quelmotz

So one occurence is enough proof to make a statement? Apparently it is so. :?

Honestly, just don't ask touchy questions that could be considered offensive (in idiotic ways, but still offensive) by religious people. Religion and stuff are touchy matters, and we should just respect them and leave them alone.

:thumbup: +1 Honestly, his arguments are incoherent, not well-thought out, absurdly stupid and ridiculous. Let's set this straight. From my understanding, MOST RWT'ers were f2p, hence the abundance of lvl 3s cutting yews between Lumbridge and Falador and also the lvl 3s fishing lobsters on karamja. The only P2P macros were the green drag/flax picking ones. So, not every RWT used STOLEN credit cards to pay for membership. MOST of them were FREE goldfarmers in poor countries like China. The RWT "companies" pay negligible amounts of money to mass of people for them to create accounts and collect resources, but some also use bots who do the work for them, then they collect all the money made and sell it to other players. NO STOLEN CREDIT CARDS WERE USED. As for P2P goldfarmers, some credit cards might be stolen, but they make more gp/hour so i guess they'd make more money irl even if they used legit credit cards. BOLDED PART: Honestly, the macro problem has been a long time going in RuneScape, and I would've thought Jagex decided to deal with it long before Dec 2007, so why couldn't they come up with a better change? They are a LARGE company, this isn't RSC we're talking about, this is a true MMORPG and I truly believe Jagex should've put more thought into such a drastic change. Yes, I know the players caused the problem, but what does that have to do with anything? Does that mean Jagex should be so careless as to harming such a large amount of innocent players? I don't think so. ITALICISED: I don't care if people laugh at me. This is a forum, and I don't even know you. So do I give a crap about what you or other people might be laughing at me behind you computer screen? No. Hell, I don't even care if people irl laugh at me, they don't even know me, neither do you. Also, why are you accusing me of low IQ? That's quite off topic. UNDERLINED: Calling my post incoherent, not well thought out, absurdly stupid and rediculous, while your own post has no points as far as I can see. All you say is which has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm saying. All you do is call me stupid :lol: :roll: PS: I just "laughed" at you, I hope that doesn't make you feel bad or anything :cry: First: Go and read this freaking article before spouting nonsense. http://www.runescape.com/kbase/view.ws?guid=diary06 Paragraphs 5 & 6 are just about all you need to read. Honestly, I can't believe your ignorance. Apparently MOST of the RWT bots are f2p, but not all. You admitted it yourself. And anyway, the percentage/amount of p2p RWT bots doesn't matter, as long as there ARE p2p bots. Why? Banks will still sue Jagex. They would still ban their customers from using their credit cards to pay Jagex. Which would affect business. And also, it affects gameplay. Would you like to be woodcutting at a place swarming full of bots? No. And apparently "no stolen credit cards were used" even though banks were suing Jagex for it and threatening to ban their customers from paying Jagex with their credit cards? And there were still quite some p2p bots? How the [bleep] does removing a "minigame" and restricting their players from trading freely (many games have this feature too) "HARM" a large group of innocent players? Its a game. Get over it. The wilderness has been replaced with so many other minigames since its removal. Jagex has already been spending too much time on PvP complainers and whiners, and ending up neglecting the larger part of its players. And yeah, it doesn't matter what I think of you. Quite obvious? Its the internet. I can say anything I want - you can ignore it if you want. And apparently my post is "stupid and ridiculous" even though you can't be bothered to read a few paragraphs in an article that will rip apart all your so-called "arguments"? And its a fact. The players shape the game. The players chose to buy gold with real-life money. They caused the RWT market to prosper. The RWTers use stolen credit cards to pay for membership fees. Banks threaten to sue Jagex. What does Jagex do? Wait half a year to think out a plan? And get sued? Fat chance. The botting situation was not serious in years prior to 2007, but in 2007 the number of bots increased greatly. And please, stop wasting my time with rubbishy crap that has no evidence to back it up. I've provided you with a lot of evidence, so stop spouting nonsensical arguments.

