pulli23

And der' fancah void clothin; and holy rock toolsmuhwhatit, they have it so damn easy these days. I remembah when we used ta' run Laws, we had to walk to da' altar, in deh' abyss, both damn ways! *ahem* Again, I'm not thinking about the level 100s+, who do indeed have various methods that earn a considerable amount. I'm thinking more along the lines of the level 60-70 that wields a d scim, granite shield, and rune armour, with like 40-50 in most skills. Those people would be quite interested in raking in 500k an hour. You're right, of course, regarding rich people who would be willing to spend in excess of 50 gp/exp to train Runecrafting quickly. It'd be interesting to see where the equalibirum price would settle for this service. Again, we'd really just have to test it out to see what people would be willing to pay, and how many people would be willing to work for that price. The amount of lv 40-50ish (in skill-average) people has dwindled the last few years so much.. You won't hardly find enough people around those lvls to make a running business.. The mass of lower lvled players is around 60-70ish skills.. So you'll have to make it good for those who can do green dragons. Those people already make around 1m an hour these days. But using runners was never ever a cost-efficient method of training runecrafting: the only reason people did this was because they wanted to have this skill "over" - to have their goal and they would be willing to loose wealth on the way. I do think the prices will settle around 40-50k a "run" (with essence back).

my reply was aimed at alex rose.. He suggested that "400k an hour was way more than previously made". - And while this is discutable (laws were averaging 300gp on members world, yet on f2p often large quantaties could be sold at 500gp ea - made my first few mil merching that). But moreover, 400k nowadays is peanuts, yet back in 2007 it was considerable money. I also just realize that this might have a much better side effect: -It would equal out wealth amongst everyone in runescape. (And not by a forced method which jagex would implement, but in a way everyone is happy). This would be very healthy for the economy I think. (I always see the huge difference between "new" players wealth and "old" players wealth as something unwanted).

I do see your point, which makes sense, but if I may ask, why would it be guaranteed loss at all? Anyone fighting with a 0% chance of winning would be incompetent. In the case of 60%, you would still make money... Hopefullly. but in case of 50% (which is ultimatelly the case for the average pking scaper) you will loose money - on food etc. It's like entering a lottery then: the average return on a ticket is always smaller than what you paid for.

I'm saying that the inflation has resulted in everything being around 500% more money.. Previously thebest methods made 800k-1m an hour (nature rcing). - Law running made 200-300k an hour (really depending on your willingness to sell). + many, many people did it to just get laws for use, not for profit at all. Now the best methods make around 4.5-5m an hour. To attrack runners you hence need to make the profit for runners around 1-1.5m an hour!

As said there are a few different things: -previously merchanting wasn't that hard-cut.. If done well one could sell decent (like 1-2k at a time) quantaties of laws at 500 gp each (meaning it was around 400k profit for lawrunning). - Also many did this to get laws for personal use (and since trading wasn't so easy this was a good excuse to make less than good money!) -Making money was much more difficult: making 1M an hour was the very top money.. Now that is comparable to like 5M an hour nowadays -It always only drew the attention of the lower lvl new p2pers (those who's skills don't surpass lv 50).. Now lvl 50 is gained about twice as fast, so to get to the same amount of people you'll have to make it the best money maker for everyone untill lvl 60ish stats. So if comparing the methods you'll be wanting to give the runners around 1-1.5M coins an hour - otherwise no runner would come. 1m an hour is possible with other-no-skill methods. Now let's look to the facts: when I did zmi, I averaged a lap-time around 80-90 seconds. - I'm not really a perfect efficient runner, however after running countless laps I think this is a fair average. Given extra time to trade let's say a run is 100-120 seconds.. That means 30-35 runs an hour are possible.. So to make this an efficient money method for runners, you'd have to pay the runners around 50-60k each "lap". - Wether this means 3 times 20k for 13 pess, or 1 time 50k for 26 pess depends on what's more efficient to craft. ps: I always assume the crafters are always giving pess back to the runners - as was usual.

