Nifflin

off topic but that is not irony. situational irony.

I got a decent number when I got 99 woodcutting at ivy. I can also confirm that you won't get them from MTK. If you want to chop ivy keep your sound on not to miss the nests. There is a sound like a bird twittering when a nest drops.

Oh look, this thread again.

And that it's even better is you can do zammy spear + super antifires, or chaotic + super antifires.

Then woodcutting and mining would no longer be falsely profitable, people would be incentivized to use other actually profitable methods to train such as combat. Thus the illusion that moneymakers should be close to each other in profitability to encourage diversity in moneymaking methods would be seen as false. Again, alching wasn't the only problem, bots too also create artificial supply. Without them (which will never happen) gathering skills would be much more profitable. In a way, alching and bots seem to balance each other out. Typing this at 5AM before class, sorry if it might seem a little incoherent.

If it wasn't for half-decent mindless magic experience, high alchemy would be worthless. As far as inflation sources fixing themselves, there's a simple thought experiment. There's a hypothetical place in the wilderness that spawns 10k gp every minute. Players fight each other to be there - 600k an hour just to stand there. In every world, everyone has this spot covered. For 200 worlds, the economy is increasing its GP supply by 120 million an hour. Pretty soon its a month later, and 86.4 billion GP has come into the economy. All the prices have inflated because GP is worth less than it was before. Another month goes by, and the price of everything has doubled. That 600k an hour figure now changes to 300k an hour from two months ago, based on its purchasing price. All of a sudden 300k an hour for no experience gained doesn't seem quite as appealing, when compared to other methods, like godwars or barrows (which were about 1m an hour in two months ago terms). Most players go back to their old routine, leaving some worlds vacant. 50 billion extra GP now flows into the game every month, causing inflation to occur much slower. As the GP becomes worth less, standing at that spot becomes much less coveted. Yes, inflation from that spot never truly goes away, but the immediate problem fixes itself. The original discussion was about how inflation devaluates moneymaking methods linked to alchemy (mostly about that anyway). At least that became the last reason Ts_Stormrage had for inflation being "bad" for the Runescape economy. Since alchemy doesn't self regulate like that it becomes harmed by inflation. The solution to remove the discrepancy then is not to stop inflation, as deflation is more harmful, but to remove alchemy.

It's not like alchemy is needed anyways. Most smart people realize other magic training is superior. What function does it really serve? Of course, if it was removed another inflation counterweight would need to be removed to keep things balanced and prevent deflation. Making alchemy adjust to meet inflation is not the solution as you're correct, it would cause runaway inflation which would mess up other parts of the game. It would be unwise to fix alchemy to current moneymakers as the cash brought in by alchemy would just make them better and a cycle would be created. Having alchemy in the first place was an unwise decision, it disrupts the economy be creating artificial limits much like the GE does. Either way it doesn't matter, alchemy will never be removed by Jagex. They are far to stubborn to make concrete changes to fix the economical maladies we are afflicted with.

In response to Ts_Stormrage I understand that exp is untradeable, however it is what assigns values to many items. The difference in how people value different types of exp and the requirements for gaining the different types of exp create discrepancies in the profitability of money making methods. Not inflation. Back to my bones example, inflation effects all bones equally, the discrepancy in their use as moneymaking methods is due to the requirements for the more efficient methods of obtaining them. As I outlined earlier, what inflation does it makes some moneymakers relativity less profitable but only because those moneymakers are tied down by their alch values. I can't think of a case where inflation has caused a discrepancy in two moneymaking methods which are not alch dependent. Thus the problem would be some moneymaking methods being tied down by alch values, not inflation making the rest relitivly more lucrative. The solution would be a reworking to the alchemy system, but thats a whole other discussion. I would also like to say I immensely enjoyed your article too, apart from what we have been discussing of course.

Well it also comes down to efficiency. A lot of RS is about bringing exp into the economy. Let me explain, bones are valuable because they bring prayer exp into Runescape. Their prices are fixed relative to each other based on the amount of prayer exp they bring in. Now what this does is means that different types of bone collecting are differently profitable based on the rate of collection and the total exp they bring into the game (which translates into their price). This is the same for pretty much every item, including combat items which could be argued to bring meele exp into the game. Now what I argue causes price differences is not inflation but different demands for different types of experience. Some methods are gimped however by alching, but this is not the fault of inflation but rather an unnatural mechanism that has been introduced into the game.

And in response to your first attack... Now. I can pretty confidently say that we were not experiencing hyperinflation, especially if you would take time to compare prices over the recent years (of items not tied down by alchemy) to prices in countries which have historically experienced hyperinflation. Therefor we must proceed in the understanding that so far Runscape inflation has been "normal" inflation. In Runescape forms of money are not out of proportion with one another because of inflation, it is because of bots and alching. Now as for parts of the game being unused I would like to point out that regardless of profitability, parts of the game are used it they are fun. Example, Castle Wars. Then parts of the game being unused is not the fault of inflation but rather because they aren't fun. The conclusion shouldn't be that "Inflation is bad" but that parts of the game aren't fun enough or are unprofitable for other reasons. Edit: Lol, now our responses are getting a bit confusing time wise.

Did you ever think that the problem might be alchemy limiting certain skills? It seems like this is the problem you outline in your argument here for the separation of profitability in different activities. However, many activities are more profitable simply because they are more demanding in time investment and in their requirements. These activities justifiably keep up with inflation. You are essentially saying that having moneymakers close together is better, but I ask you, is it really? What incentive would anyone have to boss hunt if they could afk yews for just as much money. Inflation creates demand across markets and encourages trade. This is beneficial to everyone because they are encouraged to buy products and the economy can function as efficiently as possible through subsequent demand and competition between suppliers. The following experts agree with me. Here and here. It seems like you are mistaking the problems of alching imposed limits and bots with something else. The so called problems you see inflation as causing are in face caused by other things. Oh and I would like to add, calling me an idiot in your earlier post constitutes as a personal attack and is against Tip.It rules. No reason to be uncivil.

