strilmus

Yeah, if anything people will wait for the price to fall a bunch and then pick up the slack and it'll stay somewhere in the middle.

I'm gonna guess they're just normal longbow speed. :P Withholding judgment on that bug mess seeing as nobody can actually know what the inner workings of Jagex are like with code as opposed to completely stupid decisions made public.

Normal summoning. It comes with scrolls. Reverse the flow of thinking. There are now hundreds of thousands of resources now available for everybody to start cranking on herblore and maybe construction. This may be your in.

I would say that in order for it to be worth it, it would have to be closer to 3.0 or something in order to make up for all the time you would take just to get between training areas if you stuck true to the nature of the tool and followed along with every selection the tool makes.

For instance, artificial environments like this have much less physical restriction on supply, and is more determined by the reasons we may require limits in place in order to regulate the experience. In this case, people feel that the value of the item rests with the individual having it over somebody else because they are better at playing the game, and consider their right at the cost of somebody else's potential to be upheld by the honor system. On the other hand, technically it wouldn't make any actual difference if other people had them, if not for public perception. If this was a single player game, anything you own in the game would have pretty much no effect on anybody else's gameplay. But it does matter because people think it matters. And that's the basis of persistent world game economics. If you say you hog a spot because you believe it is the only way for you to make good money, then say that you would not want instanced boss locations because it would remove the purpose, then would that mean that you pretty much advocate this system that prevents all the players who joined after you did from ever being able to play the game like you did until the experience is robbed of all potential enjoyment? Does this actually need to happen?

Just as long as you're both mature about it! :thumbup: Also I'm just using general MMO concepts extrapolated from a series of games in the genre which should be close enough to this specific case.

I'm not sure if having a larger stake of interest in the related topic makes you more right on basic principle (blah blah bias danger), but in this case, until Jagex stops intending for drops to be heavily valued limited supply single items, the scale currently tips harder in the direction of the individual over the community. I'm sure Jagex would largely deny specifically designing their game to restrict public non-PvP content to the strongest, most amoral players though for the purpose of distributing enjoyment of their game to them over the rest of the playerbase. Not that I have any problem with it, it's really the ambiguity that bothers me.

I see two groups of people, one that is acting under the belief that the way RS is set up is for people to use their superior abilities to carve out a place for themselves in the game because they are all competing for the same resources, and the other that believes that the RS community benefiting as a whole rather than rewarding the strongest individuals with the lion's share of the loot would be a more even handed approach of mutual interest. Both of these viewpoints are valid in this environment. On one end, we have a game that was designed mainly for the individual, who toils countless hours alone in order to claw their way up the leaderboard and look cool, and on the other hand, this is a multiplayer game that heavily enforces honor for others (or at least tries to) by restricting players from being able to directly take something from somebody else outside of a PvP situation, and often activities are designed to require teams (dungeoneering was originally exclusive to teams) and give a lot of support to community activities. The need for stability in the game world is important, because a world ruled entirely by force is rather unpleasant for the losing party, while on the other hand if somebody has outsmarted or outmatched their peers, he would have earned his keep. Jagex is somewhat noncommittal on the matter, because they have to be. They reward the highest ranked directly or indirectly for being the best. Then they start designing content that rewards teamwork more than the currently existing similar methods for individuals. Then they break down and give the individuals better stuff again. And so on. Single drops that are so valuable by themselves and are impossible to be owned by more than one individual. Coinshare. They try to be everything at once, and it is a hard job. And there's no way they could focus on one more than the other because the player base isn't strongly affiliated with either side. You hear somebody important say that they entirely endorse the "might makes right" situation in the monster hunting business, and then somebody else also important gushes about how they enjoyed building team based situations. And it's kind of irritating both sides. Do you believe that the game should be designed so that your only option (or at least, the only option you can think of inside of your box) for game enjoyment requires you to limit or entirely block the enjoyment of the rest of the player base? Or should everybody be given the same opportunities regardless of their playing style, their overall clocked time, or general ability because at the end of the day everybody's paid their five-ish bucks and are playing the same game, even though some are better at it than others, and arguably deserve more reward for more effort? Is your percieved value of something entirely dependent on the fact that somebody else doesn't have it? Or if somebody else has it and you don't? This philosophy debate is not offtopic because it is really the heart of the matter here. Do you deserve a spot because you're better, or because it shouldn't matter that you're better?

