bedman

Get 94 magic and 80 or 90 prayer. Both ARE ueful.

I have the same thing happened (well not sure if healer or Jad killed me). I however, was convinced I didn't make it. I was like "omfg, I died". Next thing I know I'm outside with a firecape on the floor. Apperantly, right when I died, Jad died too. I even got a "you were defeated message".

Please explain to me how. People get a share worth the minimum. The hilt goes in at med price, and if there's a lot of demand, it might even get sold for max. That's another drain as I see it.

At that time, prayer potions were more expensive than super restores. Same price, more prayer restored and your summon pts (important for resummoning BoB or fighter) restored too, who doesn't want that. If I remember it right, prayer potions were 6.1k each and super restores only 6k each. I bought a good stock that would last me for 90-99 ranged then. Should have bought much more, it seems (they are what, 7k now?). Made a condensed xp rate version btw. I must admit the grey chin rates are a bit made up (rough averages of a few data I had).

I might do that then, cause just writing them down is indeed not very clear. About the prayer: Actually, the only things I've ever used is 10% and 15% prayer. When comparing them, I got 15k extra xp per hour by using 15% in stead of 10%. I don't remember how much more prayer potions I used because of it, but it wasn't much more than 2-3. Let's go worst case, and say it's three. That means I have used 24k to gain 15k EXTRA xp. I have written "extra" in capitals, cause you can see it as "instant" xp. It didn't take extra time to get it. So I'm also saving time. Considering chinning is 2-3gp/xp, 24k gp to get 15k xp instantly, is a VERY good deal. This test was done with red chinchompa's. With grey chins, the advantage wouldn't be that distinct, but probably still very much worth it. (if it stays 5% extra xp, it would be around 12-13k extra xp for the cost of 24k gp). Based on this test, I think it's safe to say 15% is also worth it compared to NO offensive prayers. the southwest corner picture ain't working for me either. I'll try and upload it another time (not on this pc). Thanks for the feedback :-) EDIT: also added FAQ to the guide.

Thanks. I do realise it might be a bit chaotic here and there... In my head, everything was very clear, but once I was writing it all down, it didn't seem that structured anymore -.- About the xp rates: I had them on excel sheets in tabels, and that was pretty clear, but excel tables cant just be copied on here. If you have any advice on how to show it, be my guest. I do remember some people showing their sheets on here, so I know it's possible. I'll try and make these more organised. I'm also a bit dissapointed how I can't provide real proof on how Void is better, and using 15% is better. If anyone has some tests to prove it, be my guest to post them here. Numbers on mummies are also always welcome.

*points at siggy*

Nice guide, but what are the 2 open spots in your invo for? Also, your brew to restore ratio seems very high, considering you have a unicorn and b2p tabs + the best gear. Lastly, some advice on prayer restoring, what to do in between kills (b2p etc) and stuff like that could be handy. Most vital information is included though, nice work.

If you can include B2P this way if you run out of yip scrolls u can use it for food supply as the peaches can heal 10hp each waterfiends are made of water thus 100% drop of water rune meaning no bone drops peaches heal 8 wow ppl r dumb on formus wth i had a post on waterfiends b4 and some idiot told me to do the same thing Before calling someone an idiot check the tip.it bestiary: Waterfiends: * Gold: 2-404 * 100%: Water rune(1,3, 91) * Weapon: Water staff, Water battlestaff, Mithril Warhammer, Dragon spear, Rune spear * Armour: Mithril full helm, Rune med helm, Adamant chainbody, Blue d'hide vambrace * Runes/Arrows: Steam(3-10), Death(9-19), Blood(4-12), Mist(3-10), Water(90), Mud(3,5,7,9), Mithril(90), Sapphire bolt(12-15) * Misc: Raw lobster(4,6,11), Snape grass(20 noted), Seaweed(14-39 noted), Vial of water(5-10 noted), Raw shark(3-6), Fishbowl, Herb(1,2), Mithril ore(1-5 noted), Water orb(3-10 noted), Clue scroll(level 3), Watermelon(1-4), Shark, Water talisman, Nature talisman, Uncut gems(1-2 noted), half keys, Shield left half(dragon), Mithril bar(2) * Seeds: Limpwurt(1), Strawberry(1-3), Watermelon(1-4), Herb(1), Wildblood(1), Whiteberry(1), Jangerberry(1), Mushroom spore(1) * Charms(1): Gold, Green, Crimson, Blue Where do you find bones here? Peaches heal 8 not 10.Don't act smart if you don't know what people talk about. Lol, he was referring to the guy who told him to use b2p.

