sees_all1

patience quel - for the main topic, it doesn't have F2P anywhere in the title. For the spellbook only, it does -> I've gotten two idiot negative responses (how about PAY) and two positive responses (one from a TIF lurker, and the other, idk). Remember, this spellbook has 29 new f2p spells, and 28 new members only spells, so it isn't technically a "F2P only" update. Plus, its easy to tell if someone's read the spells or not, usually they'll point out one or two that they really like.

Ahh, the age old "if you don't like then leave" given to those who desire change. Now THIS is the way to get stuff done. "John Hancock: Umm, I don't like that the British rule over us and tax us without our consent. Intelligent thinker who is well informed: Well, if you don't like it, then leave, and take all of your stupid Patriots with you." "Frederick Douglass: Umm, I don't like that blacks are slaves. Intelligent thinker who is well informed: Well, if you don't like it, then leave, and take all of your stupid [redacted] with you." "Elizabeth Cady Stanton: Umm, I don't like that women can't vote. Intelligent thinker who is well informed: Well, if you don't like it, then leave, and take all of your stupid women with you." "MLK: Umm, I don't like that blacks are segregated. Intelligent thinker who is well informed: Well, if you don't like it, then leave, and take all of your stupid blacks with you." I bow down to your reasoning Intelligent thinker who is well informed Except in this circumstance, you're a consumer. There are literally thousands of video games out there, and picking one you like better than sticking with one you don't is completely plausible, and in fact encouraged. No one is forcing you to play runescape. The difference here between "if you don't like it, do something else" and each and every one of your analogies is there wasn't an alternative. I.E. - either gripe about it or start a revolution. Here, you can play a different game, and you can't start a revolution especially if there are a thousand others who will take your spot in a week.

Alright, I fixed it. Please - If you supported this spellbook, post your support on the RSOF. I need that thread to be highly visible to a Jmod.

If you don't think its fun (and more of a chore), then maybe runescape isn't for you. There are plenty of games out there to chose from, many of which allow you to cheat your way through it.

So, how exactly to the Lunar, and Ancient Spellbooks pertain to the limited subset of F2P spells in the normal spellbook? I think you'll find the accuracy of a wave spell is different than the accuracy of a blast spell, is different than the accuracy of a rush or blitz or whatever spell. No matter how you solve the level requirements for Magic, there is still the problem with the combat triangle in general: Mage and Range max out much earlier than Melee, therefore giving an inherent disadvantage to Melee. One could argue that the cost of Mage and Range overcomes this, but you've argued time and time again that cost isn't a factor for "most maxed out players" - which still leaves us, combat triangle is off balanced anyway you look at it. The only way to solve these problems: 1. Level requirements versus max hits and accuracy for each should be relatively the same. 2. Cost should be the same. 3. On end of the triangle should beat another, while losing to the other side, CONSISTENTLY.

long read, but worth it. This probably should have been submitted as a Tip-It-Times article. I'm not sure if this was meant to spark a debate, or a general discussion over the points listed. Lets see, I'd like to go over this on a point by point basis, but that would take almost as long as it seems like it took you to write this. So, rather than do that, I'll pick a generic idea out of each section and comment on it, and you can tell me if I understood what you were trying to convey, and if my opinion on it makes sense. Here I go. On Precedents: I believe the punishment of breaking a rule should fit the severity of the abuse. IE - anyone who abused the µ bug merits at the very least a 3 day mute. Anyone who used the µ bug in a PVP or PVM situation to the detriment of other players deserves, at the very least, a 10 day ban. Players who discovered the bug, repeated it several times, promptly reported it, then kept their mouth shut should not be banned - as this is the prescribed method for reporting bugs. Players that spread the knowledge of the bug to others should be banned, because it allowed others to abuse the bug. Another situation - the Bounty Hunter skull bug. Players that abused this bug (i.e. did it, without reporting it, and/or spread the knowledge to others) should receive at most 1-2 blackmarks (a slap on the wrist), because this didn't affect anyone else, i.e. the abuse was not severe. In this manner, Jagex can be fair towards all players in any given situation, while still maintaining the integrity of the game, and the rules. On skills: One thing that I think which summed everything up was the statement: "We should be able to obtain the majority of our experience from things we enjoy." I believe Jagex is heading in this direction, believe it or not. I'll give two good examples: I enjoy using mage in combat, but magic is expensive, and pretty much worthless in F2P. I can play FoG, and still retain that enjoyment at literally no cost to me. Another example: I hate runecrafting. I detest it. It is one of the worst skills in the game, especially for F2P. In my humble opinion, getting 70 runecrafting is harder than getting 99 cooking. And then GOP came out. I absolutely love GOP. I played GOP so much that my Runecrafting level went from 50 to 70 since its been released. I hardly notice the experience in Runecrafting I get when I play GOP. As far as combat goes - the only solution to making combat experience easier is to make it cheaper overall. This would alleviate the problem of having to grind skills to pay for PKing, or to play safe combat minigames instead of risking armour. Clan wars is a good example of how this gets done. Time: Most of this I can't comment on, as I'm strictly F2P. however the "Also, stop showing levels after everybody's name. The only places this would be needed are PvP worlds." is an interesting point of view, and I'm not sure if I would agree or disagree. There are many level 3s that have a higher total level than level 60's and 70's - because these level 3s are skillers. For this reason, I do not automatically discredit someone on their combat level. I feel that no matter what, immaturity will always happen, and removing the combat level after the name is no way to solve the problem of immaturity. Money: Expensive items give satisfaction to people that grind skills to get money. Removing the necessity of money, and removing the necessity of skills would make Runescape just one giant minigame, instead of the complex beast it is today. It would cheapen the value and time of all the effort put into by current and past players, and would make the game boring. Interpersonal Relations: "This should ideally result in the following: more positive relations in Runescape, with less of the common make yourself feel good by putting others down that permeates Runescape."" All I could think of... "I'd like to teach the world to sing..." Trust me, this will never happen, because you can't teach people to be mature.