Just continue to ignore them by permanently switching public chat to "off" or "friends" or whatever. I don't think Jagex will be so idiotic to ban someone who's clearly not botting for botting. So don't worry about getting banned.

I didn't check the main post, but did you add in those weapons I suggested? It's ok if you didn't. I know there are already a lot of melee weapons. And sure, I'll try to put in some ideas for magic/ranged. :) And there's one ranged weapon (the discus) in that suggestion. Its just that melee is amazingly easy to design weapons for because of the HUGE variety of weapons used by people throughout the ages.

I give up wasting my time debating with you. I've already said countless times: STOP QUOTING THAT CRAP AND JUST REPLY INSTEAD OF IGNORING POSTS. Hypocrisy indeed. Saying people ignore posts when you don't even make an effort to reply. Apparently you can't reply in a valid way so you just ignore the post, quote some crap and dodge out of the way of the post totally. =D> Lets give a round of applause for the winner of the "dodge the post" award! --------------- Whether f2pers DESERVE skillcapes or not is an issue based entirely on opinion. You think they don't deserve skillcapes just because they work harder. I say they do. How is this issue not based on opinions? And do you need spectacles? I said "saying someone's wrong doesn't mean its a fact." Can't you read? In exams and tests, e.g. compositions, there are many things that are based on opinions. So if an examiner says "this is wrong", does it mean its definitely wrong? No. Whether something is right or wrong is OPINION. Honestly, I'm beginning to question your cognitive capability. Your scenarios are just generalisations and predictions. SCENARIOS. Not real life testimonies. You don't have any concrete evidence or life stories to back up your so-called "scenarios". So stop asking me to reply to them since they are just guesses (intelligent or not), and are not real proof.

Exactly. The logic of this thread is flawed. Apparently, every update made by Jagex is a fail, and yet you want more updates/one update every week? :roll:

Its rarely easier, but most people do it for the fun.

Honestly, RuneScape was and still is one of the "safest" games on the internet. There are lots of protection for passwords and stuff, and if you bother to read the rules or something (or just use some COMMON SENSE and the principle of no free lunch), no one can harm you really, even with the most ingenious tricks/scams.

Honestly, what is your IQ? Or do you have trouble understanding simple sentences? Let me put it in a VERY VERY basic way. If you can't understand this, get the hell out of here and stop wasting my time. 1. People RWT. RWTers use stolen credit cards to pay for members' accounts. 2. Banks threaten to sue Jagex and prevent customers for using credit cards to pay membership fees. 3. Jagex HAS to remove all possible ways to RWT to stop this problem. Who FORCED Jagex to do all this? The players who RWTed. So? Basic enough for you? If you can't understand this I really facepalm. --------------------------- Jagex being careless/stupid? That's totally absurd. Would you have time to think out a well-thought plan with banks threatening to sue you and preventing people from paying you? You'd have to take immediate action. And who caused the problem in the first place? Lazy players who can't be bothered to earn their own money in RuneScape. People who are so addicted to an online game they pay for extra benefits in a virtual world. Please - think before you start spouting nonsense. It'll just cause people to laugh at you. :thumbup: +1 Honestly, his arguments are incoherent, not well-thought out, absurdly stupid and ridiculous.

Honestly, its the internet. People will resort to flaming if their "evidence" in questioned or they have no suitable reply. And really, religion and stuff are all very touchy matters, so don't type anything that might be offensive to a highly religious person. It could start racial riots and stuff.

