9/11 Evidence?

Viktorkrum77 · March 13, 2007

What yould your explanation for WTC7's pre-determined fate be then?

The photos and videos shown of WTC7 are those of the northern side, which was furthest away from the Twin Towers. This side looks like it expresses no signs of extensive damage. But another picture not shown on conspiracy websites of the west side of the building shows an 18 story gash in the lower southwestern corner, and this caused a huge fire to erupt. The fire engulfed pretty much every floor, or at least damaged many crucial ones. Later on that day the fire chief looked at the building and had a feeling it was going down, he told his men he wanted them out of the building, and so the fires raged unfought. Larry Silverstein then gave the command to "pull" the building, a term meaning to bring other surrounding buildings away to minimize damage, it does not mean to detonate.

Conspiracy websites show the video as a few seconds shorter than the full version. Why? Because they don't want to admit to the footage taken of the eastern mechanical penthouse falling into the building, bringing down the western mechanical penthouse, and then the whole building.

Also, any puffs seen in any of the buildings, like in WTC7, are nothing more than large objects like elevator equipment and such falling causing rubble and dust to shoot out broken windows.

My directions on the sides may be slightly off, but you get the point.

Mercifull · March 13, 2007

1. Why did the Twin Towers fall when no other tower in history when hit by a plane or fire collasped? And not only that, why did they fall within 1 hour instead of several hours later?

How many towers of that size have ever been hit by a plane of that size? I can count two... WTC1 and WTC2.

2. WTC 7 was NEVER hit by anything, no planes, no bombs, no fire. Why did it just magicially collaspe when it was not the intentions of terriosts to attack the building?

Viktor explained it nicely

magekillr · March 13, 2007

lol...there is no conspiracy

1.) it's true that lots of people used words like "explosion" and "bomb" to describe what they heard, but none of that proves actual explosives were used. You can hear an "explosion" without a bomb being required, and saying something was "like a bomb" doesn't mean it was one...gun explosions sounds like explosions...doesn't make it a bomb

2.) Many readings in newspaper quotes are not nearly the exact thing that is originally said. Newspapers edit what the people say for their favor. You ever been in the newspaper? i have...i gave them comments, read the paper the next day and went "That's not what i said AT ALL". they edit it man

3.) There were numerous accounts of people claiming "i was running down the stair well, heard one explosion, then a few floors down i heard another"

-a.) This particular woman i am referring to was on the 74th floor at the sound of the second explosion, yet she somehow made it out. Controlled explosions do not have a 30 minute delay before bringing down the structure.

-b.) all they have is...sounded like a bomb...that's it

4.) it has been suggested that there was smoke that people could see outside the towers. There were no accounts of seeing this smoke INSIDE the towers...why not? There were people who survived in the stairwells and lower levels, and weÃÆÃÂ¢ÃÂ¢Ã¢â¬Å¡ÃÂ¬ÃÂ¢Ã¢â¬Å¾ÃÂ¢ve yet to see any of them talk about explosions or smoke from below as the buildings collapsed. And if the buildings were weakened at the basement levels, why did the very lower stories remain standing?

No, air and debris can be seen pushing violently outward, which is a natural and predictable effect of rapid structural collapse.

The reason why the buildings collapsed downwards was due to the fact that the buildings were actually designed to take an airplane hit. However, the impact of the airplane damaged the central structure of the building as well as stripping away some of the insulation protecting the steel columns.

If you notice, the south tower fell first, even though it was hit last. If you look, the south tower was hit much lower than the north tower. This is evidence that the collapse was due to the steel structure weakening because of fire.

When you heat steel, the yield strength drops. With burning jet fuel around a steel column, the design limit and even the safety factor built into the beam is totally meaningless. The column will buckle and the building will collapse.

Now, the fact that the south tower fell first is proof that the impact of the plane wasnÃÆÃÂ¢ÃÂ¢Ã¢â¬Å¡ÃÂ¬ÃÂ¢Ã¢â¬Å¾ÃÂ¢t the reason it collapsed (south tower was hit last and fell first). If you look at the impact points, the south tower was hit much lower than the north tower. This means that there was more load on the columns that supported the damaged section of the south tower than the north tower (more floors above it).

