compfreak847

GWD: 85+ melees, or 90+ range for Kree DKS: 80+ defence, 70+ mage, 60+ prayer for mage; 80+ melee\range stats for hybrid KQ: 80+ melees Get your stats somewhere between 85-90 and you should be good; the higher they are the easier it is to find a team

If you learn it, you can flick any prayer with any weapon except darts and knives. Animations have nothing to do with it. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about. And I do too. As a rough guesstimate, I've spent around 70 hours flicking prayer on various monsters, on a high speed cable connection over a CAT6a gigabit network with a 2000 DPI ultra fast response mouse. Animations have everything to do with it; a weapon like the whip has a longer time when there is no animation, making it more difficult to guess precisely when you can flick on prayer, allowing for network lag; a weapon that 'freezes' you in place and has a longer animation, like rune crossbow, makes it much easier to flick with.

Not sure if that was sarcasm, but.. welcome to tip.it :P

It has nothing to do with luck. I've learned the right technique and timing. Staying away from melee distance and antifire stuff are 100% protection when ranging metal dragons (no, not mithril), so the only needed prayers are boosting. Yes, I know that ranging has nothing to do with the torso, but I was trying to prove that it is possible to flick without ever needing prayer restoration. Crossbow is much easier to switch with then whip due to the long animation. And that has nothing whatsoever to do with torso :|

No such thing as random in a logic-based computer game. Statistically speaking, you are very unlikely to obtain certain items, making them 'rare'. It's your imagination, or to be more specific, your human brain attempting to find and recognize patterns where there is none. Clue drops are too rare to ascertain a pattern from just a few drops, but your brain tries to anyway. Not so far as we know, I would assume not. By 'the harder the clue', they mean level 3 have better rewards then level 2 etc. Nothing. Clues are garbage. They are a waste of time, not worth doing and certainly not worth farming. Send an appeal in to Jagex to beef up rewards, or leave the scrolls on the ground.

78, you almost hit max in an hour >.< Lies. 77 is max with void, you have to go +175 strength with bandos for that magical 78.

Mining - 45k\hour break even Runecrafting - 50k per hour, with profit, at ZMI Hitpoints - you'll hit 99 before you max out your other stats; I'm barely 99 strength\defence, and 98 attack\range, but I've got over 20m HP XP because I spent a lot of points on it at PC, not realizing that I would go far over 99 later. Summoning - around 30-35k per hour break even Slayer - lucky to hit 20k per hour break even Use it on slayer.

120 = str bonus with whip, / 4 = what bonus the torso is providing, X 2 = allowing for it only being half of the hit equation (strength level being part of the factor) / 100 for percentage. Happy? Just because you don't understand the reasoning behind numbers doesn't mean they are 'randomly produced'. The formula is wrong, change the 4 str bonus to 40, and it will not make sense. But yeah you proved your point in that looong maths thingy. No, it's right; 120/40 = 3, the 40 bonus is providing 1/3rd the total strength... That's awfully lucky, I'm fast with switching, even with a whip, but I still end up losing some points. Even then, the bandos plate can be earned in almost the same amount of time, and metal dragon tasks require protection prayer - you can't switch 2 prayer at once without an autoer, making proslyte better.

well theres far more chance of getting pjed by some ranger with dbow then with a melee with dclaws the meleer would have to stand next 2 you and that way u can forsee hell pj u or he will have to run to u as comp has explained... the ranger just specs u from just outside ur minimap and then ur most of the time totaly doomed. wont be first time i lose my kill or get owned before i even understand whats happening D bow can't 1 hit 99 hp, and it's not outside the minimap; the farthest d bow range is well within the camera, and you have plenty of time to tele (if it's a lucky almost KO spec) or eat before he can get another shot off.

Rare to find someone that's willing to pay that sort of attention, and even then without a SGS you'll need to drink some prayer pots.

