sees_all1

I've always wanted to write my own bot - seemed like a fun thing to do. I've got code that moves my mouse around, and doesn't do anything useful, too much work to get it to be "human". The one question I've always had is - can Jagex detect which processes are going around in the background, or what other stuff is chugging on the JVM? Anyhow, if you want to program a macro in java, you'll want to use the Robot class. Its made for automated testing... If Jagex is able to detect what other classes are instantiated, and in use by the JVM, then it'll be easy to detect java-based macroers. One thing I will say is that when I move my mouse, I usually go about 2/3 of the way quickly, and then the last bit slowly, but more accurately. I'll bet that most macroers don't do that, or make as many mistakes or get as distracted as we do. I know that Jagex will know if they've got window focus or not, and why would a macroer look at forums, or browse youtube? Also, would a macroer log in and out for 30 minutes at a time, or idle for a few minutes here and there? And of course, macroers wouldn't talk to anyone, or interact in meaningful ways. I'm guessing that before Jagex decides to ban someone, they go check in on them while macroing. That way, if they don't go batsh*t with OMFG A JMOD, and don't respond, then voila, macroers. But most of this is speculation. :lol: :lol: GF macroers.

Alright, so I was WCing in a PVP world; occasionally someone would tango with me, I'll do damage, they'll do damage, no one dies, and after some name calling, I'd get back to WCing. Just got a message - "You have just defeated XXXXXX" - great. I just lost drop potential, and I have no clue where this idiot died. Somehow I don't think its fair that I just missed out on a drop, and the person that killed him missed out on a drop, AND I lost drop potential. Talk about a waste. I think the solution could be simple: if you kill someone who isn't close by, or you didn't get in the last hit, death should come to you and offer to take you to the grave site. I think that would be pretty fair.

Ever use the GE? usually after leaving the GE I'll have made 2-3 friends from bad clicks with the buy/sell interface.

Well put. Isn't much I can say that hasn't already been said. There are other things that are very wrong with this book, but the idea sounds pretty nice. It's a lot like what I was thinking of once, but way more overpowered #-o . I addressed and modified the book for each of those concerns... and I'm sure Joe will agree its better now. What else is "very wrong" with the book - please tell me, so I can explain it better, or I can modify these serious errors. I lost.

Crafting, Firemaking, and smithing are buyable skills. This is because I can purchase 260,000 uncut sapphires, sit in the G.E., and craft each and every one of them, getting experience at astronomical rates. I lose money, but its much faster than killing cows, tanning the leather, and then sewing it (do it yourself). With Firemaking, I can buy a ton of yew logs, burn them in the GE, etc. Same with smithing, I can buy bars, and get extremely fast experience. With melee, GP != XP. That is to say, I can't throw down 50 million to translate to 99, unless I'm paying people to stay out of my training area. There aren't very many methods with melee that can get you crazy fast experience where you make a huge loss.

Melee should be obliterated by mage, and rangers still have an advantage. Magic can attack farther than most weapons right now. Only Crystal bow and a few other weapons I can't remember can reach a farcasting mage. Remember this is for F2P, so all F2P Rangers get is a MAPLE Shortbow/Longbow, and I'm not even sure if the Longbow can even reach a farcasting mage. Something that I didn't do was post the splashing rate, the base experience gained, the delays, etc. I wouldn't argue how over/under powered this is until all of that is posted, and I sure as heck am not going to put that in this - I feel that is something Jagex alone should decide. That said, all the armour introduced has no range defense, and I'd expect that a ranger who isn't hybriding with rune would have a decent magic defense, and should have the mage splash often. Even if the mage is successful with some of the spells, the ranger would still have the advantage of being able to hit at a distance - and with these spells, it isn't as easy to farcast as it is with ancients.

The economy, or a couple items? I'd imagine that this would remove a SIGNIFICANT portion of rares from the game, from all the mass bannings that would ensue.

