Zaaps1

I think it'd be worth a try to go there without DH and see what it's like. It's faster than ZMs, I can tell you that. If I were you, I'd give them a try with standard praying gear (prossy, etc.). What do you have to lose, after all?

You misunderstand what I mean. I'm saying that ZMs are NEVER a good option. Let's compare: AZs: 100k xp/hour, 180k profit/hour ZMs (altar recharge): 98k xp/hour, -20k profit/hour (eg. 20k loss) ZMs (ppots only): 110k xp/hour, -105k profit/hour (eg. 105k loss) AZs compared to method 1 of ZMs would mean you are "paying" 200k in order to get 2k LESS xp per hour. That doesn't make sense does it? So Recharging at the altar is a completely worthless method. How about method 2? You are "paying" 285k in order to get 10k MORE xp per hour. How much does that 10k per hour save you? Well, you get 10k xp in 6 minutes. So that means you are "paying" 285k in order to save 6 minutes of time. If you can make 285k (profit) or more in 6 minutes, then ZMs are the better option. However, making 285k in 6 minutes means that you must be able to make 2.85m per hour. That is almost impossible to achieve, unless you are extremely skilled in merchanting. No other method gets you an average of 2.85m per hour (you can't count getting "lucky" at GWD or 26k'ing because that doesn't give you an AVERAGE). Therefore, ZMs are a bad way to train combat. There is almost no one who can say ZMs are better for them over AZs, if you look at it this way. i think you misunderstand me. i knowthat AZs are best. i dont deny it. but i am not goig to do the 15+ hours i would have to put in to do the quest when i could be doing something else for those 15 hours. i am looking for a place i have acess to now. therefore as far as i can tell my choices are betwee the ZMs or the gorillas. Reread your post. Yes I did misunderstand you. Sorry about that. ZMs and Gorillas, in that case, are both terrible options. Gorillas are even lower xp, something like 70k. Best option for you, then, would be to DH Skeleton Monkeys. It's 140k+ per hour at a cost of about 150k-ish. There's a guide in the AoW.

You misunderstand what I mean. I'm saying that ZMs are NEVER a good option. Let's compare: AZs: 100k xp/hour, 180k profit/hour ZMs (altar recharge): 98k xp/hour, -20k profit/hour (eg. 20k loss) ZMs (ppots only): 110k xp/hour, -105k profit/hour (eg. 105k loss) AZs compared to method 1 of ZMs would mean you are "paying" 200k in order to get 2k LESS xp per hour. That doesn't make sense does it? So Recharging at the altar is a completely worthless method. How about method 2? You are "paying" 285k in order to get 10k MORE xp per hour. How much does that 10k per hour save you? Well, you get 10k xp in 6 minutes. So that means you are "paying" 285k in order to save 6 minutes of time. If you can make 285k (profit) or more in 6 minutes, then ZMs are the better option. However, making 285k in 6 minutes means that you must be able to make 2.85m per hour. That is almost impossible to achieve, unless you are extremely skilled in merchanting. No other method gets you an average of 2.85m per hour (you can't count getting "lucky" at GWD or 26k'ing because that doesn't give you an AVERAGE). Therefore, ZMs are a bad way to train combat. There is almost no one who can say ZMs are better for them over AZs, if you look at it this way.

Let's say we put aside the costs of both methods and completely ignored them. Would making flatpacks of teak carved tables or making Oak Dungeon doors (then removing) be faster xp? Which of the two gets me more xp/hour? Is there something better I could use the teak planks on? Or are flatpacks the best option?

So you did. That proves nothing. If you spent 5 minutes making pots 4 years ago, does that mean it's worth less than 5 minutes right now? No. It's still 5 minutes of your time, regardless when you spent it. Plus, remember are aren't talking about you. We're talking about typical training. We can't assume that everyone made their own potions years ago. We can only assume that they'll make the potions NOW, or buy them. Those are the only viable options.

NP, I'm glad it helped! :

Grab a pickaxe and mine gold. Should be getting ~110k per hour.