Yeah, that whole thing didn't really stop them at all. But hey, that's the kind of attitude that leads to massive game changes happening because you couldn't be bothered to care while you were feeding your greed, and then complain afterwards and blame it on Jagex for not doing something while you were busy not helping.

Being color customizable doesn't hurt either.

BTW, experts with creepy eyebrows have said that the one child policy has already slowed the population expansion to the point where it will start declining within our lifetimes if it continues. But seriously I'm kind of bored with all these boss hunting activities being introduced that I can't participate in without adhering to that lifestyle, while anybody can just jump into skilling to the point where the overall experience is devalued and then overrun by bots.

I've both heard comments about "BRING BTS BACK" and "it's better to make content and then release the info". One complains when the other happens. As far as we're concerned there are people who hold opposite viewpoints at about an even ratio. Who do they listen to? Honestly I'd rather see them run ideas past the community first so we can find out if they're going to mess up with user perceptions again, but since they're so paranoid about anybody actually caring enough about RS to steal ideas, it's never going to happen. Any kind of bluhs regarding late releases due to content polishing are easily ignorable as long as it doesn't take forever. Same people say that the update needed more polish after a rushed release. Forget them. :P

More time? I think people monster hunting use time at the same rate as skillers. I don't know how they could use time faster. More money? Where did they get that money from? Monster hunting. How can you ask a skiller to invest money that they don't have? And why is the best skilling equipment (as in the dragon axe and pick, not the clay gear) distributed through monster hunting and subjected to similar monetary levels even though skilling is not on the same level of money making? Risking more? Certainly. But that's part of the "more money to start with" issue again. And if making money is so much better with monster hunting, you'd still be gaining more money even with a few sour runs every so often, which then makes this a fake risk if the odds of losing your gear is low with the use of gravestones. As for saying that a well trained person could dominate a bot spammed zone for easier kills, that would ultimately still increase the amount of those drops entering the market if there's a lot of bots and a lot of people riding off of those bots, and devalue it. Better yet, there could be a player using their own bots as meat shields. Would you be able to face them down? Would people be able to know the difference between somebody exploiting somebody else's bots for kills and somebody who is using their own bots? And while people are not present, the bots will be there, still fighting. And while you're opposing them on one world, there will be another world where they are not being confronted, and are making good money. There are many parts to this scenario that make me doubt that there is a net benefit to this.

Hm. At the end of the day, if it's acceptable for people to just have something do the playing for them, then at that point we have to start questioning the point of actually having that feature, or having to allow all forms of technology based game automation to the point where most of the strategy to the game is located outside of the actual game. Regardless of how much money anybody is making doing anything, or how easy or hard something is, if you think that you're more important than somebody else because you consider your skills more useful and less stupid, when you're eventually rendered obsolete by similar means or an entirely different method comes up, like perhaps epic skilling with actual skill and risk or say, artificial price inflation, you will just have to accept it and not say anything at all like how your effort means more than theirs because your way was better (because your effort to make more money in a shorter amount of time was apparently tougher than somebody who has to spend more time than you to make an equivalent amount of money.....'the hard way' ha, as if, hunting monsters is much harder), and then they come back and say that since they're doing it smarter, they deserve it more. I can just imagine it now.... "I mean, it's stupid to play your way when we have things that can do it much easier and faster even though it's not through ingame means, right? Why monster hunt when it takes much more intelligence to set up organizations and manage the collective sheeplike intelligence of the poor, which is totally different from taking advantage of bots to fuel your monster hunting by driving down prices?" Or perhaps they'll figure out how to throw a bunch of trained bots at bosses to tank hits and rake in all the loot for themselves (you can do a lot with disposable attack dummies in a multicombat area), using barrows armor that they also used bots to automatically harvest, which drove down the price of barrows to the point where they had to start getting more creative. Hell, they can just use a ton of cheap rangers instead if they want to, raising funds by spamming all of your favorite slayer spots with more attack bots to collect drops. Sounds like a stretch now but when it happens you'll have to get an umbrella to shield yourself from the baaaaws. My blatant point is that if it ever happened to you, you would totally complain about it.