Not a lot, at the very most it'd be £1000 per month. So if that's the extreme estimate, £1000 a month, it's £12000 per year per server. I counted 76 F2P English servers - I'll even over-estimate it and call it 85 total F2P servers. 12k*85 = the extreme value would be £1,020,000 per year. £2.2 mil - £1.0 = £1.2 mil a year just from F2P. Anyone want to take a guess how many staffers they have dedicated to F2P, and how much they're paid? Still looking for the definitive, "running this server costs this much for jagex" from an official source.

Alright... how much does it cost to run a single f2p server?

Right, but I'm looking for something along the lines of: It costs Jagex 2,000£ / month for each F2P server. Jagex makes about 1900£ / month from F2P advertising, so Jagex's net loss per month for a F2P server is 100£ You get the idea. 7% doesn't tell me anything about the cost of a single server, nor does it tell me explicitly the amount of revenue Jagex gets from F2P advertising.

A few simple questions, really - How much does it (on average) cost Jagex to operate a single F2P server for a month? (few variables tossed in there - rent for server, cost of bandwidth, number of people logged in, number of dedicated salaried employees). How much money does Jagex make from a single F2Per viewing an advertisement - which leads into- On average, how much does Jagex make per month in advertising revenue from F2Pers? This leads to the final question - what is the net profit / loss for Jagex simply having a F2P segment? I know there have been a few graphics thrown around (i.e. a line graph and a couple pie chart), but this really doesn't tell me the answer to these questions. Anyone care to fill me in?

Replace those with an even harder F2P runecrafting, prayer, and mining. (no ZMI altar, best bones we can bury is big bones without altar bonuses, and limited powermining abilities, if any - also best money making ability in F2P is mining runite... aside from that if you can do 100k/hr or better you're doing amazingly well.)

what I posted in the OP was a bug I discovered. I took the correct steps - tried once more to replicate it, reported it immediately afterward, and then went about my business. Some of the more recent bugs, with MANY abusers, or historically "Big" events are blown out of proportion because of the number of abusers, and the tough decision jagex was forced to make. I suppose what I'm looking for are potentially MAJOR bugs that people here have found, or heard about, that were handled correctly by the person that found it, so there were very few, if any abusers. These are the bugs you don't hear about - and I'd like to show people that, no, not everyone is doing it - and if you jump in, then you're a cheater and deserve to get banned.

This thread has stayed almost entirely on topic #-o The threads that wander off topic are the stuipd, poorly written ones with no point or logic behind them that are disproved and thrown out in the first page. Mods need to lock them, after that they just end up becoming discussion threads. My "slayer sucks" has stayed remarkably on topic for over 66 pages \ This is why people hate you. "No logic" and "no point" is your opinion. I could say the exact same thing; that your agument has "no logic" and no "point" and it was disproved in the first page. (Obviously you are wrong since this argument has gone longer than 1 page) In fact, you are a hypocrite as well since almost everytime a topic has gone off topic in TIF is because you treat people has if they are an inferior species whos purpose in life is to worship you. You're such an arrogant jerk its not funny anymore. Trust me on this one - Compfreak and I disagree on many things. I don't hate Compfreak, and I'm fairly certain he doesn't hate me. Usually my goal when "arguing" with Compfreak is to get him to understand my point of view, not to change his point of view. Usually once this happens, its pointless to debate any more because trying to change the opinion of a complete stranger with a block of text on teh internetz is a waste of time. Now - try to understand Compfreak's point of view before laying out your own, and you should definitely stop expecting Compfreak to automagically change his point of view just because you took the time to post it. Also, expecting someone to agree with you after throwing a cheap shot directly at them is a serious error in judgment - try to keep personal attacks to zero.

stop right there, I dont know many at all besides the most recent PVP glitch/bug... info on some? Bugs that have been blown out of proportion - in my mind: (I guess I'll go in reverse order... so most recent first) -PVP drop potential duping with familiars in F2P -The µ bug -The penguin spotting bug -The Fally massacre -Item Duping in RSC any I'm missing?

so the fix is as simple as - "This spell cannot be used with Spellbook Swap" and "The effects of Hurricane wear off as you use the Temple" ?