In Economics, the self regulating nature of supply and demand is generally referred to as 'The Price Mechanism' or 'The Invisible Hand' Excuse me, I meant to say that rares absorb most of inflation and are effected by it more then other items. I don't know the specific term for when a commodity does this so I just called it self regulation.

Hyperinflation is bad, but the moderate level of inflation we were seeing pre-dungoneering was good. This deflation we have now is downright unhealthy for the economy, higher level players especially as most of our moneymakers are suffering. Remember, the RS economy self regulates in that rares absorb most inflation. Really though, good articles, except that mistake in the economics article. Edit: I saw Stormrage had made a comment on something I said and didn't want to double post. "Moderate" level of inflation from the pre-dungeoneering time was anything but moderate... I dare infact call it hyper inflation because it made other moneymakers MUCH more profitable as well... Which is also the point of saying inflation is bad. It rips forms of money making out of proportion with one another, and therefor will leave huge portions of the game unused... Rares do not absorb any inflation at all, because (as ALSO pointed out in my article) rares are not traded for JUST gp anymore... On top of that, the GP does not leave the game when buying a rare... I think the mistake you made is thinking of your OWN economy, rather than RuneScape as a whole...

Me_Hate_Libs.... But seriously, removing trade limit would be amazing.

Newsflash, you don't need to post in H&A threads if you don't want to. If you think a question is stupid then you don't need to answer it. You don't need to insult the person asking it either. He has the right to ask, just as you have the right to be quiet. I don't think you have the right to insult him for asking a question, however stupid you may think it is. On topic, there are Castle Wars clans that win pretty much every game they are in on the fuller worlds. Try joining one of them from RSOF.

If you slay as much as it looks like, you are probably making more then 1m/h.

It's been a while since I burst rock lobs but I remember it being around 5k per crimson charm. Since then, I've heard that it's only better if you have maxed gear. Otherwise waterfeinds are more efficient versus bursting. Barraging is better then waterfeinds however.

Broad bolts will profit and you can do them while you do other skills. They are just a lot more clicking intensive then bows are so for that reason a lot of lazy people prefer bows.

I think the phase doesn't end untill you start getting those "elite" stats. High summoning, herblore, prayer, dung, and of course combat. At least for me I didn't feel like i got out of it until recently when I got extremes and my unicorn.

Save them, you never know if there might be some sort of endurance boss like Jad again where stackable healing, however little, might give you an edge.

Runescape fills the void left by other video games as my computer slowly got too old to run anything except a few old games and Runescape safe mode.

D claws is still the best, however the new sword is better in some select circumstances. Any time it would hit 800, D claws would hit even higher. You're right that they have been declining in price, however I have faith that they will maintain their value for as long as they are the number one spec weapon.

Where is it said that it's supposed to be a combat skill? Some of the familiars I use most are non-combat. Maybe it's just me, but I've found that Summoning has given me 12 combat levels since I started gathering charms. :rolleyes: Then it's a shame that a skill with such potential to help both combat and non-combat is being pigeonholed into being combat oriented. As if enough gameplay doesn't revolve around combat already. What is the point of this update then if summoning is a "combat only" skill? After all, we don't get combat levels from slayer, even though it is clearly a combat skill. Just because we do get combat levels from summoning shouldn't make it a combat oriented skill. Are you kidding me? I'd feel sorry for people fighting me if they didn't know I was packing a steel titan. Summoning isn't an entirely combat-based skill, but it affects combat so drastically that it HAS to raise your combat level. Slayer, on the other hand, does not affect your combat ability outside of being able to kill more stuff than most people. The point is that this update was anticipated to help skillers gain charms through non-combat. Their moving aggressive monsters out of the area seems to point to that anyways. It is a shame then that summoning still seems to rely on combat as the only realistic method for gaining charms. Especially given that the skill has so many non-combat applications. [/hide] Realistic? As far as I'm aware, you can gather charms via sprites. It doesn't get much more realistic than that. FYI, the lava titan is the highest level familiar that a skiller really needs. There's nothing stopping skillers from camping waterfiends for their charms if sprites aren't fast enough. Yak would be pretty useful for skillers. A skiller dosn't "need" any familiars, just like a main dosn't "need" familiars. It's just a nice addition to the game and training. As far as gathering charms with this update it is slow and not much of a benefit to gather charms with due to that. If any skiller is serious about getting charms i doubt they will use this method.

The point is that this update was anticipated to help skillers gain charms through non-combat. Their moving aggressive monsters out of the area seems to point to that anyways. It is a shame then that summoning still seems to rely on combat as the only realistic method for gaining charms. Especially given that the skill has so many non-combat applications.

Where is it said that it's supposed to be a combat skill? Some of the familiars I use most are non-combat. Maybe it's just me, but I've found that Summoning has given me 12 combat levels since I started gathering charms. :rolleyes: Then it's a shame that a skill with such potential to help both combat and non-combat is being pigeonholed into being combat oriented. As if enough gameplay doesn't revolve around combat already. What is the point of this update then if summoning is a "combat only" skill? After all, we don't get combat levels from slayer, even though it is clearly a combat skill. Just because we do get combat levels from summoning shouldn't make it a combat oriented skill.