Now, regardless if there is insulation or no insulation on a column, the fact of the matter is, according the laws of heat transfer, you will still get some heating of the steel inside even insulated columns (there is no such thing as a perfect insulation). When you heat steel, its yield point drops. Even though buildings are designed with a safety factor (general between 2 and 4, but 4 is usually reserved for bridges) the fact that the columns were being heated to undersigned levels and the fact that the airplane's impact had physically taken out some of the support columns justifies the fact that it was fire that caused the collapse.

Now, because fire caused the collapse, you would expect the columns to buckle and then give way. Since there is NO more horizontal load on the building (the building already absorbed the airplane's horizontal impact energy and dissipated it through vibrations) the only load left is a vertical load. This is the reason why the buildings fell perfectly straight down.

However, even though fire was the cause of failure of the columns of the floors that were hit, it doesnÃÆÃÂ¢ÃÂ¢Ã¢â¬Å¡ÃÂ¬ÃÂ¢Ã¢â¬Å¾ÃÂ¢t explain why the building collapsed the way it did (i.e., straight down!).

The reason for the building's demolition style collapse is due to simple physics. An object in motion tends to stay in motion; an object at rest tends to stay at rest. In this case, since the building has just begun to collapse, we can consider the building as 2 separate masses, first, the mass still stuck the ground, second the mass that is now falling.

If you perform a simple experiment, you stand on a scale and measure your weight. Now, jump as high as you can and land the same scale, what is the reading on it now? Due to the fact that you jumped into the air and landed on the scale, you have now exerted an effective force much greater (for your jump, the scale will read roughly around 3 times your regular weight) than if you just stood on it. This is the reason the building collapsed the way it did.

The large mass landing on top of the remaining building has a lot of momentum (lots of speed, think you tripled your weight by jumping at best, 1 meter up, you measure your height by your center of gravity, not how high your feet are off the ground. The building has fallen at least 2 stories (6-7meters) by now) and this momentum is translated to a force on the building. According to NewtonÃÆÃÂ¢ÃÂ¢Ã¢â¬Å¡ÃÂ¬ÃÂ¢Ã¢â¬Å¾ÃÂ¢s laws, the section of the building is still standing must exert a force against the falling section of the building (an impulse). However, the building's design was probably only a 2 to 4 safety factor (2 or 4 times is regular weight) but with the falling section of the building moving so fast, will overcome even the undamaged safety factor of the original building, thus the building collapses downwards. There is no horizontal forces on the building, hence, no horizontal acceleration (force = mass x acceleration), thus thereÃÆÃÂ¢ÃÂ¢Ã¢â¬Å¡ÃÂ¬ÃÂ¢Ã¢â¬Å¾ÃÂ¢s no way it can fall horizontally! This is simple physics.

Japlin Chev · March 13, 2007

Ok, you think that is freaky, I'll post something that got sent in an email to me, it makes you think..

Japlin Chev · March 13, 2007

WEIRD 9/11 FACTS

1) New York City has 11 letters

2) Afghanistan has 11 letters.

3) Ramsin Yuseb (The terrorist who threatened to destroy the Twin Towers in 1993) has 11 letters.

4) George W Bush has 11 letters.

5) The two twin towers make an "11"

This could be a mere coincidence, but this gets more interesting:

1) New York is the 11th state.

2) The first plane crashing against the Twin Towers was flight number 11.

3) Flight 11 was carrying 92 passengers. 9 + 2 = 11

4) Flight 77 which also hit Twin Towers, was carrying 65 passengers. 6+5 = 11

5) The tragedy was on September 11, or 9/11 as it is now known. 9 + 1+ 1 = 11

6) The date is equal to the US emergency services telephone number 911.

9 + 1 + 1 = 11.

Sheer coincidence..?! Read on and make up your own mind:

1) The total number of victims inside all the hi-jacked planes was 254. >2 + 5 + 4 = 11.

2) September 11 is day number 254 of the calendar year.

Again 2 + 5 + 4 = 11.

3) The Madrid bombing took place on 3/11/2004. 3 + 1 + 1 + 2 + 4 = 11.

4) The tragedy of Madrid happened 911 days after the Twin Towers

incident.

