret to inform you that something may happen to all client users that shouldn't come as much of a shock.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Have you ever read RuneScape's Terms+Conditions?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Firstly, before I get into the nitty gritty, I'd like to call your attention to this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You must not reverse-engineer, decompile or modify the Game client software in any way. You must not use a modified/customised version of the client software. You must not create or provide any other means by which the Game may be played by others (including, without limitation, replacement or modified client/server software, server emulators).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As far as I understand it, this FAQ page hasn't been updated in several years. This turn of events only happened recently, but why is everyone so quick to ignore the fine print of their contract that they implicitly signed with Jagex? (And yes, you did sign a contract with them when you created an account with them.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Per that clause, then the following is bound to happen as well:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If, acting reasonably, we consider that our terms and conditions have or may have been breached, or that it is necessary in order to prevent or stop any harm or damage to us, the Game, other players or the general public or to minimize our liability to others, we reserve the right with or without prior notice to (amongst other things): Terminate (as defined above) or modify any or all accounts of the Game (or any of our other games) which we think are connected with you and/or otherwise block your access to our websites and services and take such other steps as we consider reasonable. Such actions may result in loss of membership credit without refund and/or loss of real money paid as part of any item / account trading or other prohibited transaction.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's right. Per your legally-binding contract with Jagex, you can actually lose your account over something as simple as convenience. Do you want to lose all those hours that you spent in the Fight Caves? Do you wish to lose all that time spent in the Mining Guild just so you could hit 85? Do you wish to lose any more of your RuneScape memories, or would you rather not risk it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You have to realise that Jagex as a company can and will decide what clients you may or may not use to connect to their servers, either for their security or yours. Take advantage of their patience with you and err on the side of caution.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But, if you choose not to, and I wasted a lot of my energy talking, these forums shouldn't be cluttered with "OMFG I GOT BANNED FOR USING THIS CLIENT".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, one last note:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Despite popular opinion - the so called "rioters" were not a particular influence on our decision.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This will be an interesting month indeed. I wish you all the best (of luck).

[riakk]

yes some good pointers there... but o well... jagex just contradicted himself!!! :XD: heh heh :XD:

[moopymitchell182]

yes some good pointers there... but o well... jagex just contradicted himself!!! :XD: heh heh :XD:

You know Jagex is a company, right? :-s

[riakk]

 

yes some good pointers there... but o well... jagex just contradicted himself!!! :XD: heh heh :XD:

You know Jagex is a company, right? :-s

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

yeah... i just say that in generalisation... oh nvm

[Guest]

Are good! Jagex don't hate their paying customers after all! Phew.. they scared me for a while. Thank God their not treating us like 7 year olds now and are allowing SS back in.

[Spheric1]

Firstly, before I get into the nitty gritty, I'd like to call your attention to this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You must not reverse-engineer, decompile or modify the Game client software in any way. You must not use a modified/customised version of the client software. You must not create or provide any other means by which the Game may be played by others (including, without limitation, replacement or modified client/server software, server emulators).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As far as I understand it, this FAQ page hasn't been updated in several years. This turn of events only happened recently, but why is everyone so quick to ignore the fine print of their contract that they implicitly signed with Jagex? (And yes, you did sign a contract with them when you created an account with them.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry Makoto, but you misunderstand what a browser like SS is. It absolutely doesn't "reverse-engineer, decompile or modify the Game client software." It is not "a modified/customised version of the client software." It does not "create or provide any other means by which the Game may be played by others" and it is not "replacement or modified client/server software" or "server emulator" software. It accesses the game exactly the same way as any other browser like IE or Firefox does. That is why it has been legal all along.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The "grey" areas had to do advertising and adding unfair advantages. While the software itself did not disable advertising, it did allow the user to do so themselves which breaks the rules. So, even though the software didn't break the rules, it "encouraged" users to do so. It is arguable whether the "world switcher" feature gave users an unfair advantage. The creator of SS always argued that it didn't because you couldn't use the software to switch worlds faster (in crowded world situations, it is actually slower). But, it did keep you from having to get carpal tunnel syndrome from repeated clicking on the full world. This can be argued as giving an advantage because many players would not bother to try to get into the world if they had to continuously click over and over again. And also, if you couldn't get into the new world, you weren't logged out of the old one, so you wouldn't have to log back into it. That could also be considered an advantage. But, by bookmarking the world in IE, you get the same advantages, so this is all very debatable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The fair trade laws of most countries (and internationally) abhor companies restricting third parties from creating products based on their existing product. It's a way of trying to "corner the market." This would be like GM saying that you can only use GM air cleaners in their cars. Lexmark lost in court when they tried to void people's warranties for using third party toner cartridges. I think Jagex comes very close to committing the same error when they try to say which browser can or can't be used with their product. But, the "newest" version of Rule 7 brings them back into better compliance with the intent of widely recognized fair trade laws, in my humble opinion.

[tomdavies90]

actually it doesn't block adverts in f2p merely hides them you can still hear them load and they will still cause lag

[Spheric1]

actually it doesn't block adverts in f2p merely hides them you can still hear them load and they will still cause lag

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, you are absolutely correct. But, actually removing the ads would have required "modification" to the stream and so would have been completely illegal. Allowing the user to "hide" them was a way around that. I feel Jagex has a right to require that the full display as they provide it be seen by the user. What they are requiring now is that third parties don't provide any method for users to get around that rule and I feel they have a right to do so.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

P.S. Actually, it always appeared to me that the "shift up" option in SS was more an attempt to make the f2p display fit into the existing template rather than hide ads anyway. That's what I thought, anyway.