It takes 60 seconds. ...I don't know what your concept of 'HUGE' is, but I think I have different standards. :? I find zombie monkeys a solid alternative for someone who doesn't feel like doing the quest for AZs, or doesn't like crowded worlds. Ok it takes 60 seconds. So every 5 minutes you need to go recharge at the altar, spending 60 seconds, or another minute of time. So overall, you lose 11 minutes of time over the course of an hour. That's equal to about 12k xp at ZMs. So by not bringing ppots, you get 12k xp less per hour, more if you use a familiar. So now let's see. The xp per hour of ZMs (recharging at altar) would be 98k per hour, with a loss of 20k per hour (on pure sets). Compare to that AZs, which is 100k per hour with a profit of 180k per hour. That's a 200k different between loss/profit, meaning that you "spend" 200k per hour at ZMs (since you are forfeiting potential money).

Pure set means super attack and super strength. You don't get it. It takes a HUGE amount of time to go to the altar at ZMs. It's a much better idea to simply bring ppots. You also don't spend 5gp every 10 minutes. For one thing, you forgot to take the time to gather all the parts into consideration. How long did that take? How much xp could you have gotten instead? How much money could you have made instead? Also, if you are not taking pure sets, you aren't getting the best xp. It's as much as 20k worse xp/hour if you don't use pure sets. Tbh, ZMs are not a good alternative at all. You're giving up too much potential money and real money to gain such a small advantage.

Many more people that 100k quit, remember many f2p'ers also quit.

You don't use any money so how do you lose it? unless your using super attack and/or strength pots. I have never been to AZ's but every time 1 of these topics comes up every body says it (except me) so it must be crowded so you would spend time hopping round for an empty world or fighting over them so lowering your exp per hour. I have never seen any body at zombie monkeys and I have spent well over 20 hours (6 hours a day there for a week) at the gorillas and not 1 person went down there with the intent to kill any monkeys. ... Ok look, AZs are 100k xp per hour and 180k per hour profit. ZMs are 110k xp per hour and -115k per hour. However, if you go recharge prayer at the altar, you'd get significantly less xp, but only spend 20k per hour (on pure sets) and also a small, negligible amount of teleports. So are ARE losing money. You are losing the money that you could have had if you went to AZs. It's true though, AZs are much more crowded, but I've never had to hop more than 4 times.

Zombie Monkeys are about 5k-10k better xp per hour, and you can add a little more if you throw in a combat familiar. However, AZs will profit ~180k. Whereas Zombie Monkeys will make you lose quite a lot in prayer potions. 1 potion lasts you ~6 minutes, so you'll use 10 potions, but then consider that you'll run in there with full prayer from an altar, so it's really 9 potions. Then add in the costs of pure sets (5k per pure set) or Zamorak Brews (1.5k per Zammy Brew, which is by far the better option, tbh). You'll need 4 of each. So the Ppots cost 99k, and the pure sets cost 20k, while Zammy Brews cost 6k (note Zammy Brews also restore a bit of prayer, it's +7 points for me @ 71 prayer). So the costs of Zombie Monkeys is 105k-119k, not including the familiar, which will add in another 2-6k, depending on what you use, of course. But in reality, you're giving up ~300k to gain 10k extra xp at Zombie Monkeys. That saves you 6 minutes. If you can make 300k in 6 minutes (that's an average of 3m per hour), then good for you, go to Zombie Monkeys. But if you CAN'T, then AZs are the better option. Plus they also drop charms, which I chose not to add into the calculation, but do save you a lot of time in the long run. It depends on how you do it, if you sacrafice a little exp per hour and use the alter to get prayer back then it costs nothing to do. Doing it that way is risky since if you run out of prayer trying to get past those gorrilas then your dead. Then that makes absolutely no sense. You'd get LESS xp per hour AND LESS money per hour. If you recharge prayer upstairs, you can't get the 100k/hr rate of AZs, and you certainly won't get 180k per hour. It makes it an even worse option. On your point about slayer: I can go to Laplok/Duradel, bank, and get to my next assignment in an average of 3-5 minutes. Less if it's an easy monster to get to, but never more than 6, unless I get held up by a Random or something. Plus, at the lower levels, Slayer is great xp because the Black Mask helps a lot more at lower levels than higher levels.