I couldn't agree with you more on this one...it's just not a relevant issue. You can't debate or even quantify "fun." I see this way too much... :wall: 287, by the way. I skimmed over most of the back-and-forth with ydrasil, since I could tell it was just quibbles over the quality of data, but otherwise I read the whole thread...is there another number I should put for that, or just the one? :) It's clear to me that slayer is indeed a pretty useless skill to train in the long-term, since past a certain point there are no gameplay benefits to it. However, it's obviously not useless before then, so if a player with 30 slayer asks for advice on training combat or collecting charms, I would still feel justified in recommending slayer. The main rewards, of course, are broad-tipped bolts, slayer rings, quests, and you could argue for dust devils and the Falador diary too. I also have to agree with Zarfot. Training slayer is undeniably the most efficient way of training slayer, after all, so you can't call it completely useless unless you consider all xp in skills with no practical benefits to gameplay to be useless as well. There is something I don't remember seeing so far. Some people who advocate slayer for training say that you should use slayer to train combat, because eventually you'll want to get 99 slayer and you'll feel bad that your combat skills are maxed already. I disagree; there's nothing stopping you from training melee further when you have 99s already. You'll just get better ranks in the hiscores, which means more prestige. Presumably that's the reason why you're getting the slayer cape anyway, right? Prestige. Hopefully you enjoy the skill as well, but you're not going to derive any less enjoyment because you aren't leveling your combat anymore. Personally, I think I'd enjoy it even more if I could hit 50s and use a steel titan the whole time. And anyway, you'll be training at maximum speed right from the start, instead of only at the end. Sure, it'll take longer than if you got 99 in melee an' stuff from slayer, but if your goal was to get 50m xp in attack, it would actually be faster to get 99 attack first and 99 slayer afterwards, no? If you value slayer xp after 90, why shouldn't you value attack xp after 99? That's a very good point out training combat skills past 99, I hadn't thought of that. There was another set of numbers embedded somewhere in the 10-15 page range, but I certainly don't expect anyone to find it ;)

Barraging lobsters is really a good option; you'd have to use another spell on zombie monkies to keep from messing up the spawns, and you get good charms for lobsters, it'll pave the way for 99 summoning. If it's really the fastest you want, wolpertinger scroll\attack + ice barrage in max mage bonus gear on 9 friends with 99 hp\1 defence\1 magic and full invos of sara brews, with another 9 friends on the side waiting to take their place while they bank at your house. I'd stick with lobsters though.

120 = str bonus with whip, / 4 = what bonus the torso is providing, X 2 = allowing for it only being half of the hit equation (strength level being part of the factor) / 100 for percentage. Happy? Just because you don't understand the reasoning behind numbers doesn't mean they are 'randomly produced'. Ah, yes, because numbers like '16k for 2 prayer potions' are completely made up. And that's where your problem is. The ONLY thing in runescape that your spending is time; unless you want to go into the number of clicks\keystrokes required. I already stated that I include the time to earn money, or the money earned; therefore, all variables are standardized, both methods producing the same amount of charms and cash. Time is the only variable.

No, it doesn't reset at all. When you kill someone, there is a chance that either some, none or all of your drop potential will be used to generate the drop. You only lose points when such a drop occurs, and retain any points that were not used. Wrong. When you kill someone with less then 25k, your drop table won't be touched and you'll get nothing but junk. If it's over 25k, a percentage of your potential will be used to generate your drop, period.

Underground Pass. Took forever, boring, not that great of reward...

