Kevin Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 Sorry, Ginger_Warrior, I can't think very clearly when I'm frustrated. But really, the thing that gets to me on this is that how little effect we have on RuneScape. I feel like serfs in the middle ages.. Here's the thing, though, no matter how many people want it changed, they may not care because this is economic. It's no longer "Oh, we can't do this because some people might suffer from it" it's that Jagex are not happy with their income. That doesn't mean we have no power so I we have to keep ranting. (I made an edit to this before, but I doubt anyone that read my previous post will read it again so I'll repeat, we can't make the rants in the Rants forum in the official forum, instead we have to go to customer support from the main page and go to "Complaints" where we can put in a small 400 characters) Also, when I said we can't be idle, I meant we shouldn't do nothing, but we can't go too far. Also, Ginger_Warrior, I think "extreme" was a bit of a bad word to use since it kinda wasn't, but in general we have to be sure we don't do anything stupid even if we're not trying to. For example, if we all SPAMed the forums we'd just get banned and nothing would come of it. Remember that when we're ranting we're not AGAINST them, we're with them but we need a change. And yes, I know I wrote some rubbish here and there, it's because I can't get my thoughts together. (Btw, it's probably best to tell are your buds that might care for this to help, I'm not saying tip.it isn't popular but some people don't read tip.it articles and the update is nearly impossible to notice if you aren't truly alert. We need a good amount of people to give their support for things like this.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvus Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 tekilla this shouldn't affect the calcs since those require the user to make a request by hitting the button and it only updates when the button is hit. anyway wilderness luring hasn't been against the rules for at least a few months if ever to my knowledge and it makes sense because you get a warning about the dangers of the wilderness every time you log in so it's not really like it's their fault that you didn't listen, but i still think it is wrong to do because it is still taking a persons items. the sigs seem like they have a rather simple fix to comply and that is that the website re programs it to update when the user hits a button on the site(much like tip.it's calcs) Thanks to DrCue at DeviantArt for the signature source Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cha0sx Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 J One inappropriatly threatened me with my account if I didn't stop posting perfectly valid arguments that criticised Jagex ever so slightly. So much for a free speech... Well in britain the bill of rights means nothing, and so does free speech. --------------------- I agree with some of the points but people are getting too mad just cause some new stuff doesn't come out. When I see people with mediocre skills and things complaining I get mad because they should try and see all the great stuff that's already in the game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romking Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 allright read a bit to much whining Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracion1 Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 I suppose there are a few things JaGex could do to solve the problems. I think we could be seeing some more updates over the next few weeks, to solve some of the current issues (perhaps some official signatures?). Otherwise, a good read. =D> (And free speech is allowed in Britain. Just ask someone who lives there ) "In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liljjp Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 nice read.. =D> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wouter828 Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 wow man great article, I hate the travelling dialoges :evil: What I don't get is why JaGex changed rule number 7 and not make it front page news, I thought they lived for making rules :wall: well anyway thanx for the article =D> Click here for my blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimson Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 They didn't announce it because they didn't want another 1-2-07. I would put a cool link here but I don't know how. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellbellz Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 Nice read, I'm agreeing 100% with pretty much everything the Editor talks about. I hate the dialoges, and iTunes + RS music is horrific! Maybe if Jagex found out how annoying some things of their game is, they'd change them. I doubt they wouldn't because the little things like dialoges won't affect their jobs really, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jockthebrave Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 Ginger, I agree completely about the forums. About a month ago, I found a well thought out thread about how runescape had been dumbed down for 9 year olds. There were at least three mod supporters. The guy said he had decided to give up on his thread because it was a lost cause and that if we wanted we could keep it alive. Withing minutes a mod came along, told us to stop bumping and that the guy had obviously given up on it, and locked it in seconds. I think that lot had been wanting to get rid of this thing for ages there were almost 600+supporters! Freedom of speech does exist in Britain ask anybody who lives there before you make uninformed comments :shame: don't click this link... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jemathonical Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 Another great read. I am getting so intruiged in the times ^Sir Jem 05-The Bunny Drinking Blog?^ Click it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ltje Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 A REALLY good article. But what my opinion is, isn't that interesting. I'm hoping far more for a response from Jagex. Although I highly agree with the article. What irritates me the most, is, I guess, the fact that they destroy the whole idea of an RPG. Ofcourse, it's nice to be warned sometimes, before you go to somewhere really dangerous, like the Wilderniss. But a RPG is about you're own choices. If you choose bad, you loose. Big deal. Jagex tries to tell us somewhere in the KB that this game is educating, but it would be educating if we see the consequences of our choices. Retired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyMcNabb Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 I'm slowly beginning to think this belongs in the rants section of the TIF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. V. Devnull Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 Alright, I have read the responses so far, read the article, and seen what has been happening. Heck, as you can see from my sig as of the date of this post (It will probably change again after March 24th, 2007!), I have been affected by it, which makes me pretty angry. Personally, I fully agree with The Editor, and I definitely like the article they wrote. Jagex has set themselves up to get trapped in an avalanche of profit loss from people leaving. They've failed to resolve many problems, and only had more problems creep up on them. Further, I also almost think that Jagex is trying to turn RuneScape into yet another "Stick RPG"... I've been seeing more and more complaints from people with "Pure" accounts, and it annoys me that I end up having to hear this at all! :x ... And even for us who only have "Non-Pure" accounts, we seem to hit early boundaries and limits that just make us want to do [insert violent thing here] to Jagex. Bah, I'm too frustrated to type further about the issues. You can see it in my typing too! Off-topic: Hmm, the writing style matches up with someone else here. Oh great, they've told me who The Editor is at this time. Well, one good thing, at least... I won't tell anyone else, no matter what they try to do to me, including PK me in wildi or spam my PM box... Heck, no one gets the chance to kill me in wildi anyway. :lol: ~Mr. Devnull and normally with a cool mind.(Warning: This user can be VERY confusing to some people... And talks in 3rd person for the timebeing due to how insane they are... Sometimes even to themself.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azzazeal Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 I agree whole heartedly withh The Editor. The constant stream of kiddy updates has to stop; why did quests have to go from apocoliptic demon saying and dragon killing to talking to penguins? Great article, one of the best =D> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. V. Devnull Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 why did quests have to go from apocoliptic demon saying and dragon killing to talking to penguins? Probably someone told Jagex that they shouldn't be doing violence in games. :( ... Great, there goes the one place where we can blow off mental steam. ... ~Mr. Devnull and normally with a cool mind.(Warning: This user can be VERY confusing to some people... And talks in 3rd person for the timebeing due to how insane they are... Sometimes even to themself.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashozzy2 Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 great piece, I agree with the whole idea of Jagex and the third party clients, surely they should be supporting developers who realy have the same goal as jagex, to get people to play the game, instead of constantly making their work illegal. Also I feel they have been quite sneaky by not publishing these rules updates on the main page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azzazeal Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 J One inappropriatly threatened me with my account if I didn't stop posting perfectly valid arguments that criticised Jagex ever so slightly. So much for a free speech... Well in britain the bill of rights means nothing, and so does free speech. --------------------- I agree with some of the points but people are getting too mad just cause some new stuff doesn't come out. When I see people with mediocre skills and things complaining I get mad because they should try and see all the great stuff that's already in the game! Now I resent that coment about Britain. We have just as much free speech as other nations! I connot express how much your post angered me, its insulting me and my country and I suggest you edit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron8000 Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 This intense kind of whinery is really starting to irritate me with Runescape. Every time there is a rule change that irritates somebody - they whine, they never quit, but they moan constantly. I really think that people need to realise that Jagex is a private company, nothing more, with absolutely no obligation whatsoever to their customers other than providing the services they say they will provide. Remeber that Terms and Conditions you clicked past so quickly whilst signing up? That was the one that told you that Runescape and your account is the property of Jagex and they can make any change they like, whenever they like - It is very much Jagex's baby and will always remain so - to think that they will ever change is foolish. The comment about bandwidth, onec again it is Jagex's bandwidth, they can do whatever