Did you have to quote every single spell like that? Especially when some of your comments are "See this spell" - couldn't you realize that there's "families" of spells? Anywho, I don't believe you understand the intent behind some of the spells. I wouldn't imagine that you've read all 12 pages of this, although the fact that you've read every single spell means that you've probably read more than most people who've posted here. So, on to some of the comments that I think you're misinformed. @Ripple spells - "Why make a useless spell?" These aren't useless, they're meant as a way to give good, fast experience, along with a way to stack with pulse spells to provide a little bit of KO ability for F2P. @Pulse spells - "So a Wind wave with more rune uses...? Why make deaths even more expensive and bloods less? This spellbook is for P2P too you know." I believe that giving wave spells to F2P would almost fix it, but the problem is that you'd have to make blood runes F2P also. The combat aspects are primarily F2P only, because P2P already has a combat only spellbook. However, there are certain spells in here that make this spellbook a viable option for P2P combat, however I believe that Ancients will still be cheaper, and have better built in effects. @Deposit spells - "I can imagine people just bringing stacks of Laws and an Air staff to bank everything at Graardor." This is only for certain items, "coins, bones, food or potions" or "bones, coins, runes, food or potions" - not other drops like armour and weapons, charms, weeds, gems, etc. @Push type spells - "No time limit? What's going to prevent you from just pushing him back over and over again? What's the point if you do that? You will get Pjed if you are in Pking situations" You can push people as many times as you want, but it won't do you any good. Push however specifically STOPS people from PJing - if you're farcasting, and someone is coming towards you to pj, cast push and you buy yourself another cast, a little more time. @Disport type spells - "Same as above...no time limit?" Exactly - you can keep casting this as much as you want, but it's not going to help you PK anyone. This also helps stop PJing. @Teleport spells - "All the teleports in this book devalues a lot of jewelery teleports, and fairy rings..." I'm not familiar with any of that. All the P2P spots were suggested by other people. If you would match up the exact item with the teleport that you think would replace it, tell me and I'll look into it further. @Apparate - "It'd be OP in quests...make it so you cannot teleport to quest areas." See the little bit about "to chose an unlocked place on the map to teleport to" - its already done. @Sheath/hp boosters - "Hello, 'Cast Sheath other -> Bandos tank : Infinite times'" , "Oh imagine the infinite stay at Graardor. " If I'm not mistaken, one of the godswords heals hp too, so having this is no big deal. The "can not stack" part is what keeps people from using this on each other every 2 minutes - figure that instead of "healing" someone with normal hp, that hp is blue, or purple, or something, and is at the very left of the bar (used last). Then, while there still is that bit left, you can't cast it again, until it turns green. @Beckon - "SAY HI TO AFK TRAINING." The difference here is that I can AFK for 10 minutes at a time already, then when the times up, leave and come back, versus just casting a spell. There's a difference between AFK, which is illegal, and multitasking, which is perfectly legit, this helps the multi taskers. See the other discussions on the other spells, if you feel like I've missed anything, post.

Thanks for pointing him to my suggestion... I agree that F2P magic needs an overhaul - heck you should use one of my signatures. Check out my suggestion, see the awesomeness, add your support. Hopefully Jagex will see it, I've been trying to contact several pmods, to try and get them to read it.

Well, TBH - I'm trying to think of ways that the economy would truly be dead... and not someone whining about how they can't buy their whips, or they can't buy sharks, or they can't buy strength potions, and so therefore the economy is "dead". Right now, wait and see a week, but my prediction is that lobs will hit their price ceiling of 368 again, and for a little while after that, it'll be impossible to buy lobsters (I've personally purchased 12k uncooked lobsters today... yay free cooking xp). Same with rune scimitars, the limit is 35k each - they'll hit it, and it'll be hard to purchase in the GE. My point is that the economy isn't dead right now, just a couple markets are.

That's actually one of the things you get in the rewards, a potion that will increase your magic level by +4... if you lose this, you can always buy another potion. Besides, doing this quest at magic level 50 would be pretty pointless anyway, only 2 spells are available to you ;) thanks for the support anyway.

Have you ever sold something for a price other than the mid, in the GE? Congratulations, you've just played a role in manipulating the price of an item. These merchanting clans are a failure, just a fad. Most people in them do not walk away with a profit, and they don't earn money "instantly", in the sense that chopping down a yew tree gets you about 400 gp "instantly". Most of the stuff they do anyway is a gamble. The fact that you're not buying the items you want is a failure of the GE to change prices adequately, the market isn't able to do its job.

I'd like to point out that what's good for the goose, is not in fact, good for the gander (this assumption is called fallacy of composition) (taken from the book Microeconomics for Economics 251, published by Pearson) "The fallacy of composition is the (false) statement that what is true of the parts is true of the whole or that what is true of the whole is true of the parts. There are many everyday examples of this fallacy. Standing at a ball game to get a better view works for one person but not for all--what is true for a part of a crowd is not true for the whole crowd." While merchanting clans may be popular right now, there are many uninformed individuals that are going in, trusting the clan leaders, and getting screwed by playing by the rules. All of these individuals will have backlash; they will refuse to go into these clans again, and/or warn others. Not everyone in runescape is able to or will participate in merchanting, and certainly not everyone can profit from it. There are far too many items that are substitutes for merchanted goods, or simply too much volume of certain items to allow merchanting clans to put a big dent in their prices. I sincerely doubt merchanting clans are able to change the price of high volume items - air runes, pure essense, nature runes - especially because most of these items are created from scratch. These items are the backbone of the Runescape economy. I think you and I agree on most of this. I suppose what I'm saying is that the players will not, in the end, collapse the economy, it'll be some (really really big) action of Jagex.