Sheer coincidence..?! Read on and make up your own mind:

Now this is where things get totally eerie:

The most recognised symbol for the US, after the Stars & Stripes, is the Eagle. The following verse is taken from the Quran, the Islamic

holy book:

"For it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a fearsome Eagle. The wrath of the Eagle would be felt throughout the lands of Allah and lo, while some of the people trembled in despair still more rejoiced: for the wrath of the Eagle cleansed the lands of Allah and there was peace."

That verse is number 9.11 of the Quran.

Still uncovinced about all of this..?! Try this and see how you feel afterwards, it made my hair stand on end:

Open Microsoft Word and do the following(TRY THIS FOR REAL)

1. Type in capitals Q33 NY. This is the flight number of the first plane to hit one of the Twin Towers.

2. Highlight the Q33 NY

3. Change the font size to 48.

4. Change the actual font to the WINGDINGS 1

scary huh??

Sorry its such a long post... :ohnoes:

Viktorkrum77 · March 13, 2007

1. Why did the Twin Towers fall when no other tower in history when hit by a plane or fire collapsed? And not only that, why did they fall within 1 hour instead of several hours later?

First off, we have both those scenarios in one scenario. And then we have several other factors:

-We have two planes that took out about 9 floors of each building. The WTC's were built to be supported by there exterior columns aka the faÃÆÃâÃâÃÂ§ade of the building, this way they could practically eliminate all supporting columns that would disrupt office space, excluding the core.

-The plane blew off a very large majority of the fire proofing, knocked out core and exterior columns. And destroyed all the sprinkler systems in the impact zone and above.

-Jet fuel ignited into huge fires that were ragging infernos not under any control.

-These fires did not melt the steel trusses that pull the weight from the exterior columns to the core. They simply softened them. Softening the steel caused disruption in core columns and then eventually the columns buckled. The rest is just gravity and kinetic energy. The exterior faÃÆÃâÃâÃÂ§ade columns fell out since they were no longer held to the steel trusses, and the trusses aka the floors and the core fell in a pancake effect. In fact, 30 stories of the core remained after the North Tower collapsed, but later fell from the immense pressure it had suffered.

And even though there were no buildings before that that had ever collapsed due to fire, there was a 30 or so story building in Madrid, Spain that partly collapsed in 2005 due to arson fire. The reason it didn't was because it used a different construction method, it was made of concrete, it was supported by concrete columns, and so the fire did little damage. But the fire, which burnt a little under the same degree as the WTC one did, did indeed soften steel trusses in the building, which was discovered after it partly collapsed, as the steel was deformed and sagging over the concrete columns.

Oh, and it takes around half a year to gut and and prepare a building for control demolition. And that's a 30 story one, the WTC's would take roughly around the same time with little gutting. During the time a building is being prepared for controlled demolition, columns have to be removed, and during this time it would've been impossible for the two buildings to stay standing with 20,000 people coming and going and occupying them each daily. And then on top of that, we have elevators going up and down constantly, and plumbing as well. And then to hide all the evidence of explosives and cut beams on top of this from the tenants would be impossible. It would be impossible to predict the planes effect on the building, and to plan explosives in advance. Also, the so called explosives which are just dust puffs, aren't even strategically planned. You would not need explosives past the point the buildings began to collapse because kinetic energy and gravity takes care of the rest. These dust puffs do continue after the building collapsed. The theory is just bogus, and a laugh to those in the controlled demolition business. Thermite is also impossible because no such thermite technology exits that could cut beams the way they propose and have the building still standing able to deal with day to day activities and stress.

Didn't notice magekillr had beat me to it. His explanation explains the physics side, it's very well done. :)

The_Dragon_Reborn · March 13, 2007

Footiegod, stop creeping me out. Thats weird man. So weird. I feel paranoid. Is there someone beind me? *Jerks around in chair.*

Japlin Chev · March 13, 2007

Sorry I didn't mean to freak people out too much lol

But it is kinda weird and true though, especially the Windings thingy

Defender2516 · March 13, 2007

WEIRD 9/11 FACTS

1) New York City has 11 letters

2) Afghanistan has 11 letters.

3) Ramsin Yuseb (The terrorist who threatened to destroy the Twin Towers in 1993) has 11 letters.