Sorry for the double post. This was on the RSOF, and I'd thought I'd share it here. Trust me on this one - I did not see it this way until now, and as much as you've all responded with "it'll mess up the economy," I still disagree with you. BUT - the idea that having a super alch would take too much away from the normal spellbook - not what this spellbook intended to do, so I'm removing it. All of you who only had a beef with super alchemy will be added to the supporters list. GG guys, I'll concede this one ;)

No, that's actually exactly what I'm trying to do. Combat triangle means that mage is better than melee is better than range is better than mage - so I want mage to own melee while still getting owned by range. Not familiar with spellbook swap, but isn't it only limited to one spell, and its in the lunar spellbook? That would be tons of clicking and tons of effort just to cast a couple ancients. Yes I realize that. No, it won't affect the economy too much. I say this confidently: For about two weeks after this spellbook is introduced, there will be shifting in the markets. What are the items that will be affected? Things like the Dragon Halberd - that have no use in the game, and who's current price is dictated either by a price floor, or its high alch value. These items, that have a large difference between the high and low alch value, will increase in price to reflect the new super alchemy level. Any other item whose high and low alch value (-25%) difference isn't big enough to cover the cost of 3 nature runes (~700 gp) will not be affected. Any item that isn't at the price minimum won't be affected, because it'll still be higher than the new value this puts it at. The 750 total level requirement is to stop PKing F2P pures from using this spellbook. 750 total levels for a member, IMHO isn't too much.

70 runecrafting... and 1000 total F2P - BOOO YAAAA!!!!

in addition, with mithril you'll tend to break even, or a few K off if you do a thousand, but it IS slower.

you can familiarize yourself with a spreadsheet - either Excel or some other. Find the High Alch value of all the rune, adamant, and green d'hide things you can imagine. Subtract out the cost of a nature rune, and there's the price you can buy up to and still break even. Check the GE for each of these items, and if you can buy it at that price or slightly below, go for it. For better XP rates -- Put in an overnight offer for up to 300-400 of an item if you find it sells quickly, and then next thing in the morning you can put up another offer for another item, and enjoy alching all the overnight items. Before PVP was re-introduced I did rune scimitars... :wall: :wall: should've saved those.

add this in, and you can add me to your supporters list.

I remember when I saw that, it was a semi-"big deal" - lots of people abused this one, but in the end, no one was hurt by it.

Right, I understand that. I'm not sure what Compfreak was referencing in his post, and if its a different bug altogether, or just this current one (I'm looking for bugs that went undetected because people weren't idiots about it and did the correct procedure - find a bug, test it to see if it can be repeated, submit a bug report, continue playing without using the bug, all the while keeping their mouths shut).

Sorry for being an ignorant F2Per, but where was the benefit in that (I seriously don't know because I'm not familiar with summoning at all) Any idea if this is fixed now? If a mod sees fit to move it, so be it. I thought that because it was previous bugs that are no longer affecting the game, and that there is more discussion value here than an obscure forum like that. I agree this one could have been huge... glad no one blabbed about it. uh, what?

Alright - so we all know the famous glitches, along with the new one still fresh in our brains. Most people will agree that cheaters should be perma-banned, but I'd like to examine past bugs that didn't fly completely out of proportion. I'll share my bug, and if you have one you can share yours. I'm guessing that there are probably more major bugs than people realize... and all it takes is for one idiot to show a couple friends to start a frenzy. The bounty hunter bug: (a little context first) When bounty hunter first came out, it was a completely different atmosphere. Virtually ANYONE could attack ANYONE, and especially in F2P, if your skull was gray or better, you'd have 10-15 one-itemers on you instantly. If someone witnessed your kill, and you were peened, you were as good as dead. If someone decided to attack you, one person would end up dying or leaving, so if you were peened and someone attacked you, you were as good as dead. The bug: If you were penalized, you could take whatever stuff you wanted, go to the center, wait for 15 seconds hoping that no one attacked you, then log out, and log into a non-bh world. You'd then automatically appear outside of the volcano, with the loot. Then you could bank all of your stuff, hop worlds, and appear in the volcano. How they fixed the bug: You were no longer allowed to log out of Bounty Hunter while peened. Please - only post REAL bugs with potential for abuse, that are now FIXED. I'd like to see that the only reason people abuse bugs is because they doubt there will be consequences, and that there have been many more bugs in the past that weren't popular.