Aw, my divine spirit shield got fixed :(. Meh, it's still pretty handy. *stops pretending he has one*

where did you read that? And I fixed it now. Apparently, you can't just copy your excel sheets. I just wrote them down manually now. The first picture has like 10 damage splat on it :? So is that a yes or no : Read the guide in detail, and you will find out :-)

where did you read that? And I fixed it now. Apparently, you can't just copy your excel sheets. I just wrote them down manually now.

Actually, you are wrong. With sara, when you get a rare item, the chances are bigger it will be a hilt, since there is only 2 choices. With armadyl, you have 3 other choices next to hilt. Of course, a hilt might actually have the same rarity at both, so arma would be better.

port sarim jail.

I think I know why it was wrong: It's only 18-22 bursts a lure. Certainly not 25. 20 or so should be the average.

Hello, Ever since I’ve been chinning at Ape Atoll, the amount of topics regarding chinning at Help & Advice annoyed me a lot. All the topics had the same question: “How much will it cost me to 99?” Besides that, there were also the people that said you should go to mummies, because you get good drops there. Lastly, you had people telling lies like “bring prayer gear to save prayer pots and save money”. Before the rollback, Muggiwhplar had a great guide on this subject. Now it's gone, and I hope I can replace his guide with something at least as good. First, I will start with 4 general truths. Those may be very obvious to some people, however, there are stil way too many misconceptions about it. Chinning in Ape Atoll is the most cost efficient. It’s faster AND cheaper. Using prayer saves you money. Yes! It lets you get more xp per chinchompa, which saves you more money (+ time) than the cost of the prayer potions. Full void is worth it. I have personally not used Armadyl to compare, but if I compare my xp rates to other people’s, it seems clear it is. Grey chins are in most cases more cost efficient than red ones. This does depend on how much money you can make per hour though. EDIT: As of 20 january 2011, moneymaking methods have improved a lot, and 1m/h is peanuts for most people. This is why I advice to use red chinchompa's these days. Have a look in the guide for more detailed info though. I will prove all 4 points throughout this guide. Atm, I am missing reliable information on point 3. I have personally never tried armadyl, so I wouldn't know how it compares. However, when I compare my xp rates to the rates other people who use dhide or armadyl are getting, it seems clear void IS better. Okay, let’s start with the guide: [hide=Requirements]This is a very subjective point. Opinions on this can vary a lot. That’s why I am just going to give you my (subjective) opinion. I am going to assume you have done the quest Monkey Madness, can wear full void, have more than 10 hp, etc… Ranged lvl: When I made this guide, I was still convinced that chinning below lvl 85 was just a waste of chins, and that the xp difference between, say, 70 and 80 was huge. However, people reported me results that were far better than I had expected. This leads me to believe that the range experience has a linear growth when reaching higher ranged lvls. 90-99 has just as much difference as 70-79 (which isn't too much). The ranged experience per grey chinchompa for instance goes from about 170 at lvl 80 to 210 at lvl 95+. It's up to you to decide when you think the xp starts being good enough. I will put 80 as a guideline, allthough doing it at lvl 70 should be worthwhile too. Prayer lvl: Anything above 43 is fine. The higher, the longer you can stay and the lesser you spend on prayer potions. 44 Prayer for Eagle Eye is also highly recommended. Summoning lvl: Summoning isn't required, but it is one of those skills that can help you speed up the training. You have 2 choices: a fighter familiar or a beast of burden. A beast of burden let's you extend your trips, so you have to bank less. However, even the best beast of burden (pack yak) only doubles your inventory (roughly). Chenjs (pachelbell on this forum) calculated that you "win" around 4 minutes per hour by using a pack yak. However, a steel titan should be able to get well over 30k xp per hour there, and that's worth MORE than 4 minutes of chinning. At lower summoning levels, your fighter familiar gets less effective, but your beast of burden can carry less too, so the principle will still hold. Conclusion: fighting familiars are better than beast of burdens! Note: the difference isn't *that* big, so if you prefer longer trips, go ahead and bring a beast of burden with more supplies. 2 points here: Bring enough beast of burden puoches. You'll need one extra war tortoise pouch, and 2 extra yak pouches. Also, make sure you bring a fighter familiar for when your beast of burden is emtpy! Useful levels: 52: terrorbird (first decent beast of burden) 61: smokedevil (gives valuable magic xp) 67: war tortoise (beast of burden) 72: phoenix (decent fighter, I heard) 79: elemental titens (great fighters) 89: geyser titan (this is when familiars start getting strong!) 95: iron titan (great fighter, use scrolls!) 