When did i say that? If you actually read my post, i said that skillcapes arent the only reason f2pers become p2p. I also never said that skillcapes draw people to becoming members- i said that skillcapes becoming f2p won't draw people to become members, making it a pointless update. Take your own advice and learn to read.... especially when i have had to repeat this multiple times Thats right, see above You insulted me for "posting all day". If you think about it, spending too much time on a "stupid online forum", of which you have 3 times as much posts as me is the same thing. So, have you admitted that you admitted are merely cleverly disguised bumps yet? Actually, you are responding to my "half-baked" crap atm, the only thing is is that you are ignoring most of it because you know you can't answer. Yeah, but that has nothing to do with the argument; [hide=wikipedia] [/hide] I would say thats what you are doing now Who was the one who said to stop all these off-topic posts? Talk about hypocrisy. I'm going off topic because you're not responding too my whole argument but just one part of it; as a result, i have to tell you why i think i'm right in only that section, while you only respond to a small part of that. Once again, you are ignoring my argument, and you are only talking to the bit about hard work. Its curious that you say that it is all a matter of opinion, making me wrong, yet you tell me why i'm wrong in a debate that is supposed to be a matter of opinion. Do you think that skillcapes are special? Do you think that they are any different to any other item in the game? And what aboutthe "hard" in "hard work"? And please, you make NO sense at all, i can't even decide what side you are on: Stop being a hypocrite, i can't debate with you if your arguments are going to change every 3 seconds Great job at ignoring my arguments and pretending that you can't read them just because you have no idea how to reply to them. Can't you just [bleep] up and stop bringing that stupid quote in? Just reply to the matter at hand, and stop avoiding it. Its impossible to debate with YOU because you're continuously avoiding the present matter and keep bringing in other unrelated stuff. Just reply and stop avoiding the arguments by pretending you can't read. Saying you're wrong is opinion. A question in a test can easily be based on the marker's opinion whether it is right or wrong. Honestly, I'm starting to question your cognitive capability. So skillcapes aren't that "special"? 13 Million xp - a few hundred hours of slogging away at something? Not special? My foot. You'll probably say "It's just a game, shut up. I don't care. Because its a game, all arguments that it's hard work are immediately declared null and void." as you've said a lot of times already. This is opinion. Just because something is in a game, doesn't mean its "not hard work" in my opinion.

Seriously, are you [developmentally delayed]ed or what? A game is nothing without players. Do you think Jagex doesn't listen to their players? Would they have a game then? Everybody would boycott it because their opinions aren't being listened to. Jagex made it - for who? The players. Who complained about the boredom of shouting "selling ash 1 gp ea" in banks? Who RWTed? Who lured and scammed? Who insulted and spammed? Who flamed? Who got lost and killed? Enough examples for you? Jagex caters to the NEEDS and REQUESTS from the players. It might not seem obvious, but it definitely is happening. Jagex chooses how to fix the problems, but in the first place - who created the problems? Jagex? My foot. There might still be a RuneScape if Jagex hadn't changed everything - but what a poor state it would be in. Banks would sue Jagex, stop their customers from using their credit cards to pay Jagex, etc. So Jagex would lose a lot of money.

Yeah, caps are acceptable, but unbelievably tight caps aren't. They stop or at least limit all the freedom of price increasing/decreasing due to supply and demand.

RWT. :roll: Undoing all the hard work Jagex has put in to stop RWT with such an update? [] LOL!! After karvinen posted, you removed the bit where you commented on how unbelivablely stupid everyone is nowadays. Nice one. On topic, i agree that its annoying but then low leveled armours would be incredibly cheap, which would ruin the game for lower levels because they wouldn't even really need to try and earn money, which is fun... just my opinion I don't know what the [bleep] happened, honestly. I didn't touch the freaking post at all. Must be a mod edit or something. Maybe a system fluke? If a mod had edited the post, honestly, if you're going to edit posts, at least have the courtesy to state that you edited it. It can really draw criticisms and insults from people like ^^. Your assuming nature and way of dwelling on other people is really annoying and not appreciated, so stop it. One more of such posts and you're going to get reported.

