Goobore

Well, it is something that I have observed on these forums. I doesn't even really matter who is "right". People do tend to repeat the same kinds of highly charged emotional behavior and almost anyone can observe the patterns. Hmmm, I'm not sure that I understand your point. The point that I think is under discussion is basically, "All RS players play RS in a manner to get other RS players to notice them" The key word there is "all" I certainly don't play that way. (Perhaps due to my life experiences and perspective) Somewhere along the way it looks like the "RS" got changed to "real world" and "players" got changed to "people". So, if you are debating "All real world people act in a manner to get other real world people to notice them", then I would (mostly) agree with you. But within the vary narrow world of RS, that statement is not universally true.

Well, I post if I have a comment that I'd like to add to the discussion at hand. Nothing more than that, really.

That's completely denying human nature :| . No, not at all. I don't really care what RS players think but I do care what the general population thinks (real world people). Within the framework of the RS world we interact as fighters, rangers, magicians, crafters, buyers, sellers, etc. That's totally different from standing in line behind some guy at Wal-Mart to buy a donut. You are mixing up game avatars with flesh and blood people. The context of this discussion is, essentially, do we play to impress people. "People", in this case meant other RS players within the RS world. Somewhere along the line it looks like "People" has expanded to include "real world" people as well. (See point #5 in a previous post) So, in case my position is not clear, then I'll clarify it. I don't play to impress other RS players within the RS world. I feel no compulsion at all to try and influence the thoughts or attitudes of other RS players. I feel this way because I have a very full life outside of RS and my experiences in real life have helped me to understand that RS is just a minor game. So using the word "never" in regard to the RS would be appropriate. However, for "real world" events and interactions with family, friends, neighbors, classmates, etc; then obviously I use a different standard. In that case, I do care and I act accordingly. The issue under discussion here (from the original post) involves RS avatars, not real world interactions.

Yeah, exactly. ... some entertainment... i am sorry, but even if you're right, that is a pretty arrogant post. you're pretty much acting like you're always right. i'm not trying to flame you, but that was extremely arrogant of you to write that. Well, yeah. I kinda see your point. It's not like that's how I intended my posts to turn out but when I stuck to my guns about an issue that's what usually happened. It usually got bad when the other guy was arrogant and ignorant. That was always a bad combination. Now-a-days I try to be kindly helpful instead...

I once read in a gamer magazine that MMORPGs typically have 4 "types" of players. They listed: 1) The socializer. This is a player thats seeks attention and loves to interact with friends. Getting money and skills is less important than having fun, being seen, and interacting with others. 2) The scammer and griefer This is the player that seeks to advance his character at your expense. He will do it by luring, scamming, hacking, etc. He enjoys stepping on others for the pleasure of it. 3) The driven This is the player that grinds out hours and hours to make skill levels. This is the guy that wants to be in the High scores, have 100 million, and have a complete party hat set. 4) The explorer This is the guy that enjoys interacting with the game environment, visiting new lands, doing all new quests, etc. My own main is a combination of #3 and #4. I want to be knowledgable about the game so that I can be competent in my skills. I don't think that I used the word "never" Here is what was said: Hehe. No. My statement still stands. There really are some of us players that consider RS nothing more than a minor, temporary diversion from the pressures and stress of the real world. The last thing that I want to do is to draw attention from some begging noob. I just want to be left alone to make another 2500 steel plates. Really Hmm, well on this point I guess that we will agree to disagree. I really don't give a **** what other players think. I will treat them kindly and with respect but I'm not gonna spend any time worrying about what they think. Hmm, did I? Me too