96: pack yak (the best beast of burden there is) 99: steel titan (the best fighter there is, use scrolls!) Bringing a familiar that gives magic xp might be a good idea, since generally, magic is considered more valuable than melee or ranged xp. Smoke devils, Phoenixes (short timer though, bring 3), and Fire titans come to my mind. However, as soon as you can use a geyser titan you should really use it, because it stands out a lot, compared to the previous fighting familiars. Quests: Rum Deal: This quest unlocks the Holy Wrench. Prayer potions and super restores will restore more prayer points when drunk, with this thing in your inventory. I'm not sure by exactly how much, but say, it saves you 1 prayer point per dose drunk. When drinking 33 prayer potions, you will get 33*4 extra prayer points. That's 1 extra prayer pot for someone with 99 prayer, which justifies the loss of one spot (not even considering the money saved). For someone with a lower prayer lvl, the relative advantage is even bigger. As A First Resort: The pools this quest unlocks are very valuable when chinning. You will be able to run to your training spot in the dungeon with unlimited run energy, elevated hp and elevated prayer. This way you can get there with a bit extra prayer and still be at top health (the falling rocks will more or less undo the extra hp you received). Animal Magnetism: Gives access to Ava's Accumulator. Not really needed though. Do No Evil: Gives access to Ava's alerter (1 more ranged bonus over accumulator). Dungeoneering level Dungoneering is, just like summoning, another skill that can boost up your xp rates. "How?", you may ask. "Rigour", I will answer. This prayer can be unlocked by paying 130k tokens, and is the best ranged offensive prayer there is. It gives +20% ranged bonus, which is 5% more than eagle eye. As you can see, the difference isn't that big, but I thought I'd just put this down here for the sake of being complete. [/hide] [hide=Inventory and equipment]This is what your inventory should look like when you start in Oo'glog. EDIT: I'm going to post an upgraded inventory soon. Obviously bring extreme range potions when you have them. Super prayers are nice too, to extend your trip. Lastly, fighter familiars are more efficient than beast of burdens, so bring those, unless you really prefer longer trips (like me). Note: The 700 chins is just because I was doing a short trip. BRING 3k, or 4k if you have a very high prayer lvl (80+) and a good beast of burden. Equiped: Void ranging helmet + armadyl chestplate + elite void bottom + void gloves + void deflector: This setup is better than the old full void with zammy prayer book, offering a lot more ranged bonus. If you don't have deflector, use elite void top and zammy book in stead of armadyl chestplate and deflector. If you don't have elite void, use normal void. I really recommend getting void if you are going to chin. It greatly speeds up training, and it's a nice set to have for other stuff too. See it as an investment. Alternative: armadyl or black dhide (NO karil!) Fury: I recommend this over ranging amulet, because I value 5 prayer points over 5 ranged bonus. If you can't afford this, use ranging amulet or a god stole. Red or grey chinchompa’s: I will discuss this later on. Bring 3-4k, depending on your prayer lvl (4k if over 80). Bring less if you don't bring a beast of burden. Archer Ring (i). I personally used a ring of life, but theoretically, this one is the best. Ranger boots. The best ranged bonus there is for the boots slot. Use snakesin boots if you're cheap. Do NOT use dragon boots, they give negative ranged bonus! Soul wars cape: HUGE prayer bonus (+12) makes it worth using over ava's alerter. If you don't have access to it, ava's alerter or ardy's cloak are good alternatives. Notes: If you use alerter/accumulator, make sure you have no arrows equiped. The alerter/accumulator will spawn steel arrows in your inventory if your arrow spot is occupied and that's very annoying. Ring of life: Disconnecting ins this dungeon is deadly! Even Drumgun, who is going for 200m ranged xp there, has died there and lost his full void. It's up to you if you want to take the risk, but a ring of life could potentially save your full void. Dragon boots/Karils/other crap: Way too often, I see people ranging in karils or dragon boots. Let me set this straight for once and for all: Dragon boots give NEGATIVE ranged attack, and you DON'T need defence in ape atoll (you pray)! Karil gives the SAME ranged attack as black d'hide, but it degrades! Do NOT use those, since their alternatives are cheaper AND better. Inventory: Tele tab or another one click Teleport. You are under constant attack Monkey Gree Gree. To run to the spot without getting hurt Holy wrench. Saves prayer pots, and extends your trips Antipoison. Super, (+), (++), doesn’t really matter. In most trips, I didn’t even need it. Bring one though, in case one of those annoying spiders gets you. It can save you from having to bank early. 6 Ranged pots (cheap and yet they make a lot of difference. Don’t ever think about not using them. Use extreme pots when you have them (or overloads if you can afford it). 1 Tortoise pouch (you have one summoned too. This one is because you'll have supplies left when the first one dissapears. Discard this when you use a fighter familiar! (and bring less pray pots) 2 Fighter familiar pouches (in my case: geyser titan pouches). They provide nearly free extra xp. The amount of pouches depend on how long they last. Bring about 1.5 hours worth. 