Zombie Monkeys are about 5k-10k better xp per hour, and you can add a little more if you throw in a combat familiar. However, AZs will profit ~180k. Whereas Zombie Monkeys will make you lose quite a lot in prayer potions. 1 potion lasts you ~6 minutes, so you'll use 10 potions, but then consider that you'll run in there with full prayer from an altar, so it's really 9 potions. Then add in the costs of pure sets (5k per pure set) or Zamorak Brews (1.5k per Zammy Brew, which is by far the better option, tbh). You'll need 4 of each. So the Ppots cost 99k, and the pure sets cost 20k, while Zammy Brews cost 6k (note Zammy Brews also restore a bit of prayer, it's +7 points for me @ 71 prayer). So the costs of Zombie Monkeys is 105k-119k, not including the familiar, which will add in another 2-6k, depending on what you use, of course. But in reality, you're giving up ~300k to gain 10k extra xp at Zombie Monkeys. That saves you 6 minutes. If you can make 300k in 6 minutes (that's an average of 3m per hour), then good for you, go to Zombie Monkeys. But if you CAN'T, then AZs are the better option. Plus they also drop charms, which I chose not to add into the calculation, but do save you a lot of time in the long run.

this or just use the highest xp pouch for each charm lol This is the highest exp pouch for each charm. You can also select which pouches you will always make and which you will never make. That's great for ignoring the expensive pouches that simply aren't worth the time and effort (like, say, Praying Mantis vs. Granite Lobster).

Something a lot of people forget is killing Ghasts. You get 30 prayer xp per kill, which isn't a whole lot. But you can kill quite a lot of them, since they are so weak. I have no idea if this is a viable method or not. I've never tried it. It's always been Gilded altar w/ d bones for me, maybe the occasional wyvern bone. However, I'd say it's worth a least a shot. You never know. Many of the "secret" training places that we all now know (such as Skeleton Monkeys, Armored Zombies, and Bandits) were the result of people thinking outside the box and exploring every dusty corner. Why not give this a try?

If Priffdinias is being opened, we better keep our eyes of the Wise Old Man too. He has his eyes set on the crystal city. He's planning to break into the city and seal some of the knowledge held in the city's "Undercity". The plot: "Local concerns" may be a coverup, that's fairly obvious. It could also mean local as in the entire world if you want to look at it relatively. And of course:

I'd like to know that as well. The grand exchange database on the Runescape Website. Some people could see them, and others couldn't. I guess I'm one of those who can't. :|

I'd like to know that as well.

Was thinking more of a:

Jagex Olympics?

It's Jagex. Making complicated rules for no other reason than to annoy and infuriate people? Well that's simply a British pastime. Try getting insurance on a car in England. Then you'll understand. Lol. Although I'm sure Jagex wants this over as much as we do, unless they find this funny :|

Thanks! :thumbsup: Many of the ideas added were provided by Archimage_a, btw. Do you need some new weapons or whatever? I'm quite interested in this and maybe I'll help you create some weapons with interesting and more original special attacks/attributes. I'm sure it'll help! : I was thinking about reconsidering the weapon lineup, actually, so they fit better with the "Divine" theme. What I mean are like weapons from mythology, etc.

We know who the desert gods are and we know bits and peices about the smaller demi-gods, but we no nothing in particular about The original desert god, Tumeken, other than how he made the other desert gods. Namely he married the water spirit Elindis and made her a god and father Ithcalirn and Amascut (the Devourer). Then went on to creat Het, Apmeken, Crondis and Scarabas. When you truely get down to it we know general stuff about all the gods, but the only ones we know a fair bit about are the ones who did not start off as gods, or we're fathered by gods. We know most about Zamorak, Elindis, Icthlarin, Amascut and Scarabas specifically as people. But we know general details about Bandos, Zaros, Saradomin, Armadyl, Het, Apmeken, Crondis, Tumeken and Guthix I'd say we know a fair bit about Guthix from WGS, Tears of Guthix, Juna, and Meeting History.

Thanks! :thumbsup: Many of the ideas added were provided by Archimage_a, btw.