Yeah, exactly. On the occasions when I would get into a "flamefest" with an incorrect player, I actually had a check-list of behaviors that the other guy would usually go through. It was actually really funny to see how predictable so many people were. The most stubborn, well, fools were usually the ones with some very high stats. (Please, don't start on me for being against "high levels" After all, you don't know where I am ranked ;) ) I suppose that their ego got in the way of their common sense. Lower ranked players usually had enough sense to stop posting and bail out. But some of those higher ranked players would refuse to bail out and would start to really squirm as their feet were held to the fire longer and longer and longer... I don't have my list anymore but it was something like: 1) Player posts an error (usually minor) 2) I post a correction 3) Player makes a post saying that my correction doesn't matter and reaffirms his postition. 4) I post additional details about the truth of the matter 5) Player gets angry, makes lots of typos, and even contradicts himself. Player then makes some changes to the subject at hand and talks about how he is right and starts with personal attacks on how I don't know anything. 6) I point out that Player has changed the subject and is now talking about something else entirely. I also point out the contradictions and personal attacks. 7) Player calms down and then tries a holier than though approach. He realizes he's in a mess and is looking for a way out. Usually at this point, the post has all sorts of non-issue related stuff in it. The Player is trying to divert attention from his original mistake and is trying to focus on a minute non-issue. 8) Usually at this point the Player is not responding to specific points in my posts but rather makes vague rambling statements overall like "You are an idiot and I know it all". I point out that the Player is once again trying to change the subject and that his original mistake still stands. 9) Player either goes beserk and a mod locks the thread (deletes it sometimes) or Players bails out with a comment about "Refusing to talk to idiots anymore" What is consistant about these sorts of encounters is how the Player refuses to face the main issue (ignore questions) and tries to change the subject into something that he can claim to be correct about. Throw in some personal attacks and/or "Holier attitude" and you've got some entertainment...

Well, hackers, scammers, and liars, IMHO, act in a way that they hope will bring them financial gain in the RS world. Bringing negative attention to themselves is just a side effect of getting your money. Or perhaps they stole an account and are trying to deliberately get it banned. Or, perhaps they are just trolling. Some people get a laugh out of making other people angry. What about a girl with a beautiful face that goes out to the mall wearing a boring comfy t-shirt and shorts with no make up. Is she deliberately trying to get the attention of the boys as she shops? Just because she's there doesn't mean she's hoping that I'll approach her and start flirting...

Wow, there are some really neat ideas in this thread =D> I hope Jagex is reading it... :D

Newborn babies do. Some of us do manage to, eventually, outgrow that immaturity... Oh, get off your high horse and take a psychology class. We all desire attention, it is a fundamental NEED in humans to survive. I know a man that is 84 years old. I can honestly say that he doesn't care a bit about getting attention as he goes about his daily activities. His attitude is "been there, done that" So, not all of us seek out attention. If this were a serious debate then I would ask for you to provide a link to the psychology study that came to that conclusion. Otherwise, it's just your personal opinion. It's more on the level of common sense. Little twelve year olds sitting at a computer, playing a mindless online multiplayer game getting high levels to have the best character they can lol, not all RS players are 12 years old. The (former) long time #1 crafter is a women in her mid 40s... But what about the more than 800000 players that can't wear any skill cape at all? Your comments don't really apply to us then, do they? It's a general statement for all items that improve ones status, not just skill capes. Well, you did go on a bit about why players wear the 99 skill cape... You really need to understand that there are players out there with vastly different life experiences from your own. And those players may feel contentent with their life, job, finances, family, etc and not feel any compulsion whatsoever to try and impress a bunch people playing an online game. Hehe. No. That's not the most articulate response that you could have given. Would you care to elaborate a bit on your response? Sigh... Some of us have enough complications, stress, and responsibility in our lives that we don't need to seek attention this way. Again, everyone, cut the holier than thou crap and be realistic here. Whether it be subconscious or concsious decision making, we all wish for attention in some way or another. Obviously, some of us have had vastly different "realistic" life experiences than you. Also, please remember that the topic under discussion is the "claim" that "People play RS in a manner to get attention" If you want to talk about the motivations of people in general, then perhaps you should start a separate topic about that. lol, friend ,some of us already have (emotional maturity-wise that is) Cute, insults and denial, all wrapped up so nicely in one line. Sigh... It's not denial. You just need to understand that other people view the world differently than you do. I'm sorry, I'm not trying to call you immature but your comments do indicate a certain "limited" world view...