14 prayer potions 1 super restore: to restore your summoning to renew familiars. If you are inexperienced, swap 2 prayer potions for 2 baskets of strawberries. This means you are carrying 60hp worth of food with you in only 2 spots. Only brews beat that, but they drain your ranged lvl. Note: when you start in Oo'glog, swap prayer potion for a duel ring and one for the tortoise that you haven't summoned yet (you can't go in the pools with familiars). In tortoise’s inventory: 18 more prayer potions. If you have a terrorbird or a pack yak, or whatever other BoB's there are out there, change your amount of ranged potions accordingly. To do this, take into account you should repot every 5-6 minutes. One ranged potion will last you 20-24 minutes this way. In my case, I stay 140 minutes, so I bring 6 ranged potions. This is what your inventory and summon's inventory looks like when you are running through the dungeon. You have the gree gree equiped. [/hide] All right, the inventory is covered, let’s continue with how to get there. This section will be short, cause it isn’t the essention of my guide. [hide=Getting there]1) Start in Ooglog. Have your inventory as I explained, BUT don’t summon your first tortoise yet. Also, carry a ring of duelling. Deposit 2 prayer potions to make room for the extra pouch and ring of duelling. Visit the agility pool (salty one), the HP pool, and the prayer pool. Rub your ring of duelling, go to Al Kharid, go to the glider, glide to Grand Tree, go to bank. Summon your first tortoise and fill it. Deposit ring of duelling, withdraw your last prayer potions. Discard this when you use a fighter! Go to Daero, go to crash island, go to Ape Atoll, EQUIP GREEGREE, go to the dungeon. RUN through the dungeon. You have infinite energy. Chill out and see your monkey running. If you are having hp troubles in previous trips, hide if there are falling rocks, while running to the spot. I don’t do this personally. Here is a map of the Marim Dungeon. Thanks to tip it for the picture. Notes on the map: The cyan square is the training spot. As you can see, you are safe from falling rocks there. The cyan "1" is where you should first click to when you enter the dungeon. As soon as you can see the corridor where number 2 stands, click on your minimap to go there. This is a lot of distance to cover at once, so you can chill out a bit and watch your monkey run. General notes: Going to the ooglog first is pretty time consuming. I used to do this, because I did trips with a beast of burden (which take a while). If you use a fighting familiar, you might be better of skipping the whole Ooglog thing, since you have to bank so often, and it uses a lot of time. If you don't use ooglog, just go to the grand tree and gear up over there. Bring one super energy so you can keep running. [/hide] The next section is about the chinning itself. This is the most important part (together with the xp rates) of my guide. Make sure to read these in detail, because this is what might make the difference! [hide=The chinning itself]This will be the most important part of the guide. This will tell you how to optimise your xp per chinchompa. 1) First of all, the spot. I know there are several good spots. In this guide however, I will only focus on the one I used. If you know another good one, be my guest to use it. I’m sure it will be just as good. I just find it too much work to discuss them all in detail. You can apply the same tactics to any spot though. The spot I'm talking about is this one: Also check the cyan square in the picture at the section "getting there". That one gives an overview of the whole dungeon and is a bit clearer. As soon as you reach the red circle (actually, that’s a bit early, but better too early to lure some monkeys that wandered a bit too far than too late and miss one), unequip your Gree Gree, and equip your chinchompa’s, put on PROTECT FROM MELEE. You should have 5 monkeys focused on you (check the red crosses on the picture, that’s where they should wander). Make sure they follow you all, and follow the line and hide under rocks. 2) Fighting Tactics. General information Start attacking the skeletons. Put on eagle eye prayer (15%) or rigour (20%) if you have it. Make sure you use SHORT FUSE. It’s the one on the left that’s comparable to the accurate mode. The other mode is faster, but much less accurate. It let’s you get slightly faster xp, but at the cost of using MUCH MORE chinchompa’s. The whole point of chinning is to always attack as much monkeys as possible. Chinchompa’s can attack a max of 9 different NPC’s, so trying to gather more around you is useless. Chinchompa’s can only attack NPC’s that are next to each other so you want them to stand 3x3 square. I have highlighted these in pink in most pictures. I will now list some tactics you should use. Potions Drink your prayer potion as soon as your prayer falls low enough to not waste one. (for me, that's 51 prayer, if I'm not mistaken). This way, if you ever disconnect (DC), your character will keep his protect from melee on long enough, until the game automatically logs you out. I have dc'ed a couple of times, logging in again with like 20 prayer left. If I wouldn't have drank my pots regularly, I'd have 0 left and might have died. You bring 6 ranged pots, and at 80 prayer, a trip lasts 140 minutes (using war tortoise). This means I have to drink a dose every 5.8 minutes, rounded off to every 6 minutes. Of course, you should calculate it the other way