My 70 F2P RCing makes me special and not like joe.

@Makoto - thanks for the remarks, and for taking the time to at least read it. There can, and have come points in time where goods aren't traded, for instance the lobster example. Although this (for the most part) only happens with major updates, and only affects goods of a certain type (pking gear, for example) for a certain time frame, these markets can, and do freeze. As wholly inconceivable that this will not happen to a majority of goods, I submit that its still possible, and if it did happen, the economy (trade) would grind to a halt.

Shield your eyes!!! this one is huge! What would it take to kill the RS Economy? After viewing numerous posts and threads declaring the RS Economy to be dead, and many responses of Its not dead, its better than ever!, Ive decided to examine what makes the RS economy tick, and what would make it bad enough that there would no longer be an economy. So, lets take a look at what economy means. The definition I will go by is: the system of production and distribution and consumption What are the characteristics of a dead economy? First and foremost there is no trade. There is no exchange of goods, no wealth passed between characters. Secondly there is no consumption. No one is using the goods produced, and they just sit. Lastly there is no production. No one is producing anything, nothing is generated. I think the first one is the one that is most likely to happen, because it seems like most causes from the second and third would stem from the first. Im just going to focus this on trade. How would there come to be no trade? The first, and obvious answer is if RuneScape shuts down entirely Jagex ceases to exist, something along those lines. Because Jagexs financial status seems to be intact and strong, and this would be some external thing, Im not going to discuss this one further. So, on to another idea. There can come a point when everything is viewed as junk. Where items have no more worth, and the current prices do not reflect the current value. This already seems to be the case with many items products of skills that are power-trained. Take smithing for example it is impossible to sell mithril daggers, or steel longswords. The current items price has hit a floor, set by Jagex. Experience is valued more than these items, which leaves frozen markets. It is easy to see this occurring with many items, and the trend will only become worse as more and more people look to max out skills. There is also the opposite price ceilings. It takes a big event to make a relatively common item hit its ceiling, but when it happens, trade stops entirely. Cooked lobsters have a price ceiling of 368 they hit it for several weeks after the PVP updates. It was impossible to buy 100 lobs in the GE for a while, and after all the hype of PVP worlds died down, it became nearly impossible to sell 100 lobs in the GE. What is the markets solution to price limits? Junk trading. Certain items holiday items, or rare items, have a whole and complete market unto themselves, and junk trading is the solution to make their economies to flow smoother. However, this only benefits wealthy individuals, instead of those with less than 10M total assets. What would happen if all price floors were removed, and the markets were allowed to dictate the prices? Its conceivable that certain items, such as bronze-steel items, or willows, would fall to 1-3 gp each, ruining the game for the low leveled players. However, it only takes a few days to a couple weeks of play to get up to where a player is using mithril or better, and this problem wouldnt happen anymore. The price of some steel, and mithril items will find equilibrium at their respective high alchemy price, minus the cost of a nature rune. This brings up another interesting idea nature runes are more important than GP in the markets. Lets say that a new skill is introduced sailing. Or engineering. Or Aeronautics. It doesnt really matter. But, lets say that nature runes were an integral part of that skill. The skill is introduced, a new demand is created, and the price of nature runes soar. Items that are normally dead, but fall within a range that its worthwhile to high alchemy, would cease trading (rune medium helms, green dhide bodies, etc.) If nature runes were deemed more valuable for this skill than for high alchemies, many different items and skills would become junk. The last thing that I believe would destroy the economy is if the mechanics of the GE stopped working, which consists of a few things. One would be the GE stops all together, and you cannot use it anymore. This would bring back classical trading, standing in world 1 or 2 for hours trying to get a couple death runes. More scamming would likely occur, prices wouldnt shift, etc. Another is if Jagex doesnt update the prices of items. This would make it that its impossible to trade with gp, trading would cease and the economy would be dead Lastly, if a majority of items hit a price ceiling or floor in the GE. This is a little different than Jagex not updating the prices, however it would result in the same effects. Ive heard two other things, and Id like to examine them here. 1. A super alchemy spell would destroy the economy. 2. Merchanting clans ruin the economy. So, the first one. No, this isnt true. If a spell gave you more gp per item than the high alchemy spell, new prices would be set for items, and the high alchemy spell may become worthless. However, the economy wouldnt be destroyed in the sense that trade ceases to exist. Rather, the prices would shift for a couple weeks until balance is restored. The only way this could kill the market for certain items is if price ceilings existed, and this spell sans cost of runes gave more gp than the ceiling is at. The second one Merchanting clans do not ruin the economy, as a whole. A merchanting clan works by creating an artificial demand for an item, raising the price, then selling the items back at the inflated price. This works only in theory rather what probably happens is the leaders of the merchanting clan stock up on a specific item, tell the rest of the clan what that item is, slowly sell back that item at the inflated price, make a tidy profit, and finally watch as their members get screwed and the price of the item plummets as the artificial demand becomes an artificial supply. Even in theory, merchanting clans dont work. If everyone waits until the peak price, what happens is just a redistribution of wealth, or rather a gamble. The lucky ones will be able to sell at the increased price, the unlucky wont, and will have to sell at the floor, or wait until the item rebounds and either net a loss or no profit. This is sort of off topic, however Id like to point out that while merchanting clans can mess up individual markets, they are not numerous enough, or powerful enough to mess up every item. A smart scaper will check the different clans before making a significant purchase, and will be able to read pricing histories of specific items to know what each items price is. A smart scaper will also know how much theyre willing to lose on a specific item. If there were no changes to the game, and an equilibrium were to occur, there wouldnt be merchanting. However, merchanting is an indicator that there is still an economy, that trade exists. Yikes! That was long. Conclusion: I hope you enjoyed the read I enjoyed writing it. Hopefully everything was as clear as I meant it to be. If you have any ideas as to what else would kill the economy, please post them. If you respectfully disagree with any of the things Ive said here, please post them. I look forward to reading and discussing comments. tl;dr: The RS Economy dies if a few things occur: -RS ceases to exist -Most items become junk and price limits (floors, ceilings) remain -Nature runes become too expensive -The GE stops working (no volume, or prices dont change) Things that wouldnt kill the Economy: -New super alch spell -Merchanting clans.