Unconscious or unconcerned or unaware? The topic under discussion is, I thought, "Players play the game in a manner to seek deliberately seek attention". Maybe that's not what we are talking about here anymore. Just one of the herd.. Nothing ego stroking about that. (BTW, I don't have 86 mining) Attention can happen, whether you wanted it or not, just by the excellence of your work or playstyle. Just because it happened doesn't mean that you did your work hoping for that end result. Agreed. Um...goals ARE leveling, Obviously. But I'm talking about setting, and working towards, a goal of, say, 85 mining when you have only level 58. When you reach level 59, you might feel that is not worthy of note since you still have over 3 million in exp to go. How? If the world doesn't know about it then how can you get the attention? Consider a player that just leveled Strength and a reached postion number 1,000,001 in the high scores. If he were hunting in a deserted area then absolutely no-one would know about his accomplishment. Trying to state the motives of other people can be a very slippery thing. Not everything thinks the same, or has the same goals, as you and I do. For example, I have a hard time trying to understand the motives of marketplace suicide car bombers in Iraq. I guess that they think that they are martyrs going straight up to heaven because of their actions, Not all new skills are obvious. When you fly fish you can catch Trout (who cares) or Salmon (yeah). Many other skills are silmilar, In F2P, full rune can be worn by anyone from Def level 40 to 99. For the sense of pride and accomplishment in reaching a hard to achieve goal. Notice, that's not the same as advertising that you reached the goal. RS is a game that most of us will never "finish" It's like finally understanding an ancient mathematical proof by Euclid. There is satisfaction in knowing that you did it, even if no-one else knows. True, but the whole premise of this discussion is that people play to deliberately get attention and not all of us play that way. Most of the time, I play with all chat options turned off. True, but not all of us seek it while we play this game. Many of us get it in our real life with our friends and families. Nice closed loop logic there... But what if the person doesn't advertise their status as an "outcast"? How do they get this "secretly wanted" unwanted attention? Unfortunately, it relies on correctly understanding the underlying motives of the player. Some of us just want the noobs to leave us alone so we can level and train in peace...

lol Newborn babies do. Some of us do manage to, eventually, outgrow that immaturity... If this were a serious debate then I would ask for you to provide a link to the psychology study that came to that conclusion. Otherwise, it's just your personal opinion. But what about the more than 800000 players that can't wear any skill cape at all? Your comments don't really apply to us then, do they? You really need to understand that there are players out there with vastly different life experiences from your own. And those players may feel contentent with their life, job, finances, family, etc and not feel any compulsion whatsoever to try and impress a bunch people playing an online game. Sigh... Some of us have enough complications, stress, and responsibility in our lives that we don't need to seek attention this way. lol, friend ,some of us already have (emotional maturity-wise that is)

I usually only respond that way when the person uses words like "all" or "everyone" or "best". Many players make statements that are just too broad and need some clarity thrown in for better understanding. And that, you know, that's where the "gentleness" thing comes in. Were they really trying to deceive others or were they just ignorant about their facts? I once had a heated discussion on this forum with a player that thought that any player that made an incorrect statement was a liar. He just couldn't understand that intent made all the difference. Sorry :oops: :-w

But only if you let other people know about it. Even if it's one person, it's still attention. Yes, provided that you actually let someone else know about it. Is it attention that I get when I level mining from 85 to 86 and then tell no-one about it? I agree that most players would, in fact, let many other players know that they acheived such a high goal. But that doesn't mean that they would go out and let the world know about every level thay got in every skill along the way to 99. In other words, leveling is just a means to an end and not something, in itself, worth drawing attention to. Not for everyone. Reaching a goal in a skill could be a means of earning money. After all, Yew chopping autoers didn't reach their levels to get "attention" As I said in an example in my post, it isn't always directly for attention. Well, your overall message appears to be something like "people level for attention" I think that many players feel that leveling is just what needs to be done to reach your goals. Perhaps to allow faster training. I'm sure that we both know that RS has a lot of skill grinding to do and buying certain raw materials can vastly speed up training.

...I Think I need to re-edit my first post and make it say something more along the lines of what I said in my post replying to Auqashock, ... Seems to me that what you are really saying is that it can be frustrating to deal with emotionally immature people. I have found that people don't like to be "proven wrong". I believe that their irrational comments and responses are a self defense mechanism. Sometimes, a good way to deal with players like that is to agree with what little bit you can and then use non-challenging comments about what they are "inaccurate" about. In other words, don't jam their error down their throats but instead, be gentle and non-threatening about discussing the issue. You know, be diplomatic about it.