round. You SHOULD repot every 6 minutes, thus I bring 6 ranged pots. At lower prayer lvls, you might only need to bring 5 for instance. To know when to pot, drink a ranged potion whenever it drops 6 lvls below your max potted lvl. I haven't done any tests on the effect of potting more regularly. It might be interesting though to see if the rates are any different if I'd pot every 5 minutes, or every 4, or ... If anybody has data on this, make sure to post it here, I'm very interested. Auto retaliate or not? Well, when putting on auto retaliate, you will make sure you are always attacking something when you can. However, mostly, your character will attack the wrong monkey, causing you to only attack like 5 at once. That’s why I mostly DON’T use auto retaliate. It requires you to pay constant attention, but it also maximizes your xp. Attacking the middle one: ALWAYS make sure you attack the middle one. To do this, have a view from above. Hover your mouse above the middle monkey, rightclick, and click to attack the upper one of the stack. Should be the right one most of the time. If this sounds complicated, just look at the picture. Moving: Moving every once in a while makes the monkeys shift and divide themselves better. You want this because new monkeys spawn out of the bones of old ones. However, a pile of 2 bones will only spawn one new monkey. That’s why you move so the bones fall on every spot. This is vital: 2 ORE MORE BONES PILED ARE USELESS. The more your bones are spread around, the more monkies you will spawn! Also, moving around will stop the monkies from forming huge "waiting queues". There are 3 locations I’m changing in between. North west corner. This is the one I use the most. I tend to go to the north east or south east spot, drop a bone (see later) and go back to this one. It can be recognized by the mushroom that's growing right on it. [hide= north west corner][/hide] North east corner. Also note how there are 9 monkeys in only 8 squares. Some monkeys stack on each other. [hide= north east corner][/hide] South east corner [hide= south east corner][/hide] Dropping bones and picking up bones This is something I didn’t do a lot in the beginning. Later, it proved to be invaluable to me. Dropping bones at right locations will dramatically increase the amount of monkeys around you. On top of that, a monkey spawn from a bone will always be aggressive towards you. That’s why I NEVER have to get my monkey reagressive during a trip. The bones issue is easily combined with the “moving”. You search for “double stacks” on the floor. When you see one, take one bone, and walk further to one of the other spots. If you have some bones in your inventory, it can be wise to drop one under you (if none is there) before moving to pick up the double stack bone. In the picture, you can see I’m going to drop one bone under me, THEN going to pick up one of the double stack bones, and then, I will move to the south eastern spot. The circled monkey is a result of a dropped bone under myself while standing in the north western spot. When I will move to the south eastern spot, it will most probably move into the 3x3 square. Don't forget to re-attack a monkey when you arrive in your new corner! Do this as fast as you can. A good thing is to hover your mouse over the middle one while your charactere is walking to your designed corner and clicking to attack the monkey as soon as your character gets there (even a bit before he gets there works). Bones will mostly stack in the squares next to you, so it’s always wise to drop some under yourself. No bones are normally dropped there. The follow picture is a great example. Note: IF YOU HAVE ENOUGH MONKEYS AROUND YOU, DON’T WASTE TIME DIVIDING BONES ALL THE TIME. SEARCH FOR A BALANCE! This is very important. You don’t have to do this “trick” all the time. Do it when you are feeling short of monkeys. HP issues Avoid the [bleep]e traps when you run to the spot at the beginning of the trips. Also, when you take care of a random, refill your summoning familiar, or whatever you are doing that requires you to run around where you normally don't run, watch out for the traps! Avoid spending too much time not hiding under the "scaffold", or you will get hit by falling rocks. When you start doing this, it might be a bit hard to get used to it, and you could get low on HP very quickly. That's why it might be wise to bring 1 or 2 basket of strawberries with you at your first trips. Familiars: First of all a picture to explain why to bring one: Okay, it’s not really proved this way, but really, who doesn’t want a free (pouch cost not included) extra 5-20k xp? I admit I didn’t do any tests on it, but it surely doesn’t hurt bringing one, does it? Notes: Your BoB will mostly die during the trip! You will need to refill it while being under constant attack. To do this, “use” your potions with your newly summoned BoB. It’s a small annoyance, but only needs to be done once per trip. Besides, it’s only 7 potions or so you need to store. If you are bringing a terrorbird, it might die more than one time, so you'll have to do this a few times. I haven't personally used one, so I wouldn't really know. As soon as you see your BoB is empty, dismiss it and summon your fighter familiar! Don't forget to bring at least one super restore for extra summoning pts to summon new familiars! EDIT: It's mathetmatically proven by Chenjs that you