On the runners side: when doing 4 trades in 2 minutes (4 times tradeing 13 ess, 1 minute walking) - 25k would mean 750k coins an hour.. Not really worth it!

Zezima was the number 1 of a complete different runescape than it is now: He was mostly (if not all) a do it yourself - type person. Disliking having to trade with others even. He often said that he would rather spent time skilling than spent his time dabling over money. Current runescape is very unfriendly for DIY type players, so I don't know at all if zezima would even play the current runescape as much as he would play the old runescape of 2005 era.

Well, there we have it. I took it for givens that we were discussing high level staking because it's the highest level of risk. If you are talking about random low levels staking tiny amounts, then yes, strategy starts to come into play. I was talking about maxed melee fighting each other with all slots except weapon off, dragon dagger specs with whip normal weapon. THe biggest amount of cash didn't revolve around the mains & maxed people (besides in 2007 being maxed was something rarely seen). The big amount does revolve around those lv 80-100 stakers who are build specifically for staking! (and start building new characters as soon as your staker gained 1-2 extra lvls).

Uhm the clicking requires pretty much efford. (and patience). It isn't entirelly safe (so you'll need a mass of people already before running becomes safe)

The tip.it guide actually says the armour the wrong way round: you should take defense against what tip.it recommends to pray against, and pray against what tip.it recommends to def against. Also: -Standing to the sides means her melee attack won't hit the warriors as well as that the rangers can't hit OVER the queen. (so you can block them behind the queen). When I did these things I suddenly could kill it with ease!

I'm still of the opinion that overloads should be allowed.. However the problem is the big gab between no use = huge use in herblore. There should also be "minor overloads" at lvls like 60 & 40.. That way everyone can get at least part of the advantage!

Or just do like me and leave it for "whenever I am in dire needs of some quick money". - Been that way for 2 years now. Also it entirely depends on the market.. But I wouldn't go there more often than twice a day!

lol remember the cart at the moungers in west ardougne? Being the same as the one in the slave mine of meyerditch?

ZMI doesn't get you any decent runes, but it gets you $$$. That's what is important to the runners, unless its natures/law - although I must admit I can't fully remember how those work (is it you get paid money + runes, or you get noted ess + runes?). But yeah, the end money/expensive runes is what matters to people, I remember as a lower level I ran laws to make money. you gave unnoted ess and received noted ess + laws - the idea was also that 54 runecrafting was a massive skill level by that time.. It was only something less than 100k people had! That's why it was so succesfull!

Well, they are allowed to do that, because after all, it is the wilderness. Did skillers feel they owned the wilderness? That they shouldn't be attacked because they're "skillers"? All this time, I've been sympathizing with some of the people on here who said that PKers could be [wagon] sometimes, but all this constant complaining about something that was meant to happen... :wall: Look, you close the warning box, step over level 1, and you have a chance of being killed by another player. Whether or not he's nice or a douche doesn't matter, he's allowed to attack you. If you die, that means you came unprepared. You could gear up and fight back. See that RC pker over there? Fight him, make sure he never messes with you again, make sure he gives you back that glory amulet and knows whos boss. Never said that skillers should feel entitled to be left alone in the Wilderness--- in the past, the Abyss was balanced because it offered a great increase in output but at the cost of increased risk due to PKers. I was just explaining the rationale behind why some PKers choose to target defenseless prey instead of targeting people who are tougher battles but offer the potential for better rewards. And FWIW, fighting back against PKers is counter-productive to efficient skilling. If people didn't want to die to Abyss PKers, they should wear some of the pro gear I saw some people wear; Bear heads, black d hides, glory, barrow gloves, ancient staff, mystic boots, god cape. All stuff that maximized mage defense. Sure, it made it a bit more risky but they were almost never PKed. I gained to 88 rc through abbys crafting: and well you were pked.. every once in a while. Though it was something you just took for granted - you just subtracted a glory + black dhide set every X rounds. (And I sincerelly miss that time, where also in skills risk vs reward played a big role - now skilling has no risk anymore at all). And if you really feared it you wouldn't take a glory: you would take home teleport tabs and use your mounted glory!

