Zaaps1

They dont yield a profit do they? But then it would accomplish the purpose. I'm failing to understand and failing to see if you know what I mean or not. If the xp rates for making these things are high, like hundreds of xp per bar or whatever you were thinking would make people smith these often. Making the ore itself cost alot of money and ultimately, more than the created product yes? So the ore, for example could be 50k? And a platebody would be somewhere around 180k, a 70k loss, because the xp is good. However if the xp is bad when making these things people wont intend on using these to train smithing altogether, they would when they wanted money. First of all Divine equipment was not given a high smithing xp yield in order to make lots of people smith them. They were given a high xp yield so it would make logical sense. If these items are so much stronger than rune, and require 10 levels higher to smith them, why should they be given any less xp than that of rune? The xp rates are high. But consider that the Spirit Shields are similar and people do not buy Spirit Shields and sigils to repeatably make them for smithing xp.

Exactly. And that is what Jagex is trying to do. They continuously update PvP attempting to make it better, but they always end up doing something wrong. I may sound like another anti-Jagex ranter there, but that's not Jagex's fault for messing up their updates. They can't help it. When they try to please everyone, it's inevitable that they will mess up. So what needs to happen is Jagex understand what we DO need and what we DON'T need. Part of doing so will be making people unhappy, but it's necessary for a real fix to be achieved.

If you get the same,RWT. If less,thats less reward for an already high risk. But that's exactly the point. In the old wilderness, very few people actually profited from pking. Why should that be the case now? As I said, you need to get as close to the past as you can. Making a system where everyone wins is not the answer. Trying to please everyone is not the answer. Some people will lose a lot of money pking. That's something you can't change without breaking the system.

the other one is all about that too. why do you think he started it? because all of the stuff he listed was bought out or dumped. I know. Just saying though. The underlying reasons are probably no different from those mentioned in the other thread.

Thanks for all the posts! I am not attacking Jagex, I'm merely pointing out a fatal flaw they have repeatably demonstrated. There are many examples of Jagex's arrogance, and there are many consequences of it. It is a problem that they need to solve. While ADMITTING failure doesn't necessarily need to happen (as in a newspost formally apologizing), ACKNOWLEDGMENT does need to happen. Jagex needs to understand that the path they are treading right now will lead them to nowhere. They need to acknowledge this fact. The sooner they do, the sooner they can dig themselves out. When I said to completely thrash everything in the works, I did not mean to destroy it and never use it again. Far from it. I simply mean that Jagex needs to clear its mind and take a really good look. Jagex needs to understand that the simplest and most elegant solution is. Once they understand that, then they can add whatever they need to (but I stress NEED, the bare minimum is all that is necessary), and many of these may in fact be concepts they've used in the past two years (EP for example, has a very viable future, but not in its current form). It's true that it hasn't 100% failed yet, but it's on its way. Less and less people are happy with all of these PvP updates. Frankly, I'm tired of them. Jagex dug its own grave when they strayed from their real goal. The only way they can solve this problem is by going back to that bare basic goal and working from that, and only that.

How'd you do the music hack btw? I wanna try :

Thanks! Got all 602 songs unlocked! :thumbsup:

What Penguin Hunter area? And I did the quest, I still don't have it.

Where, EXACTLY, do you obtain the songs "Ice Day for Penguins" and "The Fair Side". I've been all over the northern hunter area (one with the kyatts) and I didn't get the song. I've also entered and gone a little into the Rouge Den Maze minigame and I didn't get the song.

Most of the problems people mention in this chat will most likely be caused by merch clans.