It's not that hard to learn BA, considering you are required to listen to a quite lengthy tutorial before being allowed into a real game. Those who complain that complain that it takes a considerable amount of time either: *Are playing with inexperienced people *Skipped the tutorial Some things cannot be taught. All of my friends who have obtained the torso have said it takes 6+ hours; none of them have been less then 2 That's too much of an over confident and unsupported answer to be held of any value. So far I've seen 0 evidence to support your theorys, yet I have mathmatically proven mine, using numbers gained from real world XP. I'm not sure of the exact value, but I'm most definite that it takes more than 1-3 prayer potions each task. Your prayer level is 85, far higher than any average scaper. The prospect of losing 30k (at a bare minimum as you've outlined) a task is too much for some players, especially those who look to slayer as a profit earner - especially at lower levels. 30k a task? Most of my slayer tasks don't take 2 hours, and as I've said, I use an average of 2 prayer pots per hour, or 16k per hour cost. I do have barrow armour, but I assume that you've read my whole argument and you'd know that barrow armour uses are not needed in some places. Yup, those places where offence is superior; the 5% faster XP from +10% strength for 16k per hour means the player would have to be unable to earn more then 320k any other method; with avansies, this is not an issue, and if they were unable to the 8k of +5% strength would make up for it, Guthans is basically a reusable source at a very cheap price, and its uses are endless. Players could buy guthans for a (well it used to be much more) hefty price of 5M, and then they can use it at places such as GWD, DKing and other boss hunting places. It's a good investment to have a Guthan's set, as it will benefit you greatly. What about it? Most people who train don't farm XP at boss hunting places, they go there for profit. Bunyip is not over-rated. It's use during combat is limited, but it's ability to heal you as its base effect is invaluable. It's what I like to call mindless healing, just summon it and it's there in the background, healing you gradually on minor and even some major tasks that you don't take too much damage from. And you won't get faster xp at places with a combat summon at places of single attack zones, as most slayer tasks are. It is overall, but you do realize that most of what you quoted was said by infamous, not me? Cost efficiency =/= XP efficiency. Allow me to use an analogy. Some prefer to burst rock lobsters albeit being highly expensive, but only because their main goal is to gain the highest efficient exp despite the cost. Cost efficient players however on the other hand will take the time to gain their charms slowly at a slower, yet cheaper source such as waterfiends. As I said before, it depends on the type of player and the efficiency suit they follow. Allow me to use another anology. I defince efficiency as "what will require the least amount of time total to complete a task". This includes earning money. Therefore, a player could burst 1k charms and earn the money spent therein in less time then they could kill waterfiends for 1k charms. This is efficiency, not 'cost efficiency' or other such nonsense. Use barrows at places where the defence isn't needed? Why use something where it isn't required, where it is replaced by something that equalizes the damage taken? (Through the use of bunyips, Guthans, prayer flicking) It is then in these scenarios where offence is more needed than defence to finish the task quicker. Yet again, more quotes that I did not say, but I can defend them anyway; proslyte + veracs skirt covers the situations where barrows isn't worth it. It's not prayer switching, it's prayer flicking. Here's a video: It doesn't take alot of concentration, you just let your mouse hover over the desired prayer and flick it on and off depending on the movement of the monster. It also aids you slightly for those who want to fight Jad :mrgreen: With prayer flicking, I can finish a task of 150+ Black Demons without even taking a single dose of prayer potion or leaving the area. The demons come to me, and I just flick in that spot and let my character auto retaliate. Yet again, I never said that. It does require 100% concentration, something few people do while slaying (can't watch tv etc. very easily); I do prayer flick, and I happily consider it an alternative. Well then, that's your choice because not everyone blocks basilisks. They are actually a good source of fast slayer exp and charms. Again, I never said that, but they are much slower XP\charms then places like Armored Zombies or other slayer monsters. You won't get hit more because a fighter torso has higher slash bonus than a rune platebody, especially in a fighting zone where mostly ALL slash weapons are used (Slash Godsword, Abyssal Whip, Dragon Claws). The fact that you lose a fighter torso is simply a glitch. It just needs be adjusted. There's some topics floating around Help & Advice about this specific bug which you can find. Never said that, but if it is a glitch, it is currently not fixed. Math may be a fact, but the validity of the source is questionable. Unless it's been gratified as an ultimate truth and been cross trained with hundreds and even thousands of samples ranging from all combat levels of unbiased sources, then it won't be fully reliable as this game is based on a system of "random". Himm, I don't recall your ''thousands of unbiased samples ' of people obtaining the Fighter Torso in less then 2 hours on average. I, however, am quite proud to say that I use very precise testing methods, using thousands or tens of thousands of samples until I achieve very narrow ranged numbers. See some of my other work on various threads; reading through the 1,200 pages of my arguments over the course of my 'slayer sucks' thread (see signature) for examples.

Assuming you don't want to train range and level it to 85, chinning would be a waste (a waste at 75 range). If you are short term training and going for charms you should stick with dust devils but if you were to train range long term the Aviansie/Chinning method would work better. At 75 range, avansies are still going to be a better option; the profit will enable you to use other methods of obtaining charms much more quickly. Dust Devils have variation and aren't THAT much worse than aviansies. I can hardly think of a much better use for slayer anyway thats not a waste of time to train to a high level. There is no point in training it. That's my point. Thanks for proving it though :x

Assuming you don't want to train range and level it to 85, chinning would be a waste (a waste at 75 range). If you are short term training and going for charms you should stick with dust devils but if you were to train range long term the Aviansie/Chinning method would work better. At 75 range, avansies are still going to be a better option; the profit will enable you to use other methods of obtaining charms much more quickly.

You could send me a PM :-w Too bad I hate quests, stuck at 220 QP and a longing for d claws..