I just read/skimmed through most of the posts in this thread, and its unbelievable how biased each and every one of you are. Even though I've never had an experience with the Ring of Wealth, I'd like to point out several things: 1. None of you know everything that is in the rare table. Jagex may have deemed something you perceive to be common to be rare, and without knowing everything in the rare table it is impossible to determine a statistic for the Ring of Wealth. 2. With each of your posts about your experiences, none of you have experienced enough rare drops to even become statistically significant to even about 20-40% - one trip means absolutely nothing in statistics, you need to repeat the trials over and over again... tens, hundreds, thousands of times. 3. The only knowledge you have of the game engine is what Jagex lets you know. Exactly what numbers go into the drop table, or how it goes through its numbers is unknown to you. While Jagex's answer does provide some clues, it isn't the code, and its only the code that can give you a definitive answer (or the Jagex Staffer who programmed it... ).

i've gotten a lvl 3 off tutorial island to 1 million in 48 hours... no skills involved. Except I used the g.e. :roll:

OMFG CONTEMPORARY SPELLBOOK FTW ITS COMING HOLY COW OMG!!!!one!!!!eleven!!!! Well, that settles it then. Just don't kill my optimism for this one, pretty please. :pray:

Check out the main page... I added 3 new spells from suggestions made on the RSOF. I believe I've credited everyone who helped out... post if you believe I didn't give you due credit. I've also completely removed super alch, so its gone, no worries.

This right here could be all that I need.... I'd also like to point out that any new content for F2P is also going to be P2P, such as a holiday event. It also seems that most servers have another paired server with them - take a look at the locations, and you'll see that "United States 1" makes up about 20 or so servers... same with "UK 1" - about 16 servers. In fact, its rare to see less than 2 servers not at the same location. Figure within any given area a player might be in, there are less than 50 NPC's. For an entire P2P world... any rough estimate of how many NPC's there are? My guess is between 5-10k. As far as generating random numbers specifically for players, in any given moment a RuneScape server might be sending 5 random numbers to the player. So in any given game loop a Runescape server needs to generate up to 10k random numbers, and update the locations of up to 12000 things. In some thread, Andrew himself said each game loop takes about 60 milliseconds (give or take). That's plenty of time to do all those things, as far as computing goes (and that's the absolute worst case scenario). Also, figure the only thing Jagex is sending to any given player at any given time is the position of 200 other players, and the positions of up to 50 npcs.

Was the "Interview with Jagex!" the new thing that was discussed on the forums earlier, or is it just gravy to something else?

Lol, watch out. One day, I'll be on that list. I've already got 70 RC which is better than some people on there :P . 1017 total here and counting....

I suppose we're free to post on the RSOF? add me to the list. (please remove all that color... its an eyesore -.- )

Sounds like that could've been blown out of proportion, but I don't know everything surrounding that.