They need to fuel their food supply!

they only increase the drop rate of high value (determined by alchemy coins) non-monster specific drops! (so drops you could expect on any monster)

99% of the skillers/clue hunters will still not choose the pker option.. So still no (or only very minimal) amounts of value will enter the pk-territory!

They'd just create new accounts. @Changing essence split: the time to unchange it was while trade is restricted. Merging it now would be unfair to f2p and would increase the RWT problem unless they've got a different plan to combat bots. You know it was splitted way, way before the restricted was introduced?

They said they could handle the problems.. For them the problems were the usage of stolen credit cards. - And I think they can now handle the companies threats!

I think nothing has changed: crapier + def is still worse than z spear.

No one in their right mind would pk if it was a guaranteed money loss case. Or pk if the odds are like 40% loss.. The problem with only pker worlds would mean that only pkers go there.. And if 2 pkers fight each other the end value is always less than the start (since you don't pick up everything, and food is lost during the kill). Thus ultimatelly no pker (apart from the absolute top) can survive pking pkers alone - they'll run dry on money sooner or later. And without the big bottom group pkers, also the top can't survive. The bottom group needs skillers/random strangers to feed upon. Small clans need the sole pkers to make profit. average clans need the small clans. and huge clans need the average clans to pk against. Simply without an incentive for skillers/clue hunters to go in wilderness there is no value going "into" the wilderness: the only thing is that the wilderness will drain value. And ultimatelly pking will die. (This happened in the very first few months after the trade updates, when 26k wasn't possible yet and jagex thought people would "pk for fun"). So let's look at the options: - No incentive to skill in the wildernes means the wildernes would become a value drain: pking is unsustainable for the average pker to do. (and pking will slowly die) - Currently the system (where drop is determined by the program Yet skillers don't have to go there) indeeds makes pking profitable: however it is very easy to abuse and hence lead to massive inflation over the last few years. - The old system (where skillers would bring in regular money while doing clues/mining runerocks/abbys rcing/training in axe hut) was a stabilizing system: value was brought into the wildernes, yet as players determined what to bring it would never be too much. - Yet also not too little. And especially the fact no cash is generated is important (so wilderness isn't really a point of massive inflation for high end items, though it does inflate the prices of food/potions)

Oh don't worry, I have enough high level DG friends to never have to DG with people like you again. We don't need to change ourselves because we've already far surpassed people like you. Funny how that works out- you make an effort to do something the best way and you end up better at it than other people. elitism at its best worst! Does this really have a place at a public site such as tipit? Anyways I'm telling you that I think someone who can make a dungeon with random (but responsive/kind people) decently fast is more proffesional than someone who does it with a set team of people. And then suddenly leading skills & also capability to find the golden middle is important!

If they are kick them from your team? - If I key (I'd love to do it once in a while in good teams I AM the one who often remembers doors more, however as I keep forgetting to hoard food I keep getting no food as keyer) I simply demand the rest of the team to be responsive: otherwise I'll just sit down and read a book. - I'm not a natural born leader and won't try to convince others to follow me, so if they don't follow be my guest and do it your way. That is IF I key.. @obt: way to take a quote out of its reference (it was ment against greens post, your post was edit while I was making my reply). But this thread indeed interests me a lot, maybe in a different way than you though.

Why shoudl "I" move and not "you"? And as I keep saying: when working together you've got to find the middle route. Once you decide to team up you're in the same boat and you'll only get out together! @Obt: I define pro as being "proffesional": knowing everything, being very good. Now let's look at dungeoneering: what is it - what makes this skill special above other skills? - It is a skill which requires a team to complete dungeon and beat a final boss at the end of the dungeon, working together to solve the impossibility of a sole person. I see 2 important keywords there: team & working together I define the quality of a person in this skill by these 2 words. Someone is a "pro" if you are good in these keywords. If you can work as a team (or as pro: make people who can't work as a team suddenly work as a team), and if you work together. Just FYI: I'm not a pro, nor will I ever be. I'm not a natural born leader - though in my study I am taught how to lead people.