Honestly if you make a rant about this kind of trivial crap, you shouldn't be playing a ONLINE MULTIPLAYER game... There are always [wagon] on the internet who don't seem to have anything to do other than fling insults around. If you're going to waste everybody's time and drown out legitimate rants with this kind of shortsighted and pointless, overly-discussed rants, you might as well get off the forum, or else people are going to flame you to hell.

About the new token rewards: I'm trying to think of something now. Hope to update it soon.

Fist of Guthix - Multiplayer Foreword I decided to suggest this because I've always thought it would be great to play a Fist of Guthix game together with a team. The hunted wouldn't always have to be running then, since their teammate hunters can protect them from other hunters. And the hunters wouldn't only be chasing the hunted around - they can fight other hunters to protect their teammates too. Suggestion A multiplayer Fist of Guthix. It could be a new entrance next to the single-player Fist of Guthix crater, and the giant earwig would also teach you how to play it. It is very simple really - everything is the same as the single-player fist of guthix except: 1. You play in teams (up to 4 teams). Minimum of 4 players per team (8/12/16 total), up to 10 players per team (20/30/40 total). -Teams can be of fixed distribution (i.e. half of the team are hunters and half are hunted - so in a four players per team game, 2 would be hunted and 2 would be hunters). -Teams can also be of distribution where the "team captain" would choose the distribution of players (therefore with 4 players per side, there could be 1hunter/3hunted, 2hunters/2hunted or 3hunters/1hunted. There HAS to be a minimum of one of each type though. 2. Charges are individual, but everyone can see the total charges of the team. 3. Charge points for hunted, bloodlust points for hunters. -The hunted can use their charges to "buy" certain items, e.g. bandages and stuff to help themselves stay alive. However, if they buy too much, they'll lower the total amount of charges of the team and might prevent them from winning. -The hunted gain 4 bloodlust points for every point of damage they inflict (it doesn't matter who they attack, hunted/hunters). They can use these points to "buy" certain items to help them kill other hunters/hunted. However, they have to attack to get points to buy these items, so they can't get the items without attacking any enemies. -Items ---Bandages: 60 charges/bloodlust points. ---Teleport Orb: 100 charges/bloodlust points. ---Full recharge of prayer points: 150 charges/bloodlust points. ---Elemental Runes: 6 bloodlust points per rune, up to 1000 in inventory at once. ---Catalytic Runes: 6 bloodlust points per rune, up to 300 in inventory at once. ---Full run energy recharge: 100 charges/bloodlust points. ---Potions--Strength/Attack/Magic/Ranged/Defence+15%: 120 bloodlust points. Defence: 120 charges/bloodlust points. I'll probably think of more items later. ;) There will be 4 stations at equal distances from the fist of guthix and equal distances away from each other. I.e. one in the north, one in the south, one in the east, one in the west. 4. The team who gets the most charges at the end of the 10 minute round wins. Rewards: Tokens. They are divided equally among the teammates. However, the hunters/hunted can get different amounts of tokens depending on how well the group performed. I.e. if the hunters did better than the hunted they will get more tokens than the hunted, but if a member of the hunters did badly, the whole group of hunters would be pulled down along with him. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hope you like it! I'll be adding more stuff later as I get inspiration. Constructive criticism is appreciated, but no flaming, spamming, etc. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Supporters: 6 (including myself) Non-supporters who give appropriate reasons: 3 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Changes made -----------------------------------------------------------------8 Aug 09---------------- Fourth Post on new rewards. -----------------------------------------------------------------11 Aug 09-------------- Tenth Post - some miscellaneous changes like 2 bloodlust points is equilavent to 1 charge. -------------------------------------------------------------------15 Aug 09------------ 16th Post by Hedgehog1.