they like with it, and if they feel that it is being misused they are entirely within their rights to change how it is used - i.e. the banning of stat sigs - whilst simultaneously having no obligation to provide an alternative, it was not part of what Jagex said they would provide and as such they can ban it at any time. "1) Jagex is trying to have too much control. I see nothing wrong with SwiftSwitch". This is again wrong, Jagex has and always will have complete control, there may be nothing wrong with SwiftSwitch in your eyes true, but there is something wrong with it in Jagex's and its their opinion that matters. The forums - has nothing to do with the bill of rights, the freedom of speech acts or the Human rights acts - all these state is that nobody can stop you sayin it yourself - Jagex is only stopping you using its privately owned forums for it - a perfectly legal right. It is very much in vogue at the moment it seems to slander Jagex, this is wrong, that is wrong, all helped by the annonymity of the internet and in some cases I believe a need to look big or rebellious, how many of the complainers stop playing RS? How many actually stop playing as a result? Very few. These issues are evidently not enough to stop people paying for RS so it is a simple case of like it, or lump it - that is the nature of capitilism, business and tertiary industry - if you dont like it, get out, or stop moaning - if RS ever stopped being fun or interesting for me (due to updates or other) I would stop paying; its the only power you have, get used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginger_Warrior Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 ^ It infuriates me as well. Is the only way to obtain a freedom of speech through legislation? The very essence of a Democracy is that every has a say in how the country is run (although if you looked around the world, Putin for example, you'd swear differently) I dunno, maybe I am being a little bit too aggresive in my approach to Jagex. But the way I look at it it's either gonna be me hinting at Jagex aggresively to do something, or a whole host of younger, less articulate, players who will SPAM up the rants forum. We all seem very bleak here but one thing that I'd like to point out is that RS isn't actually dying... yet. The population of RS is constantly growing, and the stats on Wikipedia seem to get updated to match this every single week. However, I think the problem that Jagex face is exactly the point about "little kiddies". For any game, especially an RPG, there needs to be a group of intellects and creative thinkers, who can come up with new ways that updates can be improved, and how the updates can be executed. With any other company (even Nintendo included in that - and they have the worst record for PR ever, believe me, I've seen it!) this happens. But Jagex constantly push aside this group of people. Sometimes I wonder if us making our suggestions actually put the nail in that suggestion's coffin. Because, as far as I recall, there' only been one suggestion form a player that Jagex have EVER used - a paniced response to the Rule 7 & 9 updates. I'm just starting to get really infuriated. I've been trying to excuse Jagex for a few months now, using the excuse "well they don't have that much staff, and these things take time anyway". This still holds true, but it only counts for updates Jagex builds from start to finish. Jagex are fine to continue their stream of quests, but all I'm asking for is that the suggestions you here from intelligent players really should be listened to a lot more than they are now. Autoers, pures (and no matter what you say, Jagex does not like pures!), scammers, lurers, noobs - the list goes on and on. They still exist. Yet you can bet that there's a very good, simple solution that, although would't get rid of it altogether, would certainly do a lot. For example: Problem - people complaining about noobs in Barbarian Assault. Solution - make them do a quiz upon leaving the tutorial, so they know how to play it, instead of just going clicky-clicky and skipping everything. There are sooo many big problems with RS that I think Jagex just take as part of the game, without belief (or perhaps just apethy) that these things can be combated. Either that or Andrew and Paul want to keep full control over the game. We're not asking for power! We're just asking some kind of ear that listens to our suggestions! | Favourite Game Music | Last.fm | HYT Friend Chat Rules | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron8000 Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 Is the only way to obtain a freedom of speech through legislation? I covered that, you have freedom of speech, you can write anything you like about Jagex, they also have freedom of enterprise and as such can decide what they do and do not show on their own forums - If I wrote a letter to the Times or the Guardian about all their failings would you expect them to publish it? Jagex isnt stopping you writing on this forum about it, hence freedom of speech is retained. Either that or Andrew and Paul want to keep full control over the game. Of course they do, its their game, why wouldnt they want control over it? We're not asking for power! We're just asking some kind of ear that listens to our suggestions! I suppose there is the suggestions forum, I have no experience of it personally but i presume only the very best ideas are taken in - wasn't castle wars or similar from a player suggestion? With Jagex being a private company they are again under no obligation to even allow suggestions, let alone enact them - it would be nice it they would, but they don't and that remains entirely their choice, the only way to make suggestions would be to never expect them to be chosen - Jagex owes nobody anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginger_Warrior Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 Jagex isnt stopping you writing on this forum about it, hence freedom of speech is retained. Probably because they are no position to stop me writing what I like on here... what I write here is Tip.It's decision and if Tip.it ever became as censored as the Official RS Forums are, then I'd be doing exactly the same for Tip.It as I am doing for Jagex... Of course they do, its their game, why wouldnt they want control over it? Read closer at my point. I said "full control". Of course they want to keep control of it, but as a lot people keep saying, the baby has to grow someday, and the Gowers need to just 'let it go' a bit. I suppose there is the suggestions forum, I have no experience of it personally but i presume only the very best ideas are taken in - wasn't castle wars or similar from a player suggestion? With Jagex being a private company they are again under no obligation to even allow suggestions, let alone enact them - it would be nice it they would, but they don't and that remains entirely their choice, the only way to make suggestions would be to never expect them to be chosen - Jagex owes nobody anything. As I said in my post, Jagex have only ever (as far as I know) released one minor update, suggested by a player, to a rule which they really messed up badly. If you read the news on the RS front page (it has now since been deleted), the language and the tone the news article was written in, seemed to imply Jagex didn't actually have a clue what to do, so they really had no option. The fact remains is that probably hardly any suggestions actually get a second look at them. They're not under any obligation to, your right, but it's fast becoming the case where players are getting fed up with half-baked updates that we know we could have done a better job of ourselves, and that we know would appeal to people more our age group. Not dumbed down quests, aimed at 10 year olds quite frankly. | Favourite Game Music | Last.fm | HYT Friend Chat Rules | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron8000 Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 Probably because they are no position to stop me writing what I like on here... what I write here is Tip.It's decision and if Tip.it ever became as censored as the Official RS Forums are, then I'd be doing exactly the same for Tip.It as I am doing for Jagex... Then we are agreed, Jagex is acting perfectly legally on its own forums, and allowing free speech on the others (whether they like it/can do anything about it is irrelevant - they can't do anything because of freedom of speech working how it should) Read closer at my point. I said "full control". Of course they want to keep control of it, but as a lot people keep saying, the baby has to grow someday, and the Gowers need to just 'let it go' a bit. Why? why do they have to let go of it? It may be detrimental to their profits if they don't eventually but that is entirely their concern - I believe if they did let it go and went public then it would get worse; anybody "owning" RS would be in the stock market and therefore out solely for profit and unlikely to care at all for gamers. As I said in my post, Jagex have only ever (as far as I know) released one minor update, suggested by a player, to a rule which they really messed up badly. If you read the news on the RS front page (it has now since been deleted), the language and the tone the news article was written in, seemed to imply Jagex didn't actually have a clue what to do, so they really had no option. The fact remains is that probably hardly any suggestions actually get a second look at them. They're not under any obligation to, your right, but it's fast becoming the case where players are getting fed up with half-baked updates that we know we could have done a better job of ourselves, and that we know would appeal to people more our age group. Not dumbed down quests, aimed at 10 year olds quite frankly. Unfortunately these people are never fed up enough to do anything about it - i.e. Quit. I completely understand that people may be unhappy with the direction Jagex is taking and thats entirely correct but to sit and moan will never get anything done - only by quitting/cancelling membership will cause any concern to Jagex and many refuse to put their money (or indeed abscence of it) where their mouth is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredz Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 I just wanted to show my support for this article. 21 lag piles, 4 Pjs, 2 Party hat kills, 67 newbs teached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredz Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 ... Unfortunately these people are never fed up enough to do anything about it - i.e. Quit. I completely understand that people may be unhappy with the direction Jagex is taking and thats entirely correct but to sit and moan will never get anything done - only by quitting/cancelling membership will cause any concern to Jagex and many refuse to put their money (or indeed abscence of it) where their mouth is. What are you talking about? The reason we "rant" (as you probably would say) is because we care about Runescape. Most of us (the now 20years old + players) have been playing Runescape since 2001 or early 2002. We have invested tons of hours into this game, and rather than just quit we want to tell whats going on so it could be changed to the better of the game. Quitting is just the same as saying, "I lost". And trust me we don't want to loose. We want to change the game for the better. Because we care about it. - 21 lag piles, 4 Pjs, 2 Party hat kills, 67 newbs teached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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