should bring fighter familiar over a Bob (when having a decent summon lvl). Logging out You cannot equip your gree gree while you are under attack!. You cannot log out while under attack. The best thing to do is to shake off the monkies, equip the gree gree and log out. You can also log out with the gree gree unequiped, but logging in again will be dangerous then. (If your screen doesn't load fast enough, you might get killed before you can turn on protect from melee). To shake off the monkies, run to the spot in the picture underneath. Avoid the [bleep]e trips while doing so! Normally, the monkies will be stuck, and you will be able to equip your gree gree. Log out in monkey form. [/hide] Next are the xp rates, probably the most interesting part of this guide. (for the countless threads in H&A: "how much does it cost and how long does it take to chin to 99 ranged"). While training 90-99, I’ve kept track of XP rates using different prayers and different chinchompa’s First, I'll start with a condensed version of the xp rates and costs. If you want to get into detail, check the detailed version. [hide=Condensed version of xp rates] These give the averages that I find correct to work with. I only wrote down the essential information. Grey chinchompa's 260k xp/h 205 xp/chin 2.15 gp/xp (including potion costs) Red chinchompa's 325k xp/h 255 xp/chin 2.9 gp/xp (including potion costs) Both are for a ranged lvl of around 95 (tests done between 92 and 98 ranged). The xp rates DONT include the time to bank and getting there. I always started timing as soon as I attacked the first monkey. [/hide] [hide=Detailed version of xp Rates] NOTE: ALL calculations are done with these assumptions: Red chins: 630 each Grey chins: 350 each Super restores (4): 8k each Ranging potion (4): 2.5k each Timing started when attacking the first monkey and stopped when teleing. Ranged lvl of 92-98. The ranged pots/h and restores/h is obviously a fixed value that is the same for every trip, wether you use red or grey chins doesnt affect this. I posted this in pretty pink to make it clear :-) So, here goes. A giant excel sheet with all the data you could wish for. As you can see, I also tried one trip with auto retaliate ON. I used a bit more chins/h this time, but the xp rates/h were higher too. That's why the gp/xp is still low. Don't get me wrong though, I did still manually attack a lot of monsters! It's not like you can just afk chins with auto retaliate on. Actually, with just one test, this isn't good proof at all that auto retaliate is faster, yet as cheap as without it... Comparing Grey and red chins. When we compare the first test of the grey chins with the first test of the red chins, I got this: To get 4M xp it takes 12.3h with red chins 15.3h with grey chins 11.334M gp with red chins 8.816M gp with grey chins Thus, you save 3 hours by using red chins, BUT you pay 2.5M more. Conclusion: Use red chins if you can make 2,5M gp in 3 hours. [/hide] [hide=Choosing what offensive prayer to use]In this test I did one trip with 10% prayer, and one with 15% prayer. As you will see, I got a significant extra amount of xp when using the 15% prayer. Since I can't just copy paste excel tables in here, I'll have to do it with a screenshot. One note: The 0.1, 0.2 and 0.3 aren't decimals. It means 1 dose, 2 doses, or 3 doses left. As you can see, I got 15k extra xp per hour when using the 15% prayer. It cost me only about 23k extra in prayer potions. This is totally worth it! The only other downside is your trips will be shorter, meaning you will spend more time banking. This is a bit hard to take into account, so I left it out. When we calculate the gp/xp, we get 3.035 (10% prayer) compared to 2.92 (15% prayer). Conclusion: Always use Eagle Eye (15% ranged prayer) EDIT: This was tested before rigour came out. If you have access to the rigour prayer, obviously use this over eagle eye! There are a few flaws in the test though: I used the 15% prayer in the first test for like 15 minutes. This however, only makes my point stronger I used the same amount of ranged pots in the second test, even though the trip was shorter. This meant I potted a liittle bit more. But, as you can see, I had 3 doses left at the trip. Those would have lasted me around 20 minutes, which tells us I would have used the 6 pots in 150 minutes as opposed to 168 minutes in the first test. That difference is pretty small if you ask me. The ranged pots are a bit more than 4k an hour to use them [/hide] [hide=Comparing Ape Atoll monkeys to Mummies]This is what I found in a guide on mummies. As you can see, I am getting DOUBLE the experience per hour, using the same kind of chinchompa's. Our lvls at the tests are also comparable. The only other difference is that this guy wasn't using void and wasn't using a familiar. I'd estimate that with void, ranger boots and a Geyser, he could get around 170k xp max. That's still a huge difference, compared to 260-270k xp. Now let's take a look at the price. He says he gets 175k xp per trip. In that trip he uses around 1500 grey chins, 24 prayer potions, 3 ranged potions, and he get's around 270k in loot. Expenses: 1500 grey chins: 525k 24 prayer potions (4): 192k 3 ranged potions (4): 7.5k Note: I took the same prices as I did in my other calculations. They might be off at the moment Loot: 270k. Net cost of the trip: 525 + 192 + 7.5 - 270 = 454k. Thus, he gets 175k ranged xp