RWT. :roll: Undoing all the hard work Jagex has put in to stop RWT with such an update? []

In addition, some people think that f2ps deserve skillcapes because they are a big achievment. After all, it is true they are called achievement capes. But are they really an achievement? Do you need to be fit or smart? NO WAY. The fact that the most simple of bots can get multiple 99's should tell you enough. Is getting a skillcape "hard work"? Well no, i don't think so. What makes skillcapes so different from any other item in Runescape? Nothing. They are repetitive, yes, but is it hard? No, its a game, which exists purely to give you enjoyment, therefore you can hardly say that playing it was hard work. Maybe some people can't play because they have REAL work to do. We stereotype people with multiple 99's as ultra cool smart people that are amazingly hard and dedicated workers, when in fact, outside of Runescape they are probably broke people that are too lazy to get a job or something. (i know that not ALL people are like this) Do f2pers deserve Godswords? Do they deserve dragon claws? Do they deserve the whole world (in runescape) simply because its "harder" to get to because their teleports are limited? Good that you realise you've been going off topic. What you said is just a matter of opinion. Whether someone deserves something or not is entirely based on opinion. I think f2p deserves skillcapes, because they work much harder than members for it. We should reward hard work. So your definition is anything that is enjoyable cannot qualify as hard work? How does grinding away at skills qualify as an enjoyable experience? Hardly. 1. Tedious. 2. Boring. Doesn't that qualify as hard work? Your argument is "Just because its a game - anything about "hard work" has to be immediately declared null and void?" What rubbish. Games are for enjoyment, true, but not all aspects of the game are enjoyable. Its how you choose to play it. Its never enjoyable to repeat a boring action over and over again. This isn't what games are for, but players choose to do it, so it can qualify as hard work.

Er... what 'crap'? Well you see the thing is that this is the debate section of the forums, so you should probably say why your right. So could you actually say why my argument is wrong instead of just stating what side your on, that would be helpful. If you want i can repost it. Lets see, you saying skillcapes are going to draw people to join members in one post and then after people see your mistake you defend yourself by feinting ignorance. What mistakes? Rack your brains and tell me why i'm wrong, instead of insisting i am without saying why. Meanwhile, you can tell me how my description of your argument thus far is wrong, instead of flaming me but otherwise ignoring my post. I guess you agree with me then? Hmm...see above. Err if post counts are irrelevant why are you insulting people for posting a lot? And does that mean you are agreeing that my posts were well thought out while your ones were merely cleverly disguised bumps? I guess that automatically makes any argument you had useless....? I never insulted you for posting a lot - I said you spend too much time on a stupid online forum. What argument? I have already posted what i think is your argument, which clearly contradicts itself. Since you have yet to tell me how my description of it is inaccurate, i can hardly debate if i'm not even sure what side your supposed to be in, can I? Also, while i have clearly told you how you have not fully responded to my arguments, you haven't told me how i haven't responded to yours. Its really easy to say something without backing it up, right? You haven't fully responded to my arguments, so why should I respond to your half-baked crap? There are plenty of other posts you haven't replied to. Just go and look. Yeah.... sure, that sounds really convenient Oh sure, just because you've already been found out but refuse to admit it, you turn around and say its "very convenient"? Hmm. Just because you were lucky and all the posts in "f2p mage and range underpowered" were deleted. It wasn't a contradiction. I never said it was. It was an example of your arrogance and irritating nature.

30% hp could be 20+ hp in most cases. You'd want to hit above 20 to kill the person right? And also, note that the katar is a low-strength weapon, so the extra strength would help A LOT. Thanks :thumbsup: !