I am here to talk about PvP updates. We all know the story, so I will not be mentioning the exact details of all of Jagex's updates to PvP. I assume you know them all ready. If you do not, there are many more threads for you to read up about it. Let's all take a moment and remember the "old" wild. It was back when the rules were clear and simple: Kill whoever you want, and don't get killed. Any white dot on the map could've meant your death, and any timid players were afraid even to transverse a small portion of the wilderness. There we no safespots in the wild. Every since square inch was fair game. Of course, this wilderness had its faults. Like today, there were the Pjers and one-itemers. And of course, the root of all evil: RWT'ers. But why didn't we see many complaints back then? Surely, Jagex's PvP updates cause an uproar, but just what is it about the old wild that made it so loved? The answer is easy: simplicity. There were very few rules. It was quite clear in the old wild: attack and kill whoever you choose, and try to survive whoever did so to yourself. And let's not forget a critical fact. In the old wilderness, the players were molded by the system. Jagex set rules into stone, and the players developed around those rules. We all know what the wilderness is like now. What Jagex is trying to do is base the game around the mold the players have established, while still trying to maintain the old wilderness style. Given their new agenda, this is impossible, and Jagex is simply chasing perfection. If any of you know me well, you will know I am not a big critic of Jagex. I do my best to understand their updates and to support their actions, since, generally speaking, I believe they know what they are doing and they know how to run their game. But the scale of PvP updates we've gotten in the past 2 years is ridiculous. This wild train has gone on for too long. We are all sick of hearing of a new PvP patch every other week, whether it is small or big. We all just want this to be over with, and we all want Jagex to fix this. How? That is the purpose of me writing this. But what has Jagex done, exactly? It all begins with one change: Get rid of RWT. This lead to a plethora of problems. In the end, Jagex solved it by introducing Bounty Hunter. But Bounty Hunter was such a crude fix. In order to combat PvP, a whole network of advanced rules were added, such as carried wealth, bounty targets, bounty rouges, death pile timers, and so on. In addition, Jagex made the mistake of grouping all players into just 3 combat level groups. The next model was a bit better. There were no "bounty targets" of any sort. This new model was PvP worlds. With it, however, came another problem: the EP system. Now, anyone could gain better drops not by hunting tougher targets, but standing around mindlessly for longer. Soon, Bounty Worlds were released to add a greater "old wild" feel. However, the bounty hunter system was reinstated. Finally, let's not forget the last two patches: Removal of Protect item and +1 item worlds. What damage have all of these updates caused? What has caused such damage? Let me point to one problem: arrogance. No, not of the players, of Jagex. Jagex is arrogant and does not like to admit the failure of an update. Jagex does not like to see their work be left useless, even if it is a complete failure. What do we have as a result? A huge eyesore of a wilderness crater, for one. Jagex could have trashed that area completely and returned "old wild" structures, but Jagex is arrogant and does not want to admit failure. So when BH was shut down, Jagex did not apologize for taking up a huge chunk of wilderness but instead gave us a vague message that it will be put to use. What is the use? A few monsters? Is that what 20% of the wilderness is? Just an empty volcano filled with monsters no one wants to hunt? And the bigger question: Why is it still there? Why could Jagex not simply dispose of the BH crater? Everyone can agree that it was not necessary to add all those monsters. They were all fine before. Jagex states that it'll help make other locations less crowded, but on that end, the update failed to do its job. The volcano isn't even a viable place to kill those monsters since there are too few and too far apart. If Jagex is to really solve this problem, they must first rid themselves of their arrogance. What else did Jagex do to PvP? They did not want to keep it simple and try to replace the old wild as much as they could. No. They decided to add all of this useless fluff to the PvP system. The entire Bounty idea was pointless. There's little need to disable protect item, either, and therefore there was no reason for +1 item worlds. Jagex says that they removed protect item partly to cripple Pjers and 1 itemers. YES THEY ARE ANNOYING, but we don't need Jagex to make such a SWEEPING update to the ENTIRE PvP system to "solve" that problem. And what's more the VERY NEXT DAY, they release new BH worlds that they should've named "Heaven for 1-Itemers". It's a PJer's Playground. We don't need all of this, Jagex. You are trying to please everyone, and by doing so, are you pleasing no one. No one can say they are happy with all of your PvP updates. By trying to please everyone, you simply walk down a path to nowhere. Let me offer an inconvenient truth: No matter how hard you try, you cannot make everyone happy. I expect a company like Jagex to understand this. No, we don't need any of this "compensation" for the loss of old pking. We don't need any "better rewards". What do we need? A simple system that does its absolute best to mirror the old wild, but fancy rules and fluffy updates kept to a bare minimum. But where do these answers lie? It's simple: in the past. So what am I saying? Here's exactly what I want Jagex to do. First, Jagex, you must discard of your arrogance. Your PvP updates in the past 2 years have given an alternative to the old wild, but let's be honest, you have failed in your goal to preserve it. FAILED. There are too many rules and extra features. Admit you failed, since that is the first step. Next, clear the entire drawing board. EVERY SINGLE LAST SCRAP. All of these PvP ideas you have come up with in the last 2 years cannot remain in your mind if you are to find a real fix. Remove of all of these ideas. Thank you for your time in developing it, but needless to say, it's better you forget about them while working on the real fix. Third, acknowledge that you can't please everyone. Find the inevitables and admit they are there. Yes, there will always be PJers. Sorry, but you can't fix that. Yes, there will always be people who complain about losing their items. Sorry, but you can't fix that. Acknowledge that there are some things you simply can't fix, and accept that there will be people unhappy with that fact. Unfortunately, they will have to deal with it. Caving into the demands of these groups will only make matters worse, as demonstrated in the most recent PvP patch. Fourth, revisit the past. What made the old wilderness system so successful? Why did the people who got rich pking get rich pking? Fifth, remember your job. Your job is to remake the old wilderness as best as you can. Your job is NOT to compensate us for the loss of the old wilderness with fancy rewards or a new, "exciting" system. Stick to the script, and minimize your changes. The last thing you want to add into the game is another Bounty Hunter system. Exactly what type of changes am I talking about? here are some examples. In the old wild, did those who stood around doing nothing get the best kills? Of course not. Who did? Those who risked the most, fought the most, and had the best pking skills and stats did. That being said, EP as it is now should not be one of the criteria for getting better drops. What should be? How about total kills, total deaths, total damage dealt, etc.? And ask yourself another question: Should players be TOLD their drop potential? Of course not! That only invites the system of 26k'ing. But don't misunderstand me. There are some good aspects of your PvP updates that should definitely be kept, at least in some form. The EP idea was good, but its execution was terrible. For example, gaining EP by just standing around was a horrid idea, and disclosing players' EP was an even worse one. Rework everything to make it was close to the old wild as possible. Did old wild pkers know exactly how much they would get from an opponent? Of course not. So why should modern pkers? And of course, there must be more complex rules than the old wild. But let's keep those to a minimum? And certainly, let's not introduce any new concepts. Once again, just do your best to replace the old wild. We don't need anything more than that. This, is my view on the way Jagex should've approached this from the beginning. And as these days turn into weeks, then months, then years, Jagex has drifted further away from their goal. They will never solve this problem this way. Let's all take a moment and imagine what we have all sacrificed because of the PvP updates. How many less quests have we gotten? How many smaller updates have we gotten? How many less skills and actually WORTHFUL updates have we gotten? And even in-game, how has our entire gameplay experience changed? Has Jagex's endless loop of PvP updates caused this? Why has Jagex continued to make these neverending PvP updates? Has Jagex fallen into infinity, forever stuck chasing perfection? Or can they solve this yet by clearing their mind and looking into what really matters, and what we all really want?

Ok then. Then what will you do about all the FoG coifs? Everything can be abused. What's your point. I'm sure whatever system you, or anyone else, can possibly come up with will have holes, however small, that allow some form of abuse. It's inescapable. Plus it wasn't that big of a deal. And nothing's stopping RWT'ers from repeatably dying in rune. Or buying bandos or godswords and dying.

It is supposed to be Mew?

I like the idea, but remember that success of this would depend almost entirely on popularity.

Yeah I understand that. Is it really that high? I usually get no more than 70k average, but I get a lot of tasks like mithril dragons.

Too much. You'll probably want to read up on all Knowledge Base articles on PvP.

QFT I average about 80k/hr doing slayer anyway. 80k/hr on slayer? Er, how? Is that an average over all of your tasks?

I believe so, but why not just take Summer pies? They double as food as well.

Not half as bad as I thought they'd be, actually.

Mine isn't a dictionary word in ANY language :lol:

It is every 4 hours. In f2p, I averaged 1.5-1.6k fish/hour, and I made my own fires (loss of 2 invent spaces). At Rouges Den, you should at least get 1.6k.

And bots.

None of them stack. Sadly, you'll have to trust me, since I have no proof other than "I've tried and it doesn't work".

Castlewars and duel arena are others.