4) George W Bush has 11 letters.

5) The two twin towers make an "11"

This could be a mere coincidence, but this gets more interesting:

1) New York is the 11th state.

2) The first plane crashing against the Twin Towers was flight number 11.

3) Flight 11 was carrying 92 passengers. 9 + 2 = 11

4) Flight 77 which also hit Twin Towers, was carrying 65 passengers. 6+5 = 11

5) The tragedy was on September 11, or 9/11 as it is now known. 9 + 1+ 1 = 11

6) The date is equal to the US emergency services telephone number 911.

9 + 1 + 1 = 11.

Sheer coincidence..?! Read on and make up your own mind:

1) The total number of victims inside all the hi-jacked planes was 254. >2 + 5 + 4 = 11.

2) September 11 is day number 254 of the calendar year.

Again 2 + 5 + 4 = 11.

3) The Madrid bombing took place on 3/11/2004. 3 + 1 + 1 + 2 + 4 = 11.

4) The tragedy of Madrid happened 911 days after the Twin Towers

incident.

Sheer coincidence..?! Read on and make up your own mind:

Now this is where things get totally eerie:

The most recognised symbol for the US, after the Stars & Stripes, is the Eagle. The following verse is taken from the Quran, the Islamic

holy book:

"For it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a fearsome Eagle. The wrath of the Eagle would be felt throughout the lands of Allah and lo, while some of the people trembled in despair still more rejoiced: for the wrath of the Eagle cleansed the lands of Allah and there was peace."

That verse is number 9.11 of the Quran.

Still uncovinced about all of this..?! Try this and see how you feel afterwards, it made my hair stand on end:

Open Microsoft Word and do the following(TRY THIS FOR REAL)

1. Type in capitals Q33 NY. This is the flight number of the first plane to hit one of the Twin Towers.

2. Highlight the Q33 NY

3. Change the font size to 48.

4. Change the actual font to the WINGDINGS 1

scary huh??

Sorry its such a long post... :ohnoes:

Wow thats kewl, looks like 11 is evil numba, lol.

~Defender~

Mercifull · March 13, 2007

There's also 11 letters in coincidence and horse sh**e

The line about the eagle in the koran is a lie as is the Q33 NY trick. If you searched google you'd know. But alas these conspiracy nuts arnt the sharpest of people.

Flametrooper · March 13, 2007

ZOMFG ELEVNS AN EVL NUMBR!!11!!11!!!!!1 AND SOS 666 AND 12 AND 3s A MAGIK NUMBER AND ZONFGROFL T3H PHR33MASONS R TAKIN OVER!!!!!1!11111!!!!! WESA ALL GUNA DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111111!!!!!!!111111111!!111111111!!!!111111111111!!

.....yeah. ferk consipracy theory. :roll:

Tigra00 · March 13, 2007

I heard changing Q33 NY to wingdings in MSword makes it read "Bush did it!"

True story...

...Maybe.

magekillr · March 13, 2007

you know what's funny? engineers who understand the principles behind all of this all say that there is no conspiracy whatsoever...

yet one leader among the conspiracy theorists is a fail out of photo and media school...

irony? lol

and i hope anyone who thinks there is a conspiracy takes the time to read my argument...it's gonna make you want to do this :wall: when you have nothing to say but call me a liar

and did you know that 9+11 is 20...the possible age of Matt who is secretly saying there's no conspiracy to get a paycheck...Matt is the leader behind 9/11...KILL HIM!!

Defender2516 · March 13, 2007

Ahh very nicely done guys, so its official BS once again! woo.

~Defender~

indy500fan · March 13, 2007

[hide]

WEIRD 9/11 FACTS

1) New York City has 11 letters

2) Afghanistan has 11 letters.

3) Ramsin Yuseb (The terrorist who threatened to destroy the Twin Towers in 1993) has 11 letters.

4) George W Bush has 11 letters.

5) The two twin towers make an "11"

This could be a mere coincidence, but this gets more interesting:

1) New York is the 11th state.

2) The first plane crashing against the Twin Towers was flight number 11.

3) Flight 11 was carrying 92 passengers. 9 + 2 = 11

4) Flight 77 which also hit Twin Towers, was carrying 65 passengers. 6+5 = 11

5) The tragedy was on September 11, or 9/11 as it is now known. 9 + 1+ 1 = 11

6) The date is equal to the US emergency services telephone number 911.