at the cost of 454k gp. The gp/xp rate is 454/175 = 2.6. That's clearly higher than what I have gotten at Ape Atoll (2.2). Even if he used a familiar and void and gained about 212k xp per trip (175 * 170/140, just an estimate), it would still only be 2.14 gp/xp. That's 0.06 gp/xp cheaper, but at what cost! You are getting 100k xp less per hour... Conclusion: Mummies in the Chaos tunnels are not only slower xp, they are also more expensive! [/hide] [hide=FAQ] Q: Is Void worth getting? A: If you are serious on chinning, yes. If you only want a couple hundred thousand of xp, don't get it just for this. It has a lot of other uses though! Q: Should I use 15% prayer (or rigour), and optimize my ranged attack bonus, or should I don't use offensive prayers and bring prayer gear? A: Focus on ranged attack, through prayer AND through equipment. Chinchompa's are the main cost of this training method, so you wan't to get the most xp out of your chinchompa's. By maximising your offensive bonuses, you will SAVE money because you use LESS chins for the same amount of xp. This far outweighs the cost of prayer potions. On top of it, you save time Q: Why not mummies? These have good drops too. A: Mummies are much harder to lure. They don't respawn off bones and don't make 3x3 squares that easily. Technically, you could get nearly the same amount of xp/chin as on Ape Atoll, if you make sure you only attack if there are enough mummies around you. However, you will loose A LOT of time by this. Time is money, and in this case, more money than what you could have saved by the mummies drops. Conclusion: Mummies are much slower xp, and that outweighs the extra drops you get. Check the section "Comparing Ape Atol monkeys to Mummies" where I have recently added a detailed comparison. Q: How much does 99 cost with red chins if I start at 85? How long does it take? A: You need roughly 10M xp. Red chins are 2.9gp/xp at a ranged lvl of around 95. We'll make it 3 because you start at 85. That makes 30M for 99 ranged. This includes prayer potion and range potion costs. For the length of training: You can get 325k xp/h with red chinchompa's at around 95 ranged, not including banking time and running to there. Let's round it off to 300k if we include banking, and lower xp rates at lower lvls. Thus, 10M xp will take you 33.33 hours. Q: Same question for grey chins. A: We'll work with 2.2gp/xp and 250k xp an hour. Thus, grey chinning from 85 to 99 ranged costs you 22M gp and takes 40 hours. Compared to red chins, you will save 8M gp, but it will take 7 hours longer. Q: What do you do when someone runs by and lures off all the monkies? A: This is really annoying. I try to attack some of them that are close to each other. Mostly I can lure enough of them to me this way. It does slow you down a bit though, nothing you can do about it. Q: I'm scared of dieing there, what should I do to prevent dieing? A: For starters, it's a good idea to bring a ring of life. When you somehow run out of prayer, it could save your [wagon]. Note that DCing shouldn't be a problem here. I DCed a few times while chinning and when I logged in, I still had prayer left. That's why it's wise to always keep your prayer high, in case of DCing. This way your character will just stand there with protect from melee until it auto-logs. Make sure to put on protect from melee ASAP when logging in again. In a worst case scenario where you die, it IS possible to get there in time when you have an Angel of Death grave (5 minutes). Act swiftly when this happens. Grab a duel ring, some super energies, some prayer potions and a few sharks. Greegrees and armour are not really needed. Run like hell. Ranger boots and a fury can also be substituted for cheaper alternatives. Q: Is that Ooglog quest really required? A: No, but I strongly recommend doing it. Not only for this guide, but it is handy for a lot of other things too. Also, WGS is a really nice quest, and in order to do it, you'll need to do this quest too (well, you need the QP atm), so ... just do it. Q: Is old school ranged training actually still worth it? A: Actually, no. With a combination of chinning and aviansies, you can get around 160k ranged xp for free (assuming you are 90-95 ranged, information from Compfreak). No other way of ranging beats that. Of course, if you are already maxed melees, and you want to max slayer, it's not bad to do it through ranging. I'd say, do what you like. Just keep in mind chinning IS the most efficiënt way of training it. Q: Why are there 10 hits in some of your pictures? A: This is my wonderful summoning familiar that's helping me out. I'd suggest to bring one too whenever you can. Make sure you bring a few super restores when you bring familiars to summon new ones! Q: Why do you hit so low with chins on your picture, I can hit 10x higher! A: Those pictures were taken before the update that did every hit and lp x10. (also note the old hp bars). Q: Referring to the pink font in your pictures, are you gay? A: No, pink just really stood out nicely. [/hide] [hide=Credits] Muggiwhplar: For his wonderful guide that shamefully got erased. He learned me the usefulnes of Grey Chins. Chenjs: Used his guide to correct some info, mainly about summoning and training spots Tip it: For their maps, xp tables, ... ... whoever helps me to perfect this guide ... [/hide] Allright, that’s it. I hope you learned something from this guide :-)

