Obtaurian

Now we're getting somewhere. The mage is NOT using melee equipment. The reason he isn't is because (1) Melee armor subtracts from magic attack bonuses (2) Wearing melee weapons means that the mage isn't actually a mage, but is a meleer. The warrior IS using ranged armor, because for some absurd reason Jagex decided it likes melee better and that ranged armor wouldn't subtract from melee attack bonuses, after all. A sad attempt at balance, on Jagex's part. Why? Why is armor not considered to be part of the combat triangle?

You don't get it, do you? The mage will also have trained attack, strength, and defense. In the real runescape, you train everything, and there is an infinite number of possibilities and level combinations of levels you can face at lowers levels. A mage at level 126 vs. a meleer at 126 illustrates end game stats and the fact that at higher and higher levels, magic grows more and more obsolete. What we want to actually do is evaluate magic, melee, and ranged without looking at level differences, and the only way to do this compare foes with perfect stats, which eliminates the need for for guesswork. Indeed, the only difference between the meleer and mage in my scenario does not exist in their stats, but in the way they're attacking each other (One is choosing to use mage, and the other is choosing to use melee). But we've already established that in a match between a hybrid mage and hybrid warrior, the mage would win. Let me get this straight: The warrior is using melee and range equipment. The mage is using mage and melee equipment. If that's the case, the mage wins, hands down.

A warrior who straps on ranged armor is a warrior. The type of damage he is dealing is melee damage. A mage using a warrior weapon is not hybriding. He's switching the type of damage he's doing, so he's actually a warrior wearing mage armor. The thing that separates the three classes is the unique way each of them assaults their enemies. Their armor is there simply to aid them in some way. Why exactly does the type of damage indicate the class being used? If someone is using two classes of weaponry and armor, that someone is a hybrid. You're bending rules to fit your argument. By switching to melee, magic once again becomes the very thing it shouldn't become - a support skill. By that logic, all combat styles are "support skills" when used in conjunction with any other style. Magic users should be viable against melee users either by: having meleers' melee stats be impeded by the use of dragonhide or magic users should have defenses/armor that can withstand melee attacks appropriately and not subtract from their magic attack bonus (No, I don't consider Ahrims adequate defense). It has already been shown that a mage wouldn't even have to switch to melee armor. An opponent wouldn't be able to get close enough to use melee weaponry. Furthermore, it should be noted that Ahrim's has higher slash defense than Karil's. I know, this doesn't simply involve allowing mages to wear rune, because then rangers would have a hard time with mages; if a comprehensive rework of the types of damage done by each class is required, then so be it. That's not required. We're fine where we are.

I believe the Crystal Bow is the only bow that can hit a mage while the mage is attempting to farcast. Switching attack styles and armors are one in the same. You're hybriding either way, so they're both relevant points and can be used in this debate. Seercull is extremely inaccurate, and even it were to get a lucky shot in, a good PK'er will have super restores. If a WARRIOR straps on RANGE armor, is he not hybriding? If a MAGE straps on a WARRIOR weapon, is he not hybriding? You can't put limits on the argument to favor your opinion, especially without giving a reason.

On this holiest of days, I am not able to visit my girlfriend who goes to college eight hours north of me. -.- But when she visits, we'll make up for lost time. ;)

Or, they could just change the game to use a long instead of an int for item amounts. Then the cap would be 9,223,372,036,854,775,807 coins rather than 2,147,483,647. And I guarantee you NO ONE will ever get that much money, or that much of any item for that matter. Or they could implement certificates which can be exchanged for 1 million coins and vice versa, at any bank. Your idea is much better. :) I can definitely live with that. All in all, I think Runescape would be a much better place without rares and elitist items.