9 + 1 + 1 = 11.

Sheer coincidence..?! Read on and make up your own mind:

1) The total number of victims inside all the hi-jacked planes was 254. >2 + 5 + 4 = 11.

2) September 11 is day number 254 of the calendar year.

Again 2 + 5 + 4 = 11.

3) The Madrid bombing took place on 3/11/2004. 3 + 1 + 1 + 2 + 4 = 11.

4) The tragedy of Madrid happened 911 days after the Twin Towers

incident.

Sheer coincidence..?! Read on and make up your own mind:

Now this is where things get totally eerie:

The most recognised symbol for the US, after the Stars & Stripes, is the Eagle. The following verse is taken from the Quran, the Islamic

holy book:

"For it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a fearsome Eagle. The wrath of the Eagle would be felt throughout the lands of Allah and lo, while some of the people trembled in despair still more rejoiced: for the wrath of the Eagle cleansed the lands of Allah and there was peace."

That verse is number 9.11 of the Quran.

Still uncovinced about all of this..?! Try this and see how you feel afterwards, it made my hair stand on end:

Open Microsoft Word and do the following(TRY THIS FOR REAL)

1. Type in capitals Q33 NY. This is the flight number of the first plane to hit one of the Twin Towers.

2. Highlight the Q33 NY

3. Change the font size to 48.

4. Change the actual font to the WINGDINGS 1

scary huh??

Sorry its such a long post... :ohnoes:

[/hide]

biggy08755 · March 14, 2007

Thomas Jefferson our second president? =\

beltran22 · March 14, 2007

I'm very skeptical, as its good to be in this day and age..

However this is *very* interesting, i find it a bit hard to believe but ya never know..

What do you guys think about the MLK conspiracy? (pm me if you dont know what im on about)

Viktorkrum77 · March 14, 2007

What do you guys think about the MLK conspiracy? (pm me if you dont know what im on about)

Somebody trying to make a quick buck.

Celt23 · March 14, 2007

Osama bin Ladin was almost certainly one of the key players in it, and he is not as dumb as 'your average Joe terrorist'.

Flametrooper · March 14, 2007

^ You believe in a conspiracy of squirrels from outer space trying to take over the world, right?

monkeypie10 · March 14, 2007

Isn't it possible to test the metal for explosives? Or do I watch 24 too much?

Errdoth · March 14, 2007

Wow, I'm surprised pault isn't here, he was the one that brought most of this consipracy stuff here.

Sorry that's off-topic.

On the topic of the weird number eleven thing (I don't want to quote that long post, but.

This absurd email forward combines three earlier hoaxes that have been circulating in one form or another for several years.

The message first draws attention to the high number of "elevens" that can be derived from names or elements pertaining to the September 2001 attacks on the United States. It then discusses a verse supposedly taken from the Quran that seems to predict The US involvement in Iraq. Finally, it claims that the flight number of one of the 9/11 planes shows a pictorial representation of the attack on the Twin Towers when converted to the "Wingdings" font in Microsoft Word. As discussed below, all three of these claims are unfounded.

The continued recurrence of the number eleven in relation to 9/11 may seem to have some weird relevance at first glance. However, it is easy to manipulate the details of an event so that an apparent numerical pattern emerges. There are many other 9/11 elements that have no relation to the number 11. For example, "World Trade Center", "Twin Towers", "Osama Bin Laden", "American Airlines," "United Airlines" and a great many other 9/11 related items do not add up to the number eleven. In fact, hundreds of items could be legitimately included on such a list, the majority of which have no "eleven" connection. In other words, the person who created this "elevens" list carefully chose only those 9/11 related items that fit the pattern and discarded all others.

Furthermore, the hoaxster is apparently quite willing to bend the truth to fit the story. Flight 77 was carrying 64 people not 65 as claimed in the email. The message also claims that Flight 77 hit the Twin Towers. However, Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon, not the World Trade Center.