Magic. Ever since classic I like the skill, but it still took me 5 years to get it. I dont like grinding.

I always die in situations I cant retrieve my items from my grave: Bork Lagging at steel drags.

One of the things I've never really tracked, most of my trips I end up logging out and can last a couple days lol. If I was to give a very rough estimate I'd say 1k bursts could be done in 45mins and 1k barrages could be done in about 75mins but again these are just very rough estimates. OUch, that's off very far for a guy who has made a whole guide about this. You can do 500-600 casts an hour. Personally, I manage an average of around 570.

Poor MMG, look at all the noobs in RSOF asking stupid questions, and he has promised to answer them all. Oouch.

I was wondering: 1) Does f2p potential carry over to p2p? 2) Did you get all that pvp stuff from pking or just building up drop potential while skilling in pvp worlds and 25k'ing.

Diseased mean they are poisoned. I think you have a too narrowed view on poisoning. Anything that's bad for you when you take too much of it, can be considered poisonous. Allthough, it'd be strange that those berries produce them same poison as the one that other plants get diseased by.

Yes, I guess I was a bit too hopeful of having a way to see if Jagex really does ban everybody they know is a bug abuser or if they are all about short term profit. The person who showed 97M and said he got it from the glitch was probably lying or by far the biggest abuser of this bug. I think the video on the second page might show the spying delay. I watched it late yesterday when I was already quite sleepy, but I think it showed the player using this glitch. For me it says that the video is not available in my country right now. Can someone post that vid instead of a link. I have the same problem. Same, but I searched a bit more and found another one. Might try that too.

That's what she said. :D OT: The only thing that I dislike about some skills in Runescape is that you can take raw materials, do something with them, and you lose money. You are spending time doing something, so why should you lose money? In real life, taking raw resources and creating a product usually makes you money, not lose it. Some skills to name are smithing, crafting, herblore, etc. Other than that, I like almost all the skills, except farming, it is soooo boring to me... All skills can be done for "free". Training a skill by buying the resources makes it cost money. Gathering your own resources will make it more like "real life" in that you will make money. Catch fish (= free), cook fish, sell fish. EEEEH! I'm sorry, but that answer is incorrect. You do not make money be gathering your own resources for making end products, but LOSE money. An example: You gather Green Dragonhides worth 1.5k each. You craft them into Vambraces worth 1.3k each as well as tanning them for an increased time expenditure. You actually LOSE 200 gp on each hide and even more from the time it took to gather and tan them. And in reality, businesses almost ALWAYS buy their raw materials or parts and then use them to produce something worth a good bit MORE than the materials, wages, and time expenditure. I see and understand your point. I was looking at it from a more overall point of view. It is not to say that I train by collecting my own resources. The point I was making is if you have a raw shark that you caught, it is a raw shark, not gp. You could sell it for 1k but you cooked it so you sell it now for 800 gp. Overall, you made 800gp (and gained both fishing and cooking xp). Now if you sold it raw you made 1k gp so either way you make money, it's just a difference in how much. I think it is all just a matter of perspective. In general if one was to train a skill by collecting their own resources, they will be much richer in the end than if the purchased the supplies. Obviously, it RS is different from real life because of xp. I do get what you mean, but I disagree. I'd much rather go and do GWD, aviasies, green drags, rcing, than collecting my own seconds for herblore (or herbs too, in fact). You see it in general, but that gives you a wrong view. It's the FISHING that GIVES you money + fishing xp It's the COOKING that make you LOOSE money +cooking xp Simple as that, no way around it.

So it's cooler to have 100 combat and have 3 99s, which consist of cooking, fletching and firemaking? I am not a bif fan of skillers, but those lvl 90s with 99 fletching are annoying me just as much.