So what's that crap about me agreeing with you totally? You said f2p DOESN'T deserve skillcapes. I say they do. So? :roll: Honestly people who paraphrase others' faults while ignoring their own mistakes when they "dumben down" their arguments, i.e. you are the type that piss people off. Post counts are irrelevant. Posting 1000 "bump" messages takes about as much time as posting say 25 well-thought out posts and stuff. And I signed up earlier than you. Hypocrisy at its fullest. Its impossible to debate with YOU because you're not even fully responding to MY arguments. Lets see: Unfortunately the whole chunk of posts in the thread "f2p mage and range underpowered" have all been removed by a mod. Otherwise, I'll EASILY be able to give you examples of YOU contradicting yourself. And how about going around the forum as if you have nothing to do but sneer at people and make irrelevant posts? [hide=] So you want me to post a response to your thread in the correct forum? You made your suggestions in the debate thread. What suggestions? :roll: :thumbsup: them ones. Do you know what will happen now? He will call you an idiot, but otherwise ignore your post. Then he will try to make this thread die to "prevent flamewars". Thats what usually happens Honestly [bleep] up. I was going to reply in a civilised manner when you suddenly turn up and spoil my mood. A whole lot of assumptions and [cabbage]. And get lost, will you? Stop coming and replying to my posts when you have nothing constructive to say. Anyway, I wasn't clear what you were writing about, perfetc. Just take it as a misunderstanding, ok? [/hide]

Agreed. With such tight price limits, legitimate trading cannot take place. Jagex has to achieve a balance between limiting RWT as far as possible but not hindering legitimate trading.

Your sig says: "Its life. Just deal with it." I don't know why people like you (and a few hundred thousand others) can't understand that those changes are necessary and RuneScape will die without them. I don't understand, please explain to me. From what I see, RSC died because they released RS2, so, RS2 would die after they release a new game, which would be MechScape. Dunno, just guessing. Though honestly, I still can't see how runescape will die if they hadn't changed everything. RSC died because Jagex made it die. RS2 will not die because of Mechspace, Jagex clearly stated that RS will be their priority for the next 5 years. That's like saying no one will buy old Metallica titles because they release a new album... Runescape probably wouldn't have died if they had kept the trade limits, but they would have lost a lot of money from credit card company not wanting to do business with them because of the stolen credit card problem. That money loss would have meant less updates, and less updates means less members, a downward spiral. Ok, but it still seemed mighty fine during the days where autoers ruled all the resources, with a steady increase in number of players (although alot of those were autoers/goldfarmers), the company still grew in size right? I thought all games faced RWT problems. All games faced RWT problems, but Jagex's situation was more serious somehow or other. Maybe the UK banks are more strict or something? I don't know. You've never tried to woodcut/skill seriously before, have you? If you did, you'll definitely have seen those bald lvl 3 men hacking away at trees, stealing all your logs. How is that not annoying, may I ask? [/hide] Of course i know all games faced RWT problems, but Jagex's reason wasn't because of banking problems in the UK. It was something along to lines of retaining their rights. And, I have tried to woodcut/skill before, and mind you, all of f2p. Before the updates, i was pure f2p, and you must agree f2p had a much more serious problem with autoers than p2p. I have seen all those lvl 3 and 4s with the same name except different numbers hacking away at the same tree or fishing at the same spot, and I have witnessed a yew tree being cut down in less than a second. I got to 74 woodcutting in f2p (and haven't touched the skill for a year+ now) and believe me, it was very painful indeed. Sure, they "steal" all of my logs, but so do other, non autoer people. The autoers used iron/bronze axes, so i dont think they got very many logs. Now, with the installation of the grand exchange, price manipulation has become REDICULOUSLY easy, and it's a perfect example of how the rich get richer, while the poor-middle classed watch their money decrease in value due to inflation. Which isn't fun and in my opinion, worse than autoers "stealing" all of my logs. So would you rather have no RuneScape or a "lower-quality" RuneScape? I don't think RuneScape is becoming worse though. Look - compare HOW many advantages the Grand Exchange brings about. Convenience, ease in selling and buying, no more need to stand in banks shouting "selling ash 1gp ea!" or whatever. And how is it the Grand Exchange's fault that people CHOOSE to use it as a tool to manipulate prices of items? Do you think Jagex WANTED people to manipulate prices? Summary: Honestly, RuneScape isn't what it is now because of Jagex. It's because of the players.