Exactly how I feel.

nachalo First of all, I agree that rares need to go. I'm not cool with the idea that someone who happened to hoard a bunch of blue party hats a few years ago can suddenly start playing again and have a huge advantage over me for doing absolutely no work. As for the untradable items... I'm not as concerned. However, I do think that they should be available to everyone. They're just for fun! I missed the first few despite having been around since 2001. Personally, I'd like to have a rubber chicken and a yo-yo. Why deny other players the opportunity to have fun? Like the OP said, they shouldn't be penalized for not being old enough to play or for not have discovered the game. It helps to create a very elitist community. EDIT: If this were to happen, I would like to see some sort of update that allows us to see how long we've played, and allows us to let other players know. Perhaps we can log in and choose to display that information on the high scores. As for your idea of converted all tradable rares to gold, I think it's a great idea. A lot of the concerns seem to be that some players will lose money due to the cap, but here's my idea for fixing that: Jagex announces that in two months, all tradable rares will be liquefied. I think two months is a reasonable amount of time. Jagex creates an NPC that will buy all rares for the value that they were the moment Jagex made the announcement. This prevents players from getting less money as rares crash and burn over the next few days/hours/minutes. This allows players to sell their items a few at a time and invest the excess gold in whatever they please until they run out of rares. Two months later, all rares are converted to gold, and players who did not take advantage of the NPC are out of luck, assuming they had an excess of rares. konets

Any Tipiter worth his/her forum account knows that the rants forum is for people to post their qualms and for other people to tear them a new one using logic and/or superior knowledge. Traditionally, and for all intents and purposes, this is a debate forum.

This is a debate forum. Your feelings are irrelevant. Now, please, post a proper response.

I have yet to see any of Compfreak's points disputed, and I've read this entire thread. If you have no experience with magic in PvP, you have no right to argue (or, in the OP's case, NOT argue) with someone who has clearly spent a lot of time testing it. Comp asked a few simple questions, and I'd like to see them answered. EDIT: This debate is not about personal views. Magic is easily on par with range and melee no matter who you are. It takes a little more finesse, but as Comp said, it helps to cull the eh... idiots. ^paraphrased

Thats total bs. everyone will just walk around with mauls and maces. i agree that magic should not give magic defence though. Don't quote someone else's post with my name.

I've been staying up till 6am every night for the past week doing quests, diaries, skilling, etc. 3p1c n0 l1f3 but I don't have school for another few days so I'm gonna live it up. *bro fist* Excellent rant. Here's to all my nolifing brothers and sisters.

I think range is underpowered, but I'm limiting the discussion options to maple longbows and willow comp bows. I think melee is underpowered, but I'm limiting the discussion options to mithril hastaes and black claws. Thats just hipocritical. Sorry. I was using sarcasm to point out the fact that you can't say "magic is underpowered, but I'm going to ignore 1/3 of the skill" and use it as a valid argument. I can say the same thing about melee and range, can I not? ... And? who cares, I'm saying that i mage alot with 70 mage and 45 defence, pures at my level have 90+ mage, and no defense, they still hit fairly often on me, and i can't hit often on them with magic because magic gives mage defence, which is unbelievably stupid. Yea, lets make str give slash defence, and make range give range defence. I don't think that's a bad idea, actually.

I think range is underpowered, but I'm limiting the discussion options to maple longbows and willow comp bows. I think melee is underpowered, but I'm limiting the discussion options to mithril hastaes and black claws.

I'm digging the new rewards and stats. The headband really needed a facelift. They made it much, much better. :thumbup:

I get one maul per task on average. Sometimes more. CT Gargs are identical to Slayer Tower Gargs.

So learn to use it properly. If you can do that, you can pretty much take anyone down. I see people using it in PVP worlds all the time. Vengeance seems to be the most common. Don't complain just because you don't know how to use magic in combat.

I enjoyed the quests that were part of a storyline or had a lot of combat. While Guthix Sleeps was especially cool. :thumbup: Thanks for the rates.

I'm lol'ing at all of the people who are under the false impression that magic is underpowered. Keep it up. I appreciate the laugh. :thumbup: Compfreak has pretty much said everything that needs to be said. I highly suggest that everyone claiming magic to be underpowered read the Ancient Magicks strategy guide in the AOW.

I lol'd hard. This is awesome.

Epic. 10/10. :thumbup:

I got all of these within two weeks of each other, so I'm just editing them into this topic as I go. I killed Jad about five minutes ago. Rate/mate/ovulate/disintegrate/postulate/alleviate.

I'm under the impression that a beast of burden is much more helpful while soloing Armadyl than a unicorn is. With your stats, you should definitely try soloing. If you've never been, go with a team first.

You're not talking about Dust Devils are you? Dust Devils are pretty weak to slash attacks.