In addition, the email states that the "total number of victims inside all the hi-jacked planes was 254". However, this is untrue. Various reliable sources concur that the total number of people on the hijacked planes was 265 (see Data Table below). If you subtract the 19 hijackers, the total number of victims on the planes (passengers and crew) was 246 not 254. Neither 265 nor 246 add up to eleven.

Thus, claims of some supernatural association between the terrorist attacks and the number 11 are blatantly contrived and highly misleading.

The second part of the message claims that Chapter 9 Verse 11 (9.11) of the Islamic holy book the Quran contains a startling prophecy presumably related to the US invasion of Iraq. However, research indicates that the quoted verse does not appear in the Quran at all. Chapter 9 Verse 11 of the Quran is concerned with repentance and charity. Abdullah Yusuf Ali's translation Of The Holy Qur'an, records Verse 11 as:

But (even so), if they repent, establish regular prayers, and practise regular charity,- they are your brethren in Faith: (thus) do We explain the Signs in detail, for those who understand.

Other translations may differ slightly in wording but carry essentially the same message. None make mention of the "wrath of the Eagle" or any other elements contained in the "verse" quoted in the message.

The Quran "verse" has also circulated as a separate message with the following description:

This is something to think about! Since America is typically represented by an eagle. Saddam should have read up on his Muslim passages...

The final part of this hoax email claims that changing "Q33 NY" to the Wingdings symbol font in Microsoft Word will reveal a hidden message directly related to the 9/11 attack on the twin towers. Q33 NY rendered in Wingdings is:

Certainly, this combination of symbols is likely to make even the most cynical readers do a double take when they first observe it. However, a minimal amount of research reveals that the Wingdings claim is based on an outrageous lie and therefore has no validity what so ever. None of the planes involved in the 9/11 attacks had the flight number "Q33 NY". The flight numbers of the planes that crashed into the Twin Towers were in fact "11" and "175". Clearly, someone has simply made up this supposed flight number in an attempt to make the spurious claim seem valid. In an absurd twist, the current version of the hoax actually contradicts itself. One part of the message states, "The first plane crashing against the Twin Towers was flight number 11." Later in the same message it states "Type in capitals Q33 NY. This is the flight number of the first plane to hit one of the Twin Towers."

Some have claimed that "Q33 NY" was actually the tail or registration number of one of the planes. However, this is also untrue. The actual tail number of Flight 11 was "N334AA". Nor did any of the other hijacked aircraft have the registration number "Q33 NY" (see Data Table below). Searches of the Federal Aviation Administration website afforded no results for "Q33 NY". In fact, most civil aircraft registrations in the United States start with the letter "N" and nationality and registration markings are commonly referred to as "N-Numbers".

Flight and tail numbers aside, the Star of David in the Wingdings "message" has little relevance to 9/11 since the attacks were not perpetrated by or directed at those of Jewish faith. This hoax actually builds on a foolish conspiracy theory involving Wingdings that goes back as far as 1992. Typing "NYC" ("New York City") in Wingdings reveals a skull and crossbones symbol, the Star of David, and a thumbs up symbol. This has been interpreted by some conspiracy-theorists as a deliberate anti-Semitic message. Microsoft has denied that this arrangement of symbols is anything more than an unfortunate coincidence.

In short, this email message is a load of baloney and it should not be forwarded. Hoaxes that perpetrate falsehoods about real terrorist attacks are especially heinous. One wonders at the mentality, and motives, of the imbeciles who create hoaxes of this nature. This hoax message dishonours the memory of those who lost their lives in the 9/11 attacks

Please, look at this site.

magekillr · March 14, 2007

Isn't it possible to test the metal for explosives? Or do I watch 24 too much?

any demolition expert knows that sparks go up and down a building before hand AND it falls almost immediately after it goes off

Celt23 · March 14, 2007

^ You believe in a conspiracy of squirrels from outer space trying to take over the world, right?

Huh?

Viktorkrum77 · March 15, 2007

Here's some WTC7 pictures not shown on conspiracy websites. The 3 penthouse ones are part of a video that conspiracy theorists cut short to not show the penthouses collapse.

The side you do not see on conspiracy websites:

The Eastern Penthouse begins to fall:

It pulls the Western one and collapses inward:

The Western penthouse begins to collapse:

The 18 story gash, responsible for many fires, as well as structural damage:

9/11 Evidence?

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