IMHO, the word "all" is vastly overused and abused... But only if you let other people know about it. Not for everyone. Reaching a goal in a skill could be a means of earning money. After all, Yew chopping autoers didn't reach their levels to get "attention"

Hmm, I don't think that I do. I have enough responsibility and burdens in my life that I definately don't want more clutter in my life. I play RS in a solo style. I don't PK and I am not in a clan. I own no vanity gear and I wear only what I need to wear for whatever skill I'm training. Basically, I don't care about other players think in that I play the game my way and I let them play the game their way. For me, the fun is in achievement and earning greater capability on my main. All of my skills, except for smithing, are "F2P maxed" Well, I don't think that I seek attention on these forums as well. I have no stat signature and my main character name has never been revealed. I'm just a voice from the void, so to speak. I started reading the forums to learn better ways of playing the game, getting items, training, buying/selling, etc. After a while I realized, "Hey, I can answer that guys question!" and I began to post here as well...

As has been written above, try the minotaurs in the SoS. A couple of things to consider... First, the max damage of a Bronze arrow is about (Range+14)/9 and an Iron arrow is about (Range+15)/9 So, you could almost use either one depending on cost. Second, why do you want to leave your arrows behind? If you pick up your arrows then you can get about 4 times as many shots out of them. That's a huge increase in exp. The safe, fast, and easy way to pick up your arrows is to first cast a Curse spell on the monster. That will "pull" the monster over to stand outside of your safe spot. After the monster has arrived at it's kill spot, then you start to shoot it. That way, when it dies, all of your recoverable arrows will be in the monster's loot pile along with coin and drops. Most monsters have safe spots that you can use. In many cases the safe spot is nothing more than to stand just outside of the monster's walk area and shoot it. You don't always need a barricade between you and the monster. City guards and the west Crandor Moss Giant are like that. Finally, take a look at the Tip It Range training guide for good places to use. Hope this helps

SoS is good. You earn melee exp as HitDone*4 so the level of the monster really doesn't matter. You will get the exact same exp hitting a 2 on a Goblin as a 2 on a Greater Demon. So, you may as well make it easy on yourself by killing lower level monsters. That way, you will hit more often (compared to higher (defense) level monsters), you will get hit less, and you will need less food. If you can find a spot crowded with fast respawning, lower level monsters then you could slaughter them non-stop for days at a time. Try the first or second level of the SoS. The flesh crawlers are even auto-aggressive. Hope this helps

There are lots of places that will work well. The main idea is to always fail the Curse. If you do that, then almost any monster will work. I prefer to use a 100% safe place in a multi-combat zone. A popular place to cast from is the key room in the Varrock sewers. Cast across the water at the 4 zombies in the ladder room. Other good places include: the caged red monk under the Varrock palace stairs, Port Sarim jail prisoners, the caged lesser at the top of the wizzy tower, river ducks, etc. If you wear any full metal armor set up then you can get your magic attack stat to -68. That's enough to always fail the cast but you will still get the full 29 magic exp for the cast. You can wear (any metal) full helm, chest plate, legs, kite shield, SoS boots, green vambraces, and the staff. Curse is a very cost efficient way to raise magic but it does require a lot of clicking. Hope this helps

You have gotten several very good answers above. Consider this: (Mind) Fire Strike averages about 19 per cast (Body) Failed Curse always gives 29 per cast (Chaos) Fire Bolt averages about 34 per cast (Chaos) Crumble Undead averages about 39 per cast Mind and Body runes cost around 30 gp per cast Chaos runes cost around 100 gp per cast. So, overall Failed Curses is very cost efficient. However, you can get far more exp per cast with Telporting and Hi-alching. So, Hi-alching is a very time efficient (but expensive) way to level. Slow and cheap or fast and expensive. Your choice. (FWIW, I got to level 81 magic in F2P) Hope this helps

I always liked doing Lesser Demons. They have a decent number of HP and offer good drops. Use the Curse pulling trick, shoot from a safe spot, and pick up your arrows. White knights might be a possibility. They are non-aggressive so a pure like yourself can walk around them in complete safety. You can shoot them through the screen in the screen/torture room on the second floor of their Fally castle. But, they do have good def against range. Use the Tip It range training guide to help you select a place that will work for a pure that wants to pick up his arrows. Hope this helps

Everyone?

It should take you about 118600 Iron arrows, if you pick them up, to reach 99 Hope this helps

Cheapest way for F2P is to make your own Body runes and then do 3828 failed curses. Hope this helps

Well, that's the problem... Not all of us will keep on playing. Players that get bored with endless skill grinding and quit only hurt the ability of Jagex to further develop the game. Players will stay if there is enough entertaining content and/or satisfaction for them...