Waterfiends = better charms and XP; bursting lobsters = even more charms and more XP, even with money earning time included. Dust Devils have the option of being ranged (so do waterfiends but its slow). Or you could get 160k range XP\hour for free with chins\avansies, and use melee\mage to obtain charms in half the total time. True but if there are lower leveled rangers (70-75) the dust devils would be a better option. I said the best use of slayer is that (and slayer doesn't have many uses) because to train higher would be a waste of time and lvl 65 isn't much. Explain how it would be a better option? Using avansies from 75-85, then chinning with the money and repeating will get them well over 100k XP\hour, and north of 160k when they hit the upper 90s. Dust devils are... 45-50k per hour?

+12 defense I forgot about glorys +3 defence. Someone slap me :oops:

Well, if you get a ton of fun out of maxing your hardest hit, then you should get it. The strength bonus from the torso is impractical, but if it's fun, then whatever. The game is still about having fun. If you just want to hit as hard as possible, knock yourself out. If you're trying to be time-efficient and go for best strategic planning, maybe there are some better choices available. You'll probably find that you can get a bandos chesplate with GWD faster then you could get a torso from BA... I know you're just joking here but if you're going to pull out every stop to cut down fighter torso to the bottom of the gutter then I'll have to make my argument. To get the stats to come close to being competent enough to get a Bandos Chestplate from GWD and to actually get the drop I could of gotten 10-15 torsos by then. The following argument is from the view point of someone who owns a fighter torso. I'd like to address the fact that most of you have been saying that fighter torsos take around 6 hours to obtain. Not true. If you are any serious BA player or enthusiast, or even someone seeking the two useful items there (Fighter Torso/Penance Gloves) then you won't blindly run into the BA worlds to find a team of blundering idiots. Instead, you'd find competent players like yourself and easily and swiftly obtain the fighter torso even before setting foot into the BA arena. It doesn't take long to obtain as long as you know what you're doing and you have some capable teammates. Lately I've been hearing where every training method and setup is basically outshadowed by this "Proselyte Top/Verac Skirt" combo where you piety/chivalry your whole task. This can only apply to a select few players. The fact of the matter is that most players do not have the funds to constantly guzzle prayer potions each task, and to speed it up isn't worth the money. I myself could afford several Bandos Chestplates yet I stick to my fighter torso. Why? Because the poor defence of the torso is made up by my barrow platelegs, the use of food, guthans and bunyips. Why spend more money on prayer potions and a bandos chestplate when I have everything I need here that works just as effectively and more cost efficient? The fighter torso is considerably better for those who don't want to spend money on an 11m chestplate on minor tasks such as basilisks, black demons, greater demons and lesser demons. I pray flick, so the use of proselyte and prayer is not needed. It gets the tasks done slower, but it doesn't cost me a fortune and I get to use that saved cash for things I love, such as CWing and PKing. I doubt many of you here would piety a basilisk task. I could go on about its versatile uses in PKing, but I'm getting kind of tired and writing from the scratch of your head is not practical. I'm looking forward to some rebuttals, but not where hypothetical math is used - it's far too far fetched and an unreliable way to back up your argument. Not quite sure what the 'hypothetical math' argument is about, but feel free to point out any flaws you see in my equations. As for your proslyte top/verac skirt combo, I typically use 2 prayer potions per hour when using +10% strength. The majority of my friends can afford 16k cost per hour in 'guzzled' prayer potions in exchange for significantly faster kills and XP, but perhaps you and I travel in different circles. I would not know how long torso takes to obtained, having never obtained it myself (besides knowing that it would have to be well under 2 hours to make up for it), other then that 10+ friends of mine have told me that it is 8-10 hours, but your argument about requiring training high enough to GWD counting as time is senseless; we are talking about training itself, and what is most efficient. Lastly, the OP has implied that he is not experienced in BA, and I know very few people who do it for reasons other then the torso, so I believe it is safe to assume that that argument carries no water in this discussion.

Waterfiends = better charms and XP; bursting lobsters = even more charms and more XP, even with money earning time included. Dust Devils have the option of being ranged (so do waterfiends but its slow). Or you could get 160k range XP\hour for free with chins\avansies, and use melee\mage to obtain charms in half the total time.

It's not bursting waterfiends, if that's what your thinking... It's bursting rock lobsters in the waterbirth dungeon for charms. O lol :lol: Thats what i'm currently doing...getting 88 magic + 80 summ Btw you need to enter more on Hemen cc ;) Sorry, I moved on to Soy Suace's clan chat. I never stay in one place too long, it's all about wearing out the welcome :P [hide=](Oh, and I was kicked for telling hemen he wasn't running away from zilly fast enough :-w )[/hide]

+2 prayer, +2 strength, +15 defence? The tip.it equipment calculator can provide a faster answer then I can type this...