So, what would be an enjoyable quest situation for you?

If one day you're bored and have several people on hand, it's fun to go out and totally mess up the chin bots by suddenly flooding their targeting zone with so many traps (or other random stuff like fires) that they end up automatically placing their traps really, really far away. You can even compete to see who can get them to wander the farthest.

Yeah, ol' d-hide design doesn't hold up to the newer shinier armor models.

And lose Tip.It's platinum status because one of the moderators questioned Jagex? What are you, nuts? What, are you kidding? When they need ripping on I AM THERE. I understand their whole sympathetic character thing but sometimes I wonder how far they can go with their mistakes. Also perhaps if they are human, they should at least stop acting like everybody's arguments are invalid by picking on the stupidest people and using that to shield themselves from ALL criticism. And thinking they can just make everybody forget by not admitting to it is like founding your company on LIES. Bluh bluh bluh running a company excuses you to do bad things since saving your own butt is more important than anything else and it's always the easy way out whenever something goes wrong. NO. Seriously. Anyway, as a "inexperienced company" running one of the longer existing MMOs it seems like they could try to think things through or at least use their hilarious breaches of trust to make significant changes to their game that would actually benefit everybody as a whole. Let me ask you, did the people they were trying to help with the boot update actually get helped? I'm willing to forgive every single "insignificant" thing that went wrong with that situation if at the end the thing they wanted to do got done, instead of making the boots higher in price than other better boots so that the climbing boots become useless, or that some people gained a lot of money at no cost to them which then made a huge fuss. A similar devaluation to mint cakes didn't cause nearly as much trouble and it was complained about too but not vocally enough for anybody to care. That kills the whole "everybody complains" excuse. Anyway, I'm sure they think they're golden now that they're releasing updates that sound like that people want them, but frankly I don't think it excuses them from making messes and not fixing them for years, and then coming back later and fixing it, which either doesn't do anything since it's way too late to help, or actually causes larger messes since they once again misfire since they didn't learn anything from the first time and do the same thing again, only differently. And then they don't do anything AGAIN for a few more years because they think that they gave it their best shot and it isn't worth it to try again because they think we won't be satisfied. But.....the reason why we're not satisfied is because THEY DIDN'T TRY AGAIN. Frankly the main reason I've stayed is because they still have untapped potential and the resources to make it happen. But now it's pretty much the only reason left. Addendum: I don't mind the mistakes themselves even if things seemed obvious just by stating the process out loud so that you could hear it sink, it's what happens AFTER the mistakes that makes the difference to me.

I'm not really sure why they're always on their 'holier than thou' kick and not admitting to what they did wrong, but what they did solved nothing, and they seriously need to pull it together or risk rendering our faithful years of staying on their old ship pointless even after everybody else long abandoned it for greener pastures.

That wasn't enraging everybody enraging. People actually liked it! And there weren't any requirements to like it aside from being a dashing adventurer. Here it is only the people directly benefiting from it that liked it. Nobody actually cared about the price balancing and it was largely unnecessary. If it was to be done, it could have been handled better, and it would have just faded into the mists of time.

I have this flux capacitor strange key right here, and there weren't any boats involved at all!

Well, to be fair the dragon weapons all look radically different from their human counterparts, but serve a similar purpose. The fact that different human weapons exist with similar properties (It's got a handle! It's got a hurty part! They're copying each other!) should be a strange idea to you too. If you want some confusing nonhuman weapons we can just talk about the tzhaar.

I'm only really frustrated at all the things they could have done something equally enraging with but could have done more for the game. And they blow it on climbing boots. Wasted opportunity.

I find it quite silly that folks are trying to defend something that we don't really give a rip about just because it allows them to soap box about Jagex for the hell of it. When I soap box about Jagex, it's on things that actually make sense. Yep.

Well, actually, it hasn't always been "broken" since combat started from just melee and evolved further. The combat triangle as it is didn't exist for quite a while, so I think it's more of a result of having to develop from gradual changes which forced it to adapt in ways that are not ideal for balancing. It is up to them to figure out what they want to do with it, though. I laugh to think that we could ultimately influence their